Really gives you a feel for how broken this whole thing is...the money that is being tossed around is crazy.

Can't go back in time but man we were late to the party in jumping on the NIL train.

Really stinks that putting a great roster together is dependent on fans forking over more money. Many of these fans already fork over money for season tickets, aggies unlimited, traveling to games etc. Now that’s not enough and you have to give more to try and put a top roster together with no guarantees those players or coach stick around or even like your town. Your money is only good enough until someone who has more comes calling

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:06 pm

Can't go back in time but man we were late to the party in jumping on the NIL train.

Doesn't matter. We've still done well. Things will settle and we'll figure it out. I do worry about putting too much pressure on your limited pool of big doners. I don't know if it's possible, but the University needs to set aside funds to support NIL outside of donations (NCAA credits, tv revenue, playoff revenue, etc.).

SpectrumMagic wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:15 pm

Really stinks that putting a great roster together is dependent on fans forking over more money. Many of these fans already fork over money for season tickets, aggies unlimited, traveling to games etc. Now that’s not enough and you have to give more to try and put a top roster together with no guarantees those players or coach stick around or even like your town. Your money is only good enough until someone who has more comes calling

NIL is not the problem. It's the NCAAs open transfer policy. Yes, you could still occasionally loose a player but not your whole roster every fu*king season!

I didn't read the article and apologize if this was covered.

Are donations to a private NIL collective tax deductible in the same way donations to a university are? Are the collectives set up as 501(c)(3)'s?

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:06 pm

Can't go back in time but man we were late to the party in jumping on the NIL train.

A year+ late.

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:20 pm

SpectrumMagic wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:15 pm

Really stinks that putting a great roster together is dependent on fans forking over more money. Many of these fans already fork over money for season tickets, aggies unlimited, traveling to games etc. Now that’s not enough and you have to give more to try and put a top roster together with no guarantees those players or coach stick around or even like your town. Your money is only good enough until someone who has more comes calling

NIL is not the problem. It's the NCAAs open transfer policy. Yes, you could still occasionally loose a player but not your whole roster every fu*king season!

How can you have one without the other? If you are going to have an open market to pay students to play a sport, how can you deny them the opportunity to work in that open market by limiting their ability to change jobs? Is in-American.

That article won't help with fundraising efforts. Pretty bleak view of where things stand.

The transfer portal just shouldn't exist honestly. there used to be a rule that decentivized athletes from transfering. players that transfer should have to sit out a year unless they are a graduate transfer. That will make coaches want to stay at Utah State. If a great roster of players couldn't transfer, then a coach wouldn't have as much reason to leave to an inferior program. This would also make everyone more willing to donate to an NIL fund because we would be paying the players, and the players would pay us back by developing and become great players to help our team win. It sucks wang.

mason should leave to a school with great coaches to develop him, get a ginormous paycheck, then come back to USU even better and help us win. I always imagined him breaking records and being up there with jaycee and sam in scoring and have a legacy like they did. It makes me freaking sad that he might go somewhere else and we won't get to see what could've been.

SpectrumMagic wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:15 pm

Really stinks that putting a great roster together is dependent on fans forking over more money. Many of these fans already fork over money for season tickets, aggies unlimited, traveling to games etc. Now that’s not enough and you have to give more to try and put a top roster together with no guarantees those players or coach stick around or even like your town. Your money is only good enough until someone who has more comes calling

Imagine (and I may have used this analogy before, sorry) you just bought good tickets to the Jazz or any of your favorite pro sports teams and then they came to you and said, thanks for buying the tickets, now we need a donation to keep our players on the team. It's not sustainable it feels like.

This is all so discouraging and feels like another sign of our nation being in late stage capitalism...requiring six figure payments to 19 year olds to play 30 basketball games in order to compete against the egos of other multimillionaire donors for bragging rights. Count me out.

kofdog wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:53 pm

SpectrumMagic wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:15 pm

Really stinks that putting a great roster together is dependent on fans forking over more money. Many of these fans already fork over money for season tickets, aggies unlimited, traveling to games etc. Now that’s not enough and you have to give more to try and put a top roster together with no guarantees those players or coach stick around or even like your town. Your money is only good enough until someone who has more comes calling

Imagine (and I may have used this analogy before, sorry) you just bought good tickets to the Jazz or any of your favorite pro sports teams and then they came to you and said, thanks for buying the tickets, now we need a donation to keep our players on the team. It's not sustainable it feels like.

At some point it is going to come crashing down. I don't mind supporting NIL but when players want to transfer in and out each year it makes it so less people are going to want to contribute as there is no bond or loyalty from the players. I would feel way more inclined to donate when players are loyal to a school versus just shopping around every off season to the highest bidder. I love seeing players start out as freshman and watch them develop and graduate but those instances are going to be limited going forward.

At some point, we just need to back out and stop caring. This is not a sustainable system.

aggies22 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:24 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:06 pm

Can't go back in time but man we were late to the party in jumping on the NIL train.

A year+ late.

I am old enough to remember when the AD actively discouraged any NIL donations......

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

^^^^
It's not. People aren't going to pay $$$$ for season tickets and then another chunk of $$$$ for NIL just to see your "Great(est)" player bail the next year to U$C, A$U, 'Bama, etc. for a high six figure (or more) salary. According to this, we would need at least 100k per year for our staring five BB players 100k. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... r-BB1kCD8e

This isn't sustainable. People just aren't going to pay 18-22 year old kids a salary that is above what they make. https://www.statista.com/statistics/203 ... in-the-us/

NIL is also to the point that kids are making more than minor league players (not even counting the value of their D1 scholarship).

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mino ... ases-more/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/ ... utType=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... op-25/amp/

We are indeed at the end of an era.

So how does one benefit by donating NIL money. If I don't own a business how can I benefit. Am I able to print tshirts with Great's face on in and sell them? Aren't I paying for a name image and likeness.

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

THIS!!!

This "system" is absolutely mindbogglingly crazy.

I hate to be "that guy", but screw this.

SaintAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:52 pm

I hate to be "that guy", but screw this.

see ya.

That article highlights an interesting tension that I hadn't considered for the people running the collective -- they of course want to run out and offer Mason and Isaac a bunch of money to stay, but they don't want to do that only for the new coach to come in with different ideas for the roster.

Really highlights that a decision on the new coach needed to be made yesterday. I really don't understand why we didn't have an MOU ready to go for our guy and someone already in place. Washington was sure ready and we had plenty of notice. It was delusional to think we could keep him and a contingency plan should have been in place with how long ago this leaked.

But it fits with us being a year+ late on getting the NIL adequately funded.

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:59 pm

SaintAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:52 pm

I hate to be "that guy", but screw this.

see ya.

See me where?

Edit: If you think me saying screw the new NIL system makes me a disposal fan or whatever your implying, I don't think your a very agreeable person.

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

All of that requires congressional action and official separation of the money sports from the schools that want to go down this path. Until then there is no way to begin to curb the chaos let alone have a semblance of a real sports league.

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:15 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 12:06 pm

Can't go back in time but man we were late to the party in jumping on the NIL train.

Doesn't matter. We've still done well. Things will settle and we'll figure it out. I do worry about putting too much pressure on your limited pool of big doners. I don't know if it's possible, but the University needs to set aside funds to support NIL outside of donations (NCAA credits, tv revenue, playoff revenue, etc.).

Except for its not allowed by the NCAA and would be further stayed by a Title 9 lawsuit. The IRS would look down on it a bit too unless it was classified as wages. Maybe I'm missing something.

hickaggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

All of that requires congressional action and official separation of the money sports from the schools that want to go down this path. Until then there is no way to begin to curb the chaos let alone have a semblance of a real sports league.

1. Why do you think having the athletes sign contracts to stay and play would require any action from anyone besides the athlete and the collective (or an independent NIL payer)? The athletes are all 18 or older, can enter into binding contracts, and are getting valuable consideration for their services.

2. Congress should stay the hell out of this. It's not a matter of federal concern.

OKAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:58 pm

hickaggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

All of that requires congressional action and official separation of the money sports from the schools that want to go down this path. Until then there is no way to begin to curb the chaos let alone have a semblance of a real sports league.

1. Why do you think having the athletes sign contracts to stay and play would require any action from anyone besides the athlete and the collective (or an independent NIL payer)? The athletes are all 18 or older, can enter into binding contracts, and are getting valuable consideration for their services.

2. Congress should stay the hell out of this. It's not a matter of federal concern.

But it already is. Was it not congress(judges) that allowed players to basically transfer at will, and then the NCAA "followed" by placing it into their "rules"?

Does the collective have 501(c)(3) status?

MrBiggle wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 3:09 pm

OKAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:58 pm

hickaggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

All of that requires congressional action and official separation of the money sports from the schools that want to go down this path. Until then there is no way to begin to curb the chaos let alone have a semblance of a real sports league.

1. Why do you think having the athletes sign contracts to stay and play would require any action from anyone besides the athlete and the collective (or an independent NIL payer)? The athletes are all 18 or older, can enter into binding contracts, and are getting valuable consideration for their services.

2. Congress should stay the hell out of this. It's not a matter of federal concern.

But it already is. Was it not congress(judges) that allowed players to basically transfer at will, and then the NCAA "followed" by placing it into their "rules"?

Judges are not Congress. The cases that opened these issues up were civil cases against the NCAA - there was no federal action or agency involved. NCAA has asked for federal legislation, but IMO they're not going to get it, and shouldn't.

OKAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 3:21 pm

MrBiggle wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 3:09 pm

OKAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:58 pm

hickaggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

All of that requires congressional action and official separation of the money sports from the schools that want to go down this path. Until then there is no way to begin to curb the chaos let alone have a semblance of a real sports league.

1. Why do you think having the athletes sign contracts to stay and play would require any action from anyone besides the athlete and the collective (or an independent NIL payer)? The athletes are all 18 or older, can enter into binding contracts, and are getting valuable consideration for their services.

2. Congress should stay the hell out of this. It's not a matter of federal concern.

But it already is. Was it not congress(judges) that allowed players to basically transfer at will, and then the NCAA "followed" by placing it into their "rules"?

Judges are not Congress. The cases that opened these issues up were civil cases against the NCAA - there was no federal action or agency involved. NCAA has asked for federal legislation, but IMO they're not going to get it, and shouldn't.

I disagree with your last statement. NCAA should get Federal regulation on this. In the beginning I was against the NCAA. I thought student athletes should get money for their name, image, and likeness but I didn't imagine it to become the mess that it is now. If it doesn't get curbed then basically it's semi professional sports. It's no longer college anymore except for group of five, FCS, D2, and D3 level. The tampering and the fact that donors are now recruiting active rosters from other teams before the season's even over is not what I wanted NIL to be.

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:07 pm

That article highlights an interesting tension that I hadn't considered for the people running the collective -- they of course want to run out and offer Mason and Isaac a bunch of money to stay, but they don't want to do that only for the new coach to come in with different ideas for the roster.

Really highlights that a decision on the new coach needed to be made yesterday. I really don't understand why we didn't have an MOU ready to go for our guy and someone already in place. Washington was sure ready and we had plenty of notice. It was delusional to think we could keep him and a contingency plan should have been in place with how long ago this leaked.

But it fits with us being a year+ late on getting the NIL adequately funded.

This is the point I have tried to bring up a few times about the whole pay-for-play (masquerading around as NIL) setup. People keep demanding that the University or the coaching staff make sure they have the funds to get and maintain players but they have nothing to do with it.

These collectives being funded and operated by boosters create a crazy dynamic between the school, the coaching staff, the players, and the fans/boosters and this is a perfect example of it. I don't envy the position Eric Laub is in. As a fan he wants to keep players and help bring in new players but he also isn't the one in control of assembling a roster. The coach wants to assemble the best roster he can but is not in control of the funds available to be offered. The school and AD sit by the wayside and are supposed to have NIL deals reported to them and can only help point potential recruits in the right direction but can't make any promises or have any control over any NIL funds. The fans want the best for their school so they contribute to the collectives in hopes that they will get some return on their investment but they also have no guarantee that the funds they donate will make any difference because players can freely move on whenever they want without repercussions.

Meanwhile, there are practically zero rules or follow up about whether student athletes are actually fulfilling NIL obligations and no way to keep them from taking payment and moving on to the next place before beginning the whole song and dance all over again. The whole thing is a mess to say the least.

I don't think it changes unless some strict rules get put back in place to prevent players from transferring without penalty and/or players are treated as employees or at least sign contracts for the money they are awarded. If contracts were in place, they would be treated no different than coaches who are free to move on if they wish but must consider buy-outs. NIL funds could then be tied to multi-year contracts for student athletes with the stipulation that there are diminishing buy-outs spread over the length of the contract. It wouldn't stop all transfers from happening or keep bigger schools from coming to get mid-major stars but if it were combined with a return of the 1-year sit out transfer rule it would at least give them pause. Buy-outs would be lowest further into a player's eligibility but if a Jr. or Sr. has to sit out a year in addition to having to pay what's left on his contract, it would prevent what we are seeing now from happening.

One could argue the unlimited transfers will have the most impact or at least as much impact as NIL does. It was dumb a player had to sit out a year before transferring. I did think that the 1 time transfer was fairly reasonable unless the player was graduated but now unless they change it back is just unlimited transfers which i think hurts the game. TBH USU has benefited from the transfer rules but going to unlimited transfers is not the way to go IMO.

OKAggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:58 pm

hickaggie wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 2:20 pm

brian5562 wrote: ↑

March 27th, 2024, 1:14 pm

Contracts are going to be needed. If the NIL money being given to an athlete is tied to a years, games played, etc. If they are being treated as a professional athlete then they shouldn't be able to hit free agency every year unless they are signing 1 year agreements.

All of that requires congressional action and official separation of the money sports from the schools that want to go down this path. Until then there is no way to begin to curb the chaos let alone have a semblance of a real sports league.

1. Why do you think having the athletes sign contracts to stay and play would require any action from anyone besides the athlete and the collective (or an independent NIL payer)? The athletes are all 18 or older, can enter into binding contracts, and are getting valuable consideration for their services.

2. Congress should stay the hell out of this. It's not a matter of federal concern.

I don't think you understand what I am saying. Any attempt to resolve the wild west system right now would require anti-trust action with Congress. Any attempt to pay players from the school's end is a title 9 issue that is of federal concern (ie you can't pay men sports more than women). It is federal laws and interpretation of federal constitutional rights that created NIL.

As far as independent NIL contracts, good luck...lol. Why would any recruit agree to an NIL deal that restricted their rights contractually when the school down the road won't. Once again that doesn't happen in pro sports leagues because they can collude on contract terms and restrictions...and there we are right back to anti-trust law.