Smith hire looking like a train wreck for the U

Winkie · Post by **Winkie** » May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm

Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.

cval · Post by **cval** » May 14th, 2021, 4:36 pm

His case of ex-Aggie-itis is getting worse and worse.

He wasn’t perfect, but we loved him before he snuck out of town in the night.

Bank Shot · Post by **Bank Shot** » May 14th, 2021, 4:53 pm

If 3+ year's ago someone had offered me a new coach that would get us in the dance 3 years in a row, but would leave for Utah, I would have gladly swallowed the bitter pill and accepted the deal. And if Odom can do the same thing, he can then go wherever the hell he pleases.

Ok Aggie Fan · Post by **Ok Aggie Fan** » May 14th, 2021, 6:08 pm

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Post by **aggies22** » May 15th, 2021, 8:49 am

Bank Shot wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 4:53 pm
If 3+ year's ago someone had offered me a new coach that would get us in the dance 3 years in a row, but would leave for Utah, I would have gladly swallowed the bitter pill and accepted the deal. And if Odom can do the same thing, he can then go wherever the hell he pleases.

I agree my Aggie brother. I enjoy winning.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » May 15th, 2021, 11:50 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 8:49 am

Bank Shot wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 4:53 pm
If 3+ year's ago someone had offered me a new coach that would get us in the dance 3 years in a row, but would leave for Utah, I would have gladly swallowed the bitter pill and accepted the deal. And if Odom can do the same thing, he can then go wherever the hell he pleases.
I agree my Aggie brother. I enjoy winning.

I enjoy winning too. Reading Winkie’s post did make a thought pop up in this brain of mine. I think that Coach Smith won many games due to his enthusiasm. He could motivate the type of player he preferred recruiting.
As for x’s and 0’s, well the Jury is out on that. I don’t think he was lousy utilizing them, but he did leave a lot to be desired. Sam and Nemi had a lot to do with Smith and the Aggies doing well. That comes to my point. If Odom can coach Baltimore County as a 16 seed, to a victory over a 1 seed Virginia team, then he is probably one of two things.
He is either an extraordinary X’s and 0’s coach, or very lucky. Having won said game, I would say he is the former. I know, I know, you need talent. I think we are getting there.

Bank Shot · Post by **Bank Shot** » May 15th, 2021, 12:07 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 11:50 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 8:49 am

Bank Shot wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 4:53 pm
If 3+ year's ago someone had offered me a new coach that would get us in the dance 3 years in a row, but would leave for Utah, I would have gladly swallowed the bitter pill and accepted the deal. And if Odom can do the same thing, he can then go wherever the hell he pleases.
I agree my Aggie brother. I enjoy winning.
I enjoy winning too. Reading Winkie’s post did make a thought pop up in this brain of mine. I think that Coach Smith won many games due to his enthusiasm. He could motivate the type of player he preferred recruiting.
As for x’s and 0’s, well the Jury is out on that. I don’t think he was lousy utilizing them, but he did leave a lot to be desired. Sam and Nemi had a lot to do with Smith and the Aggies doing well. That comes to my point. If Odom can coach Baltimore County as a 16 seed, to a victory over a 1 seed Virginia team, then he is probably one of two things.
He is either an extraordinary X’s and 0’s coach, or very lucky. Having won said game, I would say he is the former. I know, I know, you need talent. I think we are getting there.

As far as defensive schemes and getting it executed, I think Craig was very good. Yes, I know he had the big guy but it still takes all the other guys to buy in and execute to take advantage of Queta's skill. I would agree that offensively, they X's and O's were suspect. There were just too many occasions that the offense stalled with not enough ball movement and player movement. Prime example was Marco. Too often, once the ball got to him, the offense stopped, especially early in the year. There were flashes of good execution, but not consistent enough and sometimes non-existent.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm

You don't go 225-108, win 4 league championships and get named COY in your league 5 times in just 10 years as a head coach because you're "enthusiastic". You don't take a team picked ninth in their league to regular season co-champs with a team picked to be a Top 10 team and win your conference tournament because you're "enthusiastic". You don't finish top two in your league every year you're the coach with a team that had barely sniffed fourth place once because you're "enthusiastic".

For the people who keep saying "Well, he did what he did because he had Sam and Neemi", I would say its a two-way street and that it can be easily argued that Sam and Neemi did what they were able to do largely because of Craig Smith.

BLUERUFiO · Post by **BLUERUFiO** » May 15th, 2021, 12:43 pm

I agree with the first paragraph. The second paragraph is too much of a stretch for me.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » May 15th, 2021, 12:47 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm
You don't go 225-108, win 4 league championships and get named COY in your league 5 times in just 10 years as a head coach because you're "enthusiastic". You don't take a team picked ninth in their league to regular season co-champs with a team picked to be a Top 10 team and win your conference tournament because you're "enthusiastic". You don't finish top two in your league every year you're the coach with a team that had barely sniffed fourth place once because you're "enthusiastic".

For the people who keep saying "Well, he did what he did because he had Sam and Neemi", I would say its a two-way street and that it can be easily argued that Sam and Neemi did what they were able to do largely because of Craig Smith.

Your kind or right, but you can’t deny that Craig is enthusiastic with his players, and like it or not, that is a big thing in college sports. Do you think Craig would have his record here without it? Of course he wouldn’t. It wasn’t everything, but a big part that enabled him to win.

TheAKAggie · Post by **TheAKAggie** » May 15th, 2021, 5:58 pm

BigBlueBlood wrote:The meaning behind transfers was more intriguing years ago when the athlete had some skin in the game and had to sit out a year. Now? With no real consequence to transferring, if a kid wants to be closer to home, get a little more playing time, pursue a different degree, or follow a girlfriend, etc. it's much easier to do. Instead, transferring usually meant a problem with the coaching staff or the player was counseled out of the program. Not always, but usually. Smith "losing" players he did not recruit and with whom he has no connection, is not surprising to me. You might argue that he needs to "recruit" them to stay and that a failure to do so is a recruiting failure. I disagree. There is a difference between recruiting a guy over time with whom the coach establishes a relationship, and having a couple of weeks to convince a stranger who loved the guy you replaced to stay.

Pursue a different degree…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » May 15th, 2021, 8:47 pm

I don't quite understand the logic by some on here that Smith was only a good motivator, but not a good x's and o's coach. Not saying he was the best the x's and o's coach, but he was solid. HIs defense was always good even when Queta was injured. You don't got the 3 straight tourney's and 3 straight MW championships and winning 2 of them by not being a good coach. He certainly had his flaws, but he is a very good coach. I do wish he ran more sets on offense, it seemed when we ran sets we had good production. The out of bounds play that we ran for Bean was a thing of beauty and led to probably 30 makes for Bean at his distance.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » May 17th, 2021, 11:02 am

You give Smith coach K’s demeanor, and he would have not produced as well as he did. Just sayin’.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » May 17th, 2021, 11:10 am

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm
You don't go 225-108, win 4 league championships and get named COY in your league 5 times in just 10 years as a head coach because you're "enthusiastic". You don't take a team picked ninth in their league to regular season co-champs with a team picked to be a Top 10 team and win your conference tournament because you're "enthusiastic". You don't finish top two in your league every year you're the coach with a team that had barely sniffed fourth place once because you're "enthusiastic".

For the people who keep saying "Well, he did what he did because he had Sam and Neemi", I would say its a two-way street and that it can be easily argued that Sam and Neemi did what they were able to do largely because of Craig Smith.

Try selling that to Jim Valvano’s teams. It was his enthusiasm and love for the game that pulled them together. To a man, that was why and how they won their championship. Enthusiasm isn’t everything, but it is a big contributor. Isn’t enthusiasm why we are loving our new football staff right now? You can’t rule it out.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 17th, 2021, 2:00 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:10 am

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm
You don't go 225-108, win 4 league championships and get named COY in your league 5 times in just 10 years as a head coach because you're "enthusiastic". You don't take a team picked ninth in their league to regular season co-champs with a team picked to be a Top 10 team and win your conference tournament because you're "enthusiastic". You don't finish top two in your league every year you're the coach with a team that had barely sniffed fourth place once because you're "enthusiastic".

For the people who keep saying "Well, he did what he did because he had Sam and Neemi", I would say its a two-way street and that it can be easily argued that Sam and Neemi did what they were able to do largely because of Craig Smith.
Try selling that to Jim Valvano’s teams. It was his enthusiasm and love for the game that pulled them together. To a man, that was why and how they won their championship. Enthusiasm isn’t everything, but it is a big contributor. Isn’t enthusiasm why we are loving our new football staff right now? You can’t rule it out.

I never said enthusiasm wasn't important. Just bothered by the implication by some that Smith somehow accomplished everything he has solely because of his "personality". You've got to have the right system and knowledge in place before enthusiasm can elevate anything. If you're doing the wrong things, no amount of enthusiasm will make you successful.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » May 17th, 2021, 2:55 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 2:00 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:10 am

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 15th, 2021, 12:33 pm
You don't go 225-108, win 4 league championships and get named COY in your league 5 times in just 10 years as a head coach because you're "enthusiastic". You don't take a team picked ninth in their league to regular season co-champs with a team picked to be a Top 10 team and win your conference tournament because you're "enthusiastic". You don't finish top two in your league every year you're the coach with a team that had barely sniffed fourth place once because you're "enthusiastic".

For the people who keep saying "Well, he did what he did because he had Sam and Neemi", I would say its a two-way street and that it can be easily argued that Sam and Neemi did what they were able to do largely because of Craig Smith.
Try selling that to Jim Valvano’s teams. It was his enthusiasm and love for the game that pulled them together. To a man, that was why and how they won their championship. Enthusiasm isn’t everything, but it is a big contributor. Isn’t enthusiasm why we are loving our new football staff right now? You can’t rule it out.
I never said enthusiasm wasn't important. Just bothered by the implication by some that Smith somehow accomplished everything he has solely because of his "personality". You've got to have the right system and knowledge in place before enthusiasm can elevate anything. If you're doing the wrong things, no amount of enthusiasm will make you successful.

I 100% agree with you . I was just focusing on attitude, because, IMO that is Smiths strong suit. I do however think that Smith is no Quinn Snyder when it comes to calling plays and using timeouts. He’s just ok in my book. Not great by any stretch.

Blitz79 · Post by **Blitz79** » May 17th, 2021, 5:03 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:02 am
You give Smith coach K’s demeanor, and he would have not produced as well as he did. Just sayin’.

BS statement, if you coach K Smith's energy he would not produce squat. People are different.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.

“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 17th, 2021, 9:52 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.
“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.

I don't see the resemblance between Craig Smith and Marco Anthony (or Queta or Anderson) and yet Smith brought him here and is taking him with him. Maybe I'm missing something.

Every coach in America wants OKG's - the kind of guys that will fit their system best, that will buy into the philosophy. Smith's philosophy is based on GATA. Team-first players that will outwork anyone. Those kind of guys are Smith's OKGs.
It's some sort of scientology-level BS pronounce it otherwise and to make these kinds of serious accusations/insinuations about someone without any evidence to support your claim.

Bank Shot · Post by **Bank Shot** » May 17th, 2021, 9:56 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.
“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.

Wow. Unfreakingbelievable!

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 17th, 2021, 10:02 pm

So the coach that everyone was dancing in the streets about keeping when he didn't get the Minnesota job has magically transformed into a racist fraud over the past month. That is some sH1+ that even Cougarboard couldn't top. It's embarrassing as hell.

cval · Post by **cval** » May 17th, 2021, 10:03 pm

A bad case of ex-Aggie-Itis.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » May 17th, 2021, 10:15 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:52 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.
“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.
I don't see the resemblance between Craig Smith and Marco Anthony (or Queta or Anderson) and yet Smith brought him here and is taking him with him. Maybe I'm missing something.

Every coach in America wants OKG's - the kind of guys that will fit their system best, that will buy into the philosophy. Smith's philosophy is based on GATA. Team-first players that will outwork anyone. Those kind of guys are Smith's OKGs.
It's some sort of scientology-level BS pronounce it otherwise and to make these kinds of serious accusations/insinuations about someone without any evidence to support your claim.

No serious accusation here. Don’t think Smith is or was racist, I just think he recruited who he was comfortable with (i.e., people that wouldn’t make waves, that wouldn’t rock the boat, etc.), not necessarily the best players or the players that best fit with our roster, which usually meant white guys. The “evidence” is in the rosters he constructed. There are obviously a token few exceptions to the rule that he largely recruited white guys.

It is astonishing to me that people are so uncomfortable discussing race that they can’t even acknowledge the highly-likely and even innocuous explanation that Smith largely recruited white guys because it was easier for him. It is a lot easier just to recruit white guys to Logan than it is trying to help young African-American kids acclimate and thrive in Logan. The “OKG” model described in this thread sure seemed like the mentality of a coach that was not willing to deal with players that would require him to put any effort into non-basketball issues — like a young african-american kid dealing with culture shock in a rural, religiously-conservative Utah community.

I appreciate what Smith did here. It was a fun three years, but I am glad we have Coach Odom now.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 17th, 2021, 10:24 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:15 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:52 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.
“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.
I don't see the resemblance between Craig Smith and Marco Anthony (or Queta or Anderson) and yet Smith brought him here and is taking him with him. Maybe I'm missing something.

Every coach in America wants OKG's - the kind of guys that will fit their system best, that will buy into the philosophy. Smith's philosophy is based on GATA. Team-first players that will outwork anyone. Those kind of guys are Smith's OKGs.
It's some sort of scientology-level BS pronounce it otherwise and to make these kinds of serious accusations/insinuations about someone without any evidence to support your claim.
No serious accusation here. Don’t think Smith is or was racist, I just think he recruited who he was comfortable with (i.e., people that wouldn’t make waves, that wouldn’t rock the boat, etc.), not necessarily the best players or the players that best fit with our roster, which usually meant white guys. The “evidence” is in the rosters he constructed. There are obviously a token few exceptions to the rule that he largely recruited white guys.

It is astonishing to me that people are so uncomfortable discussing race that they can’t even acknowledge the highly-likely and even innocuous explanation that Smith largely recruited white guys because it was easier for him. It is a lot easier just to recruit white guys to Logan than it is trying to help young African-American kids acclimate and thrive in Logan. The “OKG” model described in this thread sure seemed like the mentality of a coach that was not willing to deal with players that would require him to put any effort into non-basketball issues.

I appreciate what Smith did here. He’s a great coach and will do well at Utah. Smith’s over-exuberant style is not for everyone (certainly not for me).

That’s not what you said. You said Smith only wanted “players that look like me” which cannot really be interpreted in any other way than being 100% racist.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » May 17th, 2021, 10:29 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:24 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:15 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:52 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.
“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.
I don't see the resemblance between Craig Smith and Marco Anthony (or Queta or Anderson) and yet Smith brought him here and is taking him with him. Maybe I'm missing something.

Every coach in America wants OKG's - the kind of guys that will fit their system best, that will buy into the philosophy. Smith's philosophy is based on GATA. Team-first players that will outwork anyone. Those kind of guys are Smith's OKGs.
It's some sort of scientology-level BS pronounce it otherwise and to make these kinds of serious accusations/insinuations about someone without any evidence to support your claim.
No serious accusation here. Don’t think Smith is or was racist, I just think he recruited who he was comfortable with (i.e., people that wouldn’t make waves, that wouldn’t rock the boat, etc.), not necessarily the best players or the players that best fit with our roster, which usually meant white guys. The “evidence” is in the rosters he constructed. There are obviously a token few exceptions to the rule that he largely recruited white guys.

It is astonishing to me that people are so uncomfortable discussing race that they can’t even acknowledge the highly-likely and even innocuous explanation that Smith largely recruited white guys because it was easier for him. It is a lot easier just to recruit white guys to Logan than it is trying to help young African-American kids acclimate and thrive in Logan. The “OKG” model described in this thread sure seemed like the mentality of a coach that was not willing to deal with players that would require him to put any effort into non-basketball issues.

I appreciate what Smith did here. He’s a great coach and will do well at Utah. Smith’s over-exuberant style is not for everyone (certainly not for me).
That’s not what you said. You said Smith only wanted “players that look like me” which cannot really be interpreted in any other way than being 100% racist.

That’s exactly what I said. How about quoting the entire phrase. I also never said “only.”

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » May 17th, 2021, 10:31 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:02 pm
So the coach that everyone was dancing in the streets about keeping when he didn't get the Minnesota job has magically transformed into a racist fraud over the past month. That is some sH1+ that even Cougarboard couldn't top. It's embarrassing as hell.

Literally no one has accused Smith of being a racist fraud.

It’s so hard to have a thoughtful discussion about any of this. It quickly devolves into personal attacks, grandstanding from people on both sides of the political aisle, and claims of colorblindness. I think I am done trying to discuss any of this.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » May 17th, 2021, 10:40 pm

Blitz79 wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 5:03 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:02 am
You give Smith coach K’s demeanor, and he would have not produced as well as he did. Just sayin’.
BS statement, if you coach K Smith's energy he would not produce squat. People are different.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 17th, 2021, 10:58 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:29 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:24 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:15 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:52 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Winkie wrote: ↑
May 14th, 2021, 2:17 pm
Apologies. Long Post Alert:

This post mortem on Smith’s recruiting makes me ponder on a moment as we sat at the “fans breakfast”, an event staged as part of the Jersey Mike’s Jamaica Classic back a couple years…the event in which the Aggies came back from 19 down to knock off LSU, then nipped North Texas to win the damn thing (also, UMBC was a participating team, next action off their NCAA miracle, my first exposure to Ryan Odom).

“Steve” (I forgot his last name, but he was coordinator for Basketball Operations) was there representing the team at our table and we discussed recruiting. He told us Craig Smith had a definite philosophy, “We are only going to recruit OKGs.”

What were OKGs? He explained, “That stands for ‘Our Kind of Guys’.” Coach Smith had it in his mind that he needed a certain personality type to be successful. Character people (he figured he was lousy at dealing with “off-court” issues, just didn’t want to deal with lifestyle matters for his players), folks who were appreciative of the opportunity, ones who would buckle down, not cause waves, work hard, sustain team connectivity. I realize now (my take) also some of those who were primed and susceptible to the “rah-rah”, high energy environment he fostered…. (“Let’s go crash through that wall, men!! Charge!!) Maybe he got more out of his teams with that approach than talent would have dictated.

Maybe some of his deficits being identified on this fan board fit into the pattern. Maybe he was not so great at X’s & O’s. And, in a head-to-head battle, he may not figure to be the most successful landing the best talent level kid; which accounts for some of the gems he’s found around the fringes. (Don’t think Neemy was on too many teams’ radar when Eric Peterson tracked him down and landed him. Liam McChesney, another example, a kid famously flying to the Las Vegas tournament just to be “discovered”. How many foreign-born players?) He could pluck off a few of these, be good enough, and stay competitive.

Well, now, I’m trusting (maybe hoping) Odom and his staff will go into the battles. I hope they figure to compete head-to-head with other schools, SELL this program on its merits, its history, its potential, (yes, also, its location!), and actually “win” the recruiting battles a few times with higher-level talent. That will be a key to sustained success moving forward. Early returns look promising.
“Our Kind of Guys” or “OKGs” is some scientology level BS. A very thinly-veiled way of saying “I want to
recruit people who look like me because I am more comfortable with that.”

Basically reaffirms my belief that the current racial makeup of the roster is the fault of Smith, Smith, and only Smith.
I don't see the resemblance between Craig Smith and Marco Anthony (or Queta or Anderson) and yet Smith brought him here and is taking him with him. Maybe I'm missing something.

Every coach in America wants OKG's - the kind of guys that will fit their system best, that will buy into the philosophy. Smith's philosophy is based on GATA. Team-first players that will outwork anyone. Those kind of guys are Smith's OKGs.
It's some sort of scientology-level BS pronounce it otherwise and to make these kinds of serious accusations/insinuations about someone without any evidence to support your claim.
No serious accusation here. Don’t think Smith is or was racist, I just think he recruited who he was comfortable with (i.e., people that wouldn’t make waves, that wouldn’t rock the boat, etc.), not necessarily the best players or the players that best fit with our roster, which usually meant white guys. The “evidence” is in the rosters he constructed. There are obviously a token few exceptions to the rule that he largely recruited white guys.

It is astonishing to me that people are so uncomfortable discussing race that they can’t even acknowledge the highly-likely and even innocuous explanation that Smith largely recruited white guys because it was easier for him. It is a lot easier just to recruit white guys to Logan than it is trying to help young African-American kids acclimate and thrive in Logan. The “OKG” model described in this thread sure seemed like the mentality of a coach that was not willing to deal with players that would require him to put any effort into non-basketball issues.

I appreciate what Smith did here. He’s a great coach and will do well at Utah. Smith’s over-exuberant style is not for everyone (certainly not for me).
That’s not what you said. You said Smith only wanted “players that look like me” which cannot really be interpreted in any other way than being 100% racist.
That’s exactly what I said. How about quoting the entire phrase. I also never said “only.”

Doesn’t make any difference. If Smith wanted to “recruit people who look like me because I’m more comfortable with that”, still 100% racist. Textbook definition of racism to determine who to recruit based on what color skin they have. If that’s true, he should have been fired immediately.

3 out of the 5 guys Smith has recruited so far to Utah are African Americans. Guess he quickly got more comfortable over the last month.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » May 17th, 2021, 11:05 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:31 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:02 pm
So the coach that everyone was dancing in the streets about keeping when he didn't get the Minnesota job has magically transformed into a racist fraud over the past month. That is some sH1+ that even Cougarboard couldn't top. It's embarrassing as hell.
Literally no one has accused Smith of being a racist fraud.

It’s so hard to have a thoughtful discussion about any of this. It quickly devolves into personal attacks, grandstanding from people on both sides of the political aisle, and claims of colorblindness. I think I am done trying to discuss any of this.

The insinuations of racism have not been subtle. And there have been claims that Smith skates by on “personality” by some (maybe just one).

How exactly did I attack you personally?

You have have no idea what my political views are.

Where did I claim to be colorblind?

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » May 17th, 2021, 11:34 pm

So, I actually really appreciated the insight into "Our Kind of Guys". I began thinking about the team and people that Coach Smith recruited or developed. Queta, Bean, Miller, Anderson, Marco, Rollie, Shulga... and then I thought about people we might have wanted on the team. Perhaps that was part of recruiting that we didn't see. The players had to fit into and buy into the system. It put these guys (and the one-and-done guys) into a different light by which to consider them.

Consider New Mexico under Coach Weir. They recruited a wealth of talent, but were plagued with off court issues. Do I think it's race related? No. But there's clearly a difference between who he was willing to recruit, and who Coach Smith was willing to recruit.

I understand people's reactions and accusations around race... I disagree with those assertions and ideas. Could it be that Coach Smith connects better with kids who look like him? Sure. I certainly suppose it's possible. But I also think our recruiting doesn't really leave much open to black athletes either. This isn't due to racism, just with what we get. For instance, our team comp is predominantly two groups: white Utah/Mormon kids (the demographic majority of the area) and international recruits (most of whom are not black). We're primarily pulling from two groups of largely white kids. Look for a sprinkling of transfers for some diversity, like Anderson or Marco, but the bigger interest is their willingness to buy into Coach Smith's system.

Of course, if we end up with someone from the local/international scenes that isn't white, great! I just think it's harder demographically. And we seem to have less luck with JC transfers than we did under Stew, who often recruited black players out of JCs.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » May 17th, 2021, 11:39 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:05 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:31 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:02 pm
So the coach that everyone was dancing in the streets about keeping when he didn't get the Minnesota job has magically transformed into a racist fraud over the past month. That is some sH1+ that even Cougarboard couldn't top. It's embarrassing as hell.
Literally no one has accused Smith of being a racist fraud.

It’s so hard to have a thoughtful discussion about any of this. It quickly devolves into personal attacks, grandstanding from people on both sides of the political aisle, and claims of colorblindness. I think I am done trying to discuss any of this.
The insinuations of racism have not been subtle. And there have been claims that Smith skates by on “personality” by some (maybe just one).

How exactly did I attack you personally?

You have have no idea what my political views are.

Where did I claim to be colorblind?

Never suggested that you personally attacked anyone, never presumed to know your political beliefs, and didn’t say you claimed to be colorblind.

This is a conversation worth having, but not one the collective board has demonstrated an ability to have in a productive way.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » May 18th, 2021, 12:16 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:39 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 11:05 pm

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:31 pm

bluegrouse wrote: ↑
May 17th, 2021, 10:02 pm
So the coach that everyone was dancing in the streets about keeping when he didn't get the Minnesota job has magically transformed into a racist fraud over the past month. That is some sH1+ that even Cougarboard couldn't top. It's embarrassing as hell.
Literally no one has accused Smith of being a racist fraud.

It’s so hard to have a thoughtful discussion about any of this. It quickly devolves into personal attacks, grandstanding from people on both sides of the political aisle, and claims of colorblindness. I think I am done trying to discuss any of this.
The insinuations of racism have not been subtle. And there have been claims that Smith skates by on “personality” by some (maybe just one).

How exactly did I attack you personally?

You have have no idea what my political views are.

Where did I claim to be colorblind?
Never suggested that you personally attacked anyone, never presumed to know your political beliefs, and didn’t say you claimed to be colorblind.

This is a conversation worth having, but not one the collective board has demonstrated an ability to have in a productive way.

78 really seems to like saying "horse sh!te" whenever this topic is broached, so we have that to look forward to.

scotlandog · Post by **scotlandog** » May 18th, 2021, 1:26 am

There are quite a few statements in this thread insinuating that only black players have “off court issues”. That is completely racist. It also seems to be coming from those who are strongly suggesting that others(Smith, Odom, USU, Cache Valley, etc.) are racist. Maybe they are projecting onto others. I don’t know.

Also, maybe this has absolutely nothing to do with USU, or Smith, or Odom. Maybe this has more and more to do with this younger generation and how they’ve grown up. Maybe these kids know they can’t handle being away from home or being away from something that feels very similar to what they know or are comfortable with. Maybe their scared with what the media has shoved down our throats for the last decade. Maybe this isn’t a statement from USU or a statement from african americans on USU or any of the things being spewed out.

Personally, I believe it’s more generational overall than anything else and I also think kids know they can transfer easily so they can stay closer to home and prove themselves and then go to a big college that they have their eye on. They don’t need to go somewhere far away to prove themselves. (I would love to see some data on trends of players committing to colleges that are not Power5 and the distance from their hometown.)

I also think the whole premise of this discussion,that just seems to keep coming back alive no matter how many times we throw it in the sand box, is false. I have seen no evidence to show me that anything is amiss or by design and not just natural fluctuations that balance out over time. If there is further evidence after sufficient timers show some sort of malfeasance, we can all look at that and discuss.

Right now, this just feels like that episode of The Office where Michael wants to be the first to present the new married couple and keeps jumping the gun multiple times. It’s also feeling like the boy who cried wolf from a few certain posters and will eventually become white noise. Hold off for a while. Let things play out. And how about you also just leave all of this in the sandbox so those who want to discuss it can. I think everyone knows your stance and we don’t need to hear it again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » May 18th, 2021, 6:55 am

scotlandog wrote: ↑
May 18th, 2021, 1:26 am
There are quite a few statements in this thread insinuating that only black players have “off court issues”. That is completely racist. It also seems to be coming from those who are strongly suggesting that others(Smith, Odom, USU, Cache Valley, etc.) are racist. Maybe they are projecting onto others. I don’t know.

Also, maybe this has absolutely nothing to do with USU, or Smith, or Odom. Maybe this has more and more to do with this younger generation and how they’ve grown up. Maybe these kids know they can’t handle being away from home or being away from something that feels very similar to what they know or are comfortable with. Maybe their scared with what the media has shoved down our throats for the last decade. Maybe this isn’t a statement from USU or a statement from african americans on USU or any of the things being spewed out.

Personally, I believe it’s more generational overall than anything else and I also think kids know they can transfer easily so they can stay closer to home and prove themselves and then go to a big college that they have their eye on. They don’t need to go somewhere far away to prove themselves. (I would love to see some data on trends of players committing to colleges that are not Power5 and the distance from their hometown.)

I also think the whole premise of this discussion,that just seems to keep coming back alive no matter how many times we throw it in the sand box, is false. I have seen no evidence to show me that anything is amiss or by design and not just natural fluctuations that balance out over time. If there is further evidence after sufficient timers show some sort of malfeasance, we can all look at that and discuss.

Right now, this just feels like that episode of The Office where Michael wants to be the first to present the new married couple and keeps jumping the gun multiple times. It’s also feeling like the boy who cried wolf from a few certain posters and will eventually become white noise. Hold off for a while. Let things play out. And how about you also just leave all of this in the sandbox so those who want to discuss it can. I think everyone knows your stance and we don’t need to hear it again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you are referring to my posts, I never suggested or insinuated the African-American kids have “off the court” issues. I did suggest that African-American kids might have a hard time adjusting and feeling welcome and comfortable living in a small, rural, religiously-conservative, racially-homogenous community. It’s a question of kids feeling welcome, included, and comfortable in a certain place. This variable might require extra effort from a coach to make sure that said player thrives at USU. I have been pretty clear that I do not think Smith is or was overtly racist, and I am not going to beat that dead horse again.

It might be “natural fluctuations,” but boy do we ever have a roster that other coaches can negative recruit against right now.

But again, this conversation is going nowhere. No one is going to be persuaded to change their views on these issues by a random person on the internet.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » May 18th, 2021, 7:40 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
May 18th, 2021, 6:55 am
But again, this conversation is going nowhere. No one is going to be persuaded to change their views on these issues by a random person on the internet.

What? All my posts are gold and do nothing but convince others to abandon their ideas and agree with me.

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