Evidence of a winning team

SectionBAggie · Post by **SectionBAggie** » February 3rd, 2023, 11:17 am

This pops up when things are going well in Logan, even though this team is hardly the best evidence of the claim.

From the Lobo message board:

Let’s not deceive ourselves that USU doesn’t have the same advantage that other Utah schools have.

Namely, having older student athletes due to them being able to go on missions. Pitino described USU as being an older team and that this is what all teams are trying to do with the transfer portal.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » February 3rd, 2023, 11:32 am

SectionBAggie wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 11:17 am
This pops up when things are going well in Logan, even though this team is hardly the best evidence of the claim.

From the Lobo message board:

Let’s not deceive ourselves that USU doesn’t have the same advantage that other Utah schools have.

Namely, having older student athletes due to them being able to go on missions. Pitino described USU as being an older team and that this is what all teams are trying to do with the transfer portal.

We have 2 players in our rotation (Ashworth and Dorius) who are returned missionaries. I agree we do have an older team with Funk, RJER and AKin all being in their 6th year of eligibility. Add in Baristow (4th year) and Shulga (3rd year) and we do we have an experienced team. I think age is a little overblown as overall talent will win out most times but the Aggies do have a veteran team.

It is not like the New Mexico rotation is full of freshman. Their starting lineup is Mashburn (JR.), House (Sr.), Udeze (Gr), Allick (Sr.) and Jenkins (Jr.) They have a very experienced team.

BiocatAg · Post by **BiocatAg** » February 3rd, 2023, 11:33 am

As far as I know, Ashworth and Dorius are the only two RMs that played against UNM.

If it's such an advantage, they should try and convince Mashburn and House to go on missions...

tipitup · Post by **tipitup** » February 3rd, 2023, 11:34 am

is that just an issue with mid majors? when a (insert any big name team) brings in five freshman and they start and have a great season, do they get to use the age card when they loose??

FL350Aggie · Post by **FL350Aggie** » February 3rd, 2023, 11:38 am

Never understood this argument, even though it’s not a valid argument with this USU team. Not like Ashworth and Dorius were working out for two straight years. I’m guessing it takes almost a full year to get back into form for high level athletes that go on missions. I really don’t see any competitive advantage gained, didn’t Sam’s age really hurt him in the draft?

LarryTheAggie · Post by **LarryTheAggie** » February 3rd, 2023, 11:42 am

Yeah, our older point guard that is 6 foot nothing is really dominating the other guys with his more mature body.

Out center that was a walk on and now averaging 5 points is really dominating the competition. (Actually, I think being older is probably helping Dorius, but he is not dominating games because of it).

And those two other dudes that are redshirting this year are really helping us win a lot of games.

Post by **treesap32** » February 3rd, 2023, 12:01 pm

Yes, the classic Missionary excuse. I love it. You know you're doing something right when opponents fall back on this tried and true excuse.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » February 3rd, 2023, 12:10 pm

I read through the thread and some of the posters were upset about missionaries not losing eligibility by going on a mission. Some posters were saying they should have to use up at least their red shirt year by going on a mission because it is not fair they can leave for 2 years and not use any of their 4 years of eligibility. If the missionary program is so great nobody is stopping these programs from using it. No one is forced to start college right after high school so taking away a missionaries eligibility when they are not even participating is ludicrous. Last time i checked teams were not banging down doors to get Ashworth and Dorius to come play for certain programs.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » February 3rd, 2023, 12:21 pm

Agree with my friend from Farmington, nobody is blocking UNM from recruiting Utah...

cdaAg · Post by **cdaAg** » February 3rd, 2023, 12:45 pm

Imagine the world if a team like UNM had a shot at a guy like Sean Bairstow. If they could land guys like that, imagine the heights they'd achieve.

FL350Aggie · Post by **FL350Aggie** » February 3rd, 2023, 1:00 pm

cdaAg wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 12:45 pm
Imagine the world if a team like UNM had a shot at a guy like Sean Bairstow. If they could land guys like that, imagine the heights they'd achieve.

Hahah mic drop!

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » February 3rd, 2023, 1:04 pm

I don't know why every school in the country doesn't ask their high school recruits to do two years in the Peace Corps or on religious missions and only play basketball once a week for two hours on a half court with a lot of very bad players. Then that way, they will be stronger and ready to play when they show up on campus.

Post by **GeoAg** » February 3rd, 2023, 1:28 pm

Missions are an advantage in football, not in basketball

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » February 3rd, 2023, 1:30 pm

GeoAg wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 1:28 pm
Missions are an advantage in football, not in basketball

Because basketball players are godless anyway. I see where you're going with this, and I agree. Football players are always singing their praises to heaven, and I rarely see that with basketball players. Couldn't agree more.

918AGG · Post by **918AGG** » February 3rd, 2023, 1:49 pm

I know this guy who's good at basketball, went on a mission, and has burned zero years of eligibility; he's 80.

The wisdom, maturity, and basketball savvy that this guy has is absolutely unparalleled in NCAA basketball. He should be a HUGE advantage.

Agezzz · Post by **Agezzz** » February 3rd, 2023, 6:42 pm

Funny how we feel BYU has an advantage with RMs...but we don't. Just sayin' I think it is an advantage with maturity.

Post by **ProvoAggie** » February 3rd, 2023, 8:43 pm

Agezzz wrote:Funny how we feel BYU has an advantage with RMs...but we don't. Just sayin' I think it is an advantage with maturity.

Do we feel like they have an advantage with RM's? I've never seen it as an advantage for anyone. Sure you get a bit of maturity but you also get a kid that spends 2 years without property training, practice and typically a poor diet.

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SLB · Post by **SLB** » February 3rd, 2023, 9:01 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 11:32 am

SectionBAggie wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 11:17 am
This pops up when things are going well in Logan, even though this team is hardly the best evidence of the claim.

From the Lobo message board:

Let’s not deceive ourselves that USU doesn’t have the same advantage that other Utah schools have.

Namely, having older student athletes due to them being able to go on missions. Pitino described USU as being an older team and that this is what all teams are trying to do with the transfer portal.
We have 2 players in our rotation (Ashworth and Dorius) who are returned missionaries. I agree we do have an older team with Funk, RJER and AKin all being in their 6th year of eligibility. Add in Baristow (4th year) and Shulga (3rd year) and we do we have an experienced team. I think age is a little overblown as overall talent will win out most times but the Aggies do have a veteran team.

It is not like the New Mexico rotation is full of freshman. Their starting lineup is Mashburn (JR.), House (Sr.), Udeze (Gr), Allick (Sr.) and Jenkins (Jr.) They have a very experienced team.

Shulga and Zee are on the younger side. Shulga is a Junior but has the age of a sophomore.
Rylan Jones, Ashworth, Bairstow are the same age as 4th senior year player.
Dorius, RJER, and Akin are the ones on the older side, and RJER is a role player.

cval · Post by **cval** » February 3rd, 2023, 10:13 pm

Funk….

918AGG · Post by **918AGG** » February 4th, 2023, 11:13 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 6:42 pm
Funny how we feel BYU has an advantage with RMs...but we don't. Just sayin' I think it is an advantage with maturity.

Advantage at what? They freaking suck at basketball.

Basketball “maturity” from serving a mission is a TV talking-head talking point and absolutely nothing more.

If this was actually something that was real, elite teams like UofH or Kansas would probably have one RM on their team at some point.

AgTime · Post by **AgTime** » February 5th, 2023, 10:31 am

As far as I can tell, there’s nothing preventing other schools from recruiting more “mature” players. If it’s an advantage, go for it.

Agezzz · Post by **Agezzz** » February 6th, 2023, 12:38 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
February 4th, 2023, 11:13 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 6:42 pm
Funny how we feel BYU has an advantage with RMs...but we don't. Just sayin' I think it is an advantage with maturity.
Advantage at what? They freaking suck at basketball.

Basketball “maturity” from serving a mission is a TV talking-head talking point and absolutely nothing more.

If this was actually something that was real, elite teams like UofH or Kansas would probably have one RM on their team at some point.

Disagree. I have never talked to a kid who went on a mission, who did not feel it helped them mature, become a better person, improved their organizational skills, helped them learn to get along with others, respect people from different cultures, respect authority, take orders from authority, learn to study, be a self starter and on and on. Seems like that would certainly help playing a sport. Maybe all those skills really don't happen. I've just heard it hundreds of times. And, the top teams get all the players they need, regardless of age or maturity. I believe a RM married kid like Ashworth, translates to needs USU requires more than Kansas. JMHO It's funny, but I can tell most of the people who disagree with me are most likely RMs. Perception is interesting. This is not a negative statement on RMs...it's a positive statement. Go Aggies!

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » February 6th, 2023, 12:51 pm

cdaAg wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 12:45 pm
Imagine the world if a team like UNM had a shot at a guy like Sean Bairstow. If they could land guys like that, imagine the heights they'd achieve.

I don't think I want to live in that world. Sounds a bit like the Book of Revelations.

918AGG · Post by **918AGG** » February 6th, 2023, 4:00 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 12:38 pm

918AGG wrote: ↑
February 4th, 2023, 11:13 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 6:42 pm
Funny how we feel BYU has an advantage with RMs...but we don't. Just sayin' I think it is an advantage with maturity.
Advantage at what? They freaking suck at basketball.

Basketball “maturity” from serving a mission is a TV talking-head talking point and absolutely nothing more.

If this was actually something that was real, elite teams like UofH or Kansas would probably have one RM on their team at some point.
Disagree. I have never talked to a kid who went on a mission, who did not feel it helped them mature, become a better person, improved their organizational skills, helped them learn to get along with others, respect people from different cultures, respect authority, take orders from authority, learn to study, be a self starter and on and on. Seems like that would certainly help playing a sport. Maybe all those skills really don't happen. I've just heard it hundreds of times. And, the top teams get all the players they need, regardless of age or maturity. I believe a RM married kid like Ashworth, translates to needs USU requires more than Kansas. JMHO It's funny, but I can tell most of the people who disagree with me are most likely RMs. Perception is interesting. This is not a negative statement on RMs...it's a positive statement. Go Aggies!

Feel free to disagree. I think that given the exact same amounts of athleticism, basketball IQ, basketball fundamentals, etc. between two people, a mission is probably minorly helpful with basketball maturity - in general. This probably translates in a positive way but only in very minor, mostly intangible ways on the basketball court.

But this is the real world where athleticism, basketball IQ, and fundamental basketball skills vary pretty substantially from person to person, and an - even sizable - increase in personal maturity only goes so far on the basketball court.

Think of it this way: how many people expressed the desire that Neemias Queta had gone on a mission or served in the military or the peace corps? (understanding, obviously, that he's not a member of the church and not a Mission-bound kid). Answer: zero, because it's complete nonsense and he'd - at best - get jello legs, burn two years of peak athleticism and come home much more personally mature, which doesn't really help anybody on the basketball court (other than with his own personal growth).

tipitup · Post by **tipitup** » February 6th, 2023, 4:35 pm

i think since we are talking about "personally mature" and basketball. I played ball in high school but was not very aggressive. after my mission i did have a different mindset on what i could or couldn't do and for me it did transfer to the way i played ball. I don't know if it mattered or not, but i played a lot better after my mission than i ever did before.

Agezzz · Post by **Agezzz** » February 6th, 2023, 6:52 pm

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 4:35 pm
i think since we are talking about "personally mature" and basketball. I played ball in high school but was not very aggressive. after my mission i did have a different mindset on what i could or couldn't do and for me it did transfer to the way i played ball. I don't know if it mattered or not, but i played a lot better after my mission than i ever did before.

I just happen to think it helps a great deal more than hurts. Did it help your jumping ability??

MrBiggle · Post by **MrBiggle** » February 6th, 2023, 8:09 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 6:52 pm

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 4:35 pm
i think since we are talking about "personally mature" and basketball. I played ball in high school but was not very aggressive. after my mission i did have a different mindset on what i could or couldn't do and for me it did transfer to the way i played ball. I don't know if it mattered or not, but i played a lot better after my mission than i ever did before.
I just happen to think it helps a great deal more than hurts. Did it help your jumping ability??

I thought it was marriage that affects how high one can jump.

SSaggie · Post by **SSaggie** » February 6th, 2023, 9:16 pm

Missions can give some late bloomers a chance to grow or put some meat on their bones.
For example, Steph Curry had a growth spurt while he was mission aged.

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Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » February 6th, 2023, 9:30 pm

There is no rule against UNM recruiting lds athletes.

With covid years that benefit is non existent. Not only can guys be in a program 6 years, they can lift and eat with the team as opposed to being malnourished in Bolivia or overfed stateside- where the best exercise you can get if you’re lucky is some bowflex a member donated 10 years ago- and you can do it at 630….

It’s a very silly accusation far removed from any knowledge about athletics or missions

usufan1 · Post by **usufan1** » February 7th, 2023, 12:15 am

Imakeitrain wrote:There is no rule against UNM recruiting lds athletes.

With covid years that benefit is non existent. Not only can guys be in a program 6 years, they can lift and eat with the team as opposed to being malnourished in Bolivia or overfed stateside- where the best exercise you can get if you’re lucky is some bowflex a member donated 10 years ago- and you can do it at 630….

It’s a very silly accusation far removed from any knowledge about athletics or missions

Yes, this 100%!! Every time I hear a coach talking about the advantage USU has with their "older" players, they act like it's only allowed in Utah.

Go ahead and recruit the lds missionaries if it's such an advantage, otherwise quit using it as an excuse.

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tipitup · Post by **tipitup** » February 8th, 2023, 8:36 am

MrBiggle wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 8:09 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 6:52 pm

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 4:35 pm
i think since we are talking about "personally mature" and basketball. I played ball in high school but was not very aggressive. after my mission i did have a different mindset on what i could or couldn't do and for me it did transfer to the way i played ball. I don't know if it mattered or not, but i played a lot better after my mission than i ever did before.
I just happen to think it helps a great deal more than hurts. Did it help your jumping ability??
I thought it was marriage that affects how high one can jump.

i could dunk it at 6' better after my mission and marriage, so maybe!!!

nswaggie · Post by **nswaggie** » February 8th, 2023, 8:41 am

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 8th, 2023, 8:36 am

MrBiggle wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 8:09 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 6:52 pm

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 4:35 pm
i think since we are talking about "personally mature" and basketball. I played ball in high school but was not very aggressive. after my mission i did have a different mindset on what i could or couldn't do and for me it did transfer to the way i played ball. I don't know if it mattered or not, but i played a lot better after my mission than i ever did before.
I just happen to think it helps a great deal more than hurts. Did it help your jumping ability??
I thought it was marriage that affects how high one can jump.
i could dunk it at 6' better after my mission and marriage, so maybe!!!

I can do 360 dunks on a 6’ rim

Agezzz · Post by **Agezzz** » February 8th, 2023, 8:42 am

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 8th, 2023, 8:36 am

MrBiggle wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 8:09 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 6:52 pm

tipitup wrote: ↑
February 6th, 2023, 4:35 pm
i think since we are talking about "personally mature" and basketball. I played ball in high school but was not very aggressive. after my mission i did have a different mindset on what i could or couldn't do and for me it did transfer to the way i played ball. I don't know if it mattered or not, but i played a lot better after my mission than i ever did before.
I just happen to think it helps a great deal more than hurts. Did it help your jumping ability??
I thought it was marriage that affects how high one can jump.
i could dunk it at 6' better after my mission and marriage, so maybe!!!

Finally, a comment in total agreement with my perception. "Honesty is always the best policy".

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » February 8th, 2023, 8:43 am

Man I miss @troutputz he could have given quite a sermon on jumping ability and marriage.

freakboy · Post by **freakboy** » February 9th, 2023, 6:49 am

918AGG wrote: ↑
February 4th, 2023, 11:13 pm

Agezzz wrote: ↑
February 3rd, 2023, 6:42 pm
Funny how we feel BYU has an advantage with RMs...but we don't. Just sayin' I think it is an advantage with maturity.
Advantage at what? They freaking suck at basketball.

Basketball “maturity” from serving a mission is a TV talking-head talking point and absolutely nothing more.

If this was actually something that was real, elite teams like UofH or Kansas would probably have one RM on their team at some point.

Advantage at recruiting our players while they are in the MTC

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