Decided to create a new thread as it was being talked about in the Rudy thread...



SMH... I mean... if they want to just tank to the bottom and go for broke again I guess. Better hope you hit some home runs in the draft. We already had two home runs on the team and we're just trading them away for chips at the table in future years.

If they get anything less than Quentin Grimes, Mitchell Robinson, Emmanuel Quickley, and maybe Obi Toppin along with a slew of first round picks (article mentioned 8 being talked about), I would be disappointed. Looks like Robinson just signed a 4 year, $60m deal with them which would actually make the deal work, money wise.

At that point the Jazz roster would look like this:

Mike Conley
Bojan Bogdonovic
Malik Beasley
Jordan Clarkson
Patrick Beverley
Rudy Gay
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
Jarred Vanderbilt
Walker Kessler
Leandro Bolmaro
Udoka Azubuike
Jared Butler
Quentin Grimes
Mitchell Robinson
Emmanuel Quickley
Obi Toppin

PG: Conley / Beverly / Butler
SG: Clarkson / Beasley / Quickley / Grimes / Alexander-Walker / Bolmaro
SF: Bogdonavic / Gay
PF: Vanderbilt / Toppin
C: Robinson / Azubuike / Kessler

Got some strength at the wings, but unknowns down low now. I'm guessing if the deal is made there would be another deal coming that would even out the roster a little bit.

Honestly, the Knicks don't have that much to offer, player-wise. RJ Barrett is over-rated, Julius Randle is a cancer. I'd consider Evan Fournier in place of Robinson, but Robinson is younger with more upside and great analytics numbers. The one positive of making a deal with the Knicks is that they are a garbage franchise with rotting management. It's likely that any picks we get from them will be gold. The question will be, will we be able to capitalize on all these first round picks? If we get another 8 from NYK, we'll surely have to package some together to move up in the draft or bring in different pieces. You can only draft and keep so many rookies each year.

Knicks I find interesting are Toppin, Quickly, and Reddish. All were top-ten picks of the past few years.

Jazz would need to take some veterans to make the salaries work. I'd take whoever I thought I could flip or whoever had the shortest contract.

I don't love Robinson. Too much of an old-school center. I'd rather have Queta

Don't like this at all. Getting rid of young all stars for hope and change is stupid and is a huge risk.

With that said, Ainge does have a good track record of drafting well. Smart, Tatum and Brown were all great picks that helped put them in the Finals last year. I would trust this regime to be better talent evaluators than previous regimes who really dropped the ball time after time.

Burn. It. Down. This last year's Jazz team was one of the least fun in franchise history. Then, the top of the west all got better and the Jazz were fully capped out and had few assets prior to the Rudy trade.

Jazz would need 2 more All Stars and keep Donovan to even consider contending. Conley isn't it and also isn't worth much on the trade market. There is no realistic path forward to contention.

Burn it down, get a mountain of Knicks picks and build for the future. History would suggest that owning half the Knicks and Wolves picks for the next decade will be pretty valuable. Plus, there is a double draft coming up before too long once the NBA allows high schoolers to be draftable again.

I found this tweet chain very interesting. If accurate you get rid of him for a mountain of assets.

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑

July 14th, 2022, 8:42 pm

Burn. It. Down. This last year's Jazz team was one of the least fun in franchise history. Then, the top of the west all got better and the Jazz were fully capped out and had few assets prior to the Rudy trade.

Jazz would need 2 more All Stars and keep Donovan to even consider contending. Conley isn't it and also isn't worth much on the trade market. There is no realistic path forward to contention.

Burn it down, get a mountain of Knicks picks and build for the future. History would suggest that owning half the Knicks and Wolves picks for the next decade will be pretty valuable. Plus, there is a double draft coming up before too long once the NBA allows high schoolers to be draftable again.

The double draft will mean several players who aren't qualified to play in the NBA are taken far higher than they should. Remember the Harrison twins who played at Kentucky? No, you don't. Ok well they would have been lottery picks had they been able to come out of high school. Spending a year in college or the G league is good for evaluating talent so you don't f*ck up your pick by drafting Kwame Brown or Sebastian Telfair.

And you may rather they suck than be good with your dreams of the future, but most people prefer winning basketball to losing basketball. The worst place to be is a loser with no talent on your roster. It will be good for buying cheap tickets on stubhub, but not much beyond that. The Twolves also have new ownership and new management. This isn't the same people that were running the terrible twolves that you are used to.

This is Gary 2.0 all over again.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

July 14th, 2022, 8:58 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑

July 14th, 2022, 8:42 pm

Burn. It. Down. This last year's Jazz team was one of the least fun in franchise history. Then, the top of the west all got better and the Jazz were fully capped out and had few assets prior to the Rudy trade.

Jazz would need 2 more All Stars and keep Donovan to even consider contending. Conley isn't it and also isn't worth much on the trade market. There is no realistic path forward to contention.

Burn it down, get a mountain of Knicks picks and build for the future. History would suggest that owning half the Knicks and Wolves picks for the next decade will be pretty valuable. Plus, there is a double draft coming up before too long once the NBA allows high schoolers to be draftable again.

The double draft will mean several players who aren't qualified to play in the NBA are taken far higher than they should. Remember the Harrison twins who played at Kentucky? No, you don't. Ok well they would have been lottery picks had they been able to come out of high school. Spending a year in college or the G league is good for evaluating talent so you don't f*ck up your pick by drafting Kwame Brown or Sebastian Telfair.

And you may rather they suck than be good with your dreams of the future, but most people prefer winning basketball to losing basketball. The worst place to be is a loser with no talent on your roster. It will be good for buying cheap tickets on stubhub, but not much beyond that. The Twolves also have new ownership and new management. This isn't the same people that were running the terrible twolves that you are used to.

This is Gary 2.0 all over again.

Agree to disagree.

I'm tired of middling playoff seeds and first round exits. I'd rather follow a rebuild and have hope for more than that.

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑

July 14th, 2022, 10:11 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

July 14th, 2022, 8:58 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑

July 14th, 2022, 8:42 pm

Burn. It. Down. This last year's Jazz team was one of the least fun in franchise history. Then, the top of the west all got better and the Jazz were fully capped out and had few assets prior to the Rudy trade.

Jazz would need 2 more All Stars and keep Donovan to even consider contending. Conley isn't it and also isn't worth much on the trade market. There is no realistic path forward to contention.

Burn it down, get a mountain of Knicks picks and build for the future. History would suggest that owning half the Knicks and Wolves picks for the next decade will be pretty valuable. Plus, there is a double draft coming up before too long once the NBA allows high schoolers to be draftable again.

The double draft will mean several players who aren't qualified to play in the NBA are taken far higher than they should. Remember the Harrison twins who played at Kentucky? No, you don't. Ok well they would have been lottery picks had they been able to come out of high school. Spending a year in college or the G league is good for evaluating talent so you don't f*ck up your pick by drafting Kwame Brown or Sebastian Telfair.

And you may rather they suck than be good with your dreams of the future, but most people prefer winning basketball to losing basketball. The worst place to be is a loser with no talent on your roster. It will be good for buying cheap tickets on stubhub, but not much beyond that. The Twolves also have new ownership and new management. This isn't the same people that were running the terrible twolves that you are used to.

This is Gary 2.0 all over again.

Agree to disagree.

I'm tired of middling playoff seeds and first round exits. I'd rather follow a rebuild and have hope for more than that.

Yep agree to disagree. Everybody who is a Jazz fan wants a championship. We have different views on how to get there.
We have gone back and forth enough to know where each other stand. We can soon debate and go back and forth on other topics such as the gold standard, the value of the Federal Reserve and is the Indiana Jones movie coming out next year really necessary when Harrison Ford is a foot away from the grave.

The Pelicans were exciting this year, lots of unproven players PLUS Brandon Ingram. And next year Zion Williamson.

Maybe we'll be an exciting up and coming team with a young coach, but who will be the star of not Mitchell?

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 15th, 2022, 5:39 pm

The Pelicans were exciting this year, lots of unproven players PLUS Brandon Ingram. And next year Zion Williamson.

Maybe we'll be an exciting up and coming team with a young coach, but who will be the star of not Mitchell?

Maybe. I'll believe it when I see it.

Zion will play for ten games before another season ending injury.

treesap32 wrote: ↑

July 15th, 2022, 9:35 pm

Zion will play for ten games before another season ending injury.

Dude needs to lose 30+ lbs of we wants to have any hope of making it through a season.

Trade may be imminent?

LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑

July 21st, 2022, 1:45 pm

I would expect Kyle Goon to break that news before PK.

LOL!

any trade with NY will end horribly for the Jazz

Rumor mill has the Bulls interested in Mitchell.
If so, I wonder if a Ball, Williams + 4 unprotected first round picks would work.
I think the Jazz are looking to get a bunch of tall two-way players. Williams and Ball fit that. Ball has a knee issue, but if the Jazz trade Mitchell then it means the Jazz are looking to tank this season - so Ball can take his time.
The Bulls can probably only trade 3 picks, but if they could involve another team and send Coby White to, say, Orlando for a 1st round pick. That could be the fourth pick.
The ironic thing is that a Mitchell / Ball backcourt would be a great compliment to each other.
Maybe if the Jazz keep Mitchell, they can trade for Ball anyway and pair him with Mitchell.

Saw a headline trade had lifestyle/social issues with Utah as part of the issue. Heard that before.


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WAAggie wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pm

Saw a headline trade had lifestyle/social issues with Utah as part of the issue. Heard that before.

That's pretty normal. There are many places I don't want to live because my personal take on lifestyle/social issues is incongruent with the location's take on lifestyle/social issues.

If Utah's take on lifestyle/social issues became aligned with the average NBA player's take on lifestyle/social issues, I imagine that Utah would be added to my list of places I don't want to live.

brownjeans wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2022, 3:34 pm

WAAggie wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pm

Saw a headline trade had lifestyle/social issues with Utah as part of the issue. Heard that before.

That's pretty normal. There are many places I don't want to live because my personal take on lifestyle/social issues is incongruent with the location's take on lifestyle/social issues.

If Utah's take on lifestyle/social issues became aligned with the average NBA player's take on lifestyle/social issues, I imagine that Utah would be added to my list of places I don't want to live.

Makes you wonder how viable an NBA franchise in Utah will be going forward. Whether the ownership decides the franchise can't compete for to free agents or keep draft picks because of some perceived social issue, or the league deciding that Utah doesn't meet the social criteria required for a franchise and forces the team out. Just like California has a list of states with which they won't do business, the NBA could very easily implement a social checklist for their franchises. The NBA has decided it wants to be a socially and politically active league and Utah doesn't really fit their mold. And top players are becoming much more active and vocal in social issues. I could see the Jazz not in SLC beyond 2032.

Yossarian wrote: ↑

August 8th, 2022, 6:37 pm

brownjeans wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2022, 3:34 pm

WAAggie wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pm

Saw a headline trade had lifestyle/social issues with Utah as part of the issue. Heard that before.

That's pretty normal. There are many places I don't want to live because my personal take on lifestyle/social issues is incongruent with the location's take on lifestyle/social issues.

If Utah's take on lifestyle/social issues became aligned with the average NBA player's take on lifestyle/social issues, I imagine that Utah would be added to my list of places I don't want to live.

Makes you wonder how viable an NBA franchise in Utah will be going forward. Whether the ownership decides the franchise can't compete for to free agents or keep draft picks because of some perceived social issue, or the league deciding that Utah doesn't meet the social criteria required for a franchise and forces the team out. Just like California has a list of states with which they won't do business, the NBA could very easily implement a social checklist for their franchises. The NBA has decided it wants to be a socially and politically active league and Utah doesn't really fit their mold. And top players are becoming much more active and vocal in social issues. I could see the Jazz not in SLC beyond 2032.

If Smith moves the team, especially if it were to Vegas or another "small market" there would be riots in the streets.

Traded to Cleveland

Jazz got a haul for him. 3 first rounders, 2 swap picks (likely top 15 draft picks), Sexton, and Markkanen.

LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑

September 1st, 2022, 2:37 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote: ↑

September 1st, 2022, 2:14 pm

Jazz got a haul for him. 3 first rounders, 2 swap picks (likely top 15 draft picks), Sexton, and Markkanen.

And this year's first round pick.

I like Agbaji. 6'6" elite athlete who can shoot and defend. Yes please.

brownjeans wrote: ↑

September 1st, 2022, 2:41 pm

LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑

September 1st, 2022, 2:37 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote: ↑

September 1st, 2022, 2:14 pm

Jazz got a haul for him. 3 first rounders, 2 swap picks (likely top 15 draft picks), Sexton, and Markkanen.

And this year's first round pick.

I like Agbaji. 6'6" elite athlete who can shoot and defend. Yes please.

KU players are overrated. At least that is what @ineptimusprime tells us.

Now we just need to hope that Mobley/Garland don't become stars and/or do become unhappy in Cleveland and that Donovan moves on after 2025.

After reading this article on the possible offers from NY (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/09/det ... chell.html), I think the Jazz got better from Cleveland. NY over-played their hand. They thought no other team could offer the picks that Utah wanted and NY over-valued their young players - all of whom have flaws. The longer NY played hard ball, the more likely it was that Ainge was going to work something out with another team.

the problem i see is that those draft picks from Cleveland are likely to be pretty high picks in the end. Cleveland is going to be good. That's a powerful core of talented young athletic dudes in Mobley, Allen, Garland, and now Mitchell. I guess that's what @3rdGenAggie was talking about...hoping that young core breaks up sooner rather than later so those unprotected picks can be lottery picks instead of mid-20s picks. I do like the young guys the jazz picked up in this trade, but it would be really great if the draft capital gained ends up being something meaningful

ShowMeAggie wrote: ↑

September 2nd, 2022, 9:26 am

the problem i see is that those draft picks from Cleveland are likely to be pretty high picks in the end. Cleveland is going to be good. That's a powerful core of talented young athletic dudes in Mobley, Allen, Garland, and now Mitchell. I guess that's what @3rdGenAggie was talking about...hoping that young core breaks up sooner rather than later so those unprotected picks can be lottery picks instead of mid-20s picks. I do like the young guys the jazz picked up in this trade, but it would be really great if the draft capital gained ends up being something meaningful

The next TV contract is going to raise the cap a lot. The current collective bargaining agreement limits the increase amount for contract extensions. That means most everyone on current contracts like Donovan won't extend with their teams, but will go to free agency because they can get a lot more money. There could be a lot of shifts in where the best players are playing in a few years.