The Jump it takes to reach...

BigBlueBlood · Post by **BigBlueBlood** » December 11th, 2020, 4:45 pm

a conclusion just keeps getting shorter and shorter. How can anyone with any semblance of rationality call for Hartwell and Cockett's heads inside of 30 minutes after the players released their statement? Were any of these people the call when this allegedly took place? The mere accusation is enough now? The players' statement says that allegedly after voicing their support for Maile, who I really like, by the way, Hartwell and Cockett said their "primary concern was his religious and cultural background." Really? Does that sound at all likely? Does it seem plausible that their main reason for not hiring him was because he's LDS and Polynesian, and that they'd voice that opinion even if it was true? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but does anyone have enough energy anymore to even try thinking critically? If it happened and that's what they meant, they'll be shown the door and should be, but holy cow, doesn't any of this seem remotely fishy? At least they should get the benefit of the doubt, or of an investigation before they are cast aside and the players are applauded for taking a stand and being brave. Ugh!

Sl7vk · Post by **Sl7vk** » December 11th, 2020, 4:49 pm

Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation doesn't seem to be that Hartwell and Cockett made disturbing allegations.

To me, the simplest explanation is that Frank did not handle this well, and the players rushed to his defense in the type of way you'd expect 18-22 year old's to do.

That's where I go back to leadership, and in all likelihood this being on Frank.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » December 11th, 2020, 4:54 pm

BigBlueBlood wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 4:45 pm
a conclusion just keeps getting shorter and shorter. How can anyone with any semblance of rationality call for Hartwell and Cockett's heads inside of 30 minutes after the players released their statement? Were any of these people the call when this allegedly took place? The mere accusation is enough now? The players' statement says that allegedly after voicing their support for Maile, who I really like, by the way, Hartwell and Cockett said their "primary concern was his religious and cultural background." Really? Does that sound at all likely? Does it seem plausible that their main reason for not hiring him was because he's LDS and Polynesian, and that they'd voice that opinion even if it was true? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but does anyone have enough energy anymore to even try thinking critically? If it happened and that's what they meant, they'll be shown the door and should be, but holy cow, doesn't any of this seem remotely fishy? At least they should get the benefit of the doubt, or of an investigation before they are cast aside and the players are applauded for taking a stand and being brave. Ugh!

No one even knows exactly what was said and in what context and here we are? I am an attorney. In my job if You want to ask for drastic action you bring irrefutable evidence. Otherwise you should be laughed out of the room.

Brushowl · Post by **Brushowl** » December 11th, 2020, 4:55 pm

Makes sense. Young players like young Army recruits make mistakes by shi++ing in their own mess kit.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » December 11th, 2020, 5:07 pm

Is anyone doing that? People are awaiting more evidence and will make judgements when they get it.

NorCalAggie · Post by **NorCalAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 5:08 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:07 pm
Is anyone doing that? People are awaiting more evidence and will make judgements when they get it.

Yes they absolutely are. Just take a look at Twitter.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » December 11th, 2020, 5:09 pm

NorCalAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:08 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:07 pm
Is anyone doing that? People are awaiting more evidence and will make judgements when they get it.
Yes they absolutely are. Just take a look at Twitter.

Well twitter is hot garbage. I meant on here.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » December 11th, 2020, 5:11 pm

I am withholding judgment.

But I am leaning towards there being a ZERO percent chance the players allegations have even a ring of truth.

BigBlueBlood · Post by **BigBlueBlood** » December 11th, 2020, 5:14 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:09 pm

NorCalAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:08 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:07 pm
Is anyone doing that? People are awaiting more evidence and will make judgements when they get it.
Yes they absolutely are. Just take a look at Twitter.
Well twitter is hot garbage. I meant on here.

It's not just Twitter. It's 1280 The Zone, it's KSL.com, etc. I was not directing my comments at this Board per se. Most here are waiting for more information. I should have been clearer about the focus of my comments/frustrations.

bpd · Post by **bpd** » December 11th, 2020, 5:15 pm

Twitter and this board are the same thing. A lot of people with no idea, jumping to conclusions.

The reality of the situation is nobody knows what happened and jumping to conclusions on either side is pointless. Nobody knows what happened so don't pretend too.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » December 11th, 2020, 5:19 pm

BigBlueBlood wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:14 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:09 pm

NorCalAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:08 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:07 pm
Is anyone doing that? People are awaiting more evidence and will make judgements when they get it.
Yes they absolutely are. Just take a look at Twitter.
Well twitter is hot garbage. I meant on here.
It's not just Twitter. It's 1280 The Zone, it's KSL.com, etc. I was not directing my comments at this Board per se. Most here are waiting for more information. I should have been clearer about the focus of my comments/frustrations.

THe more clicks, the more money for advertising. THose are for profit institutions. They are just being fed what has been reported. I am anxiously awaiting statements by Cockett and Hartwell to clarify their side of the story.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » December 11th, 2020, 5:20 pm

bpd wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:15 pm
Twitter and this board are the same thing. A lot of people with no idea, jumping to conclusions.

The reality of the situation is nobody knows what happened and jumping to conclusions on either side is pointless. Nobody knows what happened so don't pretend too.

This board has many people I disagree with on many things, but is anyone on here really going overboard against Crockett and Hartwell yet? I don't see it yet. I see some people having a fear this will seriously damage the program which could be true.

I will wait for more information to make a judgement on Crockett.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » December 11th, 2020, 5:21 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:20 pm

bpd wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:15 pm
Twitter and this board are the same thing. A lot of people with no idea, jumping to conclusions.

The reality of the situation is nobody knows what happened and jumping to conclusions on either side is pointless. Nobody knows what happened so don't pretend too.
This board has many people I disagree with on many things, but is anyone on here really going overboard against Crockett and Hartwell yet? I don't see it yet. I see some people having a fear this will seriously damage the program which could be true.

I will wait for more information to make a judgement on Crockett.

I agree, we are just wanting to hear both sides of the story.

Smokin Joe · Post by **Smokin Joe** » December 11th, 2020, 5:25 pm

It is positively and absolutely risible to think that any significant number of players care enough about the LDS faith to be affronted by anything Cockett may have said (if she said anything at all about LDS) to the point of planting their flag on that hill to justify a decision not to play football. Anything Cockett or our AD said or didn't say is a mere fig-leaf to justify a temper-tantrum by some kids, a large number of whom apparently believe they have the right to dictate who the university hires to coach them.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 5:27 pm

The difference is, here on the board we hope it's not true and was just blown out of proportion. On Twitter and in the media they hope it IS true because it'll make for more likes, shares and clicks.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » December 11th, 2020, 5:28 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:27 pm
The difference is, here on the board we hope it's not true and was just blown out of proportion. On Twitter and in the media they hope it IS true because it'll make for more likes, shares and clicks.

So true

CastIronAggie · Post by **CastIronAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 5:29 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:27 pm
The difference is, here on the board we hope it's not true and was just blown out of proportion. On Twitter and in the media they hope it IS true because it'll make for more likes, shares and clicks.

I would add that they don't really care if it's true or not as long as they can get enough people to repeat it.

bpd · Post by **bpd** » December 11th, 2020, 5:49 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:27 pm
The difference is, here on the board we hope it's not true and was just blown out of proportion. On Twitter and in the media they hope it IS true because it'll make for more likes, shares and clicks.

Exactly... and the common theme is neither one has any idea, the board or twitter.

rAggie · Post by **rAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 5:55 pm

The thing that doesn't smell right to me about all of this is how coordinated the hit was. A professionally written statement, released to a single media outlet, at the moment when Hartwell and maybe Cockett were on a plane and unable to immediately respond.

I've never seen a "statement from players" be anything more than a screen shot of the notes app on their phone.

I can't help but speculate as to whether there was someone like an assistant coach fanning the flames.

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 6:07 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:25 pm
It is positively and absolutely risible to think that any significant number of players care enough about the LDS faith to be affronted by anything Cockett may have said (if she said anything at all about LDS) to the point of planting their flag on that hill to justify a decision not to play football. Anything Cockett or our AD said or didn't say is a mere fig-leaf to justify a temper-tantrum by some kids, a large number of whom apparently believe they have the right to dictate who the university hires to coach them.

Bingo!

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm

Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.

stang · Post by **stang** » December 11th, 2020, 6:13 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.

You seem to have your mind entirely made up that this is a big commotion over nothing and that there's no way Cockett could have actually said something warranting this reaction. So I'm curious - what is it going to take for you to go the other way on this. If there's proof that comes out of her saying something racially charged, will you flip and take the side of the players, or will you make excuses for the administration and say that it was just a slip of the tongue and she doesn't mean it and she has an impeccable track record?

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 6:14 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.

Editorial choice

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 6:15 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:13 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.
You seem to have your mind entirely made up that this is a big commotion over nothing and that there's no way Cockett could have actually said something warranting this reaction. So I'm curious - what is it going to take for you to go the other way on this. If there's proof that comes out of her saying something racially charged, will you flip and take the side of the players, or will you make excuses for the administration and say that it was just a slip of the tongue and she doesn't mean it and she has an impeccable track record?

Ev
I
Dence
Would be nice

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 6:16 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:13 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.
You seem to have your mind entirely made up that this is a big commotion over nothing and that there's no way Cockett could have actually said something warranting this reaction. So I'm curious - what is it going to take for you to go the other way on this. If there's proof that comes out of her saying something racially charged, will you flip and take the side of the players, or will you make excuses for the administration and say that it was just a slip of the tongue and she doesn't mean it and she has an impeccable track record?

Nope, I've said many times that if she said something inappropriate an appropriate response should occur, possibly as far as demanding her resignation.

What I'm not ok with is Gordon Monson going on and on about "how dare someone in that position make comments like that" without even providing lip service to the fact that it's possible there is another side of the story.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » December 11th, 2020, 6:16 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:13 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.
You seem to have your mind entirely made up that this is a big commotion over nothing and that there's no way Cockett could have actually said something warranting this reaction. So I'm curious - what is it going to take for you to go the other way on this. If there's proof that comes out of her saying something racially charged, will you flip and take the side of the players, or will you make excuses for the administration and say that it was just a slip of the tongue and she doesn't mean it and she has an impeccable track record?

How is it that with all this commotion then not one player or anyone privy to that call has not stated exactly what was said and it what context in the past 72 hours. I think that is where the skepticism comes from. They should have made this public with irrefutable before launching a nuclear war.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » December 11th, 2020, 6:17 pm

hickaggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:16 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:13 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm
Meanwhile, 1280 the Zone is 100% all in on the players being absolutely and completely accurate. Not a single brain cell given to the bare possibility that there might have been a misunderstanding or anything other than Cockett going full Governor Boggs.
You seem to have your mind entirely made up that this is a big commotion over nothing and that there's no way Cockett could have actually said something warranting this reaction. So I'm curious - what is it going to take for you to go the other way on this. If there's proof that comes out of her saying something racially charged, will you flip and take the side of the players, or will you make excuses for the administration and say that it was just a slip of the tongue and she doesn't mean it and she has an impeccable track record?
How is it that with all this commotion then, not one player or anyone privy to that call has not stated exactly what was said and it what context in the past 72 hours. I think that is where the skepticism comes from. They should have made this public with irrefutable evidence before launching a nuclear war.

sockpuppet · Post by **sockpuppet** » December 11th, 2020, 6:17 pm

'Tis the season for poorly executed and failed coups.

Donman · Post by **Donman** » December 11th, 2020, 6:18 pm

1280 is awful when it comes to politics.

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Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » December 11th, 2020, 6:21 pm

Wouldn't every single player on that Zoom would have immediately tweeted what was said during the call if it was truly egregious?

Like this was just hinted at for 72 hours then timed for release when we have announced a new hire and they are traveling back from Arkansas and can't effectively respond?

I don't doubt she may have said something dumb or clumsy but I would be shocked if someone in her job said something that any junior level HR person would know not to say in a public forum like that.

I am willing to be proven wrong, and if she did say something that bad she should suffer the consequences, but something isn't adding up on this one for me.

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » December 11th, 2020, 7:53 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 4:49 pm
Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation doesn't seem to be that Hartwell and Cockett made disturbing allegations.

To me, the simplest explanation is that Frank did not handle this well, and the players rushed to his defense in the type of way you'd expect 18-22 year old's to do.

That's where I go back to leadership, and in all likelihood this being on Frank.

That's your Occam's Razor? That's a complicated razor man.

Here's the razor: Ask yourself, would this be happen ing if we hired a coach like Brian Johnson or Marcus Freeman?

Events of the last year have heightened racial tensions. From the equipment manager situation, to the OL who left the team's tweets, to the national race issues. Our players are surrounded by white people who cannot relate and have been terrible at recognizing, and understanding the way many of the football players feel either are either dismissive of those feelings or flat oppose those feelings (much like many on this board).
Then, white leadership said something they thought was benign. Many on the team inferred this to be discriminatory. Then white leadership hires a new coach - another white guy. I mean, really?

No one should be surprised at this. The fuze for this situation was lit and has been burning to this situation. Everyone walked around ignoring it.

Smokin Joe · Post by **Smokin Joe** » December 11th, 2020, 7:56 pm

brownjeans wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:53 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 4:49 pm
Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation doesn't seem to be that Hartwell and Cockett made disturbing allegations.

To me, the simplest explanation is that Frank did not handle this well, and the players rushed to his defense in the type of way you'd expect 18-22 year old's to do.

That's where I go back to leadership, and in all likelihood this being on Frank.
That's your Occam's Razor? That's a complicated razor man.

Here's the razor: Ask yourself, would this be happen ing if we hired a coach like Brian Johnson or Marcus Freeman?

Events of the last year have heightened racial tensions. From the equipment manager situation, to the OL who left the team's tweets, to the national race issues. Our players are surrounded by white people who cannot relate and have been terrible at recognizing, and understanding the way many of the football players feel either are either dismissive of those feelings or flat oppose those feelings (much like many on this board).
Then, white leadership said something they thought was benign. Many on the team inferred this to be discriminatory. Then white leadership hires a new coach - another white guy. I mean, really?

No one should be surprised at this. The fuze for this situation was lit and has been burning to this situation. Everyone walked around ignoring it.

So, the players are incapable of seeing anything but race? That's their problem and no one else's. How about taking a cue from MLK....judge someone by the content of their character, not their skin color.

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 8:04 pm

brownjeans wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:53 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 4:49 pm
Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation doesn't seem to be that Hartwell and Cockett made disturbing allegations.

To me, the simplest explanation is that Frank did not handle this well, and the players rushed to his defense in the type of way you'd expect 18-22 year old's to do.

That's where I go back to leadership, and in all likelihood this being on Frank.
That's your Occam's Razor? That's a complicated razor man.

Here's the razor: Ask yourself, would this be happen ing if we hired a coach like Brian Johnson or Marcus Freeman?

Events of the last year have heightened racial tensions. From the equipment manager situation, to the OL who left the team's tweets, to the national race issues. Our players are surrounded by white people who cannot relate and have been terrible at recognizing, and understanding the way many of the football players feel either are either dismissive of those feelings or flat oppose those feelings (much like many on this board).
Then, white leadership said something they thought was benign. Many on the team inferred this to be discriminatory. Then white leadership hires a new coach - another white guy. I mean, really?

No one should be surprised at this. The fuze for this situation was lit and has been burning to this situation. Everyone walked around ignoring it.

Sorry, Brownie. I'm fresh out of white guilt and can recognize attempts to manipulate. And bullying leaves me with a very sour stomach.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » December 11th, 2020, 8:06 pm

brownjeans wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:53 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 4:49 pm
Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation doesn't seem to be that Hartwell and Cockett made disturbing allegations.

To me, the simplest explanation is that Frank did not handle this well, and the players rushed to his defense in the type of way you'd expect 18-22 year old's to do.

That's where I go back to leadership, and in all likelihood this being on Frank.
That's your Occam's Razor? That's a complicated razor man.

Here's the razor: Ask yourself, would this be happen ing if we hired a coach like Brian Johnson or Marcus Freeman?

Events of the last year have heightened racial tensions. From the equipment manager situation, to the OL who left the team's tweets, to the national race issues. Our players are surrounded by white people who cannot relate and have been terrible at recognizing, and understanding the way many of the football players feel either are either dismissive of those feelings or flat oppose those feelings (much like many on this board).
Then, white leadership said something they thought was benign. Many on the team inferred this to be discriminatory. Then white leadership hires a new coach - another white guy. I mean, really?

No one should be surprised at this. The fuze for this situation was lit and has been burning to this situation. Everyone walked around ignoring it.

So we are supposed to consider race in a hire to appease the snowflakes. All because of two comments by an idiot and a young kid? This is where appeasement gets us. If a kid is concerned about the race of his coach he's the one looking at the world from a racist perspective. Not that its his fault. We've been pitching critical race theory since he was in kindergarten in contrast to the colorblind society progress of the previous 3 decades before that.

We have to stop appeasing and promoting a theory so destructive.

seabass · Post by **seabass** » December 11th, 2020, 8:08 pm

Smokin Joe wrote:It is positively and absolutely risible to think that any significant number of players care enough about the LDS faith to be affronted by anything Cockett may have said (if she said anything at all about LDS) to the point of planting their flag on that hill to justify a decision not to play football. Anything Cockett or our AD said or didn't say is a mere fig-leaf to justify a temper-tantrum by some kids, a large number of whom apparently believe they have the right to dictate who the university hires to coach them.

Perfectly said

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