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Frank's Statement
- brownjeans
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Re: Frank's Statement
Because future discrimination claims was his gambit from the start?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:18 pmIs there a reason brownjeans posts are always modified without any indication of editing? Just curious.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pmBecause clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pmNow my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
To your question, it absolutely would have helped him with his upcoming claims.
If you edit before another post hits the thread, the system allows the edit without notation.
I need to be better at reading what I've typed before I hit submit.
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Re: Frank's Statement
So it's the racist bigots vs the misogynists now? Let's all calm down a bit and wait for facts.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pmBecause people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pmYou won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmWow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.
That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
Where only sage brush grows
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Re: Frank's Statement
I'm tired of arguing with you. I'll DM you and be done with our exchange.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:23 pmBecause future discrimination claims was his gambit from the start?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:18 pmIs there a reason brownjeans posts are always modified without any indication of editing? Just curious.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pmBecause clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pmNow my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
To your question, it absolutely would have helped him with his upcoming claims.
If you edit before another post hits the thread, the system allows the edit without notation.
I need to be better at reading what I've typed before I hit submit.
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Re: Frank's Statement
No! It’s neither! That’s what I’m saying.stwinward wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:25 pmSo it's the racist bigots vs the misogynists now? Let's all calm down a bit and wait for facts.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pmBecause people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pmYou won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmWow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.
That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
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Re: Frank's Statement
The institution that is Utah State University is not going to be ruined in any way because of this, or figuratively burned down. The football program will be fine. President Cockett is the only one who stands to lose.Sl7vk wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:41 pmNice straw man argument you are lining up there.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.
Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.
That’s enough to upset me.
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Re: Frank's Statement
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.MrBiggle wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pmI don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
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Re: Frank's Statement
“Nothing good is born from lies, and greatness isn’t what you think” (Wonder Woman).
Re: Frank's Statement
Why are we litigating statements made by the players and Frank. Yet no one is litigating Cockett; is she infallible, without bias?
Also, we should be looking at the process of how the interviews and decisions were made. That’s the real issue. The players said so in their statement that they aren’t upset with Anderson as the hire but they’re upset with the process where one candidate was disqualified based on race and religion.
Also, we should be looking at the process of how the interviews and decisions were made. That’s the real issue. The players said so in their statement that they aren’t upset with Anderson as the hire but they’re upset with the process where one candidate was disqualified based on race and religion.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I know. Just going to show how words can be so easily twisted to mean something else that wasn't intended. Sorry to have you be the victim of my wordsmithing.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:39 pmNo! It’s neither! That’s what I’m saying.stwinward wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:25 pmSo it's the racist bigots vs the misogynists now? Let's all calm down a bit and wait for facts.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pmBecause people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pmYou won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmWow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.
That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Frank was disqualified because he’s dramatically under qualified for the job. Reality is, he hasn’t been very good at the jobs he has had at USU. Religion and race have nothing to do with why he isn’t the HC right now. Anyone with two eyes can see that.PNW_Aggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 5:01 pmWhy are we litigating statements made by the players and Frank. Yet no one is litigating Cockett; is she infallible, without bias?
Also, we should be looking at the process of how the interviews and decisions were made. That’s the real issue. The players said so in their statement that they aren’t upset with Anderson as the hire but they’re upset with the process where one candidate was disqualified based on race and religion.
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Re: Frank's Statement
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pmThese players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.MrBiggle wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pmI don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Agreed.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pmThat I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pmThese players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
I think there was probably an opportunity for Frank to be a peacekeeper when the players told him they weren't going to play the game. I wish Frank would have gotten the team and President Cockett into a meeting, or in a zoom, and helped smooth things over. I haven't seen any reports of that. It seems we're beyond that now. That's disappointing.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I agree here BrownJeans. I’m most disappointed in Frank because I feel like he had the chance to show he can be a leader but didn’t. My reasoning is this, if Frank was a leader then those players would have run out onto the field Saturday and done everything in their power to kick some Ram (I can't express myself without swearing). He didn’t, they didn’t and that’s disappointing.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 5:26 pmAgreed.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pmThat I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pmThese players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
I think there was probably an opportunity for Frank to be a peacekeeper when the players told him they weren't going to play the game. I wish Frank would have gotten the team and President Cockett into a meeting, or in a zoom, and helped smooth things over. I haven't seen any reports of that. It seems we're beyond that now. That's disappointing.
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Re: Frank's Statement
And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.
Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Yep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pmOh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pmHoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pmMost likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pmThe Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.
None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.
At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Great post... love the qualifier on discrimination before suggesting your prejudice for those below say the age of 40. I really enjoyed this post!Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:00 pmThis is my stance as well. Discrimination exists at all schools, large businesses, schools, communities etc. Frank has been an employee for a long time and has been given the job of interim head coach twice. Does discrimination exist at USU, for sure it does in some aspects. that being said, Frank was not getting the head coach job because he is not as qualified as Blake Anderson. It is not even close. I would say that part of the reason JH and Cockett wanted someone else is they wanted a new culture on the team. That culture has obviously went down the last few years and we desperately need a fresh start.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millenials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct acadamia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I'll support BrownJeans on this... looking at several experiences (this, African American history class, kneeling on fields and some others) and the majority of folks and especially those outspoken in this thread come down on the side of the establishment (stopping short of saying white although that might fit too?) and telling people to shut up. I love USU and the experience I had there but wish that that (assuming this board is representative) the USU population would be more open minded and more experienced as I think that would provide some additional empathy.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmWow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
In this case its way too early and none of us have enough information to grab pitch forks for Frank or President Crockett. Let's relax and watch this play out and hope that justice is delivered.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.
Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I'm going to be completely honest here, even to my own detriment.
I believe myself to be an honest person. I work hard, I'm nice to people, etc.
If I had the opportunity to chase the money from a federal civil rights lawsuit (or a settlement from one) I would do it. And if you're honest with yourself, you would too. I wouldn't lie, but if there was gray area, I'd chase that money. How nice would it be to pay your house off and more at 38 years old?
I believe myself to be an honest person. I work hard, I'm nice to people, etc.
If I had the opportunity to chase the money from a federal civil rights lawsuit (or a settlement from one) I would do it. And if you're honest with yourself, you would too. I wouldn't lie, but if there was gray area, I'd chase that money. How nice would it be to pay your house off and more at 38 years old?
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Re: Frank's Statement
You are damn right he is showing his character. And you are showing yours. I will take Frank all day long over a piece of s*** like you.2004AG wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 6:31 pmFrank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.
Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
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Last edited by MWCFAN12 on December 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Thanks for the support, but rather than justice, can we get people express remorse and forgiveness and try to understand each other better going forward?
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Re: Frank's Statement
He won't get a penny. How has the school damaged him?3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pmYep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pmOh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pmHoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pmMost likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pmThe Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.
None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.
At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I agree, I would imagine this will get settled out of court in fairly quick manner. The last the university and program need is to have a long drawn litigation. Time to move and be the best we can be going forward.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmAggie84025 wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:49 pmDoes the university carry insurance for these wrongful type lawsuits? i mean ultimately it is the taxpayer, but I would guess you would carry insurance for these type of events.BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:22 pmYeah, Frank certainly has some powerful leverage. I wonder what kind of policy limits the school has for this kind of thing?ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:19 pmI don’t do this type of work (I do defense side med mal and personal injury), so won’t speculate about valuation. My guess? the settlement would be for an amount within whatever the policy limits are and would come very quickly (perhaps in response to a demand letter and before a lawsuit is even filed). Any ambiguity about what happened weighs towards settlement. It seems unlikely to me the case would ever get to the point where players are being deposed.Empire of Dirt wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:02 pmBoard Lawyers...
So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.
What does a settlement look like?
Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?
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The biggest reason is the effect of an ongoing discrimination lawsuit premised on alleged discrimination by the University president would be astronomically bad for the University and football program.
In the private sector, you’d have an EPL policy to cover something like this. I guess I am not sure how a public university like USU insures itself against this type of risk. It’s hard to imagine that the University wouldn’t have coverage like this considering the number of employees it has.
As much as the allegations lack credibility to me personally, I wouldn’t exactly call this a wrongful or frivolous lawsuit based on what we know now. There’s just a lot of ambiguity. If I were a plaintiff’s lawyer this would seem like a great chance to get in and make quick buck on a settlement, because the University is going to have strong PR reasons to want to make this just go away.
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Re: Frank's Statement
This is what frustrates me the most. The players talk of discrimination and then want to go to bat for the person that has been here 10 of the last 12 years with many of those as the assistant head coach. Has there been discrimination at USU, I would say absolutely which program does not have some of it. Not saying it is right, but just the reality and we need to be better. What has Frank done to squash this discrimination and bring it to light? The players want things to be better, but then want to play for someone that has fostered some of this discrimination. That seems absurd to me.AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pmNow my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
Maile wants to be the head coach, but then is concerned about the discrimination against his polynesian culture and religion? If things are as bad as they are being portrayed why would anyone of diversity of color or religion ever want to be at USU.
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Re: Frank's Statement
One thing that’s relevant here that we all know to be true is that the reason Frank was not hired had nothing to do with him being Polynesian and LDS.
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Re: Frank's Statement
If Frank proves even $1 in actual damages, I am fairly certain the school would be paying his attorneys fees.El Sapo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 7:00 pmHe won't get a penny. How has the school damaged him?3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pmYep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pmOh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pmHoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pmMost likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pmThe Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.
None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.
At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
There are also categories of damages available to a Title VII claimant aside from economic damages. And I will leave it at that. There are many reasons to think any claim would be settled pretty quickly but for nowhere near the amounts discussed.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Which would make an anti-Poly or anti-Mormon comment by Cockett especially stupid. I am not a Maile fan in the slighest. He isn't a good coach and I'm glad he didn't get the job, but it doesn't mean she didn't say something stupid that came off as discriminatory in the meeting. Hopefully the specifics will come out.Roy McAvoy wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 7:17 pmOne thing that’s relevant here that we all know to be true is that the reason Frank was not hired had nothing to do with him being Polynesian and LDS.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I can't understand how Cockett's statement to the players (if damaging) extends to Frank. Sure she was talking about Frank, but the school hiring Anderson isn't discrimination against Frank. So it's just words (worst case) and no furtherance.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 7:21 pmIf Frank proves even $1 in actual damages, I am fairly certain the school would be paying his attorneys fees.El Sapo wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 7:00 pmHe won't get a penny. How has the school damaged him?3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pmYep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pmOh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pmHoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pmMost likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.Naked Bull Rider wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pmThe Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.
None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.
At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
There are also categories of damages available to a Title VII claimant aside from economic damages. And I will leave it at that. There are many reasons to think any claim would be settled pretty quickly but for nowhere near the amounts discussed.
I've been threatened in a similar fashion (pick me or I'll sue) and my attorney actually laughed at my concern.
When this is ova, I think the players will be the one's getting workplace discrimination training
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Re: Frank's Statement
Wouldn’t someone have to speculate that Frank has been a problem and caused division even with Gary’s hiring... could it be that this has been a serious problem with Gary too?
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Re: Frank's Statement
I believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.
What else ya got?
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Re: Frank's Statement
What else you got? (See bold red above.)Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pmI believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.
What else ya got?
Are you upset. If so, why?
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Re: Frank's Statement
Im upset that they are bringing allegations serious enough to warrant not playing a game without being specific enough for anyone to understand or evaluate-brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 8:16 pmWhat else you got? (See bold red above.)Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pmI believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.
What else ya got?
Are you upset. If so, why?
Im upset that there is a sense of entitlement for a coach that was in the drivers seat, failed and is lighting a match on his way out.
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