Costs to have a Hockey Team:

Bullnamed_gus · Post by **Bullnamed_gus** » September 28th, 2024, 8:52 am

Why is everyone so quick to throw away the idea of adding a Division 1 Hockey team?

We have a Pro Hockey team in Utah. Cache Valley loves the club team.

You can look here. Wisconsin, one of the highest schools’ team costs about 5 million to run. Obviously we aren’t the biggest hockey program yet, I’ve also read elsewhere that schools Cornell cost about 2 million a year. Which is closer to where we would be.

https://uwbadgers.com/sports/2015/08/21/GEN_20140101293

Can we really not get there? I think it’s possible and would be really valuable to be the first program in Utah.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » September 28th, 2024, 9:01 am

There is a lawsuit making it's way through the system right now that if the NCAA loses (as we know they do typically lose) will allow CHL players to move to the NCAA.

The CHL has more players drafted than anyone else by a long, long ways. If those players can move to the NCAA there will be way more hockey talent to choose from.

It would be a good time to start a program if we're ever going to.

shoresy · Post by **shoresy** » September 28th, 2024, 9:53 am

Boy, we're on this again? Not only are we not close to even considering adding another team, I'd venture to guess there are at least 5-10 teams we'd add ahead of hockey if we ever did. Which we wont. We have 14 teams for a very specific reason.

Also I have no idea how you're figuring it would only cost the same amount as Cornell, who by the looks of it, had one single non-bus travel trip last season. Ours would be far, far more expensive given that there would not be a single bussable trip, other than possibly the Colorado schools (though none of our olympic sports bus to Colorado). Not to mention the multi-million dollar program we'd need to add on the women's side to balance scholarships.

Hockey is my favorite sport, but it just aint happening.

blueblood · Post by **blueblood** » September 28th, 2024, 10:21 am

I did my Masters Degree at DU and we lived right next Magness Arena (DU’s hockey/basketball facility). DU and all the other D-1 hockey teams in Colorado (except for AF) exsist because the schools don’t have football. When you don’t have football you have 85 men’s scholarships for the men’s sports like hockey, soccer, wrestling, lacrosse, etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

josephconlin · Post by **josephconlin** » September 28th, 2024, 12:20 pm

Remember this thread you started a year ago about having a baseball team? There's even a few hockey mentions in that thread. The details given there apply to adding any male sports at USU. Do you believe the concerns raised in that thread have been resolved now?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=66199

Bullnamed_gus · Post by **Bullnamed_gus** » September 28th, 2024, 12:29 pm

shoresy wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 9:53 am
Boy, we're on this again? Not only are we not close to even considering adding another team, I'd venture to guess there are at least 5-10 teams we'd add ahead of hockey if we ever did. Which we wont. We have 14 teams for a very specific reason.

Also I have no idea how you're figuring it would only cost the same amount as Cornell, who by the looks of it, had one single non-bus travel trip last season. Ours would be far, far more expensive given that there would not be a single bussable trip, other than possibly the Colorado schools (though none of our olympic sports bus to Colorado). Not to mention the multi-million dollar program we'd need to add on the women's side to balance scholarships.

Hockey is my favorite sport, but it just aint happening.

Give me some legitimate reasons why we can’t? Money? Even if we are closer to Wisconsin or Minnesota (4-5m a years) doable. We could easily drop Golf(9 scholarships) annd men’s tennis(7) add Hockey, (26 spots) and find a women’s sport to field 10 more spots. (Woman’s golf, or something else? )

I imagine our hockey club team does really well

Arizona State has a team. There’s a few in Colorado.

It’s a prime time to do it. Because if not Utah or BYU will get one first, and if we are the first it would be great time to grow a fan base. Lots of kids are going to be playing hockey in Utah over the next 10 years and it’s smart to capitalize.

We’re not little old Utah state anymore my friend

Bullnamed_gus · Post by **Bullnamed_gus** » September 28th, 2024, 12:33 pm

josephconlin wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 12:20 pm
Remember this thread you started a year ago about having a baseball team? There's even a few hockey mentions in that thread. The details given there apply to adding any male sports at USU. Do you believe the concerns raised in that thread have been resolved now?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=66199

I would love Baseball, but I imagine Hockey would be better to add first as we already have the arena, already have a built in fan base with the club team. And have an NHL team playing games in Utah in just weeks.

And yes I think the money is there. Drop golf and Tennis(brings absolutely no revenue or excitement to the school, just cost) and add Hockey.

josephconlin · Post by **josephconlin** » September 28th, 2024, 1:00 pm

Bullnamed_gus wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 12:33 pm

josephconlin wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 12:20 pm
Remember this thread you started a year ago about having a baseball team? There's even a few hockey mentions in that thread. The details given there apply to adding any male sports at USU. Do you believe the concerns raised in that thread have been resolved now?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=66199
I would love Baseball, but I imagine Hockey would be better to add first as we already have the arena, already have a built in fan base with the club team. And have an NHL team playing games in Utah in just weeks.

And yes I think the money is there. Drop golf and Tennis(brings absolutely no revenue or excitement to the school, just cost) and add Hockey.

We can't drop more men's teams than we add if we want to stay Division I FBS and join the Pac-12 conference.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/5/11/o ... mbers.aspx

NCAA wrote: To be a Division I member, FBS schools must sponsor a minimum of 16 sports, and FCS and Division I Subdivision schools must sponsor a minimum of 14 sports.

https://www.usu.edu/campus-life/recreation/

USU wrote: USU Aggies compete in 16 varsity sports as part of the Mountain West Conference.

StanfordAggie · Post by **StanfordAggie** » September 28th, 2024, 2:03 pm

There is also the issue that they are about to raise the scholarship limit for football to 105. That means that we have to add 20 more scholarships for women's sports and/or cut 20 scholarships from other men's sports. If we add hockey (or any other men's sport), this problem gets even worse. I think adding any men's sports is a pipe dream for the foreseeable future.

shoresy · Post by **shoresy** » September 28th, 2024, 2:51 pm

Bullnamed_gus wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 12:29 pm

shoresy wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 9:53 am
Boy, we're on this again? Not only are we not close to even considering adding another team, I'd venture to guess there are at least 5-10 teams we'd add ahead of hockey if we ever did. Which we wont. We have 14 teams for a very specific reason.

Also I have no idea how you're figuring it would only cost the same amount as Cornell, who by the looks of it, had one single non-bus travel trip last season. Ours would be far, far more expensive given that there would not be a single bussable trip, other than possibly the Colorado schools (though none of our olympic sports bus to Colorado). Not to mention the multi-million dollar program we'd need to add on the women's side to balance scholarships.

Hockey is my favorite sport, but it just aint happening.
Give me some legitimate reasons why we can’t? Money? Even if we are closer to Wisconsin or Minnesota (4-5m a years) doable. We could easily drop Golf(9 scholarships) annd men’s tennis(7) add Hockey, (26 spots) and find a women’s sport to field 10 more spots. (Woman’s golf, or something else? )

I imagine our hockey club team does really well

Arizona State has a team. There’s a few in Colorado.

It’s a prime time to do it. Because if not Utah or BYU will get one first, and if we are the first it would be great time to grow a fan base. Lots of kids are going to be playing hockey in Utah over the next 10 years and it’s smart to capitalize.

We’re not little old Utah state anymore my friend

I don't need legitimate REASONS, there's just one REASON. Money. Period.

We can spend money on the sports we already have - maybe see if we can get out of the bottom 10 team in FBS football, bolster and add more stability to our men's basketball program, give our soccer and volleyball teams the facilities they deserve, fix our decrepit basketball arena - or add an entirely new sport. Not to mention that we'd also need an arena. The Eccles, even after renovations, only seats 2,000.

And I would not be in favor of cutting the single most successful USU program of the past decade, men's tennis.

CanofShiz · Post by **CanofShiz** » September 28th, 2024, 5:25 pm

shoresy wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 2:51 pm

Bullnamed_gus wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 12:29 pm

shoresy wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2024, 9:53 am
Boy, we're on this again? Not only are we not close to even considering adding another team, I'd venture to guess there are at least 5-10 teams we'd add ahead of hockey if we ever did. Which we wont. We have 14 teams for a very specific reason.

Also I have no idea how you're figuring it would only cost the same amount as Cornell, who by the looks of it, had one single non-bus travel trip last season. Ours would be far, far more expensive given that there would not be a single bussable trip, other than possibly the Colorado schools (though none of our olympic sports bus to Colorado). Not to mention the multi-million dollar program we'd need to add on the women's side to balance scholarships.

Hockey is my favorite sport, but it just aint happening.
Give me some legitimate reasons why we can’t? Money? Even if we are closer to Wisconsin or Minnesota (4-5m a years) doable. We could easily drop Golf(9 scholarships) annd men’s tennis(7) add Hockey, (26 spots) and find a women’s sport to field 10 more spots. (Woman’s golf, or something else? )

I imagine our hockey club team does really well

Arizona State has a team. There’s a few in Colorado.

It’s a prime time to do it. Because if not Utah or BYU will get one first, and if we are the first it would be great time to grow a fan base. Lots of kids are going to be playing hockey in Utah over the next 10 years and it’s smart to capitalize.

We’re not little old Utah state anymore my friend
I don't need legitimate REASONS, there's just one REASON. Money. Period.

We can spend money on the sports we already have - maybe see if we can get out of the bottom 10 team in FBS football, bolster and add more stability to our men's basketball program, give our soccer and volleyball teams the facilities they deserve, fix our decrepit basketball arena - or add an entirely new sport. Not to mention that we'd also need an arena. The Eccles, even after renovations, only seats 2,000.

And I would not be in favor of cutting the single most successful USU program of the past decade, men's tennis.

I've heard that hockey is our third highest revenuing sport. If USU were to make them offical I'm sure that would change with scholarships etc. Right now the team has to pay their own way. I think USU is only paying the headcoach 5k per year and the rest of the staff are basically volunteers. The players do their own fundraising. Pretty remarkable they are able to generate a profit, that is if what I heard is true.

Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » September 29th, 2024, 12:51 am

We wouldn’t be able to compete as ncaa division 1 team. Asking to go from club team to NCAA D1 is gargantuan.
It isn’t like jumping from FCS to FBS. It’s like jumping from DII/DIII to FBS. Those Denver teams they play/used to play, were Denver’s club team, not their NCAA team. Idk if Weber is still “d1” but that was also a D1 club team. Not NCAA

Utah will not have a significant recruiting base. That just isn’t how hockey works. It’s not like football. It’s more like basketball on steroids.

In football every HS has a team. HS players can show their skill by playing against local teams and that’s how recruiting operates.

In basketball, the recruiting for college, especially the star recruits is largely done out of AAU. Because in a given HS there aren’t many 6’7” kids but in the entire wasatch front you can make 1 team and then showcase at tournaments.

In hockey, kids have to move away from their family at 15 to play Junior hockey just to be on a team that matches their skill and to face the type of competition needed to be recruited.

I wish it weren’t so. There are significant problems with this system, so I do want hockey to get to the point where billeting isn’t needed. As much as I love hockey, it turns out it’s a really bad idea to take a bunch of teen boys away from their family and move them to often remote cold areas. Hockey alone plays a big enough toll on mental health.

Carey Price who was/is widely regarded as one of the best people in the game and even he had some fairly significant demons that maybe could have been avoided with a more traditional upbringing than juniors.

All that to say, recruiting Utah wouldn’t work because anyone who would be good enough to play NCAA from Utah is probably playing in Saskatoon or something anyway.

shoresy · Post by **shoresy** » September 29th, 2024, 1:36 pm

Imakeitrain wrote: ↑
September 29th, 2024, 12:51 am
We wouldn’t be able to compete as ncaa division 1 team. Asking to go from club team to NCAA D1 is gargantuan.
It isn’t like jumping from FCS to FBS. It’s like jumping from DII/DIII to FBS. Those Denver teams they play/used to play, were Denver’s club team, not their NCAA team. Idk if Weber is still “d1” but that was also a D1 club team. Not NCAA

Utah will not have a significant recruiting base. That just isn’t how hockey works. It’s not like football. It’s more like basketball on steroids.

In football every HS has a team. HS players can show their skill by playing against local teams and that’s how recruiting operates.

In basketball, the recruiting for college, especially the star recruits is largely done out of AAU. Because in a given HS there aren’t many 6’7” kids but in the entire wasatch front you can make 1 team and then showcase at tournaments.

In hockey, kids have to move away from their family at 15 to play Junior hockey just to be on a team that matches their skill and to face the type of competition needed to be recruited.

I wish it weren’t so. There are significant problems with this system, so I do want hockey to get to the point where billeting isn’t needed. As much as I love hockey, it turns out it’s a really bad idea to take a bunch of teen boys away from their family and move them to often remote cold areas. Hockey alone plays a big enough toll on mental health.

Carey Price who was/is widely regarded as one of the best people in the game and even he had some fairly significant demons that maybe could have been avoided with a more traditional upbringing than juniors.

All that to say, recruiting Utah wouldn’t work because anyone who would be good enough to play NCAA from Utah is probably playing in Saskatoon or something anyway.

Interesting. I know very little about college hockey as I don't have a ton of interest in watching a sport dominated by various Dakota schools, Denver and Quinnipiac. But it does seem like recruiting to Utah would be extremely challenging.

UHSAA doesn't even sponsor hockey. Additionally, every single hockey national champion since BC in 2012 is a school that either doesn't have football or puts very few resources into football. It seems that the key to being competitive is playing somewhere that hockey is a big deal and making it the main priority of your athletics department.

usugoalie13 · Post by **usugoalie13** » September 29th, 2024, 1:53 pm

Most university hockey teams are not recruiting locally. The Michigan, Minnesota schools, sure, but the other schools are also recruiting there. A lot come from Canada. Denver has three players from Colorado. A Utah school obviously wouldn't be recruiting from Utah but that's not a strange concept.
In the college hockey world, there is a big push to move teams to NCAA out west. Oregon and SDSU have move up to Div 1 club. UNLV, Utah are also div 1.
Clearly our club team would not move up to NCAA. You would have to bring in all new players, but ASU just did it. They also still have their club teams. It can be done. For the title IX stuff. The easiest is just to do a men's and women's team. Then you have equal numbers.

SLB · Post by **SLB** » September 29th, 2024, 2:38 pm

I am believer that Utah State could successfully have a D1 hockey team. People show up to club hockey games.
Once the PAC monies start coming in, we would have the resources to make it happen.

SectionBAggie · Post by **SectionBAggie** » September 29th, 2024, 9:11 pm

The NCAA currently lists 64 D1 Men’s hockey teams. 0 in the Pacific Time Zone. 4 in the Mountain Time Zone. 3 of those are in Colorado. Travel costs would be very problematic.

CacheCow · Post by **CacheCow** » September 29th, 2024, 9:24 pm

Only way we’re getting a hockey team is if a donor specifically requests that their multi-million dollar donation is used to start and perpetually fund a team (and a women’s sport with equal scholarships)

Bullnamed_gus · Post by **Bullnamed_gus** » October 5th, 2024, 5:57 am

SLB · Post by **SLB** » October 5th, 2024, 9:23 pm

SectionBAggie wrote: ↑
September 29th, 2024, 9:11 pm
The NCAA currently lists 64 D1 Men’s hockey teams. 0 in the Pacific Time Zone. 4 in the Mountain Time Zone. 3 of those are in Colorado. Travel costs would be very problematic.

NCHC
(2 from Colorado, 1 from Arizona, 1 from Nebraska, 1 from North Dakota, 2 from Minnestoa, 1 from Ohio, and 1 from Michigan)

AggieInTucson · Post by **AggieInTucson** » October 27th, 2024, 3:25 pm

I love hockey as much as anyone, but to fit in with the PAC, Utah State should really start with baseball, especially if the media deal is substantial.

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