Baseball Talk - No Hitter

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Yossarian
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Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 5th, 2021, 6:12 pm

So I have to give props to my Orioles and starter John Means today. Throws a no-hitter. faces the minimum 27 batters in the game. His only blemish was a wild pitch on a strikeout that allowed the batter to get to first base. He was thrown out trying to steal one or two pitches later. Means was dominant all day - unhittable. Threw a first-pitch strike to 26 out of 27 batters he faced and only got into 3-ball counts twice all day. He has become a staff ace for the O's - so much so that I'm afraid they will trade him in our perpetual "re-build" project. I hope they keep him around and pay him when his rookie contract expires.

I don't think you can get closer to a perfect game while not having a perfect game in the official scorer's book.
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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by dogie » May 5th, 2021, 6:27 pm

The third no-hitter in the young season!
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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Imakeitrain » May 6th, 2021, 9:57 am

That is even closer to a perfect game than when Tabata leaned over the plate on Scherzer... always exciting to see even if Peter Angelos is a butt face


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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by mcaggie1 » May 6th, 2021, 11:21 am

Even as totally dominant Bob Gibson was, he had only one (1) no hitter. What was astounding was, in his 17 year career, he had more complete games than wins. 17 years 255 complete games 251 wins



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 6th, 2021, 12:24 pm

mcaggie1 wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 11:21 am
Even as totally dominant Bob Gibson was, he had only one (1) no hitter. What was astounding was, in his 17 year career, he had more complete games than wins. 17 years 255 complete games 251 wins
That is a baffling stat - more complete games than wins. He could have used some offense behind him, I guess.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by dogie » May 6th, 2021, 12:43 pm

Yossarian wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 12:24 pm
mcaggie1 wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 11:21 am
Even as totally dominant Bob Gibson was, he had only one (1) no hitter. What was astounding was, in his 17 year career, he had more complete games than wins. 17 years 255 complete games 251 wins
That is a baffling stat - more complete games than wins. He could have used some offense behind him, I guess.
This shows how baseball has changed. In the last full season (2019) there were only 45 complete games in all of the major leagues, and only two pitchers had as many as three. It would take five or six seasons to log 255 complete games in all of baseball.

As an example, take the opening day game this season between Miami and Tampa Bay. The two teams combined for eight hits, with the visiting Rays picking up a 1-0 win on a home run in the eighth inning. It took nine pitchers between the two teams to get through that game (more pitchers than base hits).



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 6th, 2021, 1:05 pm

Baseball has for sure changed - the pitching, the approach to hitting/lineups, and the fielding.

Today, most starting pitchers are looked on to get through 5 or 6 innings. It is very rare that a starter goes beyond the 7th inning. They figure it is not worth the risk to keep a pitcher in once he has been through the batting order about two times - the hitters start to figure a pitcher out. After the 5th or 6th inning, the bull pen takes over. Teams are constantly bringing guys up and sending them to the "alternate site" to try and maintain fresh arms in the bullpen and those 4th and 5th starters in the rotation.

As far as hitting - teams are willing to accept more strikeouts in lieu of higher velocities off the bat and extra-base hits. The angle of the bat through the strike zone and the launch angle of the ball off the bat are scrutinized heavily by coaches/managers. Because of this, strikeouts across the league are going way up, and they have been for several years now. It used to be, people would shorten their swing and just try to put a ball in play when batting with two strikes. Now, they continue with the same approach. Earlier this year, I saw a stat that, when extrapolated to 600 plate appearances (which is a typical season for a guy that plays about every game), the average MLB player would strike out about 151 times (at the current league strikeout rate). Prior to 1963, only one person ever had struck out that many times in a season.

For fielding - every team now uses some sort of shift on several players every game. They stack one side of the infield with three defenders while leaving the other side with just one.

It is certainly an evolving game.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 6th, 2021, 4:10 pm

And speaking of the defensive shift, here's one problem with it:

https://www.mlb.com/video/aaron-hicks-s ... apid-plays

a guy shouldn't score on that hit. The defense was all out of whack.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by dogie » May 7th, 2021, 7:58 am

I watched that replay about ten times! The problem is the pitcher was standing there on the mound just observing the whole thing! Uh ... which way did he go?

I have never seen a player score by beating the only available defensive player in a footrace down the third base line. I also don’t think I have ever seen someone score on a completely undefended home plate or from first base on an infield hit without an error!



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by NVAggie » May 7th, 2021, 8:39 am



Umpires have been pretty bad this year.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 7th, 2021, 10:25 am

NVAggie wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 8:39 am


Umpires have been pretty bad this year.
Wow.

The strike zone has been all over the place in games I've watched. The umps are not in mid-season form, for sure.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by SeattleAg » May 7th, 2021, 12:42 pm

To be totally fair, that no hitter should only count as half, seeing as how at least half of the M's current lineup does not involve actual hitters.
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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 7th, 2021, 1:46 pm

SeattleAg wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 12:42 pm
To be totally fair, that no hitter should only count as half, seeing as how at least half of the M's current lineup does not involve actual hitters.
You could probably say that about a lot of teams. My brother texted me the other day that the Yankees lineup on May 1 of this year featured 6 players hitting below .200. They have spent a lot of money for that team.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Bank Shot » May 8th, 2021, 6:16 pm

mcaggie1 wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 11:21 am
Even as totally dominant Bob Gibson was, he had only one (1) no hitter. What was astounding was, in his 17 year career, he had more complete games than wins. 17 years 255 complete games 251 wins
A friend of mine was a teammate of Gibson. Lots of great stories but the one that stands out especially when talking about complete games goes like this. They were playing the Phillies one day and Gibby gave up 4 runs in the first inning. Trots back out the 2nd inning and is getting shelled again. By the time he'd given up 8 or 9, Red Schoedienst who was the manager was on his way out to give the hook. According to my friend as Red approached the first base line Gibson gave him a look...the look that everyone on the team knew what it meant, and Red wheeled around and went back to the dugout. Gibson finished the game and the Cards rallied to win 10-9.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 11th, 2021, 2:57 pm

Another one where "the shift" costs an out and led to a triple:

https://www.mlb.com/video/cedric-mullin ... apid-plays



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by SeattleAg » May 13th, 2021, 1:10 pm

Yossarian wrote:
May 11th, 2021, 2:57 pm
Another one where "the shift" costs an out and led to a triple:

https://www.mlb.com/video/cedric-mullin ... apid-plays
People bang on about outlawing the shift, but I think the better solution is to have players and coaches smart enough to take advantage of it. If you bunt down the 3b line enough, nobody will shift on you anymore, though I suppose that is not manly enough for some.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by OKAggie » May 13th, 2021, 1:35 pm

SeattleAg wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Yossarian wrote:
May 11th, 2021, 2:57 pm
Another one where "the shift" costs an out and led to a triple:

https://www.mlb.com/video/cedric-mullin ... apid-plays
People bang on about outlawing the shift, but I think the better solution is to have players and coaches smart enough to take advantage of it. If you bunt down the 3b line enough, nobody will shift on you anymore, though I suppose that is not manly enough for some.
But that's kind of the point. In a day of the "three true outcomes" approach to hitting (walk, strikeout or home run), players are up there looking for something to barrel up. A bunt single is still only one base, and you've given away the chance to bang one over the fence or, worst case, into a gap. Most modern hitters don't want to give up that chance for a mere bunt single, and given how rarely it actually occurs, most managers must agree. Whether that's manliness or metrics-driven doesn't matter. Plus bunting is becoming a lost art -- hard enough to get a good bunt down against a fastball over the plate, but hitters really don't see much of those any more (especially when the pitcher's defense is in the shift), and trying to get one down against a slider or cutter is next to impossible.


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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 13th, 2021, 1:43 pm

OKAggie wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 1:35 pm
SeattleAg wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Yossarian wrote:
May 11th, 2021, 2:57 pm
Another one where "the shift" costs an out and led to a triple:

https://www.mlb.com/video/cedric-mullin ... apid-plays
People bang on about outlawing the shift, but I think the better solution is to have players and coaches smart enough to take advantage of it. If you bunt down the 3b line enough, nobody will shift on you anymore, though I suppose that is not manly enough for some.
But that's kind of the point. In a day of the "three true outcomes" approach to hitting (walk, strikeout or home run), players are up there looking for something to barrel up. A bunt single is still only one base, and you've given away the chance to bang one over the fence or, worst case, into a gap. Most modern hitters don't want to give up that chance for a mere bunt single, and given how rarely it actually occurs, most managers must agree. Whether that's manliness or metrics-driven doesn't matter. Plus bunting is becoming a lost art -- hard enough to get a good bunt down against a fastball over the plate, but hitters really don't see much of those any more (especially when the pitcher's defense is in the shift), and trying to get one down against a slider or cutter is next to impossible.
That's what I like about watching Cedric Mullins from Baltimore play (I know - my Orioles bias coming through). Mullins, up until this year, was a borderline line MLB player. Most thought he was pretty much a fourth outfielder that would get spot starts platooning when a guy was injured or needed a rest.

Last year he got more playing time due to injuries. He led the league in bunt hits. He plays regular centerfield now and starts pretty much every game. He is hitting over .300 on the year and is not afraid to lay a bunt down when the defense is out of position - even with a two-strike count. He also has 6 home runs on the year. The ability to bunt, especially with the extra innings rule they have now, is a skill worth having for most big league players.



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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by OKAggie » May 13th, 2021, 2:09 pm

Yossarian wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 1:43 pm
OKAggie wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 1:35 pm
SeattleAg wrote:
May 13th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Yossarian wrote:
May 11th, 2021, 2:57 pm
Another one where "the shift" costs an out and led to a triple:

https://www.mlb.com/video/cedric-mullin ... apid-plays
People bang on about outlawing the shift, but I think the better solution is to have players and coaches smart enough to take advantage of it. If you bunt down the 3b line enough, nobody will shift on you anymore, though I suppose that is not manly enough for some.
But that's kind of the point. In a day of the "three true outcomes" approach to hitting (walk, strikeout or home run), players are up there looking for something to barrel up. A bunt single is still only one base, and you've given away the chance to bang one over the fence or, worst case, into a gap. Most modern hitters don't want to give up that chance for a mere bunt single, and given how rarely it actually occurs, most managers must agree. Whether that's manliness or metrics-driven doesn't matter. Plus bunting is becoming a lost art -- hard enough to get a good bunt down against a fastball over the plate, but hitters really don't see much of those any more (especially when the pitcher's defense is in the shift), and trying to get one down against a slider or cutter is next to impossible.
That's what I like about watching Cedric Mullins from Baltimore play (I know - my Orioles bias coming through). Mullins, up until this year, was a borderline line MLB player. Most thought he was pretty much a fourth outfielder that would get spot starts platooning when a guy was injured or needed a rest.

Last year he got more playing time due to injuries. He led the league in bunt hits. He plays regular centerfield now and starts pretty much every game. He is hitting over .300 on the year and is not afraid to lay a bunt down when the defense is out of position - even with a two-strike count. He also has 6 home runs on the year. The ability to bunt, especially with the extra innings rule they have now, is a skill worth having for most big league players.
I'd think so too, and I wish it were true. But today's players, whose careers depend on knowing which skills are most valuable, seem not to agree. Mullins might be the exception that proves the rule -- will be interesting to see if he continues to lead the league in bunt hits as his power stroke develops.


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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Yossarian » May 27th, 2021, 12:38 pm

Another to add to this thread. Just when you think you have seen everything in a big league game, you get a batter caught in a pickle between home and first after hitting a ground ball to third with a runner on second. The pickle allows the runner to score from second and a couple of throwing errors let the batter get all the way to second base:

https://www.mlb.com/video/tyler-anderso ... aez-rnodaw

Just like a little league game, but executed by men that make millions.
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Re: Baseball Talk - No Hitter

Post by Bank Shot » May 27th, 2021, 6:48 pm

Yossarian wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 12:38 pm
Another to add to this thread. Just when you think you have seen everything in a big league game, you get a batter caught in a pickle between home and first after hitting a ground ball to third with a runner on second. The pickle allows the runner to score from second and a couple of throwing errors let the batter get all the way to second base:

https://www.mlb.com/video/tyler-anderso ... aez-rnodaw

Just like a little league game, but executed by men that make millions.
Unreal considering all the 1st baseman had to do is step on the bag for the 3rd out.



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