BYU’s 5 million dollar man

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » October 24th, 2024, 10:20 am

dogie wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 8:46 am

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 8:32 am
Maybe Elder Clark Gilbert read this thread.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2024/10/ ... rinciples/
I’m happy to see that my friend, Clark, has his eye on the situation.

On an unrelated note, two years ago, I took my daughter, Clark’s daughter and a couple of other friends to USU as high school seniors for a campus tour.

Noelle Cockett took a full 45 minutes in her office talking with those four students, my wife and me. Noelle soon learned that the Gilbert girl was part of the group. President Cockett was excited and pulled out a nice letter that she had received from Elder Gilbert.

I really thought we might help her become an Aggie, but it was not to be.

Noelle Cockett is a very personable individual. That is a nice story.

Aggie in Boise · Post by **Aggie in Boise** » October 24th, 2024, 10:39 am

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:32 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:04 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 10:19 am

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 9:01 am
Doesn't matter if it is not officially connected to the church. The church will look bad. Good.

Can't help the homeless, but we can build multi-million dollar "Great and Spacious" buildings and pay athletes millions.
Did you casually miss the ~$1B in humanitarian spending by the church last year? Curious as to how one can't spend on the homeless, the poor, church growth, university growth, and NIL all at the same time.

For those that care, John 12:1-8 makes it clear (from the man himself) that "everything should go to the poor" is a fallacy.
No. But the church uses creative accounting to get to that figure. It includes member donated time as well as cash and goods. It isn't all in cash. You don't have to take my word for it. And the church takes in about $7B per year in tithing and donations alone, not to mention earnings on their vast real estate and business empire. The secrecy and unwillingness to open its books even to its tithe-paying members is troubling at best (just trust us, we donated $1B).

The Church can spend its money however it wants. I just think that it could/should do more. But I admittedly have an axe to grind for my own reasons and recognize that criticizing the LDS church around here could ruffle some feathers.
I couldn't care about your axe to grind and don't give a flying crap about anything other than the truth. I don't care if you love or hate the church, and I don't feel the need to be the church's or your sheriff (but sometimes I fall in a trap...).

The problem for the church is that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't in terms of financial reporting. Report the numbers, and kindly folks that can't even balance their own checkbook think that the church is spending money in the wrong places (always too much to building temples and churches and not giving enough for the poor, shockingly) and reporting numbers solely to receive glory from those other than God. Nevermind the admonition in Matt. 5:14–16.

Don't report the numbers and the church is obviously hiding something, enriching the already 100-year-old, already independently rich surgeon, or those who commit their entire lives to the cause (the better argument is abuse of the elderly, in my opinion).

The church does not include member donated time in its $1.36B donation figure. Admittedly, the church has come a long way in financial reporting and has a longer way to come yet (in my opinion). It reports the 6.2 million volunteer hour number separately. Curious to know how volunteer hours could even be converted into cash donations? In which currency? How much is an hour worth? An hour of my time is likely more valuable than an hour of some dude's time in Uganda (the church isn't just in Lehi).

Let's be honest - the church's accountants get paid (I can't express myself without swearing), so it wouldn't follow to me that the church has the best, brightest, and most creative accountants (hint: the "best" and "most creative" accountants work for the government or big 4 and hate their lives).

Very curious to know how a church is supposed to raise cash (and goods) if not from its members. What is a church if not the sum of its people?

Go check the figures and reports here: [url]chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/ ... n_need.pdf[/url]

“[These] figures are, of course, an incomplete report of our giving and helping. They do not include the personal services our members give individually as they minister to one another in called positions and voluntary member-to-member service. And our [summary] makes no mention of what our members do individually through innumerable charitable organizations not formally connected with our Church.” - Dallin H. Oaks

It's understandable that opinions vary about the church's finances, but transparency is important for any large organization, especially one that relies on members’ donations. People aren't necessarily criticizing just to complain—they want to see how their contributions are used, and that’s a fair expectation. Accountability helps build trust, not just within the church but in any organization.

The idea that sharing financial details would be seen as seeking glory misunderstands the need for transparency. Being open about how resources are used is part of being a responsible organization. It’s not about showing off, but about being honest and clear with the people who support the church. This actually fits well with the teachings in Matthew 5:14-16 about setting a good example.

Additionally, it's not about how skilled the church's accountants are compared to those in big firms—it's about handling resources responsibly and being transparent. The church isn’t just an organization, it’s a community of believers, and its members deserve to know how their donations are being used. Financial openness isn't a hassle—If the church is truly the sum of its people, then those people deserve clarity and accountability for how their donations are used. Transparency is a way to keep trust and show that the church is using its resources in the right way.

TrueAG · Post by **TrueAG** » October 24th, 2024, 10:56 am

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 10:39 am

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:32 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:04 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 10:19 am

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 9:01 am
Doesn't matter if it is not officially connected to the church. The church will look bad. Good.

Can't help the homeless, but we can build multi-million dollar "Great and Spacious" buildings and pay athletes millions.
Did you casually miss the ~$1B in humanitarian spending by the church last year? Curious as to how one can't spend on the homeless, the poor, church growth, university growth, and NIL all at the same time.

For those that care, John 12:1-8 makes it clear (from the man himself) that "everything should go to the poor" is a fallacy.
No. But the church uses creative accounting to get to that figure. It includes member donated time as well as cash and goods. It isn't all in cash. You don't have to take my word for it. And the church takes in about $7B per year in tithing and donations alone, not to mention earnings on their vast real estate and business empire. The secrecy and unwillingness to open its books even to its tithe-paying members is troubling at best (just trust us, we donated $1B).

The Church can spend its money however it wants. I just think that it could/should do more. But I admittedly have an axe to grind for my own reasons and recognize that criticizing the LDS church around here could ruffle some feathers.
I couldn't care about your axe to grind and don't give a flying crap about anything other than the truth. I don't care if you love or hate the church, and I don't feel the need to be the church's or your sheriff (but sometimes I fall in a trap...).

The problem for the church is that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't in terms of financial reporting. Report the numbers, and kindly folks that can't even balance their own checkbook think that the church is spending money in the wrong places (always too much to building temples and churches and not giving enough for the poor, shockingly) and reporting numbers solely to receive glory from those other than God. Nevermind the admonition in Matt. 5:14–16.

Don't report the numbers and the church is obviously hiding something, enriching the already 100-year-old, already independently rich surgeon, or those who commit their entire lives to the cause (the better argument is abuse of the elderly, in my opinion).

The church does not include member donated time in its $1.36B donation figure. Admittedly, the church has come a long way in financial reporting and has a longer way to come yet (in my opinion). It reports the 6.2 million volunteer hour number separately. Curious to know how volunteer hours could even be converted into cash donations? In which currency? How much is an hour worth? An hour of my time is likely more valuable than an hour of some dude's time in Uganda (the church isn't just in Lehi).

Let's be honest - the church's accountants get paid (I can't express myself without swearing), so it wouldn't follow to me that the church has the best, brightest, and most creative accountants (hint: the "best" and "most creative" accountants work for the government or big 4 and hate their lives).

Very curious to know how a church is supposed to raise cash (and goods) if not from its members. What is a church if not the sum of its people?

Go check the figures and reports here: [url]chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/ ... n_need.pdf[/url]

“[These] figures are, of course, an incomplete report of our giving and helping. They do not include the personal services our members give individually as they minister to one another in called positions and voluntary member-to-member service. And our [summary] makes no mention of what our members do individually through innumerable charitable organizations not formally connected with our Church.” - Dallin H. Oaks
It's understandable that opinions vary about the church's finances, but transparency is important for any large organization, especially one that relies on members’ donations. People aren't necessarily criticizing just to complain—they want to see how their contributions are used, and that’s a fair expectation. Accountability helps build trust, not just within the church but in any organization.

The idea that sharing financial details would be seen as seeking glory misunderstands the need for transparency. Being open about how resources are used is part of being a responsible organization. It’s not about showing off, but about being honest and clear with the people who support the church. This actually fits well with the teachings in Matthew 5:14-16 about setting a good example.

Additionally, it's not about how skilled the church's accountants are compared to those in big firms—it's about handling resources responsibly and being transparent. The church isn’t just an organization, it’s a community of believers, and its members deserve to know how their donations are being used. Financial openness isn't a hassle—If the church is truly the sum of its people, then those people deserve clarity and accountability for how their donations are used. Transparency is a way to keep trust and show that the church is using its resources in the right way.

Good post! A church is nothing more than it's membership. There seemed to be a shift in the mid-90s from scrappy self-reliant peculiar people who loved their church and their communities to corporate stewardship. The shift from humility to prosperity gospel in the members has been gross. Keeping up with Jones's attitude in Utah drove me away from a beautiful state. If the LDS church is fine with BYU overpaying to get a decent basketball team and having Utah's reputation based on MomTok, so be it. This is the bed they have made putting Money first and faith second.

Coloraggie · Post by **Coloraggie** » October 24th, 2024, 11:34 am

justinmorrey wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 1:22 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
October 22nd, 2024, 9:39 pm
Geez. I actually love that they are dropping insane money on these guys. Let them compete for recruits that are way outside of our price range. That leaves more talent in Utah that they may have taken otherwise back in the good old days. It will be interesting to see how they do. Since moving out of Utah, I don't have energy or care enough to hate BYU. Obviously, I'll always have a little special place in my heart to despise them, but it's been refreshing not to care about them so much.

Go Aggies!
For real. I moved away for 10 years and stopped caring at all about their sports except for a passing amusement. Now I’m back and I’d say my interest in them is about the same.

Seriously, who cares?

I'm probably same boat. I'll actually look and check for Jazz scores on ESPN but I don't own any Jazz merchandise and its probably been 20 years since I attended a game or spend a single cent on the Jazz. Maybe if Ainge actually builds a contender and doesn't just keep stockpiling draft picks for the 'future' then I'll be more interested. At this pace there will be a year that the Jazz will own every pick in the first round but won't have made playoffs for

Coloraggie · Post by **Coloraggie** » October 24th, 2024, 11:39 am

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 10:39 am
People aren't necessarily criticizing just to complain—they want to see how their contributions are used, and that’s a fair expectation. Accountability helps build trust, not just within the church but in any organization.

I don't pay tithing because of how it is used. I pay tithing because I believe it is a commandment. How it is used is secondary. Saying that I don't want it to be used correctly. If the church was paying NIL from tithing I'd have a big problem with that, but as has been stated, the church doesn't pay NIL. The church can advise Ryan Smith on how to use his money but outside the 10% they really don't have any say. Same thing with the vanity of the members in Utah. I agree that the vanity is terrible but that isn't the church or the churches teachings, it is the decisions of individual members choosing to do what they want with the money they have earned. But those members should watch out because I seem to remember this cycle in my readings, church does well, members get rich, members get vain and steeped in pride, members fall and the church suffers because of it.

918AGG · Post by **918AGG** » October 24th, 2024, 11:54 am

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 10:39 am

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:32 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:04 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 10:19 am

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 9:01 am
Doesn't matter if it is not officially connected to the church. The church will look bad. Good.

Can't help the homeless, but we can build multi-million dollar "Great and Spacious" buildings and pay athletes millions.
Did you casually miss the ~$1B in humanitarian spending by the church last year? Curious as to how one can't spend on the homeless, the poor, church growth, university growth, and NIL all at the same time.

For those that care, John 12:1-8 makes it clear (from the man himself) that "everything should go to the poor" is a fallacy.
No. But the church uses creative accounting to get to that figure. It includes member donated time as well as cash and goods. It isn't all in cash. You don't have to take my word for it. And the church takes in about $7B per year in tithing and donations alone, not to mention earnings on their vast real estate and business empire. The secrecy and unwillingness to open its books even to its tithe-paying members is troubling at best (just trust us, we donated $1B).

The Church can spend its money however it wants. I just think that it could/should do more. But I admittedly have an axe to grind for my own reasons and recognize that criticizing the LDS church around here could ruffle some feathers.
I couldn't care about your axe to grind and don't give a flying crap about anything other than the truth. I don't care if you love or hate the church, and I don't feel the need to be the church's or your sheriff (but sometimes I fall in a trap...).

The problem for the church is that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't in terms of financial reporting. Report the numbers, and kindly folks that can't even balance their own checkbook think that the church is spending money in the wrong places (always too much to building temples and churches and not giving enough for the poor, shockingly) and reporting numbers solely to receive glory from those other than God. Nevermind the admonition in Matt. 5:14–16.

Don't report the numbers and the church is obviously hiding something, enriching the already 100-year-old, already independently rich surgeon, or those who commit their entire lives to the cause (the better argument is abuse of the elderly, in my opinion).

The church does not include member donated time in its $1.36B donation figure. Admittedly, the church has come a long way in financial reporting and has a longer way to come yet (in my opinion). It reports the 6.2 million volunteer hour number separately. Curious to know how volunteer hours could even be converted into cash donations? In which currency? How much is an hour worth? An hour of my time is likely more valuable than an hour of some dude's time in Uganda (the church isn't just in Lehi).

Let's be honest - the church's accountants get paid (I can't express myself without swearing), so it wouldn't follow to me that the church has the best, brightest, and most creative accountants (hint: the "best" and "most creative" accountants work for the government or big 4 and hate their lives).

Very curious to know how a church is supposed to raise cash (and goods) if not from its members. What is a church if not the sum of its people?

Go check the figures and reports here: [url]chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/ ... n_need.pdf[/url]

“[These] figures are, of course, an incomplete report of our giving and helping. They do not include the personal services our members give individually as they minister to one another in called positions and voluntary member-to-member service. And our [summary] makes no mention of what our members do individually through innumerable charitable organizations not formally connected with our Church.” - Dallin H. Oaks
It's understandable that opinions vary about the church's finances, but transparency is important for any large organization, especially one that relies on members’ donations. People aren't necessarily criticizing just to complain—they want to see how their contributions are used, and that’s a fair expectation. Accountability helps build trust, not just within the church but in any organization.

The idea that sharing financial details would be seen as seeking glory misunderstands the need for transparency. Being open about how resources are used is part of being a responsible organization. It’s not about showing off, but about being honest and clear with the people who support the church. This actually fits well with the teachings in Matthew 5:14-16 about setting a good example.

Additionally, it's not about how skilled the church's accountants are compared to those in big firms—it's about handling resources responsibly and being transparent. The church isn’t just an organization, it’s a community of believers, and its members deserve to know how their donations are being used. Financial openness isn't a hassle—If the church is truly the sum of its people, then those people deserve clarity and accountability for how their donations are used. Transparency is a way to keep trust and show that the church is using its resources in the right way.

I agree with most of this.

I used to give liberally to Fast Offerings. Now, after being my ward clerk for two years, and seeing how much money we bring in, and how some people in my community don't always receive what they're asking for, I really don't understand what Fast Offerings are used for.

Consequently, I now give very liberally to the Humanitarian Fund but have substantially scaled back my Fast Offering donations. Now, I'm wondering if it's all just one fund anyway (i.e., if Fast Offering overages that exist at the ward and stake level, that then go to SLC, are simply dumped into a Humanitarian Fund account). I can't find any good guidance on this and it's frustrating, so I get the issue.

I went to a luncheon for a charity called Ace Scholarships. I heard their pitch and thought about giving to them myself. Before I did, I went on and looked at their IRS Form 990 filing and was shocked to see how much their Board of Directors makes annually. They do good work but aren't nearly the size and scale of the church. I decided against a donation.

I have reason to believe that church leaders aren't compensated quite so handsomely (long story, but Mormon-wiki pages leaked an alleged paystub from Henry B. Eyring and he seemed to make somewhere in the neighborhood of $100K per year... hardly eye-watering, especially given the commitment and size and scale of the church... but it also isn't chicken feed).

Being on the church-side of the coin, the "you're just doing this for show" criticism is real, even after seeing real lives changed and blessed, and me being modest about disclosing expenses and donations - in the first place - only exacerbates the frustration on my end. There's a definite tight-rope walk to be had.

Aggie in Boise · Post by **Aggie in Boise** » October 24th, 2024, 2:26 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 11:54 am

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 10:39 am

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:32 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:04 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 10:19 am

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 9:01 am
Doesn't matter if it is not officially connected to the church. The church will look bad. Good.

Can't help the homeless, but we can build multi-million dollar "Great and Spacious" buildings and pay athletes millions.
Did you casually miss the ~$1B in humanitarian spending by the church last year? Curious as to how one can't spend on the homeless, the poor, church growth, university growth, and NIL all at the same time.

For those that care, John 12:1-8 makes it clear (from the man himself) that "everything should go to the poor" is a fallacy.
No. But the church uses creative accounting to get to that figure. It includes member donated time as well as cash and goods. It isn't all in cash. You don't have to take my word for it. And the church takes in about $7B per year in tithing and donations alone, not to mention earnings on their vast real estate and business empire. The secrecy and unwillingness to open its books even to its tithe-paying members is troubling at best (just trust us, we donated $1B).

The Church can spend its money however it wants. I just think that it could/should do more. But I admittedly have an axe to grind for my own reasons and recognize that criticizing the LDS church around here could ruffle some feathers.
I couldn't care about your axe to grind and don't give a flying crap about anything other than the truth. I don't care if you love or hate the church, and I don't feel the need to be the church's or your sheriff (but sometimes I fall in a trap...).

The problem for the church is that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't in terms of financial reporting. Report the numbers, and kindly folks that can't even balance their own checkbook think that the church is spending money in the wrong places (always too much to building temples and churches and not giving enough for the poor, shockingly) and reporting numbers solely to receive glory from those other than God. Nevermind the admonition in Matt. 5:14–16.

Don't report the numbers and the church is obviously hiding something, enriching the already 100-year-old, already independently rich surgeon, or those who commit their entire lives to the cause (the better argument is abuse of the elderly, in my opinion).

The church does not include member donated time in its $1.36B donation figure. Admittedly, the church has come a long way in financial reporting and has a longer way to come yet (in my opinion). It reports the 6.2 million volunteer hour number separately. Curious to know how volunteer hours could even be converted into cash donations? In which currency? How much is an hour worth? An hour of my time is likely more valuable than an hour of some dude's time in Uganda (the church isn't just in Lehi).

Let's be honest - the church's accountants get paid (I can't express myself without swearing), so it wouldn't follow to me that the church has the best, brightest, and most creative accountants (hint: the "best" and "most creative" accountants work for the government or big 4 and hate their lives).

Very curious to know how a church is supposed to raise cash (and goods) if not from its members. What is a church if not the sum of its people?

Go check the figures and reports here: [url]chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/ ... n_need.pdf[/url]

“[These] figures are, of course, an incomplete report of our giving and helping. They do not include the personal services our members give individually as they minister to one another in called positions and voluntary member-to-member service. And our [summary] makes no mention of what our members do individually through innumerable charitable organizations not formally connected with our Church.” - Dallin H. Oaks
It's understandable that opinions vary about the church's finances, but transparency is important for any large organization, especially one that relies on members’ donations. People aren't necessarily criticizing just to complain—they want to see how their contributions are used, and that’s a fair expectation. Accountability helps build trust, not just within the church but in any organization.

The idea that sharing financial details would be seen as seeking glory misunderstands the need for transparency. Being open about how resources are used is part of being a responsible organization. It’s not about showing off, but about being honest and clear with the people who support the church. This actually fits well with the teachings in Matthew 5:14-16 about setting a good example.

Additionally, it's not about how skilled the church's accountants are compared to those in big firms—it's about handling resources responsibly and being transparent. The church isn’t just an organization, it’s a community of believers, and its members deserve to know how their donations are being used. Financial openness isn't a hassle—If the church is truly the sum of its people, then those people deserve clarity and accountability for how their donations are used. Transparency is a way to keep trust and show that the church is using its resources in the right way.
I agree with most of this.

I used to give liberally to Fast Offerings. Now, after being my ward clerk for two years, and seeing how much money we bring in, and how some people in my community don't always receive what they're asking for, I really don't understand what Fast Offerings are used for.

Consequently, I now give very liberally to the Humanitarian Fund but have substantially scaled back my Fast Offering donations. Now, I'm wondering if it's all just one fund anyway (i.e., if Fast Offering overages that exist at the ward and stake level, that then go to SLC, are simply dumped into a Humanitarian Fund account). I can't find any good guidance on this and it's frustrating, so I get the issue.

I went to a luncheon for a charity called Ace Scholarships. I heard their pitch and thought about giving to them myself. Before I did, I went on and looked at their IRS Form 990 filing and was shocked to see how much their Board of Directors makes annually. They do good work but aren't nearly the size and scale of the church. I decided against a donation.

I have reason to believe that church leaders aren't compensated quite so handsomely (long story, but Mormon-wiki pages leaked an alleged paystub from Henry B. Eyring and he seemed to make somewhere in the neighborhood of $100K per year... hardly eye-watering, especially given the commitment and size and scale of the church... but it also isn't chicken feed).

Being on the church-side of the coin, the "you're just doing this for show" criticism is real, even after seeing real lives changed and blessed, and me being modest about disclosing expenses and donations - in the first place - only exacerbates the frustration on my end. There's a definite tight-rope walk to be had.

It's understandable that your experience as a ward clerk raised concerns about how Church donations, like Fast Offerings, are managed. Fast Offerings are specifically intended to help local members in need. When there’s extra after meeting those needs, the funds are sent to Church headquarters to help others in different areas. This can lead to confusion, especially when compared to the Humanitarian Fund, but they are distinct funds that serve similar charitable purposes.

Regarding compensation of Church Leadership, the 2017 leak of Henry B. Eyring’s pay stub showed that his living allowance in 1999-2000 was around $90,000, and by 2014, it had increased to about $120,000. In today's dollars this would be about $160,000, which is significant compared to the average salary in Utah (around $75,000). In addition to their salaries, it is my understanding that Church leaders receive various perks, including gas, car allowances, tuition reimbursement for their children, home maintenance/repair funds, etc. These benefits in addition to typical employment benefits like medical, dental, life insurance, etc. make their overall financial package substantial, especially when compared to the unpaid volunteer leaders at the local level.

Bishops, Relief Society Presidents, Stake Presidents, and other local leaders donate countless hours of service to their local wards without receiving any compensation. Their efforts are key to the Church's operations and highlight the immense service done by many without financial reward.

Additionally, many of the current apostles and prophets were financially successful before their Church service. Many had careers as doctors, attorneys, or businessmen, and some accumulated wealth long before becoming full-time leaders. For instance, individuals like Elder Dallin H. Oaks had a distinguished career as a lawyer and judge, and President Russell M. Nelson was a prominent heart surgeon before accepting his Church responsibilities.

Missionaries, who represent the Church globally pay for their own missions. They use personal and/or family funds to cover their mission expenses, further emphasizing the importance of sacrifice and commitment.

There’s also a scripture that says not to trust in the "arm of flesh" (2 Nephi 4:34). This means that even Church leaders are human and not perfect. That’s why it’s important for members to know how the Church uses funds and to hold leaders accountable. It helps members remain confident that their donations are used responsibly and for the purposes they are intended. Knowing how donations are used builds trust.

While the compensation practices for prophets, apostles and general authorities might raise questions for some, it's important to remember the global scale and responsibility they manage. That said, when their financial packages are compared to the average member’s income and the unpaid work done by local leaders, the need for greater transparency becomes clear. This openness would provide members with the confidence that their contributions are making a meaningful impact.

Aggiefan160 · Post by **Aggiefan160** » October 24th, 2024, 2:32 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
October 22nd, 2024, 9:39 pm
Geez. I actually love that they are dropping insane money on these guys. Let them compete for recruits that are way outside of our price range. That leaves more talent in Utah that they may have taken otherwise back in the good old days. It will be interesting to see how they do. Since moving out of Utah, I don't have energy or care enough to hate BYU. Obviously, I'll always have a little special place in my heart to despise them, but it's been refreshing not to care about them so much.

Go Aggies!

I was thinking about this the other day. Since moving out of Utah, I just don't despise BYU or Utah like I did when I was living along the Wasatch Front.

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » October 24th, 2024, 2:45 pm

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 2:26 pm
It's understandable that your experience as a ward clerk raised concerns about how Church donations, like Fast Offerings, are managed. Fast Offerings are specifically intended to help local members in need. When there’s extra after meeting those needs, the funds are sent to Church headquarters to help others in different areas. This can lead to confusion, especially when compared to the Humanitarian Fund, but they are distinct funds that serve similar charitable purposes.

Regarding compensation of Church Leadership, the 2017 leak of Henry B. Eyring’s pay stub showed that his living allowance in 1999-2000 was around $90,000, and by 2014, it had increased to about $120,000. In today's dollars this would be about $160,000, which is significant compared to the average salary in Utah (around $75,000). In addition to their salaries, it is my understanding that Church leaders receive various perks, including gas, car allowances, tuition reimbursement for their children, home maintenance/repair funds, etc. These benefits in addition to typical employment benefits like medical, dental, life insurance, etc. make their overall financial package substantial, especially when compared to the unpaid volunteer leaders at the local level.

Bishops, Relief Society Presidents, Stake Presidents, and other local leaders donate countless hours of service to their local wards without receiving any compensation. Their efforts are key to the Church's operations and highlight the immense service done by many without financial reward.

Additionally, many of the current apostles and prophets were financially successful before their Church service. Many had careers as doctors, attorneys, or businessmen, and some accumulated wealth long before becoming full-time leaders. For instance, individuals like Elder Dallin H. Oaks had a distinguished career as a lawyer and judge, and President Russell M. Nelson was a prominent heart surgeon before accepting his Church responsibilities.

Missionaries, who represent the Church globally pay for their own missions. They use personal and/or family funds to cover their mission expenses, further emphasizing the importance of sacrifice and commitment.

There’s also a scripture that says not to trust in the "arm of flesh" (2 Nephi 4:34). This means that even Church leaders are human and not perfect. That’s why it’s important for members to know how the Church uses funds and to hold leaders accountable. It helps members remain confident that their donations are used responsibly and for the purposes they are intended. Knowing how donations are used builds trust.

While the compensation practices for prophets, apostles and general authorities might raise questions for some, it's important to remember the global scale and responsibility they manage. That said, when their financial packages are compared to the average member’s income and the unpaid work done by local leaders, the need for greater transparency becomes clear. This openness would provide members with the confidence that their contributions are making a meaningful impact.

The stipends General Authorities can use, (not all of them do), are not funded by tithing. They are funded by profits from the businesses such as Deseret Book, the Deseret Ranch, Bonneville International etc. bring in each year.

Mission Presidents also can receive them if they are not independently wealthy enough to quit work for 3 years to go and oversee a mission.

If you are asked to quit your job to go to be a General Authority or Mission President, then that is available since you can't report for a job during that time. None of those people asked for these positions, they were "called" or recruited to do it. Some gave up lucrative careers to be in those positions and make less money.

I guess if people have a problem with those living allowances, then they can have a problem. However, it isn't funded through tithing or fast offerings.

918AGG · Post by **918AGG** » October 24th, 2024, 2:47 pm

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 2:26 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 11:54 am

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 10:39 am

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:32 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 4:04 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 10:19 am

Mr. Sneelock wrote: ↑
October 23rd, 2024, 9:01 am
Doesn't matter if it is not officially connected to the church. The church will look bad. Good.

Can't help the homeless, but we can build multi-million dollar "Great and Spacious" buildings and pay athletes millions.
Did you casually miss the ~$1B in humanitarian spending by the church last year? Curious as to how one can't spend on the homeless, the poor, church growth, university growth, and NIL all at the same time.

For those that care, John 12:1-8 makes it clear (from the man himself) that "everything should go to the poor" is a fallacy.
No. But the church uses creative accounting to get to that figure. It includes member donated time as well as cash and goods. It isn't all in cash. You don't have to take my word for it. And the church takes in about $7B per year in tithing and donations alone, not to mention earnings on their vast real estate and business empire. The secrecy and unwillingness to open its books even to its tithe-paying members is troubling at best (just trust us, we donated $1B).

The Church can spend its money however it wants. I just think that it could/should do more. But I admittedly have an axe to grind for my own reasons and recognize that criticizing the LDS church around here could ruffle some feathers.
I couldn't care about your axe to grind and don't give a flying crap about anything other than the truth. I don't care if you love or hate the church, and I don't feel the need to be the church's or your sheriff (but sometimes I fall in a trap...).

The problem for the church is that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't in terms of financial reporting. Report the numbers, and kindly folks that can't even balance their own checkbook think that the church is spending money in the wrong places (always too much to building temples and churches and not giving enough for the poor, shockingly) and reporting numbers solely to receive glory from those other than God. Nevermind the admonition in Matt. 5:14–16.

Don't report the numbers and the church is obviously hiding something, enriching the already 100-year-old, already independently rich surgeon, or those who commit their entire lives to the cause (the better argument is abuse of the elderly, in my opinion).

The church does not include member donated time in its $1.36B donation figure. Admittedly, the church has come a long way in financial reporting and has a longer way to come yet (in my opinion). It reports the 6.2 million volunteer hour number separately. Curious to know how volunteer hours could even be converted into cash donations? In which currency? How much is an hour worth? An hour of my time is likely more valuable than an hour of some dude's time in Uganda (the church isn't just in Lehi).

Let's be honest - the church's accountants get paid (I can't express myself without swearing), so it wouldn't follow to me that the church has the best, brightest, and most creative accountants (hint: the "best" and "most creative" accountants work for the government or big 4 and hate their lives).

Very curious to know how a church is supposed to raise cash (and goods) if not from its members. What is a church if not the sum of its people?

Go check the figures and reports here: [url]chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/ ... n_need.pdf[/url]

“[These] figures are, of course, an incomplete report of our giving and helping. They do not include the personal services our members give individually as they minister to one another in called positions and voluntary member-to-member service. And our [summary] makes no mention of what our members do individually through innumerable charitable organizations not formally connected with our Church.” - Dallin H. Oaks
It's understandable that opinions vary about the church's finances, but transparency is important for any large organization, especially one that relies on members’ donations. People aren't necessarily criticizing just to complain—they want to see how their contributions are used, and that’s a fair expectation. Accountability helps build trust, not just within the church but in any organization.

The idea that sharing financial details would be seen as seeking glory misunderstands the need for transparency. Being open about how resources are used is part of being a responsible organization. It’s not about showing off, but about being honest and clear with the people who support the church. This actually fits well with the teachings in Matthew 5:14-16 about setting a good example.

Additionally, it's not about how skilled the church's accountants are compared to those in big firms—it's about handling resources responsibly and being transparent. The church isn’t just an organization, it’s a community of believers, and its members deserve to know how their donations are being used. Financial openness isn't a hassle—If the church is truly the sum of its people, then those people deserve clarity and accountability for how their donations are used. Transparency is a way to keep trust and show that the church is using its resources in the right way.
I agree with most of this.

I used to give liberally to Fast Offerings. Now, after being my ward clerk for two years, and seeing how much money we bring in, and how some people in my community don't always receive what they're asking for, I really don't understand what Fast Offerings are used for.

Consequently, I now give very liberally to the Humanitarian Fund but have substantially scaled back my Fast Offering donations. Now, I'm wondering if it's all just one fund anyway (i.e., if Fast Offering overages that exist at the ward and stake level, that then go to SLC, are simply dumped into a Humanitarian Fund account). I can't find any good guidance on this and it's frustrating, so I get the issue.

I went to a luncheon for a charity called Ace Scholarships. I heard their pitch and thought about giving to them myself. Before I did, I went on and looked at their IRS Form 990 filing and was shocked to see how much their Board of Directors makes annually. They do good work but aren't nearly the size and scale of the church. I decided against a donation.

I have reason to believe that church leaders aren't compensated quite so handsomely (long story, but Mormon-wiki pages leaked an alleged paystub from Henry B. Eyring and he seemed to make somewhere in the neighborhood of $100K per year... hardly eye-watering, especially given the commitment and size and scale of the church... but it also isn't chicken feed).

Being on the church-side of the coin, the "you're just doing this for show" criticism is real, even after seeing real lives changed and blessed, and me being modest about disclosing expenses and donations - in the first place - only exacerbates the frustration on my end. There's a definite tight-rope walk to be had.
It's understandable that your experience as a ward clerk raised concerns about how Church donations, like Fast Offerings, are managed. Fast Offerings are specifically intended to help local members in need. When there’s extra after meeting those needs, the funds are sent to Church headquarters to help others in different areas. This can lead to confusion, especially when compared to the Humanitarian Fund, but they are distinct funds that serve similar charitable purposes.

Regarding compensation of Church Leadership, the 2017 leak of Henry B. Eyring’s pay stub showed that his living allowance in 1999-2000 was around $90,000, and by 2014, it had increased to about $120,000. In today's dollars this would be about $160,000, which is significant compared to the average salary in Utah (around $75,000). In addition to their salaries, it is my understanding that Church leaders receive various perks, including gas, car allowances, tuition reimbursement for their children, home maintenance/repair funds, etc. These benefits in addition to typical employment benefits like medical, dental, life insurance, etc. make their overall financial package substantial, especially when compared to the unpaid volunteer leaders at the local level.

Bishops, Relief Society Presidents, Stake Presidents, and other local leaders donate countless hours of service to their local wards without receiving any compensation. Their efforts are key to the Church's operations and highlight the immense service done by many without financial reward.

Additionally, many of the current apostles and prophets were financially successful before their Church service. Many had careers as doctors, attorneys, or businessmen, and some accumulated wealth long before becoming full-time leaders. For instance, individuals like Elder Dallin H. Oaks had a distinguished career as a lawyer and judge, and President Russell M. Nelson was a prominent heart surgeon before accepting his Church responsibilities.

Missionaries, who represent the Church globally pay for their own missions. They use personal and/or family funds to cover their mission expenses, further emphasizing the importance of sacrifice and commitment.

There’s also a scripture that says not to trust in the "arm of flesh" (2 Nephi 4:34). This means that even Church leaders are human and not perfect. That’s why it’s important for members to know how the Church uses funds and to hold leaders accountable. It helps members remain confident that their donations are used responsibly and for the purposes they are intended. Knowing how donations are used builds trust.

While the compensation practices for prophets, apostles and general authorities might raise questions for some, it's important to remember the global scale and responsibility they manage. That said, when their financial packages are compared to the average member’s income and the unpaid work done by local leaders, the need for greater transparency becomes clear. This openness would provide members with the confidence that their contributions are making a meaningful impact.

Interesting points. Again, I like it all.

One counter-point is that heads of church, while actually compensated with cash and other benefits, are also typically called for the remainder of their lifetime. I'm not sure I'd be interested in $160K/year (plus whatever benefits), if I had to commit to 60 years of service to receive it. I'd - honestly - prefer my current gig (work privately, donate, sacrifice, bullsh---- on an Aggie board, but also stay out of the public eye, retire in the next 20 years, and take as much time for myself and my family as I'd like).

As I get older, time is becoming much more valuable than money, and I'd guess that's even more true for a 100-year old, but your points are valid, and I'd like to see more transparency as well. I think we'll eventually get there.

Aggie in Boise · Post by **Aggie in Boise** » October 24th, 2024, 3:42 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 2:45 pm

Aggie in Boise wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 2:26 pm
It's understandable that your experience as a ward clerk raised concerns about how Church donations, like Fast Offerings, are managed. Fast Offerings are specifically intended to help local members in need. When there’s extra after meeting those needs, the funds are sent to Church headquarters to help others in different areas. This can lead to confusion, especially when compared to the Humanitarian Fund, but they are distinct funds that serve similar charitable purposes.

Regarding compensation of Church Leadership, the 2017 leak of Henry B. Eyring’s pay stub showed that his living allowance in 1999-2000 was around $90,000, and by 2014, it had increased to about $120,000. In today's dollars this would be about $160,000, which is significant compared to the average salary in Utah (around $75,000). In addition to their salaries, it is my understanding that Church leaders receive various perks, including gas, car allowances, tuition reimbursement for their children, home maintenance/repair funds, etc. These benefits in addition to typical employment benefits like medical, dental, life insurance, etc. make their overall financial package substantial, especially when compared to the unpaid volunteer leaders at the local level.

Bishops, Relief Society Presidents, Stake Presidents, and other local leaders donate countless hours of service to their local wards without receiving any compensation. Their efforts are key to the Church's operations and highlight the immense service done by many without financial reward.

Additionally, many of the current apostles and prophets were financially successful before their Church service. Many had careers as doctors, attorneys, or businessmen, and some accumulated wealth long before becoming full-time leaders. For instance, individuals like Elder Dallin H. Oaks had a distinguished career as a lawyer and judge, and President Russell M. Nelson was a prominent heart surgeon before accepting his Church responsibilities.

Missionaries, who represent the Church globally pay for their own missions. They use personal and/or family funds to cover their mission expenses, further emphasizing the importance of sacrifice and commitment.

There’s also a scripture that says not to trust in the "arm of flesh" (2 Nephi 4:34). This means that even Church leaders are human and not perfect. That’s why it’s important for members to know how the Church uses funds and to hold leaders accountable. It helps members remain confident that their donations are used responsibly and for the purposes they are intended. Knowing how donations are used builds trust.

While the compensation practices for prophets, apostles and general authorities might raise questions for some, it's important to remember the global scale and responsibility they manage. That said, when their financial packages are compared to the average member’s income and the unpaid work done by local leaders, the need for greater transparency becomes clear. This openness would provide members with the confidence that their contributions are making a meaningful impact.
The stipends General Authorities can use, (not all of them do), are not funded by tithing. They are funded by profits from the businesses such as Deseret Book, the Deseret Ranch, Bonneville International etc. bring in each year.

Mission Presidents also can receive them if they are not independently wealthy enough to quit work for 3 years to go and oversee a mission.

If you are asked to quit your job to go to be a General Authority or Mission President, then that is available since you can't report for a job during that time. None of those people asked for these positions, they were "called" or recruited to do it. Some gave up lucrative careers to be in those positions and make less money.

I guess if people have a problem with those living allowances, then they can have a problem. However, it isn't funded through tithing or fast offerings.

It's important to understand that while the stipends for General Authorities may (How do we know for certain without transparency?) currently come from Church-owned businesses like Deseret Book, Bonneville International, and others, these companies were likely originally founded and supported by tithing funds. This means that, indirectly, the growth and success of these businesses have roots in member donations. The argument that these stipends are not funded by tithing overlooks this history and the connection between Church-owned businesses and the financial contributions made by members over time.

Not to mention, missionaries, unlike General Authorities and Mission Presidents, pay their own way to serve. They give up significant time and their families and/or personal savings typically cover the costs. These young men and women make substantial financial sacrifices to answer the call to serve, which demonstrates a commitment to the Church without any expectation of financial compensation.

Regarding the argument that General Authorities and Mission Presidents are given stipends because they gave up lucrative careers, it’s worth considering that many of these individuals were already financially successful before being called to serve. They likely had the means to support themselves without relying on a Church stipend. If young missionaries can finance their missions—often at great personal cost—one might reasonably expect that wealthy General Authorities, having given up their careers, could similarly finance their service.

Lastly, the notion that these leaders "didn't ask for these positions" is valid, but many people in the Church sacrifice for callings they didn't ask for. Bishops, Stake Presidents, Relief Society Presidents, and many others devote significant time and energy to serving their wards without compensation. The unpaid service model is fundamental to how the Church operates at the local level, making it difficult for some to reconcile the stipends given to higher-level leadership.

While it’s understandable that General Authorities and Mission Presidents may need support to fulfill their roles, the history of Church-owned businesses being established through tithing funds, and the comparison to the financial sacrifices made by unpaid local leaders and missionaries, raises valid questions about how the Church allocates financial resources. Transparency in these matters is essential for maintaining trust among members, ensuring that all contributions are used wisely and for their intended purposes.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » October 24th, 2024, 3:51 pm

I have nothing but contempt for Ryan Smith after he extorted salt lake City for a billion dollars instead of spending it himself and is now spending his personal money to make ybu a national basketball power. I will never judge anyone for enjoying the hockey team, but I will never support it unless it gets a new owner.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 24th, 2024, 4:05 pm

As a current member of the church, I understand the call for more transparency. Personally, it doesn't matter to me one bit. None of these leaders are asking me for my tithes and offerings. I believe that God is asking me for them. I'm not giving these to the bishop or prophet. I am giving them to God. Those in charge of administering these funds hold the responsibility to use them as directed by God. They are also accountable for their actions. My personal life has been significantly blessed by my obedience to this commandment. I also recognize that leaders can run afoul. We can read about it in books about ancient civilizations, even church organizations. People aren't perfect and will commit flaws, me included.

I can personally attest to the wonderful and significant blessing fast offerings can be in someone's life. I have personally benefitted from this kindness in my early family life. Several years ago, my area spent 80% of its fast offerings on mental health services and the like. Only about 20% went to commodities. In recent years, this has completely flipped. People have needs all around us. We don't need to leave our own neighborhoods or cities to find people with needs. Fast offerings aren't exclusively for members. I know many non-members have benefitted from them as well.

I will never fault someone for desiring more transparency. It doesn't show weakness or lack of faith. For me, I have found my own answers.

gomretat · Post by **gomretat** » October 24th, 2024, 4:46 pm

Building and running temples is very expensive. Running missions all over the world is very expensive. Building church buildings all over the world is very expensive. IMO the church gives very generously to people in need but it is still secondary to their mission which is where most of the money goes. The amount of attacks on how the LDS church manages their finances would go up 10 fold if they were transparent, particularly because those attacking would not agree with the priority.

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » October 25th, 2024, 9:30 am

The less I think or care about anything related to BYU, the happier I am.

Mr. Sneelock · Post by **Mr. Sneelock** » October 25th, 2024, 10:24 am

The fact is that I don't really care how the church uses its tithing money because I don't pay it anymore. I do wish I could get the hundreds of thousands of dollars back that I paid in reliance on what, upon closer inspection, turned out to be a giant hoax. But I know that will never happen. So I'll just chalk it up to lessons learned.

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » October 25th, 2024, 10:42 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 3:51 pm
I have nothing but contempt for Ryan Smith after he extorted salt lake City for a billion dollars instead of spending it himself and is now spending his personal money to make ybu a national basketball power. I will never judge anyone for enjoying the hockey team, but I will never support it unless it gets a new owner.

I was told Smith was helping fund USU's PAC buy-in/MWC buy-out.

88USUAggie · Post by **88USUAggie** » October 25th, 2024, 10:42 am

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
October 22nd, 2024, 5:06 pm

Aggie702 wrote: ↑
October 22nd, 2024, 5:02 pm
And that's for a one and done. Wouldn't even be a 4 year legacy player.
How much money would it take for you to live in provo, with no sex, having everyone stare and act awkwardly around you for (at least) a year?

5 Mil seems about right.

I stopped at a BurgerKing once in Provo. I felt like someone owed me 5 Mil for having done so.

Dwigt · Post by **Dwigt** » October 25th, 2024, 1:33 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 10:42 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 3:51 pm
I have nothing but contempt for Ryan Smith after he extorted salt lake City for a billion dollars instead of spending it himself and is now spending his personal money to make ybu a national basketball power. I will never judge anyone for enjoying the hockey team, but I will never support it unless it gets a new owner.
I was told Smith was helping fund USU's PAC buy-in/MWC buy-out.

That may be true, and if it is, I really question what his motivation is behind it. Is he trying to turn USU into a farm team for BYU? He’ll have the best of both worlds offering top 10 recruits millions of dollars to come to BYU then pushing USU to recruit players that he can later offer large sums of money to move to Provo if they show promise.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » October 25th, 2024, 2:12 pm

Dwigt wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 1:33 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 10:42 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2024, 3:51 pm
I have nothing but contempt for Ryan Smith after he extorted salt lake City for a billion dollars instead of spending it himself and is now spending his personal money to make ybu a national basketball power. I will never judge anyone for enjoying the hockey team, but I will never support it unless it gets a new owner.
I was told Smith was helping fund USU's PAC buy-in/MWC buy-out.
That may be true, and if it is, I really question what his motivation is behind it. Is he trying to turn USU into a farm team for BYU? He’ll have the best of both worlds offering top 10 recruits millions of dollars to come to BYU then pushing USU to recruit players that he can later offer large sums of money to move to Provo if they show promise.

Yeah I would like confirmation that welfare queen Ryan has done this. Even if true, it is just further evidence he doesn't need to raise taxes on salt lake residents to fund his hobbies.

Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » October 25th, 2024, 3:35 pm

Idk what byu’s religion has to do with it. If I had 6 million to spare I’d outbid them for that player.

They’re playing the same game as everyone else.

However, byu sucks

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » October 25th, 2024, 5:13 pm

Imakeitrain wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 3:35 pm
Idk what byu’s religion has to do with it. If I had 6 million to spare I’d outbid them for that player.

They’re playing the same game as everyone else.

However, byu sucks

Yeah welfare queen Ryan doing the reverse robin hood by stealing from poor people against their will to fund his hobbies while he buys 5 star recruits for ybu is a stain on his character. It doesn't have anything to do with the LDS church

WAAggie · Post by **WAAggie** » October 25th, 2024, 8:28 pm

Fears similar to Dwight. Becoming BYU’s farm team to stash and allow us to coach them up, only to be stolen with Ryan Cash.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

justinmorrey · Post by **justinmorrey** » October 27th, 2024, 2:00 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 5:13 pm

Imakeitrain wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 3:35 pm
Idk what byu’s religion has to do with it. If I had 6 million to spare I’d outbid them for that player.

They’re playing the same game as everyone else.

However, byu sucks
Yeah welfare queen Ryan doing the reverse robin hood by stealing from poor people against their will to fund his hobbies while he buys 5 star recruits for ybu is a stain on his character. It doesn't have anything to do with the LDS church

You might be right, but what does that have to do with how the church uses its funds and the transparency with which they do it?

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » October 27th, 2024, 1:41 pm

justinmorrey wrote: ↑
October 27th, 2024, 2:00 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 5:13 pm

Imakeitrain wrote: ↑
October 25th, 2024, 3:35 pm
Idk what byu’s religion has to do with it. If I had 6 million to spare I’d outbid them for that player.

They’re playing the same game as everyone else.

However, byu sucks
Yeah welfare queen Ryan doing the reverse robin hood by stealing from poor people against their will to fund his hobbies while he buys 5 star recruits for ybu is a stain on his character. It doesn't have anything to do with the LDS church
You might be right, but what does that have to do with how the church uses its funds and the transparency with which they do it?

It doesn't. They are separate issues.

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