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If Cockett gets the boot?
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I am wondering who gets to tell the faculty of a Research Extensive University that their next President is coming from a small regional liberal arts school with no research
Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I'm not trying to piss anybody off in here, but as somebody who is not Mormon, Utah State needs A LOT more religious diversity on campus. I know it is Utah and all but there could be more of an effort to get more religious diversity.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Das Boot? Nein!
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
When Salt Lake County college age flakes work up the gumption to leave their mommies' warm basements and face the cold and The Bull, they'll be most welcome.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
True
But, you know that's exactly the opposite of the players complaint.
Frank was discriminated against by Cockett/Hartwell/USU because he is LDS.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Pretty big implicit "if" in that last sentence.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Cockett and Hartwell were just trying to shake the image of USU being BYU's little brother. BYU has a Polynesian Mormon head coach. They wanted to do something different to shake the little brother reputation. (Said in jest, of course)
Eutaw St. Aggie
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Re: Players need workplace discrimination training
Exactly.
- brownjeans
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
First sentence was just saying I don't think it's wise to purposely target race or religion as criteria for hiring or admissions. Maybe not even legal - however many laws allow such discrimination so long as it favors the minority, but I think it still invites risk. There's a guy out there (Edward Blum) who basically searches for legal cases to take down any laws that use diversity identifiers (gender, preference, race, religion) whether they favor minorities or not. He takes them to SCOTUS to eliminate all such laws. I would like to keep USU away from either side of such battles.WannabeAgAlum wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 7:46 amA agree with the overall sentiment. Trying to reconcile your last sentence with your second-to-last sentence.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 7:04 amBy diversity I mean differences of all kinds. It's hard for a people to learn about and be understanding of people who are different when all their friends are the same as them.WannabeAgAlum wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 6:59 amI agree.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 10:44 pmI hope Crockett stays. People should get a chance to recover when mistakes are made.
She could turn around and make a concerted effort at increasing diversity at USU. That would be really great for USU and Cache Valley
Do you mean racial diversity? Cultural diversity? Religious diversity? If religious, then does that mean LDS or non-LDS?
She probably thought she was increasing religious and cultural (whatever that means) diversity with the hire.
I don't suppose to know her thoughts. As far as I know she could have thought most the players were Protestant or evangelical and she was trying to hire someone the same, not different.
Purposely hiring or admitting students with race and or religion as a factor is a dangerous thing. I think the best thing to do is reach out to diverse people groups and be welcoming and inviting.
Last sentence means you find special interest groups, invite them to campus for discussions with students and faculty. Maybe have USU representatives go out and meet with others. An outreach campaign, rather than a deliberate hiring or admission criteria.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I keep seeing phrase “this is the world we live in” as an excuse for injustice in the pursuit of justice. It’s the world we live in only for however long everyone accepts that this is the world we live in. How about having the courage to stand up to the vigilantes with pitchforks and ropes on the internet and not accept that we have to execute anyone and everyone that is convicted by the mob without even a semblance of a trial? Only when people decide that they will not accept this bull———— anymore do we have a chance to change “the world we live in”. As long as everyone just accepts there is nothing we can do about it then everyone will be right.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
This is exactly my thought as well... when you have candidates that are clearly more qualified- “what do you say to folks when they ask why you hired the LDS guy from Utah?” I have not seen anything attributed to Crockett about racial bias, but her statement in this type of context appears to be in support a more religious diversity. Besides that and more importantly supporting the most qualified applicant.Texasaggie1 wrote:Did anyone else see this from KUTV news, I don't think it was posted in another thread but I could be wrong
The two, whose identities have not been made public, agreed this was the tenor of her statement: "What do we say to outside people who ask us about hiring an LDS person from Utah? We tried that, and it didn’t work."
That doesn't sound bad at all to me and I am of that faith. They should have just stated they had a more qualified candidate but I don't find anything too alarming by that statement.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Come on man. We choose truth over facts.Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:47 amWe still don't fully know what she said, but if she said she wouldn't hire someone because they are Polynesian or Mormon, woke or not woke enough for you, she shouldn't be president of a major university.
To be fair, we still don't fully know the facts and should of course wait until the investigation is complete.
Regulator of Class
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Yes. Why do people think they're entitled to all information about things - especially things that aren't directly about them? Take the hiring process for a new coach for example. Some were really upset that more information wasn't provided. Then the President and AD meet with the team and provide some information and look how well that went. Maybe people should stop thinking they deserve to know things that aren't directly about them. People used to mind their own business.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:10 amDid it ever occur to you there are numerous reasons I might not give you all details of what I’ve been told? My initial post was hardly beating my chest. I give hints when I can because I think people might like to hear what people close to this are saying. If it offends your sensibilities that I don’t give you a transcript of what was said, that’s your issue not mine. Like the guy who started this thread you omitted from your list of offenders, things aren’t looking good for her based on what she said on the call. Ignore me if this post doesn’t meet your criteria.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:53 amCool, then tell us what she said. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you and oleblue111 come on here beating your chests about all the knowledge of the situation you have but refusing to disclose. Let's have it.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 11:08 pmI was initially skeptical that she said what she was accused of but I’ve since had conversations with a couple people on the call or well connected with the program and she’s in a bad spot.
SMH
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Who knows what the investigation will find about the alleged comments made by President Cockett.aggies22 wrote:Scott Wyatt.garyismyhomeboy wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 10:55 pmI’ve heard from a few that the former county attorney guy who was at snow and now at Southern U as president. Cache valley guy. Wyatt I think is his name.
If a change was to be made it will be interesting to see what direction the university goes.
Scott Wyatt checks the same boxes as Frank Maile -
From Utah =
LDS =
When President Cockett was hired he was mentioned as a potential candidate, until he made it clear he was not interested in the job.
He seems to be very happy at SUU and it may take a bit to persuade him to head North.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Religious and cultural discrimination is bad and I’m opposed to that. Glad I got that out of the way.
But what really concerns me is now I question her ability to know what makes a good football coach.
Let’s use an extreme but unlikely example to illustrate my point. Let’s say a guy who doesn’t speak English was a finalist for the job ... but she was concerned about his ability to communicate with the players because he didn’t speak English. Technically that is discrimination against non-English speakers ... but I would have seen her point and saw that she understands how important it is for a coach to communicate in a rapid manner with his players without the need of a translator.
But we already know there are countless LDS and Polynesian and LDS Polynesian coaches that have been very successful. Even if there weren’t, there still wouldn’t be any reason there couldn’t be.
I’m not going to comment on whether she should be fired. But I would prefer she had little input on any further coaching searches (which I know is unlikely).
But what really concerns me is now I question her ability to know what makes a good football coach.
Let’s use an extreme but unlikely example to illustrate my point. Let’s say a guy who doesn’t speak English was a finalist for the job ... but she was concerned about his ability to communicate with the players because he didn’t speak English. Technically that is discrimination against non-English speakers ... but I would have seen her point and saw that she understands how important it is for a coach to communicate in a rapid manner with his players without the need of a translator.
But we already know there are countless LDS and Polynesian and LDS Polynesian coaches that have been very successful. Even if there weren’t, there still wouldn’t be any reason there couldn’t be.
I’m not going to comment on whether she should be fired. But I would prefer she had little input on any further coaching searches (which I know is unlikely).
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Well I for one am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, lets see where the investigation goes and what comes of it.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
The football coach is the highest paid position at the University by a long shot. The top assistants are right there too. The football coach is also the most visible and recognizable employee and much of what a large segment of the public at large thinks about a particular school is limited with the exception of the reputation of their football and basketball programs.USUaggienation wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 12:14 pmReligious and cultural discrimination is bad and I’m opposed to that. Glad I got that out of the way.
But what really concerns me is now I question her ability to know what makes a good football coach.
Let’s use an extreme but unlikely example to illustrate my point. Let’s say a guy who doesn’t speak English was a finalist for the job ... but she was concerned about his ability to communicate with the players because he didn’t speak English. Technically that is discrimination against non-English speakers ... but I would have seen her point and saw that she understands how important it is for a coach to communicate in a rapid manner with his players without the need of a translator.
But we already know there are countless LDS and Polynesian and LDS Polynesian coaches that have been very successful. Even if there weren’t, there still wouldn’t be any reason there couldn’t be.
I’m not going to comment on whether she should be fired. But I would prefer she had little input on any further coaching searches (which I know is unlikely).
The president is always going to be the one signing off or vetoing a potential hire, like it or not.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Good point! Funny to think that you are hiring someone who's going to be making even more money than you are. Imagine having an employee who you hired, making more money than you? That's too funny. I've seen it happen before, but it's not common.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 12:19 pmThe football coach is the highest paid position at the University by a long shot. The top assistants are right there too. The football coach is also the most visible and recognizable employee and much of what a large segment of the public at large thinks about a particular school is limited with the exception of the reputation of their football and basketball programs.USUaggienation wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 12:14 pmReligious and cultural discrimination is bad and I’m opposed to that. Glad I got that out of the way.
But what really concerns me is now I question her ability to know what makes a good football coach.
Let’s use an extreme but unlikely example to illustrate my point. Let’s say a guy who doesn’t speak English was a finalist for the job ... but she was concerned about his ability to communicate with the players because he didn’t speak English. Technically that is discrimination against non-English speakers ... but I would have seen her point and saw that she understands how important it is for a coach to communicate in a rapid manner with his players without the need of a translator.
But we already know there are countless LDS and Polynesian and LDS Polynesian coaches that have been very successful. Even if there weren’t, there still wouldn’t be any reason there couldn’t be.
I’m not going to comment on whether she should be fired. But I would prefer she had little input on any further coaching searches (which I know is unlikely).
The president is always going to be the one signing off or vetoing a potential hire, like it or not.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
usufan1 wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 11:37 amWho knows what the investigation will find about the alleged comments made by President Cockett.aggies22 wrote:Scott Wyatt.garyismyhomeboy wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 10:55 pmI’ve heard from a few that the former county attorney guy who was at snow and now at Southern U as president. Cache valley guy. Wyatt I think is his name.
If a change was to be made it will be interesting to see what direction the university goes.
Scott Wyatt checks the same boxes as Frank Maile -
From Utah =
LDS =
When President Cockett was hired he was mentioned as a potential candidate, until he made it clear he was not interested in the job.
He seems to be very happy at SUU and it may take a bit to persuade him to head North.
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Which means they’d probably hire the opposite of what is rumored to be said. Pay check would be much bigger here.
New president as an outside hire usually brings major turnover to athletics in general. Bring in their own peeps.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I wonder if she's anti athletics now?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:42 amIf I remember right people thought Cockett would be anti athletics too. It seemed like she did not care about athletics until after she became president.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Well we all know she hates Utah!brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 12:34 pmI wonder if she's anti athletics now?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:42 amIf I remember right people thought Cockett would be anti athletics too. It seemed like she did not care about athletics until after she became president.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Are we really byu’s little brother though? They feel more like the awkward neighbor down the street.
I feel like our rivalry with the U feels more like “Big brother vs Little brother” than our rivalry with the zoobs.
Let’s say that our admin does in fact feel that way with Byu. Then you don’t shed the “little brother” label by trying to be different. You shed the label by beating them.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Don't strain your neck with all that head shaking. I'm not sure why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. We're all affiliated with, connection to, and have an interest in USU. I would say the majority of us contribute monetarily to the school. So when serious accusations are levied against USU (and its representatives) of course we're entitled to information about those accusations. Just because accusations aren't "directly" about you, doesn't mean you shouldn't be entitled to more information. Let me give you some examples, and you tell me where you draw the "entitled to more information" line:brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 11:27 amYes. Why do people think they're entitled to all information about things - especially things that aren't directly about them? Take the hiring process for a new coach for example. Some were really upset that more information wasn't provided. Then the President and AD meet with the team and provide some information and look how well that went. Maybe people should stop thinking they deserve to know things that aren't directly about them. People used to mind their own business.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:10 amDid it ever occur to you there are numerous reasons I might not give you all details of what I’ve been told? My initial post was hardly beating my chest. I give hints when I can because I think people might like to hear what people close to this are saying. If it offends your sensibilities that I don’t give you a transcript of what was said, that’s your issue not mine. Like the guy who started this thread you omitted from your list of offenders, things aren’t looking good for her based on what she said on the call. Ignore me if this post doesn’t meet your criteria.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:53 amCool, then tell us what she said. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you and oleblue111 come on here beating your chests about all the knowledge of the situation you have but refusing to disclose. Let's have it.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 11:08 pmI was initially skeptical that she said what she was accused of but I’ve since had conversations with a couple people on the call or well connected with the program and she’s in a bad spot.
SMH
1. Someone tells you that your kid has been walking around school making the most abhorrent and racial statements. Do you feel entitled to know what your kid supposedly said?
2. Someone tells you that the leader of your church, to which you contribute funds, has recently made prejudicial and bigoted statements. Do you feel entitled to know what the leader supposedly said?
3. Someone tells you that your boss has made discriminatory statements about other employees that may have an unknown detrimental effect on your company. Do you feel entitled to know what your boss supposedly said?
None of the foregoing are "directly" about you, but I'm guessing in at least one or more of those scenarios, you feel like you're entitled to more information.
Last edited by AgMac on December 16th, 2020, 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I like Scott Wyatt. He is a great person and a great human. He will not and should not be the president of USU. He has no background in research, I don't even think he has a PhD. Southern Utah is not even in the same universe academically as Utah State is, and the university president needs to be someone with a certain set of credentials.aggies22 wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:45 amScott Wyatt.garyismyhomeboy wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 10:55 pmI’ve heard from a few that the former county attorney guy who was at snow and now at Southern U as president. Cache valley guy. Wyatt I think is his name.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Then say nothing. By not disclosing something you are confident of you are making it worse for her- and aren’t protecting anyone’s reputation or privacy.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:10 amDid it ever occur to you there are numerous reasons I might not give you all details of what I’ve been told? My initial post was hardly beating my chest. I give hints when I can because I think people might like to hear what people close to this are saying. If it offends your sensibilities that I don’t give you a transcript of what was said, that’s your issue not mine. Like the guy who started this thread you omitted from your list of offenders, things aren’t looking good for her based on what she said on the call. Ignore me if this post doesn’t meet your criteria.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:53 amCool, then tell us what she said. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you and oleblue111 come on here beating your chests about all the knowledge of the situation you have but refusing to disclose. Let's have it.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 11:08 pmI was initially skeptical that she said what she was accused of but I’ve since had conversations with a couple people on the call or well connected with the program and she’s in a bad spot.
I know things about several former players- as they were my peers and friends. Some did unethical things, some did things that aren’t wrong but personal.
And I kept my mouth shut. Because speculation is worse than actual discussion. It’s the worst of both worlds.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
We're not entitled to anything. When you contribute or give something. It's no longer yours. You have no hold on it or the person you gave it to. If the person, entity, that you gave it to wants more money from you in the future, they may submit to provide you with what you think you're entitled to, but you'd have to give A LOT to be in such a position of power over USU.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 2:12 pmDon't strain your neck with all that head shaking. I'm not sure why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. We're all affiliated with, connection to, and have an interest in USU. I would say the majority of us contribute monetarily to the school. So when seriously accusations are levied against USU (and its representatives) of course we're entitled to information about those accusations. Just because accusations aren't "directly" about you, doesn't mean you shouldn't be entitled to more information. Let me give you some examples, and you tell me where you draw the "entitled to more information" line:brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 11:27 amYes. Why do people think they're entitled to all information about things - especially things that aren't directly about them? Take the hiring process for a new coach for example. Some were really upset that more information wasn't provided. Then the President and AD meet with the team and provide some information and look how well that went. Maybe people should stop thinking they deserve to know things that aren't directly about them. People used to mind their own business.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:10 amDid it ever occur to you there are numerous reasons I might not give you all details of what I’ve been told? My initial post was hardly beating my chest. I give hints when I can because I think people might like to hear what people close to this are saying. If it offends your sensibilities that I don’t give you a transcript of what was said, that’s your issue not mine. Like the guy who started this thread you omitted from your list of offenders, things aren’t looking good for her based on what she said on the call. Ignore me if this post doesn’t meet your criteria.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:53 amCool, then tell us what she said. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you and oleblue111 come on here beating your chests about all the knowledge of the situation you have but refusing to disclose. Let's have it.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 11:08 pmI was initially skeptical that she said what she was accused of but I’ve since had conversations with a couple people on the call or well connected with the program and she’s in a bad spot.
SMH
1. Someone tells you that your kid has been walking around school making the most abhorrent and racial statements. Do you feel entitled to know what your kid supposedly said?
2. Someone tells you that the leader of your church, to which you contribute funds, has recently made prejudicial and bigoted statements. Do you feel entitled to know what the leader supposedly said?
3. Someone tells you that your boss has made discriminatory statements about other employees that may have an unknown detrimental effect on your company. Do you feel entitled to know what your boss supposedly said?
None of the foregoing are "directly" about you, but I'm guessing in at least one or more of those scenarios, you feel like you're entitled to more information.
Your examples:
1. It's YOUR kid. That's pretty directly about you since things your kid might do can put you in trouble with the law.
2. Nope, I don't. My money didn't buy me anything. I contributed it as a gift. No strings.
3. This is directly about me - but only if my employment is at risk. Otherwise, I don't care.
Last edited by brownjeans on December 16th, 2020, 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Nonsense. Nothing I post on here will impact her status at all. She is a public figure. Your comparison is to your friends. I posted what I am confident about. She is in a bad spot.Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 2:25 pmThen say nothing. By not disclosing something you are confident of you are making it worse for her- and aren’t protecting anyone’s reputation or privacy.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:10 amDid it ever occur to you there are numerous reasons I might not give you all details of what I’ve been told? My initial post was hardly beating my chest. I give hints when I can because I think people might like to hear what people close to this are saying. If it offends your sensibilities that I don’t give you a transcript of what was said, that’s your issue not mine. Like the guy who started this thread you omitted from your list of offenders, things aren’t looking good for her based on what she said on the call. Ignore me if this post doesn’t meet your criteria.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:53 amCool, then tell us what she said. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you and oleblue111 come on here beating your chests about all the knowledge of the situation you have but refusing to disclose. Let's have it.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 11:08 pmI was initially skeptical that she said what she was accused of but I’ve since had conversations with a couple people on the call or well connected with the program and she’s in a bad spot.
I know things about several former players- as they were my peers and friends. Some did unethical things, some did things that aren’t wrong but personal.
And I kept my mouth shut. Because speculation is worse than actual discussion. It’s the worst of both worlds.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Things your kid might do? My example was specific. The accusation was that your kid was making abhorrent and racial statements. Is there some law I don't know about that would get a parent in trouble for that (assuming your kid wasn't threatening anyone)? How about if the accusation was about your wife? Still not entitled to more information? Of course you would feel entitled, even though it wasn't "directly" about you. You would also feel entitled to more information if the accusation was against your church leader, even if you say you wouldn't. That's my point. We all have relationships that make us feel entitled to information about the other people/organizations. Where that line is drawn is subjective, and you're certainly not the arbiter of the matter.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:14 pmYour examples:
1. It's YOUR kid. That's pretty directly about you since things your kid might do can put you in trouble with the law.
2. Nope, I don't. My money didn't buy me anything. I contributed it as a gift. No strings.
3. This is directly about me - but only if my employment is at risk. Otherwise, I don't care.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I have to think Cockett must have wrongly assumed GA was LDS. Either that, or an LDS person was offered the job and said "no?"Texasaggie1 wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:39 amDid anyone else see this from KUTV news, I don't think it was posted in another thread but I could be wrong
The two, whose identities have not been made public, agreed this was the tenor of her statement: "What do we say to outside people who ask us about hiring an LDS person from Utah? We tried that, and it didn’t work."
That doesn't sound bad at all to me and I am of that faith. They should have just stated they had a more qualified candidate but I don't find anything too alarming by that statement.
I can't make any sense of that quote.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
GA is a less active LDS member, I believe.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 4:33 pmI have to think Cockett must have wrongly assumed GA was LDS. Either that, or an LDS person was offered the job and said "no?"Texasaggie1 wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:39 amDid anyone else see this from KUTV news, I don't think it was posted in another thread but I could be wrong
The two, whose identities have not been made public, agreed this was the tenor of her statement: "What do we say to outside people who ask us about hiring an LDS person from Utah? We tried that, and it didn’t work."
That doesn't sound bad at all to me and I am of that faith. They should have just stated they had a more qualified candidate but I don't find anything too alarming by that statement.
I can't make any sense of that quote.
GO AGGIES! GO AGGIES! HEY! HEY! HEY!
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
That would clear that part up. But, I still don't understand who these "outside people" are that USU is having to explain this all to in her hypothetical.BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 4:36 pmGA is a less active LDS member, I believe.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 4:33 pmI have to think Cockett must have wrongly assumed GA was LDS. Either that, or an LDS person was offered the job and said "no?"Texasaggie1 wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:39 amDid anyone else see this from KUTV news, I don't think it was posted in another thread but I could be wrong
The two, whose identities have not been made public, agreed this was the tenor of her statement: "What do we say to outside people who ask us about hiring an LDS person from Utah? We tried that, and it didn’t work."
That doesn't sound bad at all to me and I am of that faith. They should have just stated they had a more qualified candidate but I don't find anything too alarming by that statement.
I can't make any sense of that quote.
With the proper added context, I can see how this could be seen as a statement that we aren't considering Utah Mormons for this position because "it didn't work" previously. It's a pretty clumsy statement.
Is there a race angle that has not been published, or is that part just completely made up? The race angle would seem to be much worse for Cockett if there is any smoke there.
But given we hired Anderson, we better hope our track record with devout Baptists is better than it is with Utah Mormons....
Weren't there any good atheist options for head coach?
Last edited by ineptimusprime on December 16th, 2020, 4:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
I did that because it was the right thing. Not all of them were my friends.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:23 pmNonsense. Nothing I post on here will impact her status at all. She is a public figure. Your comparison is to your friends. I posted what I am confident about. She is in a bad spot.Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 2:25 pmThen say nothing. By not disclosing something you are confident of you are making it worse for her- and aren’t protecting anyone’s reputation or privacy.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 9:10 amDid it ever occur to you there are numerous reasons I might not give you all details of what I’ve been told? My initial post was hardly beating my chest. I give hints when I can because I think people might like to hear what people close to this are saying. If it offends your sensibilities that I don’t give you a transcript of what was said, that’s your issue not mine. Like the guy who started this thread you omitted from your list of offenders, things aren’t looking good for her based on what she said on the call. Ignore me if this post doesn’t meet your criteria.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 8:53 amCool, then tell us what she said. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you and oleblue111 come on here beating your chests about all the knowledge of the situation you have but refusing to disclose. Let's have it.Intermeddler wrote: ↑December 15th, 2020, 11:08 pmI was initially skeptical that she said what she was accused of but I’ve since had conversations with a couple people on the call or well connected with the program and she’s in a bad spot.
I know things about several former players- as they were my peers and friends. Some did unethical things, some did things that aren’t wrong but personal.
And I kept my mouth shut. Because speculation is worse than actual discussion. It’s the worst of both worlds.
Do you see why one might think you’re beating your chest to “have sources”? I’m not against you not sharing. I just don’t think it’s as useful to share halfway. I think it’s the worst of both worlds.
- brownjeans
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Your kid, your responsibility - directly your business.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:41 pmThings your kid might do? My example was specific. The accusation was that your kid was making abhorrent and racial statements. Is there some law I don't know about that would get a parent in trouble for that (assuming your kid wasn't threatening anyone)? How about if the accusation was about your wife? Still not entitled to more information? Of course you would feel entitled, even though it wasn't "directly" about you. You would also feel entitled to more information if the accusation was against your church leader, even if you say you wouldn't. That's my point. We all have relationships that make us feel entitled to information about the other people/organizations. Where that line is drawn is subjective, and you're certainly not the arbiter of the matter.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:14 pmYour examples:
1. It's YOUR kid. That's pretty directly about you since things your kid might do can put you in trouble with the law.
2. Nope, I don't. My money didn't buy me anything. I contributed it as a gift. No strings.
3. This is directly about me - but only if my employment is at risk. Otherwise, I don't care.
Your wife also has direct relation to you. If there is some legal action it will affect your life, your bank accounts, your property - any and all things bound by law between you and your wife. Also, if I wanted to know something about it, I'd ask my wife directly and she'd either tell me or she wouldn't. I wouldn't go around trying to get information from ancillary sources like the internet.
Your examples should have some relation to the situation, don't you think?
You telling me I'd feel entitled doesn't make it so. YOU may feel entitled to that info, not me. Projecting your feelings on others doesn't make them feel the way you think/want.
Your point that the line is subjective is true, and I'm not the arbiter, feeling your entitled doesn't give people the right have information and neither does giving money. You pay taxes and the government uses those funds to collect a lot of information that you're not entitled to have.
Last edited by brownjeans on December 16th, 2020, 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
My examples were presented to illustrate that everyone has a subjective benchmark where they believe to be "directly" affected and thus entitled to additional information. You have yours. Your answers have given an indication where that benchmark lies for you. It is different for others. So what makes you the omniscient judge of what is and what is not an appropriate benchmark?brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 5:03 pmYour kid, your responsibility - directly your business.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:41 pmThings your kid might do? My example was specific. The accusation was that your kid was making abhorrent and racial statements. Is there some law I don't know about that would get a parent in trouble for that (assuming your kid wasn't threatening anyone)? How about if the accusation was about your wife? Still not entitled to more information? Of course you would feel entitled, even though it wasn't "directly" about you. You would also feel entitled to more information if the accusation was against your church leader, even if you say you wouldn't. That's my point. We all have relationships that make us feel entitled to information about the other people/organizations. Where that line is drawn is subjective, and you're certainly not the arbiter of the matter.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:14 pmYour examples:
1. It's YOUR kid. That's pretty directly about you since things your kid might do can put you in trouble with the law.
2. Nope, I don't. My money didn't buy me anything. I contributed it as a gift. No strings.
3. This is directly about me - but only if my employment is at risk. Otherwise, I don't care.
Your wife also has direct relation to you as if there is some legal action it will hit your life, your bank accounts, your property - any and all things bound by law between you and your wife. Also, if I wanted to know something about it, I'd ask my wife directly and she'd either tell me or she wouldn't. I wouldn't go around trying to get information from ancillary sources like the internet.
Your examples should have some relation to the situation, don't you think?
- brownjeans
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Re: If Cockett gets the boot?
Your point that the line is subjective is true, and I'm not the arbiter, feeling your entitled doesn't give people the right have information and neither does giving money. You pay taxes and the government uses those funds to collect a lot of information that you're not entitled to have. Even freedom-of-information laws have limits.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 5:18 pmMy examples were presented to illustrate that everyone has a subjective benchmark where they believe to be "directly" affected and thus entitled to additional information. You have yours. Your answers have given an indication where that benchmark lies for you. It is different for others. So what makes you the omniscient judge of what is and what is not an appropriate benchmark?brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 5:03 pmYour kid, your responsibility - directly your business.AgMac wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:41 pmThings your kid might do? My example was specific. The accusation was that your kid was making abhorrent and racial statements. Is there some law I don't know about that would get a parent in trouble for that (assuming your kid wasn't threatening anyone)? How about if the accusation was about your wife? Still not entitled to more information? Of course you would feel entitled, even though it wasn't "directly" about you. You would also feel entitled to more information if the accusation was against your church leader, even if you say you wouldn't. That's my point. We all have relationships that make us feel entitled to information about the other people/organizations. Where that line is drawn is subjective, and you're certainly not the arbiter of the matter.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 16th, 2020, 3:14 pmYour examples:
1. It's YOUR kid. That's pretty directly about you since things your kid might do can put you in trouble with the law.
2. Nope, I don't. My money didn't buy me anything. I contributed it as a gift. No strings.
3. This is directly about me - but only if my employment is at risk. Otherwise, I don't care.
Your wife also has direct relation to you as if there is some legal action it will hit your life, your bank accounts, your property - any and all things bound by law between you and your wife. Also, if I wanted to know something about it, I'd ask my wife directly and she'd either tell me or she wouldn't. I wouldn't go around trying to get information from ancillary sources like the internet.
Your examples should have some relation to the situation, don't you think?
Why do you think you're entitled to this information? Does NOT having the information put you personally at risk in any way shape or form? Are you entitled to it because you really, really want it?