jprism wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 12:01 pm

SLB wrote:

jprism wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 10:47 am

SpartanDrew15 wrote:

SLB wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2024, 2:57 pm

San Jose State volleyball kept it a secret about the trans player, and the whole men in women's sports hit a critical point where a trans destroyed a girl's face, teeth, and brain in a high school volleyball game. This is part of why this continuing forfeit move is the right course of action.

FERPA is very strict about what kind of personal info about a student that a college can disclose to any third party, even the student's own parents. So if the student doesn't consent to having their gender identity disclosed, the school cannot discuss it period.

I was told last year (2023) that this player for SJSU was transgender and they showed me the picture of them. This information came from someone with close ties to the volleyball staff. Meaning, at least the staff knew of this player and them being transgender last year. I would assume the players knew as well.

While I agree with the university/players decision to forfeit and the message, it is interesting that they did not make the same decision last year and still played SJSU.

The San Jose State players in the lawsuit said that they were not told that the player is trans. It was 100% a secret.

All I’m saying someone in the coaching staff for USU volleyball knew last year. I have no knowledge of the SJSU players or coaching staff, just what was told to me by someone closely connected to a member of the USU staff

The San Jose State female players were not told according to them in the lawsuit.
San Jose State volleyball may get banished by this lawsuit.

ncs53 wrote:

jprism wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 10:47 am

While I agree with the university/players decision to forfeit and the message, it is interesting that they did not make the same decision last year and still played SJSU.

"If she was being abused for so long why didn't she complain earlier"

I see the point you’re trying to make. I guess I should rephrase my original comment and remove the last part about not saying or doing anything about it last year. I do support the volleyball team and their decision they made this year. Just thought I would add that I know without a doubt, at least one person on staff knew last year.

I've got to say, with all the mistakes our AD and university has made over the past decade or so and all the bad publicity that has come with that, it is refreshing to see Utah State on the right side of a women's rights and safety issue.

aggieguy13 wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 12:42 pm

I've got to say, with all the mistakes our AD and university has made over the past decade or so and all the bad publicity that has come with that, it is refreshing to see Utah State on the right side of a women's rights and safety issue.

If it takes the courts to sort this out, so be it.

I do admit the sports I follow most are men's basketball and football, but women deserve to play in their own leagues. However, watching my daughters play volleyball and other sports is more enjoyable to me than any other sport I watch as a spectator.

The net is at a lower level for them, few women hit 6' tall, and they should be allowed to compete against other biological females. This push is being mostly led by women in sports, including Nevada now.

https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/colleg ... 673509007/

Looks like the University of Nevada isn't siding with their players and have announced that the match will happen with or without their players.

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 3:51 pm

Looks like the University of Nevada isn't siding with their players and have announced that the match will happen with or without their players.

This could get interesting. I am glad USU decided to go the route they did, and if the girls were against playing that they supported them.

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 3:54 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 3:51 pm

Looks like the University of Nevada isn't siding with their players and have announced that the match will happen with or without their players.

This could get interesting. I am glad USU decided to go the route they did, and if the girls were against playing that they supported them.

Send those girls back into reeducation camps. I've never seen so much bigotry, hate and Transphobia. I'm going to go burn some Harry Potter books in solidarity.

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 3:54 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 3:51 pm

Looks like the University of Nevada isn't siding with their players and have announced that the match will happen with or without their players.

This could get interesting. I am glad USU decided to go the route they did, and if the girls were against playing that they supported them.

This is interesting, Nevada might save themselves a loss this way. Everyone knows the Nevada team won't play, now what is SJSU going to do? Pay to fly their team out to not play a game? Not only to not play the game, but to show up and make the protest against their team an even bigger headline?

Intentional or not, Nevada is forcing SJSU to make the next move in a situation that the SJSU has tried to ignore. Either SJSU cancels the game now and they take the L. Or the show up for their own protest.

Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

shoresy wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 4:21 pm

Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

I think you figured it out, men playing sports get more attention.

shoresy wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 4:21 pm

Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

Hey, I have watch most volleyball, soccer and gymnastics games/meets for the past 3 years. I even watched some wbb last year.

shoresy wrote:Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

“Perceive” ?


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shoresy wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 4:21 pm

Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

Listen, I said from a pure athletics standpoint, I have said men's basketball and football are the two most entertaining to watch. I don't watch as much baseball, soccer, or hockey for athletic entertainment.

I will catch a lot of Olympic sports, but watching my own 3 daughters play HS sports is more entertaining than any other sport out there. I don't expect to see the same level of play with them as I would see in college or in an Olympic match up, but I go to see them play against others their own age and similar skill set. I have no illusions they are making the Olympic team, but I do watch that from time to time. The issue is fairness.

I am not the only poster on here that watches/coaches his own daughters and friends in leagues. No one expects they will run as fast, jump as high, or have the same power moving a ball as the boys. That is the whole issue in this, and why women in sports are pushing this lawsuit.

shoresy wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 4:21 pm

Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

I didn't know I had to comment every time I watch a woman do something athletic, but I'll be sure to tag you every time from now on.

I've said this before in other threads - most women at the collegiate level and higher are technically more sound in their respective sports than guys. This is especially true in volleyball.

Even still, when playing at the intercollegiate volleyball club national championship tournament in Dallas as a student it was standing-room only watching utah play Michigan State. A couple of courts away there was a women's game going on with next to no one watching. The difference was the power and speed of the men's game, which was on a whole different level and frankly is more exciting for the general fan to watch. And while the women on the nearby court were better players, they just couldn't match the speed and power of the guys to draw the interest.

As a club team, we were all there paying our own way and figuring out our own training schedules with little overall support from USU. While the USU women's team was supported by the school and made the NCAA tournament during my time a student. Although there we some all-time greats USU players at the time, I have no doubt that our club team would have crushed them even though we were mostly a ragtag group of self-taught v-ball players.

Even without formal v-ball training, as a student assistant coach at my high school in Southern California the head coach of the women's team told me to go easy when putting up blocks on the hitting line on the all-CIF player because I would shut her down most of the time.

These experiences have helped shape my own opinion on this topic. Additionally, there are indisputable physiological differences between biological men and women. There are also frequent mental and emotional trait differences that are less pronounced but are still commonly recognized. One example is that men are generally more aggressive and violent than women, which is often a positive trait in athletics. It doesn't matter what drugs you take or what surgeries you receive, none of that changes at the biological level who or what you are.

Because of these innate differences, biological women have every right to compete only against other biological women unless those playing on the court decide otherwise. No university or conference administrator should be making that decision. Nor should any sports writer or activist be shaming women for taking a stand on refusing to play against a biological man self-identifying as a woman.

shoresy wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 4:21 pm

Ironic that the only thing that has gotten most of the men on the board to give a single solitary (I can't express myself without swearing) about women's sports is someone who they perceive as a man playing them, no?

Our 11th ranked soccer team played a MW championship rematch game and probably the most important game of their season on Sunday, and I was largely talking to myself in the game thread. But the scary others get involved and we get 100+ posts across two different threads of people who are suddenly extremely invested.

An Internet message board? Interested in controversial
subjects?

I thought we can only be true fans if we donated $100k?

jprism wrote: ↑

October 14th, 2024, 10:47 am

SpartanDrew15 wrote:

SLB wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2024, 2:57 pm

San Jose State volleyball kept it a secret about the trans player, and the whole men in women's sports hit a critical point where a trans destroyed a girl's face, teeth, and brain in a high school volleyball game. This is part of why this continuing forfeit move is the right course of action.

FERPA is very strict about what kind of personal info about a student that a college can disclose to any third party, even the student's own parents. So if the student doesn't consent to having their gender identity disclosed, the school cannot discuss it period.

I was told last year (2023) that this player for SJSU was transgender and they showed me the picture of them. This information came from someone with close ties to the volleyball staff. Meaning, at least the staff knew of this player and them being transgender last year. I would assume the players knew as well.

While I agree with the university/players decision to forfeit and the message, it is interesting that they did not make the same decision last year and still played SJSU.

For much of last season, that SJSU player was injured. The 11/9/23 game in Logan was her first game back from injury, and she had a horrible .095 hitting percentage that day.

And back in 2022, USU was 2-1 against SJSU including a USU win in the MW championship game. In those games, BF was only the third or fourth best scorer on SJSU - due to a combination of SJSU having a much more stacked roster then than now, and USU obviously being so much better too.

Did you see two ex-USU players posting TikTok comments defending the SJSU player?

This looks like a fair and even race. Wonder who won this high school race?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/sports/c ... 29769.html

lol.

They want their $1,200.

Boise should pay that on the condition that SJSU then sends $1,200 worth of hot dogs, popcorn and soda. And if the hot dogs aren’t hit when served Boise gets a refund.

Gloria Nevarez says she isn't sure why teams are forfeiting.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... -situation

"I'm learning a lot about the issue," Nevarez said. "I don't know a lot of the language yet or the science or the understanding nationally of how this issue plays out. The external influences are so far on either side. We have an election year. It's political, so yeah, it feels like a no-win based on all the external pressure."

All of these women athletes are just doing this as a political stunt I guess.

The Political Left's war on women continues, despite these minor pushbacks.

Gloria just shows she is ignorant or a coward. The ignorance card is not a good card to play here.

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 18th, 2024, 8:48 am

Gloria Nevarez says she isn't sure why teams are forfeiting.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... -situation

"I'm learning a lot about the issue," Nevarez said. "I don't know a lot of the language yet or the science or the understanding nationally of how this issue plays out. The external influences are so far on either side. We have an election year. It's political, so yeah, it feels like a no-win based on all the external pressure."

All of these women athletes are just doing this as a political stunt I guess.

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

I hate that this issue is in the political arena rather than solved by sport organizations. My issue is more with high school sports than college sports, but there has to be a balance between competitive issue and inclusion issues. Taking it out of the political arena would also allow for less emotional nuanced solutions. Allowing trans athletes a competitive edge is not the answer, but blanket bans on participation is also not the answer.

I suppose the only positive of all this is many men are paying attention to women's sport for the first time in their lives.

Stucki wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 9:26 am

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 18th, 2024, 8:48 am

Gloria Nevarez says she isn't sure why teams are forfeiting.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... -situation

"I'm learning a lot about the issue," Nevarez said. "I don't know a lot of the language yet or the science or the understanding nationally of how this issue plays out. The external influences are so far on either side. We have an election year. It's political, so yeah, it feels like a no-win based on all the external pressure."

All of these women athletes are just doing this as a political stunt I guess.

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

I hate that this issue is in the political arena rather than solved by sport organizations. My issue is more with high school sports than college sports, but there has to be a balance between competitive issue and inclusion issues. Taking it out of the political arena would also allow for less emotional nuanced solutions. Allowing trans athletes a competitive edge is not the answer, but blanket bans on participation is also not the answer.

I suppose the only positive of all this is many men are paying attention to women's sport for the first time in their lives.

In the case of Nevada, it was the girls on the team that pushed it. I don't know about USU or SUU, but I don't think state leaders pushed SUU to forfeit.

I was a slightly above average track and XC athlete in High School. I was a varsity runner, not the fastest, but 3rd on the team, and very close to All-Region in XC my senior year in 4A. I never was elite, but I did this with just the right body build for distance events, and training during the season. My offseason workouts were hit and miss. Even doing this, I was much faster than all of the girls, and could beat the girl's state records.

There was a transgender athlete, Juniper (June) Eastwood, who won the Mile race in the Big Sky Championships 2020 from Montana. A runner from SUU joined in the lawsuit after losing because of the inherent unfairness a biological male has in track and field events. Honestly, the time for a male college athlete was not impressive. I beat this time in a USU conditioning PE class, not even in a race and no one was pushing me after a mission just running 3 times a week. I was not a college runner either. If I had been working out with a team on the track, lifting under direction of coaches, and following the dietary requirements competitive teams have, it wouldn't have even been close. The male body is just so different from the female in terms of build.

My issue is that mediocre athletes are taking scholarships, taking awards from girls who have trained for years to reach the level they obtained, and then are celebrated as heroes (ESPN named Lia Thomas woman of the year.)

Most of us have daughters, nieces, or other girls we know who play sports. Even female family members tell me that from simply an entertainment standpoint that male sports are more visually appealing, but it doesn't mean we don't care about the pursuits those with XX chromosomes have. Like many others, I have sat through hours and hours of girls' competitions just to watch them play something they enjoy.



https://flatheadbeacon.com/2021/05/05/t ... imination/

Stucki wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 9:26 am

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 18th, 2024, 8:48 am

Gloria Nevarez says she isn't sure why teams are forfeiting.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... -situation

"I'm learning a lot about the issue," Nevarez said. "I don't know a lot of the language yet or the science or the understanding nationally of how this issue plays out. The external influences are so far on either side. We have an election year. It's political, so yeah, it feels like a no-win based on all the external pressure."

All of these women athletes are just doing this as a political stunt I guess.

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

It absolutely was.

Now, would our team have chosen to forfeit on their own? I have no idea. There are obviously at least a few players who feel on the team who feel strongly about it. But it was not the players or coaches who made this decision.

shoresy wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 10:38 am

Stucki wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 9:26 am

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 18th, 2024, 8:48 am

Gloria Nevarez says she isn't sure why teams are forfeiting.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... -situation

"I'm learning a lot about the issue," Nevarez said. "I don't know a lot of the language yet or the science or the understanding nationally of how this issue plays out. The external influences are so far on either side. We have an election year. It's political, so yeah, it feels like a no-win based on all the external pressure."

All of these women athletes are just doing this as a political stunt I guess.

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

It absolutely was.

Now, would our team have chosen to forfeit on their own? I have no idea. There are obviously at least a few players who feel on the team who feel strongly about it. But it was not the players or coaches who made this decision.

I'm pretty sure that the women on the team would have made the same choice.

tjensen_25 wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 10:56 am

shoresy wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 10:38 am

Stucki wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 9:26 am

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑

October 18th, 2024, 8:48 am

Gloria Nevarez says she isn't sure why teams are forfeiting.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... -situation

"I'm learning a lot about the issue," Nevarez said. "I don't know a lot of the language yet or the science or the understanding nationally of how this issue plays out. The external influences are so far on either side. We have an election year. It's political, so yeah, it feels like a no-win based on all the external pressure."

All of these women athletes are just doing this as a political stunt I guess.

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

It absolutely was.

Now, would our team have chosen to forfeit on their own? I have no idea. There are obviously at least a few players who feel on the team who feel strongly about it. But it was not the players or coaches who made this decision.

I'm pretty sure that the women on the team would have made the same choice.

Those four women maybe would have. Or maybe if the rest of their team was intent on playing and didn't want to take an automatic loss, they would have played. Or maybe those who wanted to play would have played without those who didn't. Who knows. I just think its disappointing that the decision wasn't left to them.

Do I understand correctly? Are there those who would disapprove of the State or its subdivision (like USU) took action in support of female athletes, college or high school, to prevent unfair competition and co'opting of scholarships by males?

Seems to me Title IX compels such action ... as for instance in the case of on campus sexual assault (which is, honestly, a more indirect application of Title IX's language).

It shows why the MWC collapsed. Stupid leadership leads to stupid decisions.
This situation is a slam dunk, and the MWC refuses to resolve this in the correct manner. Decisions like this do not stop at one bad decision.

Stucki wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 9:26 am

* * *

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

I hate that this issue is in the political arena rather than solved by sport organizations. My issue is more with high school sports than college sports, but there has to be a balance between competitive issue and inclusion issues. Taking it out of the political arena would also allow for less emotional nuanced solutions. Allowing trans athletes a competitive edge is not the answer, but blanket bans on participation is also not the answer.

I suppose the only positive of all this is many men are paying attention to women's sport for the first time in their lives.

Let's say you're the Czar of Athletics in America. Describe what this would look like. Maybe start with who has the burden of proof, and why.

a mute/hide thread feature would be so great for topics like this

cowcollege wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 3:37 pm

a mute/hide thread feature would be so great for topics like this

No self control?

TrueAG wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 3:47 pm

cowcollege wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 3:37 pm

a mute/hide thread feature would be so great for topics like this

No self control?

It just goes quiet for days and then zombifies back up with absolutely no new information. Just the same circle over and over and over again (and now I’m contributing to it)

Golfer stops competing as they are tired of holding back as they know they can kick the biological women’s (I can't express myself without swearing). Realize women are losing opportunities to win if they, as a trans competes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OKAggie wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 2:56 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑

October 21st, 2024, 9:26 am

* * *

In Wyoming's case it was. The athletic department was getting pressure from legislative leaders. I don't know about our case, but it wouldn't shock me.

I hate that this issue is in the political arena rather than solved by sport organizations. My issue is more with high school sports than college sports, but there has to be a balance between competitive issue and inclusion issues. Taking it out of the political arena would also allow for less emotional nuanced solutions. Allowing trans athletes a competitive edge is not the answer, but blanket bans on participation is also not the answer.

I suppose the only positive of all this is many men are paying attention to women's sport for the first time in their lives.

Let's say you're the Czar of Athletics in America. Describe what this would look like. Maybe start with who has the burden of proof, and why.

What the heck, this is way above my paygrade as a high school coach, here goes.
1) Get the issue out of state legislative bodies and the political arena where it does nothing but cause problems.
2) For college sports and post-collegiate sports (including all pro leagues), follow the lead of each international sport governing body, as each sport has different issues. If they are allowed to play internationally, then they can play that sport in the collegiate setting if not, they can't.
3) High school is more difficult as most kids just want a place to feel included. I don't like a banket ban for high schools because there are kids who could compete in high school sports and no one would notice. I don't have a problem with them competing. The problem is that for some kids the inclusion issue has to be trumped by the competitive issue. As a track coach, I don't want a boy that can jump up and grab the rim with both hands transition and then compete in the jumps as a girl and rewrite state records. You could find similar examples in all the other sports as well where competitive balance issues would outweigh inclusion issues. This is difficult and it would suck to be the one that has to tell kids, I'm sorry, you can't compete because you are too good.
4) Do a case study of each trans-athlete at both high school and college level to determine actual competitive advantage issues. For example, is one year of treatment enough to offset most of the biological advantages. Is there a treatment level or time period that would negate enough of the biological advantages?

Also specific to high school sports, the hysteria driven by culture wars is causing damage. There have been a few instances where parents in the stands are essentially asking to see the crotch of a high school kid, because they "look like a guy".

I'm not sure how to address burden of proof, I would refer back to the protocols that were being put in place over the last decade before it became a political issue, records of medical treatment for the required time period and the like. Athletes who merely identify as trans shouldn't be allowed to compete unless it is a truly coed sport.

I obviously don't have all the answers, but these are some of the considerations for the issue.