Catch-all (WAC sucks, Big Sky, MWC, Indy, etc)

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USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by dyedblue » June 14th, 2011, 4:17 pm

Where's is MTA's prophetic posts now?

As per Tony Jones...

TonyAggieville Tony Jones
Fullerton says he would like to extend invites to Utah State and Idaho....the plot thickens
19 minutes ago
»
Tony Jones
TonyAggieville Tony Jones
Montana, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, Sacramento State and Portland State are amongst the schools to reject WAC overtures, Fullerton says
20 minutes ago
»
Tony Jones
TonyAggieville Tony Jones
Big Sky Commish Doug Fullerton tells the Tribune that the WAC has contacted - and been turned down - by at least six of his schools
21 minutes ago


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by GeoAg » June 14th, 2011, 4:23 pm

FCS football is a money losing proposition.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by MetsJetsAggies » June 14th, 2011, 4:24 pm

And we will deny them just like their schools turned down the WAC



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by AgSpaceCase » June 14th, 2011, 4:32 pm

To clarify the rejection, how I see it, from Montana and and the Cal school "Yes we want to move up but we have no money right now to make the move". As I said on the WAC board, Had the economy been better the majority of the BSC would be eager to move up but with the economy increasign scholarships and budget dramatically just doesn't make sense yet and will take some time.

Looks like behind the scenes Montana Montana State and others are making those upgrades for what i hope is future inclusion.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by utahstateaggiesalltheway » June 14th, 2011, 5:08 pm

Maybe we could move into the Big Sky for all sports except football? Keep football in the WAC.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by utaggies » June 14th, 2011, 5:14 pm

utahstateaggiesalltheway wrote:Maybe we could move into the Big Sky for all sports except football? Keep football in the WAC.
And maybe we could just shoot ourselves in the crotch right now. It would be much less pain and suffering than going to the Big Sky.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by utahstateaggiesalltheway » June 14th, 2011, 5:16 pm

utaggies wrote:
utahstateaggiesalltheway wrote:Maybe we could move into the Big Sky for all sports except football? Keep football in the WAC.
And maybe we could just shoot ourselves in the crotch right now. It would be much less pain and suffering than going to the Big Sky.
:) :) :)



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Empire of Dirt » June 14th, 2011, 8:20 pm

Where are all of the "Big Sky would not be that bad" folks? Should we make the jump? :crazy:


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by GameFAQSAggie » June 14th, 2011, 8:45 pm

Empire of Dirt wrote:Where are all of the "Big Sky would not be that bad" folks? Should we make the jump? :crazy:
If the Big Sky as a conference is moved to the FBS level, it would be a good more to move there.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by wsucatfan » June 14th, 2011, 9:03 pm

I posted this on the WSU site a while back: http://wildcats.bigskyfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1876

I suggest we take the 3 of the 4 remaining Big Sky charter schools (WSU,UM, MSU), Sac St, and PSU or EWU (probably PSU, this would be a better basketball conference with them over EWU, and I really don't like the red turf) then merge into a new conference with WAC members Idaho, SJSU, USU, and NMSU. Let LA Tech go back to a closer conference.

Six former BCS teams keeps the auto bid for the NCAA basketball tournament. Initially the 6 BCS schools stay in FCS level and must move up to FBS within XX years.

Rivals:
UM/MSU
USU/Weber
Sac/SJSU
UM/Idaho
NAU/NMSU
No natural rivals for PSU

Leaves the Big Sky with:
SUU
ISU
EWU
UND
UNC
Cal Poly and UC Davis Fball only

The conference footprint is smaller, so travel is reduced, natural rivalries would be maintained/renewed. The conference would be a better basketball conference than either future WAC/Big Sky conference will be in 2-3 years. The football would be a work in process but in the end I think would be stronger than other options.

My pipe dream...



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Agzrule » June 14th, 2011, 9:43 pm

No way this is going to happen, but it would be interesting and would probably be a two bid basketball league for sure.

Football
FBS Division
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Portland State
Utah State
NMSU
San Jose State
Sac State

FCS Division
Northern Colorado
Southern Utah
Idaho State
Northern Arizona
Eastern Washington
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Weber State


Basketball

NMSU
Utah State
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
Idaho State
Northern Arizona

San Jose State
Sac State
Eastern Washington
Portland State
Idaho
Montana
Montana State



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by wsucatfan » June 14th, 2011, 10:09 pm

Villanova has been and continues to be a FCS school in the Big East, you never know what will happen...



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by SoCalAggie » June 14th, 2011, 11:06 pm

I mentioned the idea of the Big Sky going FBS and keeping a FCS conference too a while back. Its a novel idea. Problem is that there would be no bowl tie ins at this point, and the FBC schools would have nothing to play for... so a not so good idea after all. :noidea:


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by dyedblue » June 14th, 2011, 11:19 pm

Good discussion.

My .02 worth: I find it misleading to declare that we approached 6 Big Sky teams and each of them declined our overtures. Is it that they turned us down or that they, like Weber, realize that they go from a couple of million dollar football program to ten million or more for a football program? Infrastructure for renovated stadiums is also a deal killer for most of the teams on the list. I think a lot of these schools would eventually like to make the jump but with a down economy and $$$$$$$$ needed to move up and compete are prohibitive at this point in time.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by bigbluebaby » June 15th, 2011, 8:20 am

For those of you who are even semi seriously considering being in the big sky..

ARE YOU FREAKIN OUT OF YOUR MINDS???!!!

Sorry, had to get that out.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Aggieiester » June 15th, 2011, 8:57 am

wsucatfan wrote:I posted this on the WSU site a while back: http://wildcats.bigskyfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1876

I suggest we take the 3 of the 4 remaining Big Sky charter schools (WSU,UM, MSU), Sac St, and PSU or EWU (probably PSU, this would be a better basketball conference with them over EWU, and I really don't like the red turf) then merge into a new conference with WAC members Idaho, SJSU, USU, and NMSU. Let LA Tech go back to a closer conference.

Six former BCS teams keeps the auto bid for the NCAA basketball tournament. Initially the 6 BCS schools stay in FCS level and must move up to FBS within XX years.

Rivals:
UM/MSU
USU/Weber
Sac/SJSU
UM/Idaho
NAU/NMSU
No natural rivals for PSU

Leaves the Big Sky with:
SUU
ISU
EWU
UND
UNC
Cal Poly and UC Davis Fball only

The conference footprint is smaller, so travel is reduced, natural rivalries would be maintained/renewed. The conference would be a better basketball conference than either future WAC/Big Sky conference will be in 2-3 years. The football would be a work in process but in the end I think would be stronger than other options.

My pipe dream...
I do have a question for Wildcat fans in general. Is there a reason why your administration was not as aggressive as UVU in obtaining an invite to the WAC? Is it the instability of the league or is it that WSU just not interested in pursuing FBS status> My thoughts are that if WSU pushed for a WAC invite in the next year, the WAC would almost have to add them.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by dyedblue » June 15th, 2011, 9:29 am

Weber's AD has publicly stated that he is happy with where their program is at now and that they simply are not ready to move up at this time.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by BearLakeMonster » June 15th, 2011, 9:39 am

bigbluebaby wrote:For those of you who are even semi seriously considering being in the big sky..

ARE YOU FREAKIN OUT OF YOUR MINDS???!!!

Sorry, had to get that out.
Couldn't have said it better.

I feel like the very fabric of reality is being warped by some of these threads. USU to the Big Sky. Up is down. There is no spoon.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by wsucatfan » June 15th, 2011, 9:55 am

dyedblue wrote:Weber's AD has publicly stated that he is happy with where their program is at now and that they simply are not ready to move up at this time.
Yes Jerry Bovee has stated WSU is not ready to make the FBS jump, but with the improvements to the stadium, new lights that are higher lumens for tv night games installed last year, field turf being installed now, and a future new north plaza I think the right steps are in motion.

Also,consider WSU would need a guarrantee that if we applied for WAC membership we would not get railroaded by any particular school north of Ogden... UVU is even more of a joke now after being turned down over Seattle U.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Weberstguy » June 15th, 2011, 9:56 am

I can't speak for all Weber State fans, but the reason why we aren't moving is the FBS as we know it is going away in a hurry. You are starting to see it all crumble. This is an article of one mans oppinion, but it is how I see it as well. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... ll-conquer
I think this guy is spot on with what is happening and our commissoner knows it is going to happen so he is setting up the Big Sky to be ready for when it does. This is why six universities have turned down the WAC. When this does happen I think you guys will like the view of being in this new division. I enjoy being a fan of an FCS team. Basketball always is the priority at Weber State, very much the same way you guys do. Utah State has a budget of 20 million and Weber has a budget of 10 million, which is a heck of a lot closer than when you look at Utah and BYU compared to Utah State.
Weber's AD has said he isn't worrying about going up to the FBS because we don't have the fan base yet even though it is improving. 7,000 is our average which should be a lot better I agree, but if we had BYU, Fresno, Hawaii, and Idaho coming into Stewart Stadium we would be atleast 10,000 which isn't your level yet but it is in the ballpark. You know as well as I do in basketball we are a major rival of yours and I want to see it grow. Our students aren't as wild and crazy as yours, but they are improving and creating an atmosphere and in the next 2 years I can see us being a force to be reckoned with. I think we should make a new conference like WSUcatfan suggested.
I am one who has enjoyed watching UVU act like a little brother who feels they are picked on. The salt lake media, especially Dave Fox and the Trib, are showing they are fools and don't get it. UVU ONLY MAKES $40,000 IN TICKET REVENUE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD IN ALL SPORTS. Weber makes that in 3 basketball games and is almost to $600,000 in ticket revenue, but we get it. We know what our plan is and are going to be ready for it. Stadium upgrades are being done to our football stadium every year (please we need new restrooms) and it is going to be something to be proud of in 2 years. I really think when you guys look at us, I know it is a tough pill to swallow, but we are becoming a partner and rival to fill the void Utah and BYU are leaving because they are going their seperate ways.
I will sit back and enjoy your comments.
We are Weber and we are building to a championship.



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Would It Have Been Better To Stay In The Sun Belt?

Post by AggieFBObsession » June 15th, 2011, 10:25 am

Just curious to know what everyone thinks.



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Re: Would It Have Been Better To Stay In The Sun Belt?

Post by Agzrule » June 15th, 2011, 10:28 am

NO, basketball would have died, Stew would not have stayed here. We were dying in the Belt in football, next to zero fan interest in playing football teams from the south that are not in the SEC.



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Re: Would It Have Been Better To Stay In The Sun Belt?

Post by GeoAg » June 15th, 2011, 10:38 am

Agzrule wrote:NO, basketball would have died, Stew would not have stayed here. We were dying in the Belt in football, next to zero fan interest in playing football teams from the south that are not in the SEC.
Agreed. No. It would have been better not to get involved in the project, however. USU should steer as far away as possible from any conference realignmnet involving the one true team. It has always worked to our detriment.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Imakeitrain » June 15th, 2011, 10:49 am

The CFAl? It seems like it would essentially put us in a inferior league... w a team like Boise be able to play for the major bowl games or a national championship... they get screwed... no one is going to watch a league other than the one that is considered the best one... USU would essentially go down to a new 1-AA and the current 1-AA schools that are unlucky go to the new Division 2 or 3... no one seems to benefit, except those that just stay where they are... (IE, the 1-AA schools that get upgraded, aren't because their still in the 2nd tier) and those that make the CFA just remain in 1-A... The fact that Boise, TCU and Utah have built annually contending teams shows that taking teams out of the picture is a bad idea... and that you cant just discount teams in the WAC or MWC simply because they dont spend as much as Oklahoma... one reason our spending is lower is we dont effin care about sports other than Football and Basketball... other than for purposes of satisfying title IX...
Last edited by Imakeitrain on June 15th, 2011, 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by TrueBlue » June 15th, 2011, 10:50 am

This thread is incredibly depressing...



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Re: Would It Have Been Better To Stay In The Sun Belt?

Post by AgSpaceCase » June 15th, 2011, 10:53 am

Being in the WAC the last few years has forced our administrations hand in ways the Sun belt never did/would. In two years in a good economy in the sun belt our budget was stagnant, coaching hires were bad, and facilities ever worse. In the Wac we were force to do something and now our budget is about double, better coaching, more fan interest, better fund-raising, upgrading facilities, higher recruiting in all sports. We were floundering in the sun belt for football and there was no direction and drive to change that while we were there.

Did you realize that in the big west for the last several years woman's soccer didn't even qualify for the conference tournament, now we are winning the WAC with better coaches and better recruiting. I think the being in the WAC forced our administration and athletic department to upgrade all aspects under their control instead of just tent poling under basketball and ignoring the rest.

In the sun Belt we lose Stew, in the Sun belt we don't get Gary Anderson, in the sun belt we don't get half the north endzone complex, we don't get Scott Barnes, we don't get NCAA bid for volleyball, and eventually we would get middle of the pack Big Sky membership and not fighting for MWC membership.
Last edited by AgSpaceCase on June 15th, 2011, 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by 40Aggie » June 15th, 2011, 11:06 am

I hate the douche that writes this blog because he bags on USU all the time, but his last entry is about the Big Sky splitting up similar to what Agzrule posted earlier in this thread. The conference he proposed would be better than what we currently have, but I just can't see it happening.

http://wasatchswagger.blogspot.com/2011 ... ading.html



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Empire of Dirt » June 15th, 2011, 11:07 am

BearLakeMonster wrote:
bigbluebaby wrote:For those of you who are even semi seriously considering being in the big sky..

ARE YOU FREAKIN OUT OF YOUR MINDS???!!!

Sorry, had to get that out.
Couldn't have said it better.

I feel like the very fabric of reality is being warped by some of these threads. USU to the Big Sky. Up is down. There is no spoon.
Amen, I feel like I have entered Bizarro world.

So, here is what I am gathering from some of you (usually reasonable people.) The WAC (an FBS conference with 5-7 FBS teams) cannot get 1 team from the Big Sky (an FCS conference) to come to the WAC and become an FBS Team. However, the Big Sky (an FCS conference) can invite 2 FBS teams from the WAC and it will somehow become an FBS conference???

Badbye.


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Re: Would It Have Been Better To Stay In The Sun Belt?

Post by Empire of Dirt » June 15th, 2011, 11:13 am

GeoAg wrote:
Agzrule wrote:NO, basketball would have died, Stew would not have stayed here. We were dying in the Belt in football, next to zero fan interest in playing football teams from the south that are not in the SEC.
Agreed. No. It would have been better not to get involved in the project, however. USU should steer as far away as possible from any conference realignmnet involving the one true team. It has always worked to our detriment.
Agree again, no. However, I am not so sure that getting involved in the project was such a bad thing, at least we were being proactive (nothing ventured, nothing gained.) However, we needed better execution and more discrete communications. Also, once it all blew up, we should have been a little smarter with turning the MWC away when we were contacted.

And please for the love of god, don't tell me that we did the honorable thing. :bs:


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Re: Would It Have Been Better To Stay In The Sun Belt?

Post by KissMyAg » June 15th, 2011, 11:41 am

USU = no... NMSU = maybe.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by Aggieiester » June 15th, 2011, 12:44 pm

I understand that this is a depressing thread but this is something that has been a long time coming and there have been numerous warnings given.

Right or wrong Football success it pretty much all that considered in conference expansions, it's not a secret and USU should be full aware of that fact over that last 20+ years but has consistently ignored the obvious signs.

When USU entered the WAC in 2005 it was a golden opportunity to make an impression and move up the college football feeding chain.

What did USU do?

The late Kermit Hall proclaimed that it would not cost the university any more money to move to the WAC, that was wrong.

They then hired Brent Guy, like him or hate him he was not given anywhere near the resources to win on a WAC level, had to take his fourth choice for OC because up the limited salary available and bused to Laramie WY for a game to save money. Urban Meyer would have struggled in that situation.

The result?
A 9-38 record during the Brent Guy era including 8-24 in the WAC, one of the worst if not the worst records in the WAC during that time period and this was on top of a disastrous stint as an independent and in the Sun Belt.

Fortunately it seems that some of the lessons have been learned, Andersen and his staff are real FBS coaches paid a somewhat competitive salary. Funds are in place to help retain good coaches, facilities have been built and scheduling has improved. The problem is that USU has not had a chance to see the full return on the football investment to date and unfortunately this is the time when conferences are changing and they have nothing to go on as far as USU having any past success. If the steps taken in 2009 to hire Gary Andersen had taken place four years earlier USU would be in a much better position in regards to conference affiliation.

What needs to be learned from this is that regardless if where USU lands they need to be at or near the top of whatever conference they are in, if they do good things will happen.



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Is there a reason the WAC is not responding to this crap?

Post by GeoAg » June 15th, 2011, 2:45 pm

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/0 ... _place_wac

Benson, you are letting the commissioner of a po-dunk FCS conference kick your butt in the media. Barnes and Albrecht, you are doing the same. Some of his comments are laughable. The league should at least have some AD step out and cut this guy off at the knees. Unless...please no!


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Re: Is there a reason the WAC is not responding to this crap

Post by dyedblue » June 15th, 2011, 2:52 pm

Found a peanut
Found a peanut...


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Re: Is there a reason the WAC is not responding to this crap

Post by Steve509 » June 15th, 2011, 3:00 pm

I was wondering the same thing myslef. Maybe Benson is keeping his cards close to his chest until he can be certain no current members will accept a Big Sky invitation. I did find it a bit odd the the schools mentioned were ID & USU. IMO, they're the least likely to accept because both of those schools have a legit shot at becoming the 'big dog' in the WAC. Maybe Fullerton has had enough of Benson approaching his schools and decided to fire off a warning shot.

I would be more concerned if we hear news that SJSU is speaking to the Big Sky. If Fullerton can lure just one WAC school to the Big Sky, that spells real trouble for the WAC and their hopes of getting one or more FB teams to join.

It could also be that the WAC has decided the best way to handle this is to ignore it and let it blow over. In a week this could be all but forgotten.



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Re: USU to be invited to the Big Sky?

Post by wsuwaldo » June 15th, 2011, 3:05 pm

Things are looking bleak for the Aggies. Bummer deal for you guys.

As for Weber, there just isn't any revenue in the WAC to make the jump worthwhile. Weber would need a lot of money to make the move. I suspect, the same goes for UM. MSU is in an even worse situation than Weber they are barely in the black. Out of the Big Sky schools, only UM is ready to make a jump. Yes, PSU and SAC are in large cities, but they aren't exactly schools that improve the appearance of the WAC. Have you ever been to Stott or the Hornets nest? Yes, PGE is nice now, but its a soccer field more so than a football field.

Unfortunately, without bowl games, TV/media deals, teams with recent football success, or regional rivalries, there isn't any reason to join the WAC. Someone said, probably in another thread, that the Sun Belt was a bad situation, since USU was playing teams in the South that weren't good enough to join the SEC (sorry for the misquote, quick paraphrase). How is the new look WAC any different than the Sun Belt? The Sun Belt would be a far more attractive option than the new WAC for USU. Those "new" southern teams are far worse than their Sun Belt brothern. None of them bring a media package/deal, recent success, or any sort of historic rivalry to the conference.

Weber wouldn't be any better, however, for USU and Idaho Weber would bring a solid regional rival. Fact of the matter is, Weber isn't ready financially to make the move. I balk at the fan base argument. The fans always come when the teams are doing well; especially in basketball (11K were at the Dee for the BYU game last December). If USU came to Stewart, or next Nov 15, when you come to the Dee, the stadiums would/will be close to being full (I love instate games). Yes a stronger rivalry with USU would be a huge boast to Weber, it might be a benefit to USU as well.

Anyway, whatever the case may be, the WAC, if it survives, isn't the conference that will benefit USU. The level of competition isn't anywhere as good as it was last year, and it will only get worse. Too bad that the Boise JC is in control of the MWC now, maybe Benson can find a job as Thompson's associate lol, that isn't a good thing for USU.



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