Jay Hill and Smashmouth football

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » November 16th, 2020, 11:26 pm

One argument that came up in being against Jay Hill is that he plays smashmouth football which won't work here. But there is a reason that if you go to one of their home games against a peer Big Sky School, you will see them play smashmouth football. Because Jay has elevated their program to a point where they are favored against most Big Sky schools and are now in a position where the only way the will lose to the lower tier schools is if they turn it over alot giving them short fields, so they will play conservative, not take risks and not be creative against those teams cause they don't need to be. But he has also shown that while he likes to play smashmouth football when he can, he can also be aggressive and creative and take risks when he needs to against superior teams that there is a point of doing it. And sometimes the games you make it to just might be the cold November games where there is reason to be conservative cause of the weather.
Here is a breakdown.
1. In his first game against Arizona State, where the talent gap was so large that it didn't matter who Weber State's coach was, they threw 29 times. And even had a running back get 128 yards on only 16 carries. Also, in their second game against North Dakota State, they had 43 passing attempts. And then had games with 60 and 49 attempts. That shows he is willing to throw when they run isn't working. Also, he benched the quarterback that he started that season with in favor of another one who turned out to be an all Big Sky quarterback, So that shows he is willing to bench players that aren't cutting it giving others a chance, and recruit over people.
2. Now his second year, where he despite still not having the program there yet, hung tough with Oregon State GA(which was part of the reason I wanted him over GA) and showed we was willing to try to get back in the game throwing 36 times compared to only 16 rushing attempts. Also, against the same Southern Utah team that scared us, they threw five interceptions cause of desperation to get back in that game. I remember being interested in that game to give us an idea of how worried we should be about a repeat or worse the following season.
3. Anyone remember Dallin Leavitt's breakout interception against them when they came in 2016. That was a result of Weber desperately trying to get back in the game. Also, in their playoff game against Chattanooga(when they still weren't good enough to be favored in FCS playoff games) they threw 40 times showing a willingness to desperately try to get back in the game. They also had a game that season where they threw for over 400 yards against Southern Utah(a team admittedly not as good as the 2015 version)
4. 2017, his first year most of the guys were his, against Cal who has PAC 12 talent like he doesn't, they did throw for over 400 yards, outgaining them in yards and first downs, and were so close to completing a trick play half back pass back to the quarterback at the end, showing he was willing to do it. And the were devastated they lost, not happy with a moral victory. In their playoff loss to James Madison, a team that didn't just beat but killed BYU by proxy, they nearly won completing only 12 of 30 passes, but ran 30 times since the pass wasn't working.
5. 2018, they did have a creative game plan to jump on Utah 10-0 early, but were just overmatched. As for the rest of the year, they did run more than they threw, but were winning with smashmouth ball.
6. 2019, they hung tough with both San Diego State and Nevada. They did get shutout by San Diego State, but it wasn't cause of stubbornness about playing smash mouth football, as they did have 32 passing attempts compared to 19 rushing attempts. And they did throw against Nevada 22 times, just ran a little more. In their semi-final game against James Madison, they had 31 passing attempts against 19 rushing attempts.
7. But yeah, I did find some games against Portland State, UC Davis or Idaho State where there was a lopsided run to pass ratio, but again, Jay plays smashmouth ball with those teams cause he can.

swordsman1989 · Post by **swordsman1989** » November 17th, 2020, 3:02 am

I know it was 25 years ago, but I always remember the national championship game between Nebraska and Florida. I was living in northern Florida at the time, not far from Gainesville, and the general consensus among the Florida faithful was that there was no way Nebraska's old school power rushing offense could keep up with the Gators Fun N' Gun passing offense. That Fiesta Bowl was a sight to see, with Nebraska running up, down and every which way over Florida, humiliating both the Gators and all the so-called experts who thought power rushing attacks were ineffective and boring. If it could be effective, I'd love to see an old school smash mouth rushing attack.

Sl7vk · Post by **Sl7vk** » November 17th, 2020, 8:55 am

I would have no problem with Jay Hill as a hire.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » November 17th, 2020, 9:22 am

bwcrc · Post by **bwcrc** » November 17th, 2020, 9:53 am

I doubt most of us would be opposed to smash mouth football. But we currently lack the players on the roster to implement that type of style with much success. It would probably take 3-4 recruiting cycles to build up that type of roster. I question whether we would have the patience to let that happen or after a couple of terrible seasons would the plug be pulled, leaving us in greater limbo.

Madmartigan · Post by **Madmartigan** » November 17th, 2020, 9:57 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 9:53 am
I doubt most of us would be opposed to smash mouth football. But we currently lack the players on the roster to implement that type of style with much success. It would probably take 3-4 recruiting cycles to build up that type of roster. I question whether we would have the patience to let that happen or after a couple of terrible seasons would the plug be pulled, leaving us in greater limbo.

A common theme i've heard is that our OL is not good. They look pretty good in run blocking to me and it's a very young and deep group. I don't think it would take that long, we have the size up front already.

AGGIEinIOWA · Post by **AGGIEinIOWA** » November 17th, 2020, 10:28 am

Is it easier to recruit OL/RB talent or QB/WR talent to USU?
At the moment I'd say we have more OL/RB talent on the roster.
That being said, I don't see any reason we can't play good balanced and innovative brand of football. Boise and BYU have both established a physical brand of offense that is equally successful at running and passing. They are creative and balanced. Those are the teams that are the hardest to stop.

Tetonkatest · Post by **Tetonkatest** » November 17th, 2020, 11:14 am

I recall that BYU tried to do this NFL style power run game a few years ago, and copy Wisconsin when they had Ty Detmer.
Didn't work after Williams left for the NFL, and Detmer was eventually fired.

It's very hard to find good enough O-Line talent and a few NFL caliber RBs to run this style of offense. Bohl at Wyoming runs it to a certain degree, but they haven't had any special seasons with it.

I think USU needs to stick to running a spread offense. Jay Hill is a decent candidate, but there are a few guys out there that are intriguing.

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am

I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » November 17th, 2020, 11:20 am

swordsman1989 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 3:02 am
I know it was 25 years ago, but I always remember the national championship game between Nebraska and Florida. I was living in northern Florida at the time, not far from Gainesville, and the general consensus among the Florida faithful was that there was no way Nebraska's old school power rushing offense could keep up with the Gators Fun N' Gun passing offense. That Fiesta Bowl was a sight to see, with Nebraska running up, down and every which way over Florida, humiliating both the Gators and all the so-called experts who thought power rushing attacks were ineffective and boring. If it could be effective, I'd love to see an old school smash mouth rushing attack.

Florida fans might have thought that, but the 95 huskers were one of the greatest teams of all time. They blew out everyone all year.

oleblu111 · Post by **oleblu111** » November 17th, 2020, 11:21 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.

Jay Hill is at best a very long shot to coach at USU, if he does get the job that means John has struck out with several other people. I'm not saying that going another way is the right thing to do, but that is not the direction he wants to go.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » November 17th, 2020, 11:22 am

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:21 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.
Jay Hill is at best a very long shot to coach at USU, if he does get the job that means John has struck out with several other people. I'm not saying that going another way is the right thing to do, but that is not the direction he wants to go.

Matt Canada would be a good hire.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » November 17th, 2020, 11:23 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.

This is what I want as well. Just someone that is creative, innovative and is willing to try things to make it work. I don't think we need to box ourselves into we have to be a smash mouth, spread or hurry up offense. We should take a combination of all of those things at make it work.

Tetonkatest · Post by **Tetonkatest** » November 17th, 2020, 11:25 am

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:21 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.
Jay Hill is at best a very long shot to coach at USU, if he does get the job that means John has struck out with several other people. I'm not saying that going another way is the right thing to do, but that is not the direction he wants to go.

I think he is going to hire a coach from the Sun Belt. Someone with a proven record at this level.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » November 17th, 2020, 11:36 am

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:25 am

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:21 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.
Jay Hill is at best a very long shot to coach at USU, if he does get the job that means John has struck out with several other people. I'm not saying that going another way is the right thing to do, but that is not the direction he wants to go.
I think he is going to hire a coach from the Sun Belt. Someone with a proven record at this level.

That would make sense. If we could land billy Napier that would be a great hire.

Aggie19 · Post by **Aggie19** » November 17th, 2020, 11:54 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:36 am

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:25 am

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:21 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.
Jay Hill is at best a very long shot to coach at USU, if he does get the job that means John has struck out with several other people. I'm not saying that going another way is the right thing to do, but that is not the direction he wants to go.
I think he is going to hire a coach from the Sun Belt. Someone with a proven record at this level.
That would make sense. If we could land billy Napier that would be a great hire.

Napier is being mentioned as a possible replacement for South Carolina. Even if he doesn't go P5 this year, he headed there shortly, not sure we have a shot there.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports. ... 16879/Amp/

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » November 17th, 2020, 12:25 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:54 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:36 am

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:25 am

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:21 am

brownjeans wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 11:15 am
I'd like to see a creative, aggressive, offense. I'm not much for "system" offenses that constrain creativity. This can apply to the spread too - I thought Yost's offense lacked creativity at times. My favorite offense is one like Boise runs - they'll do anything and often do. I think a creative, aggressive offense is more fun to watch, and more fun to play. The last thing I want is a conservative, risk-managed offense. Even if it wins, it's boring.
If Jay Hill is willing to hire an OC that's a mad scientist and will give that OC his head, I'm cool with Jay Hill.
Jay Hill is at best a very long shot to coach at USU, if he does get the job that means John has struck out with several other people. I'm not saying that going another way is the right thing to do, but that is not the direction he wants to go.
I think he is going to hire a coach from the Sun Belt. Someone with a proven record at this level.
That would make sense. If we could land billy Napier that would be a great hire.
Napier is being mentioned as a possible replacement for South Carolina. Even if he doesn't go P5 this year, he headed there shortly, not sure we have a shot there.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports. ... 16879/Amp/

Probably not. The reality is we probably won't be hiring a current head coach unless it is someone at the lower level like Jay hill.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » November 17th, 2020, 3:25 pm

swordsman1989 wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 3:02 am
I know it was 25 years ago, but I always remember the national championship game between Nebraska and Florida. I was living in northern Florida at the time, not far from Gainesville, and the general consensus among the Florida faithful was that there was no way Nebraska's old school power rushing offense could keep up with the Gators Fun N' Gun passing offense. That Fiesta Bowl was a sight to see, with Nebraska running up, down and every which way over Florida, humiliating both the Gators and all the so-called experts who thought power rushing attacks were ineffective and boring. If it could be effective, I'd love to see an old school smash mouth rushing attack.

I had just moved to Florida earlier in the year and remember how physically dominating the Nebraska team was over UF. That game led to Spurrier hiring Bob Stoops as his DC (if I recall correctly). Even Spurrier knew he needed to be able to run the ball. His most successful teams were when they were balanced with Erict Rhett and Fred Taylor.

TheAKAggie · Post by **TheAKAggie** » November 17th, 2020, 6:48 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑
November 16th, 2020, 11:26 pm
One argument that came up in being against Jay Hill is that he plays smashmouth football which won't work here. But there is a reason that if you go to one of their home games against a peer Big Sky School, you will see them play smashmouth football. Because Jay has elevated their program to a point where they are favored against most Big Sky schools and are now in a position where the only way the will lose to the lower tier schools is if they turn it over alot giving them short fields, so they will play conservative, not take risks and not be creative against those teams cause they don't need to be. But he has also shown that while he likes to play smashmouth football when he can, he can also be aggressive and creative and take risks when he needs to against superior teams that there is a point of doing it. And sometimes the games you make it to just might be the cold November games where there is reason to be conservative cause of the weather.
Here is a breakdown.
1. In his first game against Arizona State, where the talent gap was so large that it didn't matter who Weber State's coach was, they threw 29 times. And even had a running back get 128 yards on only 16 carries. Also, in their second game against North Dakota State, they had 43 passing attempts. And then had games with 60 and 49 attempts. That shows he is willing to throw when they run isn't working. Also, he benched the quarterback that he started that season with in favor of another one who turned out to be an all Big Sky quarterback, So that shows he is willing to bench players that aren't cutting it giving others a chance, and recruit over people.
2. Now his second year, where he despite still not having the program there yet, hung tough with Oregon State GA(which was part of the reason I wanted him over GA) and showed we was willing to try to get back in the game throwing 36 times compared to only 16 rushing attempts. Also, against the same Southern Utah team that scared us, they threw five interceptions cause of desperation to get back in that game. I remember being interested in that game to give us an idea of how worried we should be about a repeat or worse the following season.
3. Anyone remember Dallin Leavitt's breakout interception against them when they came in 2016. That was a result of Weber desperately trying to get back in the game. Also, in their playoff game against Chattanooga(when they still weren't good enough to be favored in FCS playoff games) they threw 40 times showing a willingness to desperately try to get back in the game. They also had a game that season where they threw for over 400 yards against Southern Utah(a team admittedly not as good as the 2015 version)
4. 2017, his first year most of the guys were his, against Cal who has PAC 12 talent like he doesn't, they did throw for over 400 yards, outgaining them in yards and first downs, and were so close to completing a trick play half back pass back to the quarterback at the end, showing he was willing to do it. And the were devastated they lost, not happy with a moral victory. In their playoff loss to James Madison, a team that didn't just beat but killed BYU by proxy, they nearly won completing only 12 of 30 passes, but ran 30 times since the pass wasn't working.
5. 2018, they did have a creative game plan to jump on Utah 10-0 early, but were just overmatched. As for the rest of the year, they did run more than they threw, but were winning with smashmouth ball.
6. 2019, they hung tough with both San Diego State and Nevada. They did get shutout by San Diego State, but it wasn't cause of stubbornness about playing smash mouth football, as they did have 32 passing attempts compared to 19 rushing attempts. And they did throw against Nevada 22 times, just ran a little more. In their semi-final game against James Madison, they had 31 passing attempts against 19 rushing attempts.
7. But yeah, I did find some games against Portland State, UC Davis or Idaho State where there was a lopsided run to pass ratio, but again, Jay plays smashmouth ball with those teams cause he can.

TL:DR
GameFAQs and Jay Hill were once at a Smashmouth concert and got into a fight while waiting for corndogs over All-Star being a regular single hit or a hit because it was on the Shrek soundtrack.

CrazyAg · Post by **CrazyAg** » November 17th, 2020, 10:12 pm

My opinion is smash mouth doesn't win in the MWC. Can't score enough to keep up. New Mexico tried it for what has turned out to be their most unsuccessful decade in their program's history probably. Air Force recently has thrown the ball all over the field against us. Have to spread it out and throw to take advantage of individual matchups and get it to your best athletes in space one on one. We need a system that goes 4 and 5 wide and puts up points.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » November 18th, 2020, 7:42 am

CrazyAg wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 10:12 pm
My opinion is smash mouth doesn't win in the MWC. Can't score enough to keep up. New Mexico tried it for what has turned out to be their most unsuccessful decade in their program's history probably. Air Force recently has thrown the ball all over the field against us. Have to spread it out and throw to take advantage of individual matchups and get it to your best athletes in space one on one. We need a system that goes 4 and 5 wide and puts up points.

SDSU and BSU. The teams that actually win the Mountain West year in and year out. Despite Boise's reputation as a gadget or passing school they are all about power run first and they run it like a business. SDSU runs my favorite offense to play in or play against with their I and lead backs. (They way God intended football to be played.) If you build for a great O-line and recruit good backs the passing game is wide open when you want it and you build a program over time that can survive mediocre QB when they inevitably come. I also think a program that focuses on creating a great O-line and strength program survives the inevitable coaching changes every 4-5 years.

You bring up New Mexico. There only sustained sucess in program history was playing Rocky Long ball. Do you think AFA would be more successful in the spread...lol.

When Gary was hired the first time I was skeptical of the hire because I didn't think USU could recruit the D or O lines to play the style of power football a D coordinatore wants. I was wrong. As long as you maintain a really good Poly pipeline and combine that with using older returned missionaries their is no reason that power shouldn't be the staple of the offense. Build like Boise using the unique recruiting opportunities USU has.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » November 18th, 2020, 7:43 am

hickaggie wrote: ↑
November 18th, 2020, 7:42 am

CrazyAg wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 10:12 pm
My opinion is smash mouth doesn't win in the MWC. Can't score enough to keep up. New Mexico tried it for what has turned out to be their most unsuccessful decade in their program's history probably. Air Force recently has thrown the ball all over the field against us. Have to spread it out and throw to take advantage of individual matchups and get it to your best athletes in space one on one. We need a system that goes 4 and 5 wide and puts up points.
SDSU and BSU? The teams that actually win the Mountain West year in and year out. Despite Boise's reputation as a gadget or passing school they are all about power run first and they run it like a business. SDSU runs my favorite offense to play in or play against with their I and lead backs. (They way God intended football to be played.) If you build for a great O-line and recruit good backs the passing game is wide open when you want it and you build a program over time that can survive mediocre QBs when they inevitably come. I also think a program that focuses on creating a great O-line and strength program survives the inevitable coaching changes every 4-5 years.

You bring up New Mexico. Their only sustained sucess in program history was playing Rocky Long ball. Do you think AFA would be more successful in the spread...lol.

When Gary was hired the first time I was skeptical of the hire because I didn't think USU could recruit the D or O lines to play the style of power football a D coordinatore wants. I was wrong. As long as you maintain a really good Poly pipeline and combine that with using older returned missionaries there is no reason that power shouldn't be the staple of the offense. Build like Boise using the unique recruiting opportunities USU has.

NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » November 18th, 2020, 8:41 am

hickaggie wrote: ↑
November 18th, 2020, 7:43 am

hickaggie wrote: ↑
November 18th, 2020, 7:42 am

CrazyAg wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 10:12 pm
My opinion is smash mouth doesn't win in the MWC. Can't score enough to keep up. New Mexico tried it for what has turned out to be their most unsuccessful decade in their program's history probably. Air Force recently has thrown the ball all over the field against us. Have to spread it out and throw to take advantage of individual matchups and get it to your best athletes in space one on one. We need a system that goes 4 and 5 wide and puts up points.
SDSU and BSU? The teams that actually win the Mountain West year in and year out. Despite Boise's reputation as a gadget or passing school they are all about power run first and they run it like a business. SDSU runs my favorite offense to play in or play against with their I and lead backs. (They way God intended football to be played.) If you build for a great O-line and recruit good backs the passing game is wide open when you want it and you build a program over time that can survive mediocre QBs when they inevitably come. I also think a program that focuses on creating a great O-line and strength program survives the inevitable coaching changes every 4-5 years.

You bring up New Mexico. Their only sustained sucess in program history was playing Rocky Long ball. Do you think AFA would be more successful in the spread...lol.

When Gary was hired the first time I was skeptical of the hire because I didn't think USU could recruit the D or O lines to play the style of power football a D coordinator wants. I was wrong. As long as you maintain a really good Poly pipeline and combine that with using older returned missionaries there is no reason that power shouldn't be the staple of the offense. Build like Boise using the unique recruiting opportunities USU has.

Well stated Hick.... I have no real idea who would be a good fit in Logan but I'm fairly certain our A D does. In this era of coaches having AGENTS I'm certain a fair amount of "Back Channel" searching is well under way. The coaching search, formal application process, reviewing and then interviewing protocol is generally in a league beyond our understanding. . I believe Hartwell will get the right Head Coach as he has proven his mettle over time.

Post by **GeoAg** » November 18th, 2020, 9:32 am

CrazyAg wrote: ↑
November 17th, 2020, 10:12 pm
My opinion is smash mouth doesn't win in the MWC. Can't score enough to keep up. New Mexico tried it for what has turned out to be their most unsuccessful decade in their program's history probably. Air Force recently has thrown the ball all over the field against us. Have to spread it out and throw to take advantage of individual matchups and get it to your best athletes in space one on one. We need a system that goes 4 and 5 wide and puts up points.

Option football, which has been UNM's offense for the majority of that unsuccessful decade, is not smash mouth IMO. Option football is trickery and deceit to avoid certain physical matchups you think you will lose. Smash mouth is saying we are going to kick your teeth in and win the physical matchup, not avoid it. Smash mouth to me is often I formation, double tight once in a while and even, heaven forbid, going under center.

Harcher · Post by **Harcher** » November 18th, 2020, 8:50 pm

Statistically getting athletic 300 pounders, is hard (like athletic 7ftrs I hoops). And you have to get multiple of them. So higher end programs, can get multiple athletic big guys. One minimally recruited skill player can blossom and change the program (j love).

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » November 19th, 2020, 1:11 pm

Harcher wrote: ↑
November 18th, 2020, 8:50 pm
Statistically getting athletic 300 pounders, is hard (like athletic 7ftrs I hoops). And you have to get multiple of them. So higher end programs, can get multiple athletic big guys. One minimally recruited skill player can blossom and change the program (j love).

You make a huge false assumption here. Yes finding some quality skill players is easier for lower tier programs than O-lineman. But whether you run the spread or the I or any other offense you are not going to have consistent success throughout a season without a quality offensive line and I would argue that its easier for a program to develop kids into run blockers than pass blockers. There is a certain level of athleticism and quickness in good pass blockers which get them recognized in high school by the bigger schools.

The non-bcs schools that are successful universally at competing for conference championships have experienced good o-lines whether that be the perennial powerhouses like Boise or the every 10 year teams like USU. Its no accident that the best USU teams also had the best O-lines we;ve had in 2012 and 2018.

USU has a unique niche advantage in comparison to many non-bcs programs with the polynesian and missionary connections. No matter what offense and defense the Aggies run with the new coach they will only be successful if they take the Gary 1.0 approach and use all of that including walkons willing to work to establish dominance up front.

Your multiple great skill players aren't worth anything if you suck up front.

Aggieiester · Post by **Aggieiester** » November 21st, 2020, 12:46 am

Here's the reality of the whole Jay Hill situation. How as an AD do you "win the press conference" when you fire a Kyle Whittingham/ Ron McBride protege and then turn around and hire a younger version with a similar background?

While I'm in the camp of "find me a better candidate than Jay Hill and I'll listen" I don't think the politics of this situation works for a Jay Hill hire.

Post by **GeoAg** » November 21st, 2020, 12:57 am

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 12:46 am
Here's the reality of the whole Jay Hill situation. How as an AD do you "win the press conference" when you fire a Kyle Whittingham/ Ron McBride protege and then turn around and hire a younger version with a similar background?

While I'm in the camp of "find me a better candidate than Jay Hill and I'll listen" I don't think the politics of this situation works for a Jay Hill hire.

I disagree. Hiring a candidate from a coaching tree with clear evidence of understanding how to win in this state is a win. 10 years ago GAs background was similar. Today, no one's background is similar to GAs. Hiring Jay Hill. Would be a win and I would celebrate it. That said, I don't expect it

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » November 21st, 2020, 7:36 am

GeoAg wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 12:57 am

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 12:46 am
Here's the reality of the whole Jay Hill situation. How as an AD do you "win the press conference" when you fire a Kyle Whittingham/ Ron McBride protege and then turn around and hire a younger version with a similar background?

While I'm in the camp of "find me a better candidate than Jay Hill and I'll listen" I don't think the politics of this situation works for a Jay Hill hire.
I disagree. Hiring a candidate from a coaching tree with clear evidence of understanding how to win in this state is a win. 10 years ago GAs background was similar. Today, no one's background is similar to GAs. Hiring Jay Hill. Would be a win and I would celebrate it. That said, I don't expect it

That is a good point. While Jay is similar to Gary 1.0 i think Jay has a stronger resume than gary 1.0. Rebuilding Weber into a winner was an awesome accomplishment. I trust John to hire the right guy, but i think the fanbase overall would be more than thrilled to have Jay as the coach if John goes that route.

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » November 21st, 2020, 8:28 am

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 12:46 am
Here's the reality of the whole Jay Hill situation. How as an AD do you "win the press conference" when you fire a Kyle Whittingham/ Ron McBride protege and then turn around and hire a younger version with a similar background?

While I'm in the camp of "find me a better candidate than Jay Hill and I'll listen" I don't think the politics of this situation works for a Jay Hill hire.

Gary 2.0's problem wasn't being a Kyle Whittingham/ Ron McBride protege, it was being an Oregon State reject and burned out from his failure there, when it was then exaggerated by fans how much of the problem was it being hard to win at Oregon State when Mike Riley was successful there.

That said, and I am one wanting Hill, there was one concern that came up in another thread. There are rumors that one coach, Dave Schramm is dividing the locker room cause the players don't like him and he's abusive, and that Fresno fans would believe it cause he was like that there, and that he was Jay Hill's OC at Weber State for two seasons, so we would have to hope one of the following is true:
1. Dave left CAUSE of having hard time getting along with Jay(and possible considering he left an OC job to not be the OC) and would for that reason NOT be retained by him.
2. Dave would treat the players better under Jay's watch and wouldn't get away with the kind of things he gets away with under the watch of Frank just being there on the interim and/or Gary.
3. Dave would be suitable as playing the role of bad cop while Jay plays the role of good cop.
4. Jay having money for better options than Dave while being more limited at Weber State.
5. John either discourages Jay from retaining Dave, or Jay chooses not to after being disturbed by finding out what has gone on with him and the players here, or maybe Jay dealt with firsthand the same issues with Dave and doesn't want him.

sapokama · Post by **sapokama** » November 21st, 2020, 7:42 pm

Nick Saban, Paul Bryant, Steve Spurrier, Woody Hayes.

You know what they all have in common? Their all worse football coaches than Jay Hill!

Okay, so I'm absolutely being facetious (sort of) but I'm not sure any one of them could have taken Weber from the dumpster fire that it was to the national power it has become.

I should preface this by stating that I am one of those unicorns who is both a Weber State Alum and Die Hard Wildcat Fan. Even more rare, I am openly proud of both of those things! But while my views are clearly biased, I do try to look outside of those biases (even though I may not always be successful).

Now, you all think that your program is in shambles, and for good reason, but you are lightyears ahead of where Weber State was when Jay Hill took over. I mean, during his first year, a 2 and 10 campaign, I wondered if he was the best football coach we'd ever had because we were losing with dignity! Seriously, we were San Jose St bad (this year excluded). This dude can flat out coach! His style of coaching makes games close and he wins most of them.

I know some of you are worried about taking an FCS coach. With the recent mediocrity of FCS hires at programs such as UNLV, WY, and Kansas State, that's completely understandable. But there is a big difference between those hires and if USU was to hire Jay Hill. All of the FCS coaches that went to those FBS programs came from programs that were historically elite FCS programs with elite athletic budgets for the FCS level. And while Weber does play in a prestigious FCS conference, it has one of the smallest athletic budgets of all the schools in the FCS. Heck, UVU has a higher athletic than Weber does without a football team! There is a big difference between Bohl going from NDSU to WY and Hill going from Weber to USU. NDSU's athletic budget is 2x the size of Weber's. Hill knows how to get high value out of the resources available. The coaches from the Montana's, Montana State's, James Madison's, and NDSU's of the world have not had to stretch their dollar even close to the same extent that Hill has. So when you think about comparing Hill to an FCS coach going to FBS, Jamey Chadwell is probably a better comparison. He came out of an FCS school with a budget much more comparable to Weber State's and went to a G5 school with a budget that is similar to NDSU's! Seems to be working out quite nicely for the Chanticleers.

Additionally, like you, Weber consider itself a basketball school first. I know, I know...this may be hard for some you to believe since Weber outright forgot to send any basketball players to Logan for last years match up...but we do. We might have been the only school in the country grateful that COVID-19 shut down the basketball season! My biggest fear wasn't getting sick, but rather that Randy Rahe would somehow weasel the team into some horrible postseason tournament so Weber could continue to get its (I can't express myself without swearing) kicked! But I digress. The point is, in addition to understanding the strange state of football in Utah, Hill also understands how to win at a basketball first school.

I have also read that some of you are concerned that smash mouth football would not work in the MWC. It's funny, I heard those same concerns about the Big Sky when Hill took over at Weber. The Big Sky is also a high scoring conference and people were worried that Weber wouldn't be able to score enough points to keep up. Hill's formula was simple, though. If you have a smothering defense that you can keep fresh by running clock on offense through smash mouth football, you can take teams that average 35+ points and only allow 15 points. Make the games close and win the close games.

Additionally, while many of you will disagree with me on this, the level of play at the Big Sky is much closer to the MWC than most of you would like to admit. Yes, the MWC is unequivocally better, but the gap between the two is more like the MWC to the PAC 12 (IMO the most crap P5 league of all) than the MWC to the Big Ten or SEC. There is no team in the Big Sky that would compete for the top of the league, but there are 3 to 4 who could be middle of the pack. Let's not forget two things:

1) Although U of Idaho did take a dip in 2017, their 2016 squad was 9-4 with a bowl win. They joined the Big Sky in 2018 with the idea that they would roll the conference because of their FBS talent but ended 3-5 in conference play...good for 10th place. I know, they were not part of the MWC, but they were on the same level as a lot of lower tier MWC teams.

2) The only reason Weber's games between SDSU and Nevada last year were close was because Weber had a below average QB. If Weber had a half decent QB (like Stefan Cantwell from the 2017 squad; the ACTUAL best football team in Weber's history), the Wildcats likely run away with both of those games. I believe Hill would get the right players in place for his scheme (not just through recruiting but also through player development), and the team would be highly competitive in the MWC.

With all of this said, I thought Hartwell was dumb to hire Andersen over Hill last time. If he passes on Hill again, I will be flabbergasted. Lots of teams can play an exciting brand of football, but few can be consistent winners. Hill is the type of coach that can make a team a consistent winner.

I have mixed feelings every time Hill's name comes up for a job. I want to see him be successful and will root for him wherever he goes (even if it is UU or BYU; albeit reluctantly), but I would also like him to retire as a Wildcat (Not Happening!). If I am going to lose him to an instate rival, I would certainly prefer it to be USU.

Here is hoping for the Hill family and your fanbase that Hartwell makes the right choice. And here's hoping for me and the Wildcat fanbase that he doesn't!

Sorry for the long post! All the best, Aggies Fans! Just like 2020, your football woes will pass!

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » November 21st, 2020, 7:58 pm

sapokama wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 7:42 pm
Nick Saban, Paul Bryant, Steve Spurrier, Woody Hayes.

You know what they all have in common? Their all worse football coaches than Jay Hill!

Okay, so I'm absolutely being facetious (sort of) but I'm not sure any one of them could have taken Weber from the dumpster fire that it was to the national power it has become.

I should preface this by stating that I am one of those unicorns who is both a Weber State Alum and Die Hard Wildcat Fan. Even more rare, I am openly proud of both of those things! But while my views are clearly biased, I do try to look outside of those biases (even though I may not always be successful).

Now, you all think that your program is in shambles, and for good reason, but you are lightyears ahead of where Weber State was when Jay Hill took over. I mean, during his first year, a 2 and 10 campaign, I wondered if he was the best football coach we'd ever had because we were losing with dignity! Seriously, we were San Jose St bad (this year excluded). This dude can flat out coach! His style of coaching makes games close and he wins most of them.

I know some of you are worried about taking an FCS coach. With the recent mediocrity of FCS hires at programs such as UNLV, WY, and Kansas State, that's completely understandable. But there is a big difference between those hires and if USU was to hire Jay Hill. All of the FCS coaches that went to those FBS programs came from programs that were historically elite FCS programs with elite athletic budgets for the FCS level. And while Weber does play in a prestigious FCS conference, it has one of the smallest athletic budgets of all the schools in the FCS. Heck, UVU has a higher athletic than Weber does without a football team! There is a big difference between Bohl going from NDSU to WY and Hill going from Weber to USU. NDSU's athletic budget is 2x the size of Weber's. Hill knows how to get high value out of the resources available. The coaches from the Montana's, Montana State's, James Madison's, and NDSU's of the world have not had to stretch their dollar even close to the same extent that Hill has. So when you think about comparing Hill to an FCS coach going to FBS, Jamey Chadwell is probably a better comparison. He came out of an FCS school with a budget much more comparable to Weber State's and went to a G5 school with a budget that is similar to NDSU's! Seems to be working out quite nicely for the Chanticleers.

Additionally, like you, Weber consider itself a basketball school first. I know, I know...this may be hard for some you to believe since Weber outright forgot to send any basketball players to Logan for last years match up...but we do. We might have been the only school in the country grateful that COVID-19 shut down the basketball season! My biggest fear wasn't getting sick, but rather that Randy Rahe would somehow weasel the team into some horrible postseason tournament so Weber could continue to get its (I can't express myself without swearing) kicked! But I digress. The point is, in addition to understanding the strange state of football in Utah, Hill also understands how to win at a basketball first school.

I have also read that some of you are concerned that smash mouth football would not work in the MWC. It's funny, I heard those same concerns about the Big Sky when Hill took over at Weber. The Big Sky is also a high scoring conference and people were worried that Weber wouldn't be able to score enough points to keep up. Hill's formula was simple, though. If you have a smothering defense that you can keep fresh by running clock on offense through smash mouth football, you can take teams that average 35+ points and only allow 15 points. Make the games close and win the close games.

Additionally, while many of you will disagree with me on this, the level of play at the Big Sky is much closer to the MWC than most of you would like to admit. Yes, the MWC is unequivocally better, but the gap between the two is more like the MWC to the PAC 12 (IMO the most crap P5 league of all) than the MWC to the Big Ten or SEC. There is no team in the Big Sky that would compete for the top of the league, but there are 3 to 4 who could be middle of the pack. Let's not forget two things:

1) Although U of Idaho did take a dip in 2017, their 2016 squad was 9-4 with a bowl win. They joined the Big Sky in 2018 with the idea that they would roll the conference because of their FBS talent but ended 3-5 in conference play...good for 10th place. I know, they were not part of the MWC, but they were on the same level as a lot of lower tier MWC teams.

2) The only reason Weber's games between SDSU and Nevada last year were close was because Weber had a below average QB. If Weber had a half decent QB (like Stefan Cantwell from the 2017 squad; the ACTUAL best football team in Weber's history), the Wildcats likely run away with both of those games. I believe Hill would get the right players in place for his scheme (not just through recruiting but also through player development), and the team would be highly competitive in the MWC.

With all of this said, I thought Hartwell was dumb to hire Andersen over Hill last time. If he passes on Hill again, I will be flabbergasted. Lots of teams can play an exciting brand of football, but few can be consistent winners. Hill is the type of coach that can make a team a consistent winner.

I have mixed feelings every time Hill's name comes up for a job. I want to see him be successful and will root for him wherever he goes (even if it is UU or BYU; albeit reluctantly), but I would also like him to retire as a Wildcat (Not Happening!). If I am going to lose him to an instate rival, I would certainly prefer it to be USU.

Here is hoping for the Hill family and your fanbase that Hartwell makes the right choice. And here's hoping for me and the Wildcat fanbase that he doesn't!

Sorry for the long post! All the best, Aggies Fans! Just like 2020, your football woes will pass!

Welcome to the board. Very informative post, I am not sure which way Hartwell goes and i think their are several candidates that can be successful. If that ends up being Hill, I will be excited. I just want the aggies to be successful, i don't care who the coach is as long as they run a clean program and win more games than they lose.

Aggie19 · Post by **Aggie19** » November 21st, 2020, 8:03 pm

sapokama wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 7:42 pm
Nick Saban, Paul Bryant, Steve Spurrier, Woody Hayes.
... .............

Sorry for the long post! All the best, Aggies Fans! Just like 2020, your football woes will pass!

Fantastic post! Thank you for taking the time to do that well thought out argument. I enjoyed reading it.

I like Hill a lot, there is a lot to like. His success at Weber is undeniable. I agree that there are similarities between our two programs. I like that he was a special teams coach. Those dudes have a lot of moving pieces to get straight, like a head coach. Seems to have translated ok at Weber. I also like that he's a local guy. Not that a coach has to be, but I like the extra investment in the community.

The one thing I hesitate on with Coach Hill is that I wish he had broader experience other that being at Utah and Weber.

All that said, I would be happy if Hill were hired. I'm not sure that's where we're headed though.

Again, great post! Thank you!

2004AG · Post by **2004AG** » November 21st, 2020, 10:08 pm

sapokama wrote:Nick Saban, Paul Bryant, Steve Spurrier, Woody Hayes.

You know what they all have in common? Their all worse football coaches than Jay Hill!

Okay, so I'm absolutely being facetious (sort of) but I'm not sure any one of them could have taken Weber from the dumpster fire that it was to the national power it has become.

I should preface this by stating that I am one of those unicorns who is both a Weber State Alum and Die Hard Wildcat Fan. Even more rare, I am openly proud of both of those things! But while my views are clearly biased, I do try to look outside of those biases (even though I may not always be successful).

Now, you all think that your program is in shambles, and for good reason, but you are lightyears ahead of where Weber State was when Jay Hill took over. I mean, during his first year, a 2 and 10 campaign, I wondered if he was the best football coach we'd ever had because we were losing with dignity! Seriously, we were San Jose St bad (this year excluded). This dude can flat out coach! His style of coaching makes games close and he wins most of them.

I know some of you are worried about taking an FCS coach. With the recent mediocrity of FCS hires at programs such as UNLV, WY, and Kansas State, that's completely understandable. But there is a big difference between those hires and if USU was to hire Jay Hill. All of the FCS coaches that went to those FBS programs came from programs that were historically elite FCS programs with elite athletic budgets for the FCS level. And while Weber does play in a prestigious FCS conference, it has one of the smallest athletic budgets of all the schools in the FCS. Heck, UVU has a higher athletic than Weber does without a football team! There is a big difference between Bohl going from NDSU to WY and Hill going from Weber to USU. NDSU's athletic budget is 2x the size of Weber's. Hill knows how to get high value out of the resources available. The coaches from the Montana's, Montana State's, James Madison's, and NDSU's of the world have not had to stretch their dollar even close to the same extent that Hill has. So when you think about comparing Hill to an FCS coach going to FBS, Jamey Chadwell is probably a better comparison. He came out of an FCS school with a budget much more comparable to Weber State's and went to a G5 school with a budget that is similar to NDSU's! Seems to be working out quite nicely for the Chanticleers.

Additionally, like you, Weber consider itself a basketball school first. I know, I know...this may be hard for some you to believe since Weber outright forgot to send any basketball players to Logan for last years match up...but we do. We might have been the only school in the country grateful that COVID-19 shut down the basketball season! My biggest fear wasn't getting sick, but rather that Randy Rahe would somehow weasel the team into some horrible postseason tournament so Weber could continue to get its (I can't express myself without swearing) kicked! But I digress. The point is, in addition to understanding the strange state of football in Utah, Hill also understands how to win at a basketball first school.

I have also read that some of you are concerned that smash mouth football would not work in the MWC. It's funny, I heard those same concerns about the Big Sky when Hill took over at Weber. The Big Sky is also a high scoring conference and people were worried that Weber wouldn't be able to score enough points to keep up. Hill's formula was simple, though. If you have a smothering defense that you can keep fresh by running clock on offense through smash mouth football, you can take teams that average 35+ points and only allow 15 points. Make the games close and win the close games.

Additionally, while many of you will disagree with me on this, the level of play at the Big Sky is much closer to the MWC than most of you would like to admit. Yes, the MWC is unequivocally better, but the gap between the two is more like the MWC to the PAC 12 (IMO the most crap P5 league of all) than the MWC to the Big Ten or SEC. There is no team in the Big Sky that would compete for the top of the league, but there are 3 to 4 who could be middle of the pack. Let's not forget two things:

1) Although U of Idaho did take a dip in 2017, their 2016 squad was 9-4 with a bowl win. They joined the Big Sky in 2018 with the idea that they would roll the conference because of their FBS talent but ended 3-5 in conference play...good for 10th place. I know, they were not part of the MWC, but they were on the same level as a lot of lower tier MWC teams.

2) The only reason Weber's games between SDSU and Nevada last year were close was because Weber had a below average QB. If Weber had a half decent QB (like Stefan Cantwell from the 2017 squad; the ACTUAL best football team in Weber's history), the Wildcats likely run away with both of those games. I believe Hill would get the right players in place for his scheme (not just through recruiting but also through player development), and the team would be highly competitive in the MWC.

With all of this said, I thought Hartwell was dumb to hire Andersen over Hill last time. If he passes on Hill again, I will be flabbergasted. Lots of teams can play an exciting brand of football, but few can be consistent winners. Hill is the type of coach that can make a team a consistent winner.

I have mixed feelings every time Hill's name comes up for a job. I want to see him be successful and will root for him wherever he goes (even if it is UU or BYU; albeit reluctantly), but I would also like him to retire as a Wildcat (Not Happening!). If I am going to lose him to an instate rival, I would certainly prefer it to be USU.

Here is hoping for the Hill family and your fanbase that Hartwell makes the right choice. And here's hoping for me and the Wildcat fanbase that he doesn't!

Sorry for the long post! All the best, Aggies Fans! Just like 2020, your football woes will pass!

Reports are that Hartwell doesn’t want Hill.

I think that’s a huge mistake based on the reasons you list.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sapokama · Post by **sapokama** » November 21st, 2020, 10:11 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
November 21st, 2020, 8:03 pm

The one thing I hesitate on with Coach Hill is that I wish he had broader experience other that being at Utah and Weber.

Well, he did play in the original XFL. That's experience that has to count for something...not sure what, but something

One last thought. Hill changed my perspective on something that I thought was unalterable. Since the early 2000's, I have just assumed Weber would lose every game while being pleasantly surprised when they actually won. It became easy to convince myself that Northern Colorado was somehow going to destroy a highly ranked Weber team, particularly after the really lean years in the early 2010's.

Now, though, I actually expect Weber to win. It's a crazy feeling and it has only taken Hill's entire tenure at Weber to get to this point! I'm am going to be sad when he leaves!

Thanks for the kind words, all!

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