New BYU Medical School

tovli · Post by **tovli** » July 29th, 2024, 10:25 am

Well this probably sinks our chances of adding a medical program

Section_L_Aggie · Post by **Section_L_Aggie** » July 29th, 2024, 10:31 am

FromLItoLogan · Post by **FromLItoLogan** » July 29th, 2024, 10:55 am

There goes any shot *if we had any* of getting one. Besides veterinarian that we just added what other big programs can we add besides medical and law?

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

Partner with IHC, great idea. Well, at least someone is doing it.

Aggiealum13 · Post by **Aggiealum13** » July 29th, 2024, 11:34 am

FromLItoLogan wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 10:55 am
There goes any shot *if we had any* of getting one. Besides veterinarian that we just added what other big programs can we add besides medical and law?

We were never going to get a medical school because of the University of Utah. The state rarely allows two medical schools unless you are a major state like Texas, California, Michigan, etc.

BYU being a private school could pull this off. Medically everyone has their niche. For USU it is the vet school. Just run with it.

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » July 29th, 2024, 12:17 pm

tovli wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 10:25 am

Well this probably sinks our chances of adding a medical program

This will have no negative impact on USU. Maybe a small one on the U of U, but likely not.

When the Vet school was added, it actually led to a research collaboration between the U of U and USU since animal research occurs before medical research. That could happen with this as well.

Having a former heart surgeon as the leader of the faith played a big role in this I imagine.

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm

Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.

LarryTheAggie · Post by **LarryTheAggie** » July 29th, 2024, 12:48 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 11:31 am
Partner with IHC, great idea. Well, at least someone is doing it.

I mean, maybe it opens the door for USU to do it too. How many medical schools are partnered with DMC and Henery Ford in Detroit? (I ask because you are in detroit) cetrointly Wanye State and Central Michigan. It seems every time I take my daughter to an appointment at DMC there are medical students from a different university.

If IHC is already partnered with one university does that open them up to partner with more? Probably not, but maybe.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 29th, 2024, 1:05 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.

No idea what BYU’s philosophy will be, but Utah’s is “screw Utah residents at all costs”. I went to med school with many UofU graduates, they certainly don’t give their students any preferential treatment. Utah goes as far as to give students in-state status if they graduated from a Utah high school or graduated from a college in Utah. So all 50 million of the byu applicants from all over the world are considered in-state students in the application process. I hate BYU as much as anyone, but I’m glad they’re taking advantage of the gaping hole in medical education in the state. I just wish the state government and USU had been a little more proactive. There is no reason this couldn’t be USU instead of BYU.

Tetonkatest · Post by **Tetonkatest** » July 29th, 2024, 2:28 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 1:05 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.
No idea what BYU’s philosophy will be, but Utah’s is “screw Utah residents at all costs”. I went to med school with many UofU graduates, they certainly don’t give their students any preferential treatment. Utah goes as far as to give students in-state status if they graduated from a Utah high school or graduated from a college in Utah. So all 50 million of the byu applicants from all over the world are considered in-state students in the application process. I hate BYU as much as anyone, but I’m glad they’re taking advantage of the gaping hole in medical education in the state. I just wish the state government and USU had been a little more proactive. There is no reason this couldn’t be USU instead of BYU.

I read that BYU / LDS Church is going to use this as a vehicle to bring in a lot of LDS international students from more impoverished countries with the goal of sending them back to their country of origin with a high quality of medical training to improve health outcomes for populations in need. And that it will be strictly teaching focused---not so much research.

I guess we'll see.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 29th, 2024, 3:02 pm

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 2:28 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 1:05 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.
No idea what BYU’s philosophy will be, but Utah’s is “screw Utah residents at all costs”. I went to med school with many UofU graduates, they certainly don’t give their students any preferential treatment. Utah goes as far as to give students in-state status if they graduated from a Utah high school or graduated from a college in Utah. So all 50 million of the byu applicants from all over the world are considered in-state students in the application process. I hate BYU as much as anyone, but I’m glad they’re taking advantage of the gaping hole in medical education in the state. I just wish the state government and USU had been a little more proactive. There is no reason this couldn’t be USU instead of BYU.
I read that BYU / LDS Church is going to use this as a vehicle to bring in a lot of LDS international students from more impoverished countries with the goal of sending them back to their country of origin with a high quality of medical training to improve health outcomes for populations in need. And that it will be strictly teaching focused---not so much research.

I guess we'll see.

It certainly won’t be to help the locals. I truly don’t have an issue with BYU as an academic institution that it should ideally be. Like BYU-I. I hate their pompous-(I can't express myself without swearing) fans, their con-school (business school, whatever), and obviously their self-righteous athletic department. They want to start a med school? If I lived in Utah I’d 100% support that. I just wish the state of Utah gave a damn.

Tetonkatest · Post by **Tetonkatest** » July 29th, 2024, 3:49 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 3:02 pm

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 2:28 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 1:05 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.
No idea what BYU’s philosophy will be, but Utah’s is “screw Utah residents at all costs”. I went to med school with many UofU graduates, they certainly don’t give their students any preferential treatment. Utah goes as far as to give students in-state status if they graduated from a Utah high school or graduated from a college in Utah. So all 50 million of the byu applicants from all over the world are considered in-state students in the application process. I hate BYU as much as anyone, but I’m glad they’re taking advantage of the gaping hole in medical education in the state. I just wish the state government and USU had been a little more proactive. There is no reason this couldn’t be USU instead of BYU.
I read that BYU / LDS Church is going to use this as a vehicle to bring in a lot of LDS international students from more impoverished countries with the goal of sending them back to their country of origin with a high quality of medical training to improve health outcomes for populations in need. And that it will be strictly teaching focused---not so much research.

I guess we'll see.
It certainly won’t be to help the locals. I truly don’t have an issue with BYU as an academic institution that it should ideally be. Like BYU-I. I hate their pompous-(I can't express myself without swearing) fans, their con-school (business school, whatever), and obviously their self-righteous athletic department. They want to start a med school? If I lived in Utah I’d 100% support that. I just wish the state of Utah gave a damn.

I'm not in the State of Utah, but my understanding is that the University of Utah was extremely biased against admitting USU and BYU kids to their Medical School. And that the quiet reason was that their admin didn't want a medical school of all LDS students. (Not unlike Noelle Cockett refusing to hire an LDS football coach).

That said, my understanding as well is that Utah has no shortage of well trained doctors because culturally, so many LDS pursue higher education, including medical school. Many LDS also become doctors through the military. Not sure about if there is a nursing shortage and other professions in healthcare.

Section_L_Aggie · Post by **Section_L_Aggie** » July 29th, 2024, 4:58 pm

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 3:49 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 3:02 pm

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 2:28 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 1:05 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.
No idea what BYU’s philosophy will be, but Utah’s is “screw Utah residents at all costs”. I went to med school with many UofU graduates, they certainly don’t give their students any preferential treatment. Utah goes as far as to give students in-state status if they graduated from a Utah high school or graduated from a college in Utah. So all 50 million of the byu applicants from all over the world are considered in-state students in the application process. I hate BYU as much as anyone, but I’m glad they’re taking advantage of the gaping hole in medical education in the state. I just wish the state government and USU had been a little more proactive. There is no reason this couldn’t be USU instead of BYU.
I read that BYU / LDS Church is going to use this as a vehicle to bring in a lot of LDS international students from more impoverished countries with the goal of sending them back to their country of origin with a high quality of medical training to improve health outcomes for populations in need. And that it will be strictly teaching focused---not so much research.

I guess we'll see.
It certainly won’t be to help the locals. I truly don’t have an issue with BYU as an academic institution that it should ideally be. Like BYU-I. I hate their pompous-(I can't express myself without swearing) fans, their con-school (business school, whatever), and obviously their self-righteous athletic department. They want to start a med school? If I lived in Utah I’d 100% support that. I just wish the state of Utah gave a damn.
I'm not in the State of Utah, but my understanding is that the University of Utah was extremely biased against admitting USU and BYU kids to their Medical School. And that the quiet reason was that their admin didn't want a medical school of all LDS students. (Not unlike Noelle Cockett refusing to hire an LDS football coach).

That said, my understanding as well is that Utah has no shortage of well trained doctors because culturally, so many LDS pursue higher education, including medical school. Many LDS also become doctors through the military. Not sure about if there is a nursing shortage and other professions in healthcare.

Yes, the U held it against applicants if they were in state and went to either of the other schools. I'm glad they did in my case as I ended up going to Arizona and had a great experience there.

The state of Utah needs more primary care physicians, and particularly Geriatricians. If this new school has a big focus on primary care and even, miracle of miracles, on Geriatrics then I could more on board with it.

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » July 29th, 2024, 6:50 pm

That's as many be, but would you hire one of their grads to treat your spouse?

greggers1868 · Post by **greggers1868** » July 29th, 2024, 6:56 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 6:50 pm
That's as many be, but would you hire one of their grads to treat your spouse?

Sure as hell more likely than a Liberty med school grad

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » July 29th, 2024, 7:18 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 6:50 pm
That's as many be, but would you hire one of their grads to treat your spouse?

I don't know about my spouse, but seeing how I am an offspring or 2 BYU grads, I can't say I have a built in antipathy.

Then again, my dad did his Masters at USU and worked for USU for 31 years, so the Aggie roots are strong.

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » July 29th, 2024, 7:34 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.

As much as we like to use this board to promote college athletic rivalries, this isn't true according to this article.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/07/2 ... us-christ/

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » July 29th, 2024, 7:38 pm

Also, academics, the primary missions of universities, sees a lot of collaboration between schools. As noted earlier, the are research agreements between the USU Vet School and the University of Utah Medical School to further progress in each area. Seeing how many of my own family have been treated at the Huntsman Cancer Institute, I am certainly glad this cooperation exists.

There are a lot more important things than sports in the world.

CacheCow · Post by **CacheCow** » July 29th, 2024, 9:01 pm

Everyone buy stock in olive oil

bwcrc · Post by **bwcrc** » July 30th, 2024, 7:54 am

Good for yBu getting 51% of its students accepted into medical schools in 2023. USU's acceptance rate to medical school programs since 2012 ranges between 60% and 81%, with an overall average of 70%. While slightly more than half of USU students are getting into DO schools, there is not a whole lot of substantive difference between an MD and a DO these days. USU also has a much smaller premed program, likely providing students a better experience overall.

https://www.usu.edu/advising/health-pro ... igures.pdf

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 30th, 2024, 8:22 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 7:54 am
Good for yBu getting 51% of its students accepted into medical schools in 2023. USU's acceptance rate to medical school programs since 2012 ranges between 60% and 81%, with an overall average of 70%. While slightly more than half of USU students are getting into DO schools, there is not a whole lot of substantive difference between an MD and a DO these days. USU also has a much smaller premed program, likely providing students a better experience overall.

https://www.usu.edu/advising/health-pro ... igures.pdf

The BYU grade at my school said that BYU is the number 1 producer of DO students and the number 3 producer of MD students in the nation. Pretty wild how big their premed group is.

My experience with the USU premed program was great. I’m not surprised a high percentage of our students make it. As far the the DO vs MD situation, most MD schools are public and don’t take a ton of out of state students. A smattering of USU students land at some of the private and public MD schools, but it’s much more likely to get into the private DO schools. Just a numbers game when your in a state with fewer medical programs.

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » July 31st, 2024, 7:23 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 7:34 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.
As much as we like to use this board to promote college athletic rivalries, this isn't true according to this article.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/07/2 ... us-christ/

The paragraph you posted doesn't even come close to demonstrating what you seem to think it does. You don't have adequate data. What is the acceptance rate of BYU students at the U of U medical school? What is the acceptance rate of U of U students at the U of U medical school? Even if the rates were grossly comparable, what were the qualifications of the two groups? Specifically, what were the average MCAT scores of the accepted BYU students vs. the U of U students (since this is, unlike grades, a level playing field)? Additionally, since the U of U is a state school, we have to look at the MCAT adjusted acceptance rate of BYU students who were Utah residents, at the U of U.

Show me those data, and we can start to have a discussion.

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » July 31st, 2024, 7:27 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 8:22 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 7:54 am
Good for yBu getting 51% of its students accepted into medical schools in 2023. USU's acceptance rate to medical school programs since 2012 ranges between 60% and 81%, with an overall average of 70%. While slightly more than half of USU students are getting into DO schools, there is not a whole lot of substantive difference between an MD and a DO these days. USU also has a much smaller premed program, likely providing students a better experience overall.

https://www.usu.edu/advising/health-pro ... igures.pdf
The BYU grade at my school said that BYU is the number 1 producer of DO students and the number 3 producer of MD students in the nation. Pretty wild how big their premed group is.

My experience with the USU premed program was great. I’m not surprised a high percentage of our students make it. As far the the DO vs MD situation, most MD schools are public and don’t take a ton of out of state students. A smattering of USU students land at some of the private and public MD schools, but it’s much more likely to get into the private DO schools. Just a numbers game when your in a state with fewer medical programs.

BYU grads have been known to say all kinds of self aggrandizing crap. Show me the data.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 31st, 2024, 9:15 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 31st, 2024, 7:27 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 8:22 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 7:54 am
Good for yBu getting 51% of its students accepted into medical schools in 2023. USU's acceptance rate to medical school programs since 2012 ranges between 60% and 81%, with an overall average of 70%. While slightly more than half of USU students are getting into DO schools, there is not a whole lot of substantive difference between an MD and a DO these days. USU also has a much smaller premed program, likely providing students a better experience overall.

https://www.usu.edu/advising/health-pro ... igures.pdf
The BYU grade at my school said that BYU is the number 1 producer of DO students and the number 3 producer of MD students in the nation. Pretty wild how big their premed group is.

My experience with the USU premed program was great. I’m not surprised a high percentage of our students make it. As far the the DO vs MD situation, most MD schools are public and don’t take a ton of out of state students. A smattering of USU students land at some of the private and public MD schools, but it’s much more likely to get into the private DO schools. Just a numbers game when your in a state with fewer medical programs.
BYU grads have been known to say all kinds of self aggrandizing crap. Show me the data.

Very true. I have no real data, nor shall I try to find any. I do not care that much. I am anecdotal in all my dealings.

For example, my friend who applied to medical school 6 years ago from the University of Utah showed me the schools he applied to. They included at least one HBCU medical school. I told him I didn't think that was the right move to spend money applying there. He told me something along the lines of, "I just wish there was some place I could go to find all the different medical school admissions requirements." So I told him there was in fact a place, a database called the MSAR, or Medical School Admission Requirements. Then he says, "I asked my premed advisor at the U, and she said there was nothing like that." No joke. So the conclusion that I drew was that the entire University of Utah premed program really sucks. Again, it's anecdotal, but I take it as the gospel truth. No need to show me any data, folks.

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » August 1st, 2024, 6:57 am

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 31st, 2024, 7:23 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 7:34 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 29th, 2024, 12:18 pm
Now there will be one medical school in Utah that discriminates against BYU and USU grads, and one that discriminates against U of U and USU grads.
As much as we like to use this board to promote college athletic rivalries, this isn't true according to this article.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/07/2 ... us-christ/

The paragraph you posted doesn't even come close to demonstrating what you seem to think it does. You don't have adequate data. What is the acceptance rate of BYU students at the U of U medical school? What is the acceptance rate of U of U students at the U of U medical school? Even if the rates were grossly comparable, what were the qualifications of the two groups? Specifically, what were the average MCAT scores of the accepted BYU students vs. the U of U students (since this is, unlike grades, a level playing field)? Additionally, since the U of U is a state school, we have to look at the MCAT adjusted acceptance rate of BYU students who were Utah residents, at the U of U.

Show me those data, and we can start to have a discussion.

I don't gather any data, I simply am showing a source. You can email the author of the article rather than me. I did not conduct any of the research, nor pull any inquiry from the admissions office.

If you would like further information, I suggest you correspond with the medical school at the University of Utah. They have about a 6% acceptance rate from what is published. 19 of 68 spots were BYU graduates from what was said, which is 27% of the open spots.

I really have no more interest in finding out more, I don't plan on attending medical school, but if you would like to do a further in depth analysis of this, here is the contact information.

https://medicine.utah.edu/about/contact

TrueAG · Post by **TrueAG** » August 1st, 2024, 7:24 am

PHD in Essential Oils and healing juices.

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » August 2nd, 2024, 10:55 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 31st, 2024, 9:15 pm

LKGates wrote: ↑
July 31st, 2024, 7:27 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 8:22 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑
July 30th, 2024, 7:54 am
Good for yBu getting 51% of its students accepted into medical schools in 2023. USU's acceptance rate to medical school programs since 2012 ranges between 60% and 81%, with an overall average of 70%. While slightly more than half of USU students are getting into DO schools, there is not a whole lot of substantive difference between an MD and a DO these days. USU also has a much smaller premed program, likely providing students a better experience overall.

https://www.usu.edu/advising/health-pro ... igures.pdf
The BYU grade at my school said that BYU is the number 1 producer of DO students and the number 3 producer of MD students in the nation. Pretty wild how big their premed group is.

My experience with the USU premed program was great. I’m not surprised a high percentage of our students make it. As far the the DO vs MD situation, most MD schools are public and don’t take a ton of out of state students. A smattering of USU students land at some of the private and public MD schools, but it’s much more likely to get into the private DO schools. Just a numbers game when your in a state with fewer medical programs.
BYU grads have been known to say all kinds of self aggrandizing crap. Show me the data.
Very true. I have no real data, nor shall I try to find any. I do not care that much. I am anecdotal in all my dealings.

For example, my friend who applied to medical school 6 years ago from the University of Utah showed me the schools he applied to. They included at least one HBCU medical school. I told him I didn't think that was the right move to spend money applying there. He told me something along the lines of, "I just wish there was some place I could go to find all the different medical school admissions requirements." So I told him there was in fact a place, a database called the MSAR, or Medical School Admission Requirements. Then he says, "I asked my premed advisor at the U, and she said there was nothing like that." No joke. So the conclusion that I drew was that the entire University of Utah premed program really sucks. Again, it's anecdotal, but I take it as the gospel truth. No need to show me any data, folks.

Turns out, BYWho? doesn't even make the top 30 for undergraduate feeder schools to medical schools, even when adjusted for undergraduate enrollment:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/data ... cal-school
"BYWho? graduate makes up crap to make BYWho? sound much, much better than it really is..." Who would have guessed...

StanfordAggie · Post by **StanfordAggie** » August 8th, 2024, 6:25 pm

I just saw this thread, and I am completely shocked by this. I interviewed at BYU 20 years ago, and I remember they were very strongly opposed to their faculty applying for grants or other forms of soft money. But it's almost impossible to run a medical school without soft money in this day and age, especially when you subsidize tuition to the degree that BYU does. Either BYU is rethinking their soft money stance, or an incredible number of tithing dollars are going to be flowing into that medical school. But I guess when you have $50 billion in your own private hedge fund, you can probably afford to do that. And if they are serious about training doctors in developing countries, that sounds like a better use of your $50 billion slush fund than (totally hypothetically) building shopping malls.

Upcoming Events

Event Results