Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by SwaggieAggie » April 10th, 2022, 11:01 pm

Considering how high the expectation and title aspirations were before the season, starting your postseason off on the road at Dallas isn’t ideal at all.. But it is what it is now. I still believe this team ‘can’ beat anyone in a 7 game series when fully healthy and clicking. But it will take some luck along the way.

With that said, the biggest problem still isn’t Mitchell/Gobert. They can both be key pieces for a championship team. The problem is that this roster just isn’t built defensively for the modern game. Royce is flat out awful and wouldn’t start on any playoff team, and House wouldn’t get any rotational minutes either on championship-minded teams like the Suns and the Bucks, and that’s the best we got at the wing position..



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by QuackAttackAggie » April 16th, 2022, 2:26 pm

Jazz are closer than anybody to being the champs right now


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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by 3rdGenAggie » April 16th, 2022, 3:43 pm

Jazz better hope Luka stays out this whole series.


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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by El Sapo » April 21st, 2022, 1:06 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
April 16th, 2022, 3:43 pm
Jazz better hope Luka stays out this whole series.
Luka is questionable for tonight. Rudy's effectiveness is also questionable. Jazz looked horrible at the end of game 2.

Do Mitchell and Rudy really dislike each other? That's what I heard.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by dirtnsnow » April 21st, 2022, 1:19 pm

They'll win tonight on strength of home court, but then lose 3 straight. How badly they lose depends on Luka's leg.


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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by 3rdGenAggie » April 21st, 2022, 1:26 pm

El Sapo wrote:
April 21st, 2022, 1:06 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
April 16th, 2022, 3:43 pm
Jazz better hope Luka stays out this whole series.
Luka is questionable for tonight. Rudy's effectiveness is also questionable. Jazz looked horrible at the end of game 2.

Do Mitchell and Rudy really dislike each other? That's what I heard.
The real issue is the complete lack of perimeter defense on the Jazz. On most possessions, Rudy ends up with the choice of allowing a dunk/layup or allowing Kleber to shoot an open 3.

I've heard the same thing about Rudy and Donovan. They should get over it though...they're making tens of millions per year to play together. Just make it work.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by slcagg » April 21st, 2022, 8:23 pm

Utah booed at the half. And they absolutely deserve it. I’m sure Donovan will come out and have a great 2nd half…but his body language is not great.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by QuackAttackAggie » April 21st, 2022, 8:25 pm

They're awful. The defense is just a joke. Uncontested 3 after another. Same play over and over and doesn't matter. They're giving up 20-30 threes a game with no defender. And the offense is no longer fun to watch either.


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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by brownjeans » April 21st, 2022, 9:50 pm

I actually like this team better this year in the games where Mitchell didn't play.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by slcagg » April 21st, 2022, 10:02 pm

brownjeans wrote:
April 21st, 2022, 9:50 pm
I actually like this team better this year in the games where Mitchell didn't play.
This was a thing of beauty..I mean effort.




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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by brownjeans » April 21st, 2022, 11:38 pm

Let's say the Jazz trade Gobert and keep Mitchell. The Jazz will be terrible. They'll have the worst defense in the league.
Mitchell will get ticked at how much they're losing and leave anyway.

If you trade Mitchell and Keep Gobert, you will still be a playoff team, but maybe never a championship team. Maybe you get lucky and you can trade Mitchell for an older star like Dame. If that's the case you might be nearly a championship team.

I think if you trade Gobert, you need to trade Mitchell too because you'll likely lose him anyway.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by NVAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 7:42 am

Mitchell is fake. I know Jazz fans love him, but he is just as fake as all of the rest of the stars.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by LoveMyAggies » April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am

Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by slcagg » April 22nd, 2022, 7:50 am

LoveMyAggies wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am
Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.
See the defensive effort from the video I posted above…that tells you all you need to know.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by 3rdGenAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 8:43 am

Donovan bought into his own super-stardom and started looking for his on the offensive end and not much else.


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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am

slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:50 am
LoveMyAggies wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am
Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.
See the defensive effort from the video I posted above…that tells you all you need to know.
No it doesn't. It is the team defense that is the problem. Solely blaming Mitchell for giving up open 3 after open 3 is silly. He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 9:32 am

NVAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:42 am
Mitchell is fake. I know Jazz fans love him, but he is just as fake as all of the rest of the stars.
Yeah people were saying the Greek Freak was a fake star two years ago, yet the next season they won the title. Knee jerk reactions don't make teams better.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by SwaggieAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am

Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am

SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am
Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
Yep. I said at the time it was a mistake bringing back Conley. Royce is gone. Bogey will be gone. Clarkson probably will be gone. No D Quin Snyer will be done. There will be a lot of changes. It is crazy to think Mitchell will be one of those changes unless he wants to be gone. It is more crazy to think getting rid of a top 5 NBA scorer will make the Jazz better.

The blame Mitchell fest is silly. They outscored the Mavs with him on the court last night. They played better when Gobert was off the court.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by slcagg » April 22nd, 2022, 9:40 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am
slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:50 am
LoveMyAggies wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am
Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.
See the defensive effort from the video I posted above…that tells you all you need to know.
No it doesn't. It is the team defense that is the problem. Solely blaming Mitchell for giving up open 3 after open 3 is silly. He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.
Did I state he was the only problem? If you interpreted it that way, I should have made more clear that I was disappointed with his effort on the defensive end from your superstar. But that he isn’t the only problem. We can get into why the make up of the team is more of a pretender than a contender.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 9:46 am

slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:40 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am
slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:50 am
LoveMyAggies wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am
Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.
See the defensive effort from the video I posted above…that tells you all you need to know.
No it doesn't. It is the team defense that is the problem. Solely blaming Mitchell for giving up open 3 after open 3 is silly. He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.
Did I state he was the only problem? If you interpreted it that way, I should have made more clear that I was disappointed with his effort on the defensive end from your superstar. But that he isn’t the only problem. We can get into why the make up of the team is more of a pretender than a contender.
No, you didn't say he was the only problem. This thread has turned into a "crap on Mitchell" thread which is silly. It was in response to several posters. They outscored the Mavs with Mitchell on the court. They were still giving up wide open 3 after wide open 3 when Mitchell was on the bench.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by SwaggieAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 9:47 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am
Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
Yep. I said at the time it was a mistake bringing back Conley. Royce is gone. Bogey will be gone. Clarkson probably will be gone. No D Quin Snyer will be done. There will be a lot of changes. It is crazy to think Mitchell will be one of those changes unless he wants to be gone. It is more crazy to think getting rid of a top 5 NBA scorer will make the Jazz better.

The blame Mitchell fest is silly. They outscored the Mavs with him on the court last night. They played better when Gobert was off the court.
Dudes like Mitchell don’t come around to Utah often. And for the fans asking for a total rebuild, be careful for what you wish for. This franchise could so easily become the Sacramento Kings. It takes a lot of luck and a lot of things to bounce your way to rebuild like the Suns were able to.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 9:55 am

SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:47 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am
Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
Yep. I said at the time it was a mistake bringing back Conley. Royce is gone. Bogey will be gone. Clarkson probably will be gone. No D Quin Snyer will be done. There will be a lot of changes. It is crazy to think Mitchell will be one of those changes unless he wants to be gone. It is more crazy to think getting rid of a top 5 NBA scorer will make the Jazz better.

The blame Mitchell fest is silly. They outscored the Mavs with him on the court last night. They played better when Gobert was off the court.
Dudes like Mitchell don’t come around to Utah often. And for the fans asking for a total rebuild, be careful for what you wish for. This franchise could so easily become the Sacramento Kings. It takes a lot of luck and a lot of things to bounce your way to rebuild like the Suns were able to.
Yeah, good free agents rarely come to Utah. Bojan Bogdanovic level free agents are about as good as Utah is going to get and you only get players of his caliber because you have guys like Mitchell and Gobert on the team. Only hope for the Jazz in rebuilding is the draft, but that is a big risk if your goal is to get players better than Mitchell and Gobert. Since Mitchell was drafted in 2017, how many players have come into the league that are better than Mitchell? Luka, Trae Young(and he is a push because his defense is even worse than Mitchell's), and Ja Morant. Some others like Cade Cunningham that might be, but his rookie season wasn't as good as Mitchell's.

Rebuilding and giving up all stars is always a major risk and an even bigger one when your team is based on Utah. The Jazz 100% need to make some changes, but giving up your best assets is a nonstarter.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by slcagg » April 22nd, 2022, 9:58 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:46 am
slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:40 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am
slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:50 am
LoveMyAggies wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am
Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.
See the defensive effort from the video I posted above…that tells you all you need to know.
No it doesn't. It is the team defense that is the problem. Solely blaming Mitchell for giving up open 3 after open 3 is silly. He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.
Did I state he was the only problem? If you interpreted it that way, I should have made more clear that I was disappointed with his effort on the defensive end from your superstar. But that he isn’t the only problem. We can get into why the make up of the team is more of a pretender than a contender.
No, you didn't say he was the only problem. This thread has turned into a "crap on Mitchell" thread which is silly. It was in response to several posters. They outscored the Mavs with Mitchell on the court. They were still giving up wide open 3 after wide open 3 when Mitchell was on the bench.
Do you think Mitchell stays long term. If you don’t, then do you consider trading him and getting a bunch of assets?



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 10:26 am

slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:58 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:46 am
slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:40 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am
slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:50 am
LoveMyAggies wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 7:46 am
Rudy is a franchise top 10 player of this generation, regardless of your assertion about the 3 pointers issue. The problem is defensive pride in everyone else. Snyder’s system doesnt work without players who dont actually play physical defense.

I think you trade everyone away Conley Mitchell O’neale and Bogdonovich

Maybe you bring Ingles back and run it one more time, it seems the overall team chemistry died when Ingles tore his ACL.

If they dont want Ingles back, they need to get rid the entire starting lineup ... except maybe .. Conley and for sure keep Gobert.

Look at many of their wins this year .. Gobert and Whiteside were monsters in the paint.

For the Jazz to keep Mitchell they need him to take a pay cut and bring in 2 superstars and trade 1/2 the bench and 3 starters. Not going to happen. Time to trade mitchell for draft assets for 2022’s draft.

Mitchell could be a playoff 40+ point machine, clearly he just trys for 30 and calls it a night doesnt care about his defense.

120+ points given up at home IN A PLAYOFF GAME is atrocious, and points to systemic player apathy. Heck these guys are getting paid a jackpot of money each year, and they act like they dont care.
See the defensive effort from the video I posted above…that tells you all you need to know.
No it doesn't. It is the team defense that is the problem. Solely blaming Mitchell for giving up open 3 after open 3 is silly. He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.
Did I state he was the only problem? If you interpreted it that way, I should have made more clear that I was disappointed with his effort on the defensive end from your superstar. But that he isn’t the only problem. We can get into why the make up of the team is more of a pretender than a contender.
No, you didn't say he was the only problem. This thread has turned into a "crap on Mitchell" thread which is silly. It was in response to several posters. They outscored the Mavs with Mitchell on the court. They were still giving up wide open 3 after wide open 3 when Mitchell was on the bench.
Do you think Mitchell stays long term. If you don’t, then do you consider trading him and getting a bunch of assets?
He is under contract for 3 more years after this one. That is pretty long in the NBA. Unless he demands out, now is not the time to trade him. Assets don't do it for me when you have a for sure thing. The Jazz got a nice haul for Dwill and that didn't result in improvement. Getting two top 3 picks was great, but they resulted in Favors and Kanter. Favors was an average player and Kanter was a cancer. With Mitchell are talking about a guy who scores more per game in the playoffs than Lebron, than Curry, than Kobe did, etc. . . I'd much rather see what Ainge can do to put a team around Mitchell. When Ainge got to Boston, many people said Paul Pierce couldn't win. Ainge built a team around Pierce instead of trading him and it resulted in a title and several years where they were close.


Of course I would support any trade that would make the Jazz better. If there is a trade out there where they get rid of Mitchell and it improves the team, I'd support it. I just don't see it.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by brownjeans » April 22nd, 2022, 11:55 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am
He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.
How many points someone scores isn't the entire story. Say a guy scores 40 points in a playoff game. He uses 40% of his teams' possessions and goes 16 of 38 from the field. Did he help his team or hurt it?



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by brownjeans » April 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:32 am
Yeah people were saying the Greek Freak was a fake star two years ago, yet the next season they won the title. Knee jerk reactions don't make teams better.
Giannis is a DPOY winner.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 12:08 pm

brownjeans wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 11:55 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:29 am
He is a top 5 NBA playoff scorer in NBA history. Unless you have some disgruntled superstar lined up, it will set the Jazz back years trading him. The team will look much different next year, but they'll be much worse if Mitchell isn't on it.
How many points someone scores isn't the entire story. Say a guy scores 40 points in a playoff game. He uses 40% of his teams' possessions and goes 16 of 38 from the field. Did he help his team or hurt it?
I'd buy that in game 2 when Mitchell wasn't that efficient. His scoring helped the Jazz win game 1 and his offense was good last night.

And yeah I wouldn't compare Mitchell to the Greek Freak directly. The Greek Freak is one of the greatest to ever play the game, but he was absolutely crucified after their second round loss to the Heat two years ago, called a fraud and people were saying he couldn't lead a team to a championship. I'm not big on just writing off young star players. Very few star players win in their first 5 years and the ones that do have other great scorers on their team.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by 3rdGenAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 12:08 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am
Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
Yep. I said at the time it was a mistake bringing back Conley. Royce is gone. Bogey will be gone. Clarkson probably will be gone. No D Quin Snyer will be done. There will be a lot of changes. It is crazy to think Mitchell will be one of those changes unless he wants to be gone. It is more crazy to think getting rid of a top 5 NBA scorer will make the Jazz better.

The blame Mitchell fest is silly. They outscored the Mavs with him on the court last night. They played better when Gobert was off the court.
I agree Conley's size next to Mitchell is a problem, but Conley was literally the only option outside of a mid-level exception player. The Jazz were over the cap prior to re-signing Conley so signing him via his Bird Rights was the only way to get a good PG in the system. There was no other PG even close to Conley's level that the Jazz could have signed.

As for playing better with Gobert off the court last night, I tend to agree, but I wonder the reason why. Part of me really wonders if it's simply an issue of effort. With Gobert on the court, the players are so used to half-a$$ing it on defense that it makes the overall defense worse (at least against certain styles of play), but when he sits they know they have to actually put in some effort.
Last edited by 3rdGenAggie on April 22nd, 2022, 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by slcagg » April 22nd, 2022, 12:11 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 12:08 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am
Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
Yep. I said at the time it was a mistake bringing back Conley. Royce is gone. Bogey will be gone. Clarkson probably will be gone. No D Quin Snyer will be done. There will be a lot of changes. It is crazy to think Mitchell will be one of those changes unless he wants to be gone. It is more crazy to think getting rid of a top 5 NBA scorer will make the Jazz better.

The blame Mitchell fest is silly. They outscored the Mavs with him on the court last night. They played better when Gobert was off the court.
I agree Conley's size next to Mitchell is a problem, but Conley was literally the only option outside of a mid-level exception player. The Jazz were over the cap prior to re-signing Conley so signing him via his Bird Rights was the only way to get a good PG in the system. There was no other PG even close to Conley's level that the Jazz could have signed.
The jazz should have never traded for him.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by 3rdGenAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 12:13 pm

slcagg wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 12:11 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 12:08 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:39 am
SwaggieAggie wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 9:33 am
Mitchell is one of the most dynamic scorers the Jazz have ever had, but his lack of defensive caring kills us. Gobert is also a generational defensive player, but his lack of any sort of offensive skill set or ability to punish small ball with his size, also kills us.

Getting ride of either wouldn’t fix anything. The real solution is building around these two with size and perimeter defenders. Love Conley, but his size combined with Mitchell’s causes a lot of defensive liabilities. I would potentially trade Bogey if the price was right, I would also trade Royce for an Arby’s coupon.
Yep. I said at the time it was a mistake bringing back Conley. Royce is gone. Bogey will be gone. Clarkson probably will be gone. No D Quin Snyer will be done. There will be a lot of changes. It is crazy to think Mitchell will be one of those changes unless he wants to be gone. It is more crazy to think getting rid of a top 5 NBA scorer will make the Jazz better.

The blame Mitchell fest is silly. They outscored the Mavs with him on the court last night. They played better when Gobert was off the court.
I agree Conley's size next to Mitchell is a problem, but Conley was literally the only option outside of a mid-level exception player. The Jazz were over the cap prior to re-signing Conley so signing him via his Bird Rights was the only way to get a good PG in the system. There was no other PG even close to Conley's level that the Jazz could have signed.
The jazz should have never traded for him.
That is certainly a fair assessment.

Also, if they were set on trading for him they should have traded for him during the season when they had more assets available. They ended up paying more for him in the off-season than what was the rumored package during the season.


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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by 3rdGenAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 12:49 pm

It is interesting how differently we probably feel if even 2 of these shots go down. At the end of the day, it's a make or miss league.



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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 22nd, 2022, 2:59 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
January 9th, 2022, 9:04 pm
Watching the Grizzlies blowout the Lakers right now really makes me wish the Jazz drafted Desmond Bane instead of azubuike. Bane has real all star potential while Azubuike probably won't be in the league after his first contract is up.
I'll be the board douche and bump a several month old post. Desmond Bane has been playing great in the playoffs for the Grizzlies. Just had 26 and was huge in their comeback win in Minnesota. He would have helped the Jazz so much this year. Just such a bad decision by Lindsay to take azubuike over him.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by SwaggieAggie » April 22nd, 2022, 3:31 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 22nd, 2022, 2:59 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
January 9th, 2022, 9:04 pm
Watching the Grizzlies blowout the Lakers right now really makes me wish the Jazz drafted Desmond Bane instead of azubuike. Bane has real all star potential while Azubuike probably won't be in the league after his first contract is up.
I'll be the board douche and bump a several month old post. Desmond Bane has been playing great in the playoffs for the Grizzlies. Just had 26 and was huge in their comeback win in Minnesota. He would have helped the Jazz so much this year. Just such a bad decision by Lindsay to take azubuike over him.
Drafts are always hit and miss.. Every year there is always a "I can't believe (insert team) drafted this dude over that superstar!" No one knew Bane would be this good.

However, with that said, drafting a center like Udoka with a first round pick was absolutely criminal. Just shows you how out of touch that front office was with the current landscape of the NBA. Especially when you see how easy it is to pick up guys like Hassan in the offseason. Udoka was only ever going to be a backup center.

If Queta was drafted 10 years ago he would've been a lottery pick. Instead he was a 2nd round pick and is struggling to get action on the court. The game has changed for the big fellas. NBA teams now can play positionless basketball and are searching for "6'6-6'10" guys who can shoot and defend multiple positions. Utah never adjusted with the times! Our roster is flawed defensively and we have done nothing to fix it or address it for 3 years.
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Re: Utah Jazz 2021-22 thread

Post by LoveMyAggies » April 23rd, 2022, 5:40 pm

Im not saying what other poster’s have said is wrong etc.

Just an off the wall take, I think Doncic is headed toward Larry Bird status .. or most common comparison.

Dude can totally ball.

Any team constructed the right way would maximize team passing screening, to get someone like that great shot selection and great team rebounding. Then a coach who can inject great team defensive x and o, and hustle.

The Jazz have great pieces with Gobert and Mitchell.

I made the assertion last season the liability on offense was Gobert. Kinda sad the Jazz can’t help Gobert develop better into a better clutch free throw shooter, and somehow get some post up moves close to the basket, maybe a hook shot or two. Maybe an up and under. Maybe an elbow 10-15 ft jumper. This is the dude’s 9th season with the Jazz, and he averages less than 8 shot attempts a game .. mostly put backs, ally-oops, and a screen and roll lay-up attempt. .. you cant tell me in 9 years he cant pick up some 5-10 foot back to the basket offense??!! WTH????

Sorry for the rant. I hope the Jazz can figure it out, a Max player at center should be better offensively than this, that’s all. His PER is 24.76 and that’s #6 in the league. Rudy should definitely finish his career with the Jazz, IMHO. Likely, he gets 2-3 more DPOY .. he’s worth keeping,

I dont think the GM has a good supporting cast outside of Mitchell and the 6th man Clarkson.

Likely they are stuck with Conley(past his prime)

And the rest need to be traded this off season.



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