Conference expansion metrics

travelingagg · Post by **travelingagg** » October 7th, 2021, 5:09 pm

This video was facinating.

Looks like we need to:

1. Win more
2. Keep growing our endowment (it's 3rd largest in the MWC).
3. Keep up our research dollars (I think we're #2, but I'd have to check).
4. Increase our US News & World Report ranking (this one is hard because for many reasons. We're a land-grant university with pretty open acceptance rate which means lower average ACT scores and GPAs. Secondly, our graduation within various time frames is low because of our acceptance rate and also because of missions and thirdly a lot of students working while going to school.

We do better than Boise on #2, #3, and #4. So more than anything, consistent winning is key! We're better than UCF on #2 and likely #3, though I'd have to check.

Just win!

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » October 7th, 2021, 5:28 pm

travelingagg wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 5:09 pm
This video was facinating.

Looks like we need to:

1. Win more
2. Keep growing our endowment (it's 3rd largest in the MWC).
3. Keep up our research dollars (I think we're #2, but I'd have to check).
4. Increase our US News & World Report ranking (this one is hard because for many reasons. We're a land-grant university with pretty open acceptance rate which means lower average ACT scores and GPAs. Secondly, our graduation within various time frames is low because of our acceptance rate and also because of missions and thirdly a lot of students working while going to school.

We do better than Boise on #2, #3, and #4. So more than anything, consistent winning is key! We're better than UCF on #2 and likely #3, though I'd have to check.

Just win!

Are missions still a factor? Aren't kids going on missions right out of high school now and not enrolling until after they've returned? Or are many still enrolling for a year and then leaving?

travelingagg · Post by **travelingagg** » October 7th, 2021, 5:59 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 5:28 pm

travelingagg wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 5:09 pm
This video was facinating.

Looks like we need to:

1. Win more
2. Keep growing our endowment (it's 3rd largest in the MWC).
3. Keep up our research dollars (I think we're #2, but I'd have to check).
4. Increase our US News & World Report ranking (this one is hard because for many reasons. We're a land-grant university with pretty open acceptance rate which means lower average ACT scores and GPAs. Secondly, our graduation within various time frames is low because of our acceptance rate and also because of missions and thirdly a lot of students working while going to school.

We do better than Boise on #2, #3, and #4. So more than anything, consistent winning is key! We're better than UCF on #2 and likely #3, though I'd have to check.

Just win!
Are missions still a factor? Aren't kids going on missions right out of high school now and not enrolling until after they've returned? Or are many still enrolling for a year and then leaving?

Oh, -- I guess that's true, @Yossarian . And BYU has a good ranking with a larger percent of its students going on missions.

LarryTheAggie · Post by **LarryTheAggie** » October 7th, 2021, 7:55 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 5:28 pm

travelingagg wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 5:09 pm
This video was facinating.

Looks like we need to:

1. Win more
2. Keep growing our endowment (it's 3rd largest in the MWC).
3. Keep up our research dollars (I think we're #2, but I'd have to check).
4. Increase our US News & World Report ranking (this one is hard because for many reasons. We're a land-grant university with pretty open acceptance rate which means lower average ACT scores and GPAs. Secondly, our graduation within various time frames is low because of our acceptance rate and also because of missions and thirdly a lot of students working while going to school.

We do better than Boise on #2, #3, and #4. So more than anything, consistent winning is key! We're better than UCF on #2 and likely #3, though I'd have to check.

Just win!
Are missions still a factor? Aren't kids going on missions right out of high school now and not enrolling until after they've returned? Or are many still enrolling for a year and then leaving?

Probably about a wash. Most guys go right after high school but there still seems to be quite a few that go to school for a year. Also, you get a LOT more girls going after a year or two in school.

The US News metrics are so dumb. I have taught at the University of Maryland (ranked 59 and 20th for public school). The students are absolutely no better than USU students, and the instruction might be worse than USU (I had plenty of student complain that I was the only instructor that actually cared). Having high admission standards and graduation rates are not signs of good students or skilled graduates. (Though they do have a much better alumni network and more research going for them).

swordsman1989 · Post by **swordsman1989** » October 7th, 2021, 11:48 pm

The US News rankings are frustrating. I read an article a few years ago about how Northeastern University worked hard at cracking the code and then made very specific targeted changes to manipulate their standing in the rankings. Most felt that it did very little to actually improve the quality of the university, but because of prominence of the US News rankings, it significantly improved the reputation of the university.

There are other rankings that most "experts" view as being more objective and fair, such as the ARWU and QS rankings (USU does fare much better in those). But within the States, the prominence of those rankings is far behind the USNWR rankings. We can see from the Big-12 expansion information that status within the USNWR can have significant impacts on all aspect of the University. Perhaps USU should hire the firm that Northeastern University did in order to target the specific improvements that will positively affect our standing.

Aggie19 · Post by **Aggie19** » October 9th, 2021, 5:01 am

Just a sample of what you'll find with the USNews rankings, this is their completely unbiased take on Utah. I'm an Aggie, I'm used to taking every once of respect I can rip away from someone else, but if I'm a Ute....damn, that stings a bit.

These things are so dumb

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 9th, 2021, 8:52 am

They don’t even know Logan is in Utah.

swordsman1989 · Post by **swordsman1989** » October 9th, 2021, 8:55 am

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
October 9th, 2021, 5:01 am
Just a sample of what you'll find with the USNews rankings, this is their completely unbiased take on Utah. I'm an Aggie, I'm used to taking every once of respect I can rip away from someone else, but if I'm a Ute....damn, that stings a bit. These things are so dumb

Yeah, considering Utah is a member of the AAU, the PAC-12, and is also ranked in the US News top 100, that is really a kick in the nuts.

TheAKAggie · Post by **TheAKAggie** » October 9th, 2021, 10:15 pm

travelingagg wrote:This video was facinating.

Looks like we need to:

1. Win more
2. Keep growing our endowment (it's 3rd largest in the MWC).
3. Keep up our research dollars (I think we're #2, but I'd have to check).
4. Increase our US News & World Report ranking (this one is hard because for many reasons. We're a land-grant university with pretty open acceptance rate which means lower average ACT scores and GPAs. Secondly, our graduation within various time frames is low because of our acceptance rate and also because of missions and thirdly a lot of students working while going to school.

We do better than Boise on #2, #3, and #4. So more than anything, consistent winning is key! We're better than UCF on #2 and likely #3, though I'd have to check.

Just win!

Yeah, sorry, my seven year History BS probably still throwing off the metrics. 31 ACT though!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » October 10th, 2021, 1:36 am

TheAKAggie wrote: ↑
October 9th, 2021, 10:15 pm

travelingagg wrote:This video was facinating.

Looks like we need to:

1. Win more
2. Keep growing our endowment (it's 3rd largest in the MWC).
3. Keep up our research dollars (I think we're #2, but I'd have to check).
4. Increase our US News & World Report ranking (this one is hard because for many reasons. We're a land-grant university with pretty open acceptance rate which means lower average ACT scores and GPAs. Secondly, our graduation within various time frames is low because of our acceptance rate and also because of missions and thirdly a lot of students working while going to school.

We do better than Boise on #2, #3, and #4. So more than anything, consistent winning is key! We're better than UCF on #2 and likely #3, though I'd have to check.

Just win!
Yeah, sorry, my seven year History BS probably still throwing off the metrics. 31 ACT though!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This ACT scores aren't additive. You don't get to combine junior and senior year scores.

travelingagg · Post by **travelingagg** » October 10th, 2021, 11:13 am

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
October 9th, 2021, 5:01 am
Just a sample of what you'll find with the USNews rankings, this is their completely unbiased take on Utah. I'm an Aggie, I'm used to taking every once of respect I can rip away from someone else, but if I'm a Ute....damn, that stings a bit. These things are so dumb

As someone who has managed various organizations digital assets during my career, I want to emphasize that sites including the US News & World Report are open to editing suggestions.

E.g., someone pointed out Dallin Leavitt's ESPN profile listed him as a BYU alumnus. I reached out to ESPN in August, pointed out the error, and they promptly corrected it (https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/30 ... in-leavitt).

See a problem? Submit an edit request.

I contacted US News this morning and requested an edit. I invite those who are willing to help to do the same. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

https://www.usnews.com/info/features/contact

travelingagg · Post by **travelingagg** » October 10th, 2021, 11:26 am

swordsman1989 wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 11:48 pm
The US News rankings are frustrating. I read an article a few years ago about how Northeastern University worked hard at cracking the code and then made very specific targeted changes to manipulate their standing in the rankings. Most felt that it did very little to actually improve the quality of the university, but because of prominence of the US News rankings, it significantly improved the reputation of the university.

There are other rankings that most "experts" view as being more objective and fair, such as the ARWU and QS rankings (USU does fare much better in those). But within the States, the prominence of those rankings is far behind the USNWR rankings. We can see from the Big-12 expansion information that status within the USNWR can have significant impacts on all aspect of the University. Perhaps USU should hire the firm that Northeastern University did in order to target the specific improvements that will positively affect our standing.

I think this might be the article referenced:
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/201 ... -rankings/

Yes, rankings are flawed, and yes, they have many additional issues this article pointed out: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-col ... nts-2021-7

Still, rankings are the way the vast majority of households assess the quality of education their kids will get. Don't fight the system. Learn to play it. One of the biggest things Northwestern did was lower its class sizes to 19.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 11th, 2021, 7:41 am

Northwestern or Northeastern? They are different.

swordsman1989 · Post by **swordsman1989** » October 11th, 2021, 8:20 am

NVAggie wrote: ↑
October 11th, 2021, 7:41 am
Northwestern or Northeastern? They are different.

The school I was referencing, and the article was about, is Northeastern. I am thinking travelingagg’s comment about class size at “Northwestern” was a typo and that he meant to say Northeastern.

travelingagg · Post by **travelingagg** » October 11th, 2021, 11:51 am

travelingagg wrote: ↑
October 10th, 2021, 11:26 am

swordsman1989 wrote: ↑
October 7th, 2021, 11:48 pm
The US News rankings are frustrating. I read an article a few years ago about how Northeastern University worked hard at cracking the code and then made very specific targeted changes to manipulate their standing in the rankings. Most felt that it did very little to actually improve the quality of the university, but because of prominence of the US News rankings, it significantly improved the reputation of the university.

There are other rankings that most "experts" view as being more objective and fair, such as the ARWU and QS rankings (USU does fare much better in those). But within the States, the prominence of those rankings is far behind the USNWR rankings. We can see from the Big-12 expansion information that status within the USNWR can have significant impacts on all aspect of the University. Perhaps USU should hire the firm that Northeastern University did in order to target the specific improvements that will positively affect our standing.
I think this might be the article referenced:
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/201 ... -rankings/

Yes, rankings are flawed, and yes, they have many additional issues this article pointed out: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-col ... nts-2021-7

Still, rankings are the way the vast majority of households assess the quality of education their kids will get. Don't fight the system. Learn to play it. One of the biggest things Northeastern did was lower its class sizes to 19.

travelingagg · Post by **travelingagg** » October 11th, 2021, 11:51 am

swordsman1989 wrote: ↑
October 11th, 2021, 8:20 am

NVAggie wrote: ↑
October 11th, 2021, 7:41 am
Northwestern or Northeastern? They are different.
The school I was referencing, and the article was about, is Northeastern. I am thinking travelingagg’s comment about class size at “Northwestern” was a typo and that he meant to say Northeastern.

Yes -- my error. I made the edit.

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