What do you think of the Jazz draft?

Mr. Sneelock · Post by **Mr. Sneelock** » June 24th, 2011, 9:08 am

I actually really like it. I came around on Kanter quite a bit over the past few weeks. I think he has a chance to be pretty good. There is a lot of speculation that had he been eligible to play at Kentucky he would have been the No. 1 overall pick. Really crafty around the basket, and a great offensive big. He is also really big, and in great shape. 6-11 260 with 5% body fat. He plays a lot like Al Horford. An even better comparison might be Kevin Love without the 3 point shot. Best former Jazzman comparison: a bigger, more athletic version of Carlos Boozer.

I also really like Alec Burks. He has a pretty good chance to be a Brandon Roy type player, or a poor man's Paul Pierce. I think his worst case scenario is Caron Butler. He is really smooth, and can handle the ball. Gets to the free throw line a lot. Best former Jazzman comparison: A better, but slightly less athletic Ronnie Brewer.

Post by **treesap32** » June 24th, 2011, 9:11 am

I liked the draft. I would've rather had D-Will 2.0 and Kemba, but since they weren't available i was happy with Kanter / Burks. I would've made the exact same selections with who was left on the table.

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » June 24th, 2011, 9:14 am

I'm happy with it. Especially not having Jimmer come here, I can't stand the media frenzy that comes with him. Thompson would have been a better pure shooting guard, but if Horny can work his magic on Burks, I think we'll see a more complete player there in the long run. Besides, that mid-range game has been severely lacking for the Jazz as well as someone who will get to the basket or the foul line and I think Burks excels in those areas.
Kanter is the type of guy you really have to take a chance on. You can't teach height. And you definitely can't teach height with agility like Kanter's. I think this does mean we'll see one of Millsap, Jefferson, or Okur traded sometime this year, but I'm okay with that. I really like the idea of Kanter and Favors playing together in the future and giving us some length and aggression in the post.

aggiesdotcom · Post by **aggiesdotcom** » June 24th, 2011, 9:16 am

You know it's a weak draft when 4 of the top 7 picks are Euro's. Bottom line is there were no guaranteed all-stars in this draft so you just hope you find that one diamond in the rough from picks 7-15. Kanter shows that the Jazz probably have no intention of re-signing Okur after this year. With Okur in a contract year, it could be a good season for him and for Kanter to learn from him. Team Turkey!

Post by **treesap32** » June 24th, 2011, 9:25 am

I have serious doubts that Okur will ever play again. What a shame too... I really like Memo. The Achilles injury really just killed him.

Mr. Sneelock · Post by **Mr. Sneelock** » June 24th, 2011, 9:41 am

I think Okur will play again, but probably at a much lower level. He definitely has trade value as an expiring contract.

Just thinking out loud here: I think Millsap is the odd man out. He is likely to want to start, but he won't start in this rotation. Also, his contract is very reasonable, making him easy to trade and get some good assets in return. You hate to give up a guy like Millsap, but I think you have to hand the starting PF reins to Favors. Of course, it is very possible that the Jazz don't make any moves, and they just let Okur expire at the end of this year. As long as Millsap is OK coming off the bench and you re-sign AK for a reasonable amount, you could have a very good front court rotation that looks something like this:

SF: Hayward/AK
PF: Favors/Millsap/Okur
C: Jefferson/Kanter/Okur

cbingham · Post by **cbingham** » June 24th, 2011, 9:53 am

As a non-Jazz fan I was hoping the Jimmer would go to the Jazz because then Cougar fan would be oft reminded of him being a bust...

As a non-biased non-Jazz fan I think that Kanter is a smart pick... I think he has a greater likelihood of being willing to play in Utah longer-term than do most of the other high lottery picks who come from US urban areas.

Post by **aggies22** » June 24th, 2011, 10:18 am

Charles Barkley just said on the Dan Patrick show that he felt that Kanter was actually the most complete player in the draft and that the Jazz actually got the #1 pick with the #3 pick. He said that he didn't think that Irving has the speed and Williams isn't quick enough to be a 3 or big enough to be a 4.

N3lyak · Post by **N3lyak** » June 24th, 2011, 10:31 am

I like this draft for the Jazz. Kanter is a good pick, and may very well end up being the best player in this draft. I just hope he isn't Darko all over again. And Burks is a solid player. He is aggressive and gets to the basket, something missing on the Jazz after Williams was traded. Depending on the draft board you looked at he was either the best or second best shooting guard in this draft. So the Jazz got the best center, and the best/second best shooting guard in the draft. I'd say that's pretty good.

Now they need to flip Millsap, Jefferson, and/or Okur's contracts for a veteran point guard or shooting guard. Iguodala and Granger come to mind, though we may not be able to get either of them. The Jazz have a solid young group of guys in Kanter, Burks, Favors, and Hayward. It may take a couple of years, but they are headed in the right direction.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » June 24th, 2011, 11:24 am

aggies22 wrote:Charles Barkley just said on the Dan Patrick show that he felt that Kanter was actually the most complete player in the draft and that the Jazz actually got the #1 pick with the #3 pick. He said that he didn't think that Irving has the speed and Williams isn't quick enough to be a 3 or big enough to be a 4.

That's funny coming from Charles Barkley.

Post by **aggies22** » June 24th, 2011, 11:30 am

NVAggie wrote:
aggies22 wrote:Charles Barkley just said on the Dan Patrick show that he felt that Kanter was actually the most complete player in the draft and that the Jazz actually got the #1 pick with the #3 pick. He said that he didn't think that Irving has the speed and Williams isn't quick enough to be a 3 or big enough to be a 4.
That's funny coming from Charles Barkley.

I didn't realize it until you said it, but yeah that is pretty funny!

Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » June 24th, 2011, 12:56 pm

The draft was great! My Wizards may be an exciting team in the near future...

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » June 24th, 2011, 1:12 pm

I think Burks can be really, really good. I don't think he's that bad of a shooter, I just think he needs to work on it. He shot very well from mid-range and shot 83% on his FT. Horney will help him get the outside shot. Playing with teammates that don't suck; he should find himself open a lot more often. He loves contact, has a good handle, has a lot of different shots. He'll be good. The only thing I'd knock him on is that I'm not sure he's a killer. He's going to be good. I'm glad the Jazz got him.

UtahStizzle · Post by **UtahStizzle** » June 26th, 2011, 9:51 am

The Jazz acquired good players, but they didn't seem like needs for the team. They now have a very crowded front court with Millsap, Al Jefferson, Favors, Okur, and now Kanter. And then they grab another guard who can't shoot well.

Now if they go out and deal some of these players it could work out well, but for now they have a lot of talent but not much of a team.

ratofallaggies · Post by **ratofallaggies** » June 26th, 2011, 9:57 am

Maybe their plan the whole time was to build around a big man and trade one of the established players to get a shooter? That would make sense. I think they could trade Big Al and get a very good shooter that is already established in the league

kofdog · Post by **kofdog** » June 26th, 2011, 2:30 pm

Or think about if they get Millsap to buy into playing the three. Could make for an interesting line up (putting Hayward at the 2)...

Seldomseensmith · Post by **Seldomseensmith** » June 26th, 2011, 2:42 pm

I don't watch a lot of Jazz basketball, but I think they did pretty well in the draft. Sometimes a team has to start from scratch. I'd like to see the Jazz get rid of Kirilenko, Okur, and Jefferson. Kirilenko and Okur are nearing the ends of their careers. Jefferson is a great offensive player, but from what I've seen of him, he's surly, seems hard to be around, doesn't play much defense. CJ Miles and Raja Bell need to go as well. I'd like to see them package some, or all of those guys and get a high draft pick, a very good PG, or a shooter. The Jazz should never have let Wes Mathews go, but too late now. I think Burks will be fine. People say that he can't shoot from outside, which seems to be true. But maybe the Jazz didn't draft him for that reason. Maybe they drafted him because he can get to the basket, which can be equally important.

Post by **treesap32** » June 26th, 2011, 2:58 pm

kofdog wrote:Or think about if they get Millsap to buy into playing the three. Could make for an interesting line up (putting Hayward at the 2)...

I'd distribute the minutes like this:

1 - Harris (32) / Burks (8) / Watson/Price (8)
2 - Hayward (23) / Burks (18) / Bell (7)
3 - Millsap (22) / Evans (16) / Hayward (10)
4 - Favors (30) / Millsap (12) / Big Al (6)
5 - Big Al (26) / Kanter (22)

Totals:
Millsap (34)
Hayward (33)
Big Al (32)
Harris (32)
Favors (30)
Burks (26)
Kanter (22)
Evans (16)
Watson/Price (8)
Bell (7)

Thoughts?

Not a bad lineup... It would be nice to pick up a good shooting 3.

If CJ and/or Kirilenko come back insert them in the 2 and 3 spots... If Memo plays he may steal a few minutes here and there in the post, but I don't even expect him to come back.

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » June 26th, 2011, 7:26 pm

Keep in mind, these are the only Jazz players currently under contract for next year:

Enes Kanter
Al Jefferson
Mehmet Okur
Devin Harris
Paul Millsap
Derrick Favors
Alec Burks
Raja Bell
Gordon Hayward
Jeremy Evans

The Jazz have a team option on C.J. - meaning they can choose to pick it up or not and he's a free agent. All the other players are free agents right now.

So I like 'Sap's minutes, only it's likely that Watson and Price may not be with the Jazz next season. I think there's also a good chance that C.J. won't be with the Jazz either. I think that if the Jazz pick up the C.J. option it will be to trade him. I think Bell might be traded. Millsap could be traded too, but only if the Jazz get a good PG or SF in exchange for him and I don't know who is out there that I would see as equal value - except maybe Danny Granger.

cbingham · Post by **cbingham** » June 27th, 2011, 12:34 am

How about Al Jefferson and a draft pick for Monta Ellis and another guard from the Warriors...

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » June 27th, 2011, 9:10 am

I like the cut of your jib cbingham.

kofdog · Post by **kofdog** » June 27th, 2011, 10:37 am

treesap32 wrote:
kofdog wrote:Or think about if they get Millsap to buy into playing the three. Could make for an interesting line up (putting Hayward at the 2)...
I'd distribute the minutes like this:

1 - Harris (32) / Burks (8) / Watson/Price (8)
2 - Hayward (23) / Burks (18) / Bell (7)
3 - Millsap (22) / Evans (16) / Hayward (10)
4 - Favors (30) / Millsap (12) / Big Al (6)
5 - Big Al (26) / Kanter (22)

Totals:
Millsap (34)
Hayward (33)
Big Al (32)
Harris (32)
Favors (30)
Burks (26)
Kanter (22)
Evans (16)
Watson/Price (8)
Bell (7)

Thoughts?

Not a bad lineup... It would be nice to pick up a good shooting 3.

If CJ and/or Kirilenko come back insert them in the 2 and 3 spots... If Memo plays he may steal a few minutes here and there in the post, but I don't even expect him to come back.

I like that. Don't think you'll see Price again in a Jazz uni and I have my doubts about CJ and AK...I hope they keep Watson until he retires. I"m sure Big Fes is gone and maybe even Elson. Not sure I'm ready to give Hayward that many minutes, he's still not completely sold me on his ability. BUt I do like where this is all headed.

Post by **treesap32** » June 27th, 2011, 12:48 pm

kofdog wrote: I like that. Don't think you'll see Price again in a Jazz uni and I have my doubts about CJ and AK...I hope they keep Watson until he retires. I"m sure Big Fes is gone and maybe even Elson. Not sure I'm ready to give Hayward that many minutes, he's still not completely sold me on his ability. BUt I do like where this is all headed.

Agreed. As far as Hayward goes, if Millsap does in-fact take some minutes at the 3... Hayward could move to the two. He would then be competing with Bell (bad last year) and Burks (Rookie). I'm thinking he gets the majority of the minutes there.

This, of course assumes that CJ will not be back... If CJ comes back the minutes will all change. I'm sure we'll either sign CJ / AK / Other Jazz FA, or make some moves before the season starts, but as things stand now I think those minutes would be viable.

AndroidAggie · Post by **AndroidAggie** » June 27th, 2011, 1:41 pm

I'm not impressed by Kanter. I smell yet another big stiff the Jazz have drafted who will give 8 boards and 8 points a game. KOC and crew have not shown an ability to get decent big men. Maybe they've just sucked because of Sloan. Maybe they've sucked because of Corbin. Maybe they've just sucked.

History is not an indicator of future success, but it sure doesn't put me in a position to expect any different.

Good gracious the Jazz suck.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » June 27th, 2011, 5:41 pm

Mars wrote:I'm not impressed by Kanter. I smell yet another big stiff the Jazz have drafted who will give 8 boards and 8 points a game. KOC and crew have not shown an ability to get decent big men. Maybe they've just sucked because of Sloan. Maybe they've sucked because of Corbin. Maybe they've just sucked.

History is not an indicator of future success, but it sure doesn't put me in a position to expect any different.

Good gracious the Jazz suck.

Just for fun and with the aid of the Yahoo Sports Sortable Stats function, I looked to see how many players listed as centers in the NBA averaged at least 8 points and 8 rebounds per game. Here is that list:

Dwight Howard - 22.9 pts, 14.1 rbds
Emeka Okafor - 10.4 pts, 9.5 rbds
Samuel Dalembert - 8.1 pts, 8.2 rbds
Marcin Gortat - 10.2 pts, 7.9 rbds (I'll round up)

End of list.

I think that if the Jazz could get 8 and 8 out of Kanter they would take that in a minute. That would put him in the top,what, 85th percentile in the league?

I think Kanter has an athleticism and body control that not many guys his size possess and could be a solid player for many years in the league. He may even get to be a 10 and 10 guy joining Dwight Howard as the only other center in the league with those stats. There just aren't that many guys with that size that have that type of body and athleticism walking around on the planet and I don't blame the Jazz at all for the pick.

AndroidAggie · Post by **AndroidAggie** » June 27th, 2011, 8:09 pm

Yossarian, you weren't supposed to actually go and invalidate my post, you nincompoop. Facts and reasoned argument have no place on a message board!

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » June 27th, 2011, 10:12 pm

LOL

I think what I've learned is that the entire NBA sucks.

Post by **treesap32** » June 28th, 2011, 5:11 am

Yossarian wrote:
Mars wrote:I'm not impressed by Kanter. I smell yet another big stiff the Jazz have drafted who will give 8 boards and 8 points a game. KOC and crew have not shown an ability to get decent big men. Maybe they've just sucked because of Sloan. Maybe they've sucked because of Corbin. Maybe they've just sucked.

History is not an indicator of future success, but it sure doesn't put me in a position to expect any different.

Good gracious the Jazz suck.

Just for fun and with the aid of the Yahoo Sports Sortable Stats function, I looked to see how many players listed as centers in the NBA averaged at least 8 points and 8 rebounds per game. Here is that list:

Dwight Howard - 22.9 pts, 14.1 rbds
Emeka Okafor - 10.4 pts, 9.5 rbds
Samuel Dalembert - 8.1 pts, 8.2 rbds
Marcin Gortat - 10.2 pts, 7.9 rbds (I'll round up)

End of list.

I think that if the Jazz could get 8 and 8 out of Kanter they would take that in a minute. That would put him in the top,what, 85th percentile in the league?

I think Kanter has an athleticism and body control that not many guys his size possess and could be a solid player for many years in the league. He may even get to be a 10 and 10 guy joining Dwight Howard as the only other center in the league with those stats. There just aren't that many guys with that size that have that type of body and athleticism walking around on the planet and I don't blame the Jazz at all for the pick.

Unless you count Big Al as a center (I do).

MarioWest · Post by **MarioWest** » June 28th, 2011, 7:38 am

Yossarian wrote: Just for fun and with the aid of the Yahoo Sports Sortable Stats function, I looked to see how many players listed as centers in the NBA averaged at least 8 points and 8 rebounds per game. Here is that list:

Dwight Howard - 22.9 pts, 14.1 rbds
Emeka Okafor - 10.4 pts, 9.5 rbds
Samuel Dalembert - 8.1 pts, 8.2 rbds
Marcin Gortat - 10.2 pts, 7.9 rbds (I'll round up)

Al Horford averaged 15.3 pts and 9.3 rbds last year. He ended up playing the 4 a decent amount during the playoffs because of bad match-ups for him in Noah and Howard, but 90% of the time he's on the floor during the regular season, he plays center.

EDIT: More on topic, I thought the Jazz had one of the best drafts--maybe of anyone besides the Wizards. Kanter and Burks both have a LOT of potential. Kanter may not work out, but you have to roll the dice a little bit. I wish the Hawks would have rolled the dice on Selby, rather than drafting another big man destined to warm the end of the bench.

Mr. Sneelock · Post by **Mr. Sneelock** » June 28th, 2011, 9:06 am

Speaking of Al Horford, he may be the very best comparison to Kanter I've seen. Hopefully the Jazz can get 15+ and 9+ from him.

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » June 28th, 2011, 10:40 am

Mr. Sneelock wrote:Speaking of Al Horford, he may be the very best comparison to Kanter I've seen. Hopefully the Jazz can get 15+ and 9+ from him.

Wait, you can't compare a black guy to Kanter! That kind of open-minded free-thinking isn't allowed in basketball. Kanter is like a poor man's Arvydas Sabonis.

Whew, saved it by finding another big white center from Eastern Europe.

Mr. Sneelock · Post by **Mr. Sneelock** » June 28th, 2011, 1:31 pm

brownjeans wrote:
Mr. Sneelock wrote:Speaking of Al Horford, he may be the very best comparison to Kanter I've seen. Hopefully the Jazz can get 15+ and 9+ from him.
Wait, you can't compare a black guy to Kanter! That kind of open-minded free-thinking isn't allowed in basketball. Kanter is like a poor man's Arvydas Sabonis.

Whew, saved it by finding another big white center from Eastern Europe.

I hate that too, but have to admit that I find myself doing it sometimes too. It is always tempting. Like all the idiots comparing Jimmer Fredette to JJ Redick or Adam Morrison mostly because they are white. An even worse comparison is Steve Nash. Are you kidding me? Have these people seen the way Nash plays? Jimmer plays the game more like like Steph Curry than Steve Nash, but I bet he ends up with a career path more like that of Eddie House (i.e., a good shooting instant offense type of role player off the bench).

Post by **treesap32** » June 28th, 2011, 4:37 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
Mr. Sneelock wrote:Speaking of Al Horford, he may be the very best comparison to Kanter I've seen. Hopefully the Jazz can get 15+ and 9+ from him.
Wait, you can't compare a black guy to Kanter! That kind of open-minded free-thinking isn't allowed in basketball. Kanter is like a poor man's Arvydas Sabonis.

Whew, saved it by finding another big white center from Eastern Europe.
I hate that too, but have to admit that I find myself doing it sometimes too. It is always tempting. Like all the idiots comparing Jimmer Fredette to JJ Redick or Adam Morrison mostly because they are white. An even worse comparison is Steve Nash. Are you kidding me? Have these people seen the way Nash plays? Jimmer plays the game more like like Steph Curry than Steve Nash, but I bet he ends up with a career path more like that of Eddie House (i.e., a good shooting instant offense type of role player off the bench).

Eddie House is a good comparison, but I also think that Morrison, Reddick, and Mark Price are good comparisons as well. Regardless of skin color (and in Morrison's case, size and mustache).

Jimmer has more offensive tools than House does... Steph Curry may be a pretty good comparison, but Jimmer's a bit stronger and won't have as good of a career as Steph in my opinion.

As far ask Kanter goes, you could compare him just as easily to Darko Milicic as you could Kwame Brown. Darko just fits so well due to him also being from Europe, and basically coming out of nowhere with a lot of hype to be drafted in the top 3....

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » June 28th, 2011, 4:55 pm

treesap32 wrote: Eddie House is a good comparison, but I also think that Morrison, Reddick, and Mark Price are good comparisons as well. Regardless of skin color (and in Morrison's case, size and mustache).

Jimmer has more offensive tools than House does... Steph Curry may be a pretty good comparison, but Jimmer's a bit stronger and won't have as good of a career as Steph in my opinion.

As far ask Kanter goes, you could compare him just as easily to Darko Milicic as you could Kwame Brown. Darko just fits so well due to him also being from Europe, and basically coming out of nowhere with a lot of hype to be drafted in the top 3....

Salim Stoudamire (low side)? Nick Van Exel? Mo Williams with a better shooting stroke? Mike Bibby? Jayson Terry (top side)? Now I'm probably being racist the other direction in an effort to find comparable black cagers.

I think the pre-draft circumstances of Kanter and Darko are certainly comparable, but the description of their game is very different. No one thought that Darko was a banger, they all thought he was the next Dirk. I'm not sure anyone has much of any idea about what Kanter will do in the NBA. He's just done nothing that closely resembles it.

It's probably a good sign that in a year away from the game he actually got into better shape. Most players wouldn't even be able to run the floor for more than five minutes after taking a year off. But who knows. I haven't got a clue what to compare him with. Bill Laimbeer without the attitude? Antoine Carr? No clue.

Post by **treesap32** » June 28th, 2011, 5:06 pm

brownjeans wrote: Salim Stoudamire (low side)? Nick Van Exel? Mo Williams with a better shooting stroke? Mike Bibby? Jayson Terry (top side)? Now I'm probably being racist the other direction in an effort to find comparable black cagers.

I think the pre-draft circumstances of Kanter and Darko are certainly comparable, but the description of their game is very different. No one thought that Darko was a banger, they all thought he was the next Dirk. I'm not sure anyone has much of any idea about what Kanter will do in the NBA. He's just done nothing that closely resembles it.

It's probably a good sign that in a year away from the game he actually got into better shape. Most players wouldn't even be able to run the floor for more than five minutes after taking a year off. But who knows. I haven't got a clue what to compare him with. Bill Laimbeer without the attitude? Antoine Carr? No clue.

Excellent post. Salim and Nick are probably good comparisons. Jason Terry maybe as well. I don't think Mo Williams or Bibby compare quite as favorably. The thing about Jimmer is that he is bigger / stronger and more physical than pretty much all the guys we have listed. I heard on the radio where he compared himself to Deron Williams. In some aspects I see this comparison, but he's not even half of the passer / floor general / true PG that Deron is.

Kanter has been compared to Boozer. I think he has a much different game than Boozer, but I haven't seen much (has anyone?). Lambeer and Carr are probably closer.

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