Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

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SLB
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Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SLB » April 8th, 2021, 3:06 pm

For me when I first saw this issue was in Junior High years ago, I was on a great team and we faced a team that intentionally tried to get hit by a pitch. Our pitcher had a short fuse and threw 80+ mph, and one of the opposing players was the opposing head coach's son. Our pitcher threw on purpose at the opposing coach's son who turn into the pitch and broke that kid's arm. I have seen hitting coaches showing how to get hit by a pitch at baseball camps and high school, and this was 10-15 years ago. It has gotten worse, and you see most batters in every game at the college level and above trying to get hit by a pitch.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by Donman » April 8th, 2021, 4:05 pm

Money Ball probably plays into this. Getting on base, however you can, is the most important thing.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SLB » April 8th, 2021, 4:13 pm

Donman wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 4:05 pm
Money Ball probably plays into this. Getting on base, however you can, is the most important thing.
It is cheap and dangerous, and it should not be taught especially to younger kids and teens. The unwritten rule was get out of the way because it is dangerous. It is asking for trouble like very serious injury or death (there was an elite HBP hitter that passed out by a HBP in the early 20th century), and there are high schoolers that throw it in the 90s.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by Yossarian » April 8th, 2021, 4:51 pm

I think the umpires themselves can control this. They don't have to grant first base to the batter if they feel he did not make a sufficient effort to avoid getting hit by the pitch. Even less so if the hitter moves into the pitch. If it is a big problem, it's the umpires fault.


Edit: And by using gendered terms, i don't mean to exclude anyone with my response nor assume that an umpire or a batter is always a male or someone that identifies with male pronouns. My limited response is made out of laziness, not malice or exclusion.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by boyblue » April 8th, 2021, 11:13 pm

SLB wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 4:13 pm
Donman wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 4:05 pm
Money Ball probably plays into this. Getting on base, however you can, is the most important thing.
It is cheap and dangerous, and it should not be taught especially to younger kids and teens. The unwritten rule was get out of the way because it is dangerous. It is asking for trouble like very serious injury or death (there was an elite HBP hitter that passed out by a HBP in the early 20th century), and there are high schoolers that throw it in the 90s.
Unwritten rule? I don't know where you played, but when I played in high school the unwritten rule was to role with it and get on base for free. We wouldn't stick anything out to get hit, but you for sure don't get out of the way. There was a time when I pitched against Preston and the kid stuck his elbow in the strike zone to get hit. The umpire called him back. It made me mad so I nailed in the back with the next pitch. I always loved beating Preston.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SLB » April 8th, 2021, 11:32 pm

boyblue wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 11:13 pm
SLB wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 4:13 pm
Donman wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 4:05 pm
Money Ball probably plays into this. Getting on base, however you can, is the most important thing.
It is cheap and dangerous, and it should not be taught especially to younger kids and teens. The unwritten rule was get out of the way because it is dangerous. It is asking for trouble like very serious injury or death (there was an elite HBP hitter that passed out by a HBP in the early 20th century), and there are high schoolers that throw it in the 90s.
Unwritten rule? I don't know where you played, but when I played in high school the unwritten rule was to role with it and get on base for free. We wouldn't stick anything out to get hit, but you for sure don't get out of the way. There was a time when I pitched against Preston and the kid stuck his elbow in the strike zone to get hit. The umpire called him back. It made me mad so I nailed in the back with the next pitch. I always loved beating Preston.
Before having some issues in life during high school, I got so skilled at hitting that I could hit a pitch before it could hit me (no joke the coach was pissed and I was laughing at being surprised how quick I was with a bat [it was just a reflex to protect myself]). It was fun batting 420+ and hitting everything regardless how high, low, inside, or outside the pitch was (I had a couple of coach about to lose it with my crazy to swing at about everything approach). My point above is exactly right about getting out of the way pitch coming to hit you since it could damage you. Junior High level can have 80+ mph pitchers, and High School can have 90+ mph. Those pitches can break bone and even kill you, and I shared the story about the kid having his arm broken that was in the 80+mph. It is hard to help the team with a broken arm or worse. College and above are sticking out to get hit by a pitch, and hitting coaches at high school and below are teaching the same thing.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by tipitup » April 9th, 2021, 9:22 am

here is an interesting article from the MLB game where there was a walk-off HBP that i think should be batter interference.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-walk-off- ... ome-opener



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SeattleAg » April 9th, 2021, 9:46 am

Observations on this from youth baseball:
The kids are taught to roll out of the way of pitches and I haven't seen any team (my son's or opponents) where the kids are trying to get hit. We are currently in 13U, for what that's worth. There is a combination of "good movement" and overall razzing when someone dodges an inside pitch, and plenty of "way to wear it!" when someone gets hit and runs down to first.
The kids aren't dumb, though. They know who is throwing junk and who is throwing heat. You don't see anyone turning into a 70+ fastball and everything goes quiet when a kid gets hit hard. However, when some kid is tossing 40 mph off speed stuff, you can tell when the batters aren't really trying to get out of the way.

As early as 4th grade, my kid (who bats lefty and was thus plunked a ton) told me straight up he was wearing it from crap pitchers, since he barely felt their throws, but he would bail out if the pitcher was good.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by Imakeitrain » April 9th, 2021, 12:12 pm

If we’re talking about Mets Marlins - typically getting hit by a pitch in the zone should be a strike.

Not as egregious because at least it would have been a ball but more frustrating was when Tabata leaned into a pitch to break up scherzer’s perfect game bottom of the 9th w/ 2 out


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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by mcaggie1 » April 9th, 2021, 1:23 pm

Donman wrote:
April 8th, 2021, 4:05 pm
Money Ball probably plays into this. Getting on base, however you can, is the most important thing.
Hence, OBP is a more important stat than BA. If you want to get hit, that's fine, as long as you or any part of you is not in the strike zone. Not my idea of classy baseball, but, again, the pitch is not in the strike zone. If someone moves into the strike zone to get hit. It should be called a strike, with a warning that one more time that game, and you are not eligible to play the rest of the game. I know that sounds harsh, but I hate it when players try to get hit. It's like flopping in basketball to me.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SLB » April 9th, 2021, 8:58 pm

SeattleAg wrote:
April 9th, 2021, 9:46 am
Observations on this from youth baseball:
The kids are taught to roll out of the way of pitches and I haven't seen any team (my son's or opponents) where the kids are trying to get hit. We are currently in 13U, for what that's worth. There is a combination of "good movement" and overall razzing when someone dodges an inside pitch, and plenty of "way to wear it!" when someone gets hit and runs down to first.
The kids aren't dumb, though. They know who is throwing junk and who is throwing heat. You don't see anyone turning into a 70+ fastball and everything goes quiet when a kid gets hit hard. However, when some kid is tossing 40 mph off speed stuff, you can tell when the batters aren't really trying to get out of the way.

As early as 4th grade, my kid (who bats lefty and was thus plunked a ton) told me straight up he was wearing it from crap pitchers, since he barely felt their throws, but he would bail out if the pitcher was good.
I made this thread to share awareness that the teaching and habit of getting of HBP is not good, and the under 13 for the most part can get away with that since the MPH hasn't gotten there yet since max 70+ at that point. Fair warning, the next level can have 80+.



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SeattleAg » April 12th, 2021, 9:44 am

SLB wrote:
April 9th, 2021, 8:58 pm
SeattleAg wrote:
April 9th, 2021, 9:46 am
Observations on this from youth baseball:
The kids are taught to roll out of the way of pitches and I haven't seen any team (my son's or opponents) where the kids are trying to get hit. We are currently in 13U, for what that's worth. There is a combination of "good movement" and overall razzing when someone dodges an inside pitch, and plenty of "way to wear it!" when someone gets hit and runs down to first.
The kids aren't dumb, though. They know who is throwing junk and who is throwing heat. You don't see anyone turning into a 70+ fastball and everything goes quiet when a kid gets hit hard. However, when some kid is tossing 40 mph off speed stuff, you can tell when the batters aren't really trying to get out of the way.

As early as 4th grade, my kid (who bats lefty and was thus plunked a ton) told me straight up he was wearing it from crap pitchers, since he barely felt their throws, but he would bail out if the pitcher was good.
I made this thread to share awareness that the teaching and habit of getting of HBP is not good, and the under 13 for the most part can get away with that since the MPH hasn't gotten there yet since max 70+ at that point. Fair warning, the next level can have 80+.
Oh yeah, they are aware. Like I said, the kids aren't dumb. (Can't speak for all parents and coaches....) My kid had a bruise for several days after getting one in practice from our fireballer. "I tried to roll out of the way, but it just kept breaking. Good thing is WAS a breaking ball, otherwise I'd be dead."



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Re: Baseball and hit by a pitch issue

Post by SLB » April 12th, 2021, 4:00 pm

SeattleAg wrote:
April 12th, 2021, 9:44 am
SLB wrote:
April 9th, 2021, 8:58 pm
SeattleAg wrote:
April 9th, 2021, 9:46 am
Observations on this from youth baseball:
The kids are taught to roll out of the way of pitches and I haven't seen any team (my son's or opponents) where the kids are trying to get hit. We are currently in 13U, for what that's worth. There is a combination of "good movement" and overall razzing when someone dodges an inside pitch, and plenty of "way to wear it!" when someone gets hit and runs down to first.
The kids aren't dumb, though. They know who is throwing junk and who is throwing heat. You don't see anyone turning into a 70+ fastball and everything goes quiet when a kid gets hit hard. However, when some kid is tossing 40 mph off speed stuff, you can tell when the batters aren't really trying to get out of the way.

As early as 4th grade, my kid (who bats lefty and was thus plunked a ton) told me straight up he was wearing it from crap pitchers, since he barely felt their throws, but he would bail out if the pitcher was good.
I made this thread to share awareness that the teaching and habit of getting of HBP is not good, and the under 13 for the most part can get away with that since the MPH hasn't gotten there yet since max 70+ at that point. Fair warning, the next level can have 80+.
Oh yeah, they are aware. Like I said, the kids aren't dumb. (Can't speak for all parents and coaches....) My kid had a bruise for several days after getting one in practice from our fireballer. "I tried to roll out of the way, but it just kept breaking. Good thing is WAS a breaking ball, otherwise I'd be dead."
There are coaches teaching the whole HBP approach. My dad is a Beaver fan, and HBP approach with about every college batter that they face.



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