Holy Utah Jazz

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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am

Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by aggies22 » June 17th, 2021, 7:13 am

The Jazz are screwed. I expect they'll lay another egg in L.A. on Friday.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie84025 » June 17th, 2021, 7:54 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.
I never thought that Trae Young would translate to the NBA game, but boy was i wrong. He is a very good player and is incredible what he does with his size.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by NVAggie » June 17th, 2021, 8:15 am

Jazz have lived and died by the 3 all year. They have never struck me as a championship caliber team. When the shooters are on, they are tough to beat. Last night they forced the ball out of Mitchell's hand and kept an eye on Bogdanovic. No one else could step up and knock down open shots. The Clippers answered every run down the stretch. Their role players made big shots. They were definitely the better team last night.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by 3rdGenAggie » June 17th, 2021, 8:34 am

The Jazz's 3 and D style isn't a problem at all. It's very much a championship winning philosophy. The problem is 2 out of 3 guys that can break someone down off the dribble to keep defenders honest are both hurt, one likely won't play a minute in this entire series. And the third has struggled.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by El Sapo » June 17th, 2021, 9:01 am

During the Jazz v TWolves series Dramond Green was on the panel with Shaq and Barkley. They discussed how great Rudy was and Green said that you could beat Rudy. He said you needed to get him in out of positions where his comfort / stregnth was. Barkley said Green was just being pissy because he wanted to be named DPOY and Rudy was going to win that award, but Green gave some examples of what to do on offense to take advantage of Rudy.

I think we've seen Green's strategy play out the past 5 games. Gobert isn't being avoided, he's being isolated and attacked, successfully


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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by brownjeans » June 17th, 2021, 9:04 am

When did Marcus Morris become so good?
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 17th, 2021, 9:27 am

3rdGenAggie wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 8:34 am
The Jazz's 3 and D style isn't a problem at all. It's very much a championship winning philosophy. The problem is 2 out of 3 guys that can break someone down off the dribble to keep defenders honest are both hurt, one likely won't play a minute in this entire series. And the third has struggled.
Their offense has been a thing of beauty, but you do have to adapt when things aren't working and take advantage of the other teams weakness. Taking more than 2/3 of your shots from 3 last night was not a good strategy when the Clippers had a glaring weakness down low. It was great when they were dropping early, but the second half was painful to watch. It felt like watching an Aggie game last year in some of our poor 3 pt shooting displays.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 17th, 2021, 9:30 am

Aggie84025 wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 7:54 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.
I never thought that Trae Young would translate to the NBA game, but boy was i wrong. He is a very good player and is incredible what he does with his size.
Yeah I thought Dallas robbed the Hawks when they did that draft day trade to get Luka, but that has been proven to be wrong. Sure Luka is an incredible player, but so is Trae Young dropping 30 a night with 11 assists against the 1 seed.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by 3rdGenAggie » June 17th, 2021, 11:49 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 9:30 am
Aggie84025 wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 7:54 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.
I never thought that Trae Young would translate to the NBA game, but boy was i wrong. He is a very good player and is incredible what he does with his size.
Yeah I thought Dallas robbed the Hawks when they did that draft day trade to get Luka, but that has been proven to be wrong. Sure Luka is an incredible player, but so is Trae Young dropping 30 a night with 11 assists against the 1 seed.
I'd still take Luka, but Trey Young is fantastic.


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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 17th, 2021, 11:54 am

3rdGenAggie wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 11:49 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 9:30 am
Aggie84025 wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 7:54 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.
I never thought that Trae Young would translate to the NBA game, but boy was i wrong. He is a very good player and is incredible what he does with his size.
Yeah I thought Dallas robbed the Hawks when they did that draft day trade to get Luka, but that has been proven to be wrong. Sure Luka is an incredible player, but so is Trae Young dropping 30 a night with 11 assists against the 1 seed.
I'd still take Luka, but Trey Young is fantastic.
Yeah, it was a rare trade where both teams won by getting franchise superstars. I don't think either fanbase is upset at all with the trade.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by slcagg » June 17th, 2021, 11:58 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 11:54 am
3rdGenAggie wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 11:49 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 9:30 am
Aggie84025 wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 7:54 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.
I never thought that Trae Young would translate to the NBA game, but boy was i wrong. He is a very good player and is incredible what he does with his size.
Yeah I thought Dallas robbed the Hawks when they did that draft day trade to get Luka, but that has been proven to be wrong. Sure Luka is an incredible player, but so is Trae Young dropping 30 a night with 11 assists against the 1 seed.
I'd still take Luka, but Trey Young is fantastic.
Yeah, it was a rare trade where both teams won by getting franchise superstars. I don't think either fanbase is upset at all with the trade.
Imagine passing on both and taking Ayton. I recall telling a friend of mine at the time who is a suns fan that they should draft luka.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Mr. Sneelock » June 17th, 2021, 12:33 pm

It sucks that Mitchell is playing hurt and we haven't seen Conley at all this series. I feel like if the Jazz could consistently drive into the lane things would open up. The problem is that we are relying on Bogie, Ingles, and Niang to drive, and none of them is good/quick enough to beat a guy one on one. Mitchell is, but he is obviously hurt. Conley is too, but he has hamstring issues.

And for the love of all that is holy, Niang and Favors are absolutely unplayable right now. I can't believe Quin Snyder is even letting them anywhere near the floor. The Jazz defensive rating with Favors on the floor is atrocious. And Niang has one job - hit open 3s, and he isn't even doing that. In one sequence last night he missed a shot, completely blew a defensive assignment, and then turned the ball over. 8-0 run by the Clippers. Atrocious.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 17th, 2021, 12:58 pm

slcagg wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 11:58 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 11:54 am
3rdGenAggie wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 11:49 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 9:30 am
Aggie84025 wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 7:54 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 1:11 am
Yossarian wrote:
June 17th, 2021, 12:45 am
At this point, Trae Young looks more valuable than Mitchell.
Mitchell had an incredible stretch before tonight. He has had an awesome playoff run. Yes the injury sucks, but you can't just tell your superstar to sit. It has to be his call and he isn't going to voluntarily miss a playoff game.
I never thought that Trae Young would translate to the NBA game, but boy was i wrong. He is a very good player and is incredible what he does with his size.
Yeah I thought Dallas robbed the Hawks when they did that draft day trade to get Luka, but that has been proven to be wrong. Sure Luka is an incredible player, but so is Trae Young dropping 30 a night with 11 assists against the 1 seed.
I'd still take Luka, but Trey Young is fantastic.
Yeah, it was a rare trade where both teams won by getting franchise superstars. I don't think either fanbase is upset at all with the trade.
Imagine passing on both and taking Ayton. I recall telling a friend of mine at the time who is a suns fan that they should draft luka.
True, although the kings blew it worse with bagley.
Ayton is at least a pretty good big who will probably make a few all star games.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Mr. Sneelock » June 18th, 2021, 10:46 am

Sounds like Conley may play tonight. I imagine Mitchell will too, though he is obviously not 100%.

The only guys that should play tonight are Conley, Mitchell, O'Neal, Bogey, Gobert, Ingles, and Clarkson. Rudy and Bogey should play 48 minutes if they can. Or maybe sub them each out for a couple of minutes when all other starters are on the court. Favors and Niang are unplayable. Just roll the dice and hope Gobert can stay out of foul trouble and remain effective in limited minutes.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by SwaggieAggie » June 18th, 2021, 4:20 pm

Jazz in 7
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Yossarian » June 18th, 2021, 8:29 pm

Put back dunk by Mann was goaltending. Clearly in the cylinder



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 18th, 2021, 9:13 pm

Much smarter game offensively so far. The Jazz are hitting from 3, but they are also penetrating and playing for the best shot instead of completely selling out to 3 pointers which is giving them better looks from 3 when they are available. It is a beauty to watch.


As beautiful as that first half was, that second half was :puke:

Just terrible defensively. Letting Terrence Mann play like he is Kevin Durant on you is just a flat out disgrace.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Yossarian » June 18th, 2021, 9:56 pm

25 point lead down to 7. Jazz starting to tighten up. Cannot stop Mann. Series over.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by brownjeans » June 18th, 2021, 10:02 pm

I really don't understand Snyder's distribution of minutes in the playoffs - he runs rotations like it's normal old game. Meanwhile the other team is maximizing their best players and hottest hands.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Yossarian » June 18th, 2021, 10:25 pm

Watching the Clippers make Gobert look silly and a liability in this game makes me wonder if there is a place for Queta in today's NBA.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by FeartheFro » June 18th, 2021, 10:27 pm

I’m wondering if there’s a place for Gobert in the NBA. This is how every team will try to play the jazz moving forward.


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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Mr. Sneelock » June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm

What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 18th, 2021, 10:40 pm

FeartheFro wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:27 pm
I’m wondering if there’s a place for Gobert in the NBA. This is how every team will try to play the jazz moving forward.


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Yeah he is showing he isn't worth his contract. I love watching him in the season and he is a great regular season player, but he has consistently been underwhelming in the playoffs. If you can't be a rim protector when it matters and you are already limited offensively, your regular season plus minus really only means so much.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Yossarian » June 18th, 2021, 10:42 pm

FeartheFro wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:27 pm
I’m wondering if there’s a place for Gobert in the NBA. This is how every team will try to play the jazz moving forward.


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Three times in a row a 6'1" bench player drove and scored right over Gobert. He was a complete liability in this series.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Yossarian » June 18th, 2021, 10:43 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm
What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
A choke job for the ages.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 18th, 2021, 10:49 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm
What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
Quin Snyder deserves to take a ton of heat for this. I'm not saying he should be fired, but he has now put forth two massive chokes in consecutive years. He was outcoached by Lue and it wasn't really close. To blow this series not just being up 2-0, but when they didn't have Kawhi was just horrible. A lot of blame to go around, but the jazz coming out of halftime these past two games was awful.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » June 18th, 2021, 11:04 pm

Jazz built an entire defense around a guy that gets tentative when he's not the help defender coming over the top. Every time guys went directly at him tonight they scored over him. He didn't even try to get out to the 3 pt line to defend. He gives you very little offensively, so if defensively he's not bringing it you've got to take him out, his sensitivity be damned. No adjustments by Snyder during an incredible collapse.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by 3rdGenAggie » June 18th, 2021, 11:05 pm

I love Rudy, but the clothes are off the emperor, at least in the playoffs. If he can't figure it out immediately going forward, his contract will be a millstone around the Jazz's neck and Donovan will demand a trade in the next 2-3 years.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Mr. Sneelock » June 18th, 2021, 11:07 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:49 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm
What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
Quin Snyder deserves to take a ton of heat for this. I'm not saying he should be fired, but he has now put forth two massive chokes in consecutive years. He was outcoached by Lue and it wasn't really close. To blow this series not just being up 2-0, but when they didn't have Kawhi was just horrible. A lot of blame to go around, but the jazz coming out of halftime these past two games was awful.
He was badly out-coached last year by Michael Malone too. You have to be able to make adjustments in a playoff series. Teams figure out what you want to do and adjust. You can't just keep trying to do what you've always done. The Jazz (Clarkson mostly) were torching then in the first half, and the Clippers made some adjustments and shut that down. How many times in the second half did the clippers run that same damn play that for a wide open 3 in the corner? No adjustment was ever made as far as I can tell.

And it mostly wasn't Rudy's fault. The Jazz perimeter defenders have to do a better job of keeping their guys out of the paint. Rudy had to help EVERY single time, leaving Mann wise open in the corner.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » June 18th, 2021, 11:08 pm

It wasn't just tonight that Rudy was exposed. Basically during the 4 game streak by the Clips they decided to roll the dice that they would benefit much more offensively than they'd give up defensively by going small. Snyder didn't adjust.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Mr. Sneelock » June 18th, 2021, 11:10 pm

The Jazz kept trying to defend 5 perimeter players with 4 perimeter defenders (only one of whom is any good defensively). The Jazz kept trying to do what they did all year - feed them to Rudy near the rim. Well, the Clippers just happen to have the personnel to play 5 out offensively. They didn't really need to score at the rim because they always had wide open corner catch and shoot 3s, which are pretty much the holy grail shot in the NBA. No adjustments were ever made. That's on Quin.
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » June 18th, 2021, 11:11 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 11:07 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:49 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm
What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
Quin Snyder deserves to take a ton of heat for this. I'm not saying he should be fired, but he has now put forth two massive chokes in consecutive years. He was outcoached by Lue and it wasn't really close. To blow this series not just being up 2-0, but when they didn't have Kawhi was just horrible. A lot of blame to go around, but the jazz coming out of halftime these past two games was awful.
He was badly out-coached last year by Michael Malone too. You have to be able to make adjustments in a playoff series. Teams figure out what you want to do and adjust. You can't just keep trying to do what you've always done. The Jazz (Clarkson mostly) were torching then in the first half, and the Clippers made some adjustments and shut that down. How many times in the second half did the clippers run that same damn play that for a wide open 3 in the corner? No adjustment was ever made as far as I can tell.

And it mostly wasn't Rudy's fault. The Jazz perimeter defenders have to do a better job of keeping their guys out of the paint. Rudy had to help EVERY single time, leaving Mann wise open in the corner.
The way fouls are called in the NBA it's pretty tough to stay in front of your man, but unless your 5 is both a rim protector and an offensive weapon, playing with just a rim protector is 4 v 5. It's too easy to turn a limited 5 into a net negative.



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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » June 18th, 2021, 11:16 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 11:11 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 11:07 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:49 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm
What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
Quin Snyder deserves to take a ton of heat for this. I'm not saying he should be fired, but he has now put forth two massive chokes in consecutive years. He was outcoached by Lue and it wasn't really close. To blow this series not just being up 2-0, but when they didn't have Kawhi was just horrible. A lot of blame to go around, but the jazz coming out of halftime these past two games was awful.
He was badly out-coached last year by Michael Malone too. You have to be able to make adjustments in a playoff series. Teams figure out what you want to do and adjust. You can't just keep trying to do what you've always done. The Jazz (Clarkson mostly) were torching then in the first half, and the Clippers made some adjustments and shut that down. How many times in the second half did the clippers run that same damn play that for a wide open 3 in the corner? No adjustment was ever made as far as I can tell.

And it mostly wasn't Rudy's fault. The Jazz perimeter defenders have to do a better job of keeping their guys out of the paint. Rudy had to help EVERY single time, leaving Mann wise open in the corner.
The way fouls are called in the NBA it's pretty tough to stay in front of your man, but unless your 5 is both a rim protector and an offensive weapon, playing with just a rim protector is 4 v 5. It's too easy to turn a limited 5 into a net negative.
With the current state of the NBA, the bottomline is unless you are some incredible defensive phenom(that really doesn't exist), you have to be a great scorer to be worthy of a max contract in the NBA.

People thought Rudy was that incredible defensive phenom, but he has shown time and time again when it matters in the playoffs, he is far from it.



slcagg
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Re: Holy Utah Jazz

Post by slcagg » June 18th, 2021, 11:27 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 11:16 pm
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 11:11 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 11:07 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:49 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
June 18th, 2021, 10:39 pm
What an epic disaster. Horrible series by Snyder and Gobert. Worse for Niang and Favors. Ridiculous. I better hear some guys take some responsibility. I didn't see a single adjustment. 80 freaking points in the second half. I mean, my hell. Have some damn pride.
Quin Snyder deserves to take a ton of heat for this. I'm not saying he should be fired, but he has now put forth two massive chokes in consecutive years. He was outcoached by Lue and it wasn't really close. To blow this series not just being up 2-0, but when they didn't have Kawhi was just horrible. A lot of blame to go around, but the jazz coming out of halftime these past two games was awful.
He was badly out-coached last year by Michael Malone too. You have to be able to make adjustments in a playoff series. Teams figure out what you want to do and adjust. You can't just keep trying to do what you've always done. The Jazz (Clarkson mostly) were torching then in the first half, and the Clippers made some adjustments and shut that down. How many times in the second half did the clippers run that same damn play that for a wide open 3 in the corner? No adjustment was ever made as far as I can tell.

And it mostly wasn't Rudy's fault. The Jazz perimeter defenders have to do a better job of keeping their guys out of the paint. Rudy had to help EVERY single time, leaving Mann wise open in the corner.
The way fouls are called in the NBA it's pretty tough to stay in front of your man, but unless your 5 is both a rim protector and an offensive weapon, playing with just a rim protector is 4 v 5. It's too easy to turn a limited 5 into a net negative.
With the current state of the NBA, the bottomline is unless you are some incredible defensive phenom(that really doesn't exist), you have to be a great scorer to be worthy of a max contract in the NBA.

People thought Rudy was that incredible defensive phenom, but he has shown time and time again when it matters in the playoffs, he is far from it.
Small ball. Houston did it and now la and it worked. Love Rudy but hard to beat those teams that can do that because he can’t punish them offensively.



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