The beginning of the end for CBB

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The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Roy McAvoy » April 28th, 2022, 9:22 pm

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NAR - NIL for this Miami player isn’t enough

Post by utaggies » April 28th, 2022, 9:30 pm

This will be the end of college athletics as we know it. My only desire is that any AD who uses the words “student-athlete” be drawn and quartered. From ESPN (sorry I couldn’t find a link, only the article from my “News”:

“Miami Hurricanes guard Isaiah Wong will enter the transfer portal on Friday if his name, image and likeness (NIL) compensation isn't increased, his NIL agent, Adam Papas of NEXT Sports Agency, told ESPN on Thursday.

"If Isaiah and his family don't feel that the NIL number meets their expectations they will be entering the transfer portal tomorrow, while maintaining his eligibility in the NBA draft and going through the draft process," Papas said.
Wong, a two-time all-ACC player and the second-leading scorer on a Hurricanes team that reached the NCAA tournament's Elite Eight, declared for the draft earlier this week.

"Isaiah would like to stay at Miami," Papas said. "He had a great season leading his team to the Elite Eight. He has seen what incoming Miami Hurricane basketball players are getting in NIL and would like his NIL to reflect that he was a team leader of an Elite Eight team."

Florida state law doesn't permit schools to be involved in NIL deals, and according to a Miami spokesperson, due to state law, it doesn't discuss or comment on NIL-specific deals. Papas confirmed to ESPN he isn't speaking directly with the Hurricanes' coaching staff.

Papas says he recently negotiated an NIL deal for Kansas State transfer Nijel Pack that included $800,000 over two years plus a car. Pack was considered the No. 1 player in the transfer portal before committing to Miami. The deal was funded by billionaire John Ruiz, who has been at the forefront of the NIL movement, orchestrating deals across several sports. Among them are deals with women's college basketball twins Haley and Hanna Cavinder -- who transferred from Fresno State to Miami -- and UCLA football transfers Caleb Johnson and Mitchell Agude.

Ruiz has 111 deals signed or pending with Hurricanes athletes to promote his companies, LifeWallet and Cigarette Racing, according to a report in the Miami Herald on Wednesday.

"It's a unique situation just completing Nijel Pack's deal with Miami," said Papas, who also represents Miami power forward Jordan Walker and South Dakota State star Baylor Scheierman for their NIL deals. "Understanding what John Ruiz is trying to do with the NIL space and the city of Miami, we feel the value of Isaiah Wong should meet or exceed the value of an incoming transfer."

Ruiz confirmed his knowledge of Wong's dissatisfaction with his NIL compensation.

"Isaiah is under contract," Ruiz said in a text message to ESPN. "He has been treated by LifeWallet exceptionally well. If that is what he decides, I wish him well, however, I DO NOT renegotiate! I cannot disclose the amount, but what I can say is that he was treated very fairly."

Ruiz is at the forefront of a frenetic moment in the world of college sports, as the lack of clear NCAA guidelines has created a significant amount of uncertainty regarding what is permitted in the NIL space and what isn't. Question marks remain around what this new, unregulated market can sustain among schools that have huge fan bases and rich alumni compared with those that don't, or with those that have yet to dip their toes in the NIL waters.”

*********

A couple of things — the player is under contract with an NIL agent? The Miami billionaire booster has negotiated many NIL deals across many sports. A Kansas State player who transferred to Miami is getting $400,000/year AND a car as an NIL package? The player who wants his NIL contract renegotiated is threatening to leave Miami. But his NIL is with the billionaire and not the school which, under state law, can’t be involved in NIl deals. If the player leaves Miami would that terminate his NIL?

We are living in crazy college sports times.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by aggiesdidwhat » April 28th, 2022, 9:45 pm

Roy McAvoy wrote:
April 28th, 2022, 9:22 pm
This is really sad, and really is going to be the end. Money..... Always money. None of these top athletes really go to school anyway. Just make a farm league, be some with it. So sad :(
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Aggie19 » April 28th, 2022, 9:45 pm

I'm completely shocked and dismayed that this seemingly unthinkable result has blindsided everyone. Never in my wildest... :sarcasm:
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Re: NAR - NIL for this Miami player isn’t enough

Post by aggiesdidwhat » April 28th, 2022, 9:46 pm

Sadly, it will be the end real soon.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by aggiesdidwhat » April 28th, 2022, 9:51 pm

Aggie19 wrote:
April 28th, 2022, 9:45 pm
I'm completely shocked and dismayed that this seemingly unthinkable result has blindsided everyone. Never in my wildest... :sarcasm:
Who said it was shocking??? It's just really sad.



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Re: NAR - NIL for this Miami player isn’t enough

Post by slcagg » April 28th, 2022, 9:52 pm

Is their any correlation to great college coaches retiring and the start of the nil?




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Re: NAR - NIL for this Miami player isn’t enough

Post by Aggie84025 » April 28th, 2022, 9:59 pm

I am all for the players getting some NIL deals, but demanding they get met or he is leaving is ridiculous. It is starting the beginning of the end of college athletics.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Aggie19 » April 28th, 2022, 10:00 pm

aggiesdidwhat wrote:
April 28th, 2022, 9:51 pm
Aggie19 wrote:
April 28th, 2022, 9:45 pm
I'm completely shocked and dismayed that this seemingly unthinkable result has blindsided everyone. Never in my wildest... :sarcasm:
Who said it was shocking??? It's just really sad.
Comment wasn't directed at you or your comment, it was independent, thus why is not quoting you. So you may think it's sad, I agree and like your post, I chose to respond with a sarcastic comment to convey my sadness with it all.

So anywho...
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by JonnyCienPesos » April 28th, 2022, 10:05 pm

The only thing changing is the ability to talk about it.


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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » April 28th, 2022, 10:15 pm

Not sad, not gonna kill anything. Who cares if the kid wants more money? He plays for Miami, if they can't get together some NIL money to keep him, then they deserve to have him go somewhere else.

I have on many occasions thought that CBB might end up like the MLB where money dominates. However, I think in college it won't happen to the same degree. There are too many teams, the money is more widely distributed, and the players' window of a college career is so short. Let them shop themselves out. The NIL doesn't change the pecking order at all, nor does it make USU less competitive.

Now that bill in California... That would wreck most athletic departments.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by TrueAG » April 28th, 2022, 11:16 pm

It's gonna be a mess, a lot of scammers will make a lot of promises and the players won't get what was promised. Who is reading over the contracts. When the team down souths NIL sponsor goes down because it's run by fraudsters some one will be holding the bag. This will be a (I can't express myself without swearing) show..
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by trevordude » April 28th, 2022, 11:21 pm

It's an extension of an AAU circuit. Promises of better teams, better coaches, better exposure, but it's mostly a wash if you're not top talent


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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » April 29th, 2022, 11:43 am

Based on how we see smaller schools performing I think all this high end drama with the blue chippers actually helps smaller schools. It allows schools that have unheralded players to stay together for multiple years and beat the blue bloods through execution and not talent. Yes, the blue bloods will always win the championship, but mid majors just want to make sure they get to the dance and perform well there.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by SeattleAg » April 29th, 2022, 1:06 pm

Different sport, same thing. https://www.theringer.com/2022/4/26/230 ... ree-market
As the Supreme Court said, "The NCAA business model would be illegal in almost any other circumstance." College sports should probably never have been a thing, like they aren't anywhere else in the world. Send the top kids to the pro developmental leagues and let all the schools run mid-majorish programs. It's probably the ultimate solution. (See: European football, where they buy and sell teenagers' contracts for millions.)
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by 918AGG » April 29th, 2022, 3:46 pm

So let the talent find its level. I don't see how this ruins anything. Finally, NCAA athletes are allowed to act like rational actors in a dynamic economic environment. Good for them.

This has always been and will always be a story of the haves and have nots. I don't see Zee Hamoda pulling the same thing (but if he can and does, good for him).

I've done this exact same thing within my economic environment twice now: "pay me more or I'm leaving." Both environments told me to pound sand. I now make more than I ever have and my employer values me more (both in pay and workplace freedom) than anybody else ever has. Again, good for them (and me).


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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by utaggies » April 29th, 2022, 6:16 pm

918AGG wrote:
April 29th, 2022, 3:46 pm
So let the talent find its level. I don't see how this ruins anything. Finally, NCAA athletes are allowed to act like rational actors in a dynamic economic environment. Good for them.

This has always been and will always be a story of the haves and have nots. I don't see Zee Hamoda pulling the same thing (but if he can and does, good for him).

I've done this exact same thing within my economic environment twice now: "pay me more or I'm leaving." Both environments told me to pound sand. I now make more than I ever have and my employer values me more (both in pay and workplace freedom) than anybody else ever has. Again, good for them (and me).
You are not an amateur. Obstensibly college athletes are. So let’s call a spade a spade and remove the NCAA from the picture and call college sports professional organizations. Conferences and athletic programs can establish themselves as for-profit organizations and pay their employees whatever the market will bear. They can also pay taxes on their profits. Problem solved.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by nvspuds » April 29th, 2022, 6:41 pm

Wong just apologized and said he will honor his contract.



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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by 2004AG » April 29th, 2022, 8:19 pm

918AGG wrote:So let the talent find its level. I don't see how this ruins anything. Finally, NCAA athletes are allowed to act like rational actors in a dynamic economic environment. Good for them.

This has always been and will always be a story of the haves and have nots. I don't see Zee Hamoda pulling the same thing (but if he can and does, good for him).

I've done this exact same thing within my economic environment twice now: "pay me more or I'm leaving." Both environments told me to pound sand. I now make more than I ever have and my employer values me more (both in pay and workplace freedom) than anybody else ever has. Again, good for them (and me).
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by slcagg » April 29th, 2022, 10:35 pm

And now football:




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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by SeattleAg » April 29th, 2022, 10:36 pm

2004AG wrote:
April 29th, 2022, 8:19 pm
918AGG wrote:So let the talent find its level. I don't see how this ruins anything. Finally, NCAA athletes are allowed to act like rational actors in a dynamic economic environment. Good for them.

This has always been and will always be a story of the haves and have nots. I don't see Zee Hamoda pulling the same thing (but if he can and does, good for him).

I've done this exact same thing within my economic environment twice now: "pay me more or I'm leaving." Both environments told me to pound sand. I now make more than I ever have and my employer values me more (both in pay and workplace freedom) than anybody else ever has. Again, good for them (and me).
Nobody pays or enjoys watching you work.


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No, but in a way that just makes his point even more. There is a market and a perceived value for "amateur" college athletes, but that value has accrued (visibly at least) entirely to the coaches and administrators of college sports. Until NIL, the athletes got exactly zero (visibly at least) of the value they created. (Let's all go watch the 30 for 30 about SMU's Pony Express and reminisce about the good old days when college athletes played purely for the love of the game and glory of their schools.)

I don't like where all this is taking college sports, and I really fear for the future of Olympic and women's sports once the big money factories move away, but the whole concept of college athletics was untenable from the start. If big money donors care that much about winning, it was never going to be this NCAA ideal, especially when the NCAA is in on the take. If you want to complain that money ruins everything, especially in our hyper-rationalized, advanced capitalist system, I am right with you, but that gets into a whole different economic debate.



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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by utaggies » April 30th, 2022, 11:32 am

SeattleAg wrote:
April 29th, 2022, 10:36 pm
2004AG wrote:
April 29th, 2022, 8:19 pm
918AGG wrote:So let the talent find its level. I don't see how this ruins anything. Finally, NCAA athletes are allowed to act like rational actors in a dynamic economic environment. Good for them.

This has always been and will always be a story of the haves and have nots. I don't see Zee Hamoda pulling the same thing (but if he can and does, good for him).

I've done this exact same thing within my economic environment twice now: "pay me more or I'm leaving." Both environments told me to pound sand. I now make more than I ever have and my employer values me more (both in pay and workplace freedom) than anybody else ever has. Again, good for them (and me).
Nobody pays or enjoys watching you work.


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No, but in a way that just makes his point even more. There is a market and a perceived value for "amateur" college athletes, but that value has accrued (visibly at least) entirely to the coaches and administrators of college sports. Until NIL, the athletes got exactly zero (visibly at least) of the value they created. (Let's all go watch the 30 for 30 about SMU's Pony Express and reminisce about the good old days when college athletes played purely for the love of the game and glory of their schools.)

I don't like where all this is taking college sports, and I really fear for the future of Olympic and women's sports once the big money factories move away, but the whole concept of college athletics was untenable from the start. If big money donors care that much about winning, it was never going to be this NCAA ideal, especially when the NCAA is in on the take. If you want to complain that money ruins everything, especially in our hyper-rationalized, advanced capitalist system, I am right with you, but that gets into a whole different economic debate.
Yeah, the athletes get absolutely nothing — except for the free food, lodging, apparel, medical services, and education — including tutors and books.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Pacobag » April 30th, 2022, 12:15 pm

utaggies wrote:
April 30th, 2022, 11:32 am
SeattleAg wrote:
April 29th, 2022, 10:36 pm
2004AG wrote:
April 29th, 2022, 8:19 pm
918AGG wrote:So let the talent find its level. I don't see how this ruins anything. Finally, NCAA athletes are allowed to act like rational actors in a dynamic economic environment. Good for them.

This has always been and will always be a story of the haves and have nots. I don't see Zee Hamoda pulling the same thing (but if he can and does, good for him).

I've done this exact same thing within my economic environment twice now: "pay me more or I'm leaving." Both environments told me to pound sand. I now make more than I ever have and my employer values me more (both in pay and workplace freedom) than anybody else ever has. Again, good for them (and me).
Nobody pays or enjoys watching you work.


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No, but in a way that just makes his point even more. There is a market and a perceived value for "amateur" college athletes, but that value has accrued (visibly at least) entirely to the coaches and administrators of college sports. Until NIL, the athletes got exactly zero (visibly at least) of the value they created. (Let's all go watch the 30 for 30 about SMU's Pony Express and reminisce about the good old days when college athletes played purely for the love of the game and glory of their schools.)

I don't like where all this is taking college sports, and I really fear for the future of Olympic and women's sports once the big money factories move away, but the whole concept of college athletics was untenable from the start. If big money donors care that much about winning, it was never going to be this NCAA ideal, especially when the NCAA is in on the take. If you want to complain that money ruins everything, especially in our hyper-rationalized, advanced capitalist system, I am right with you, but that gets into a whole different economic debate.
Yeah, the athletes get absolutely nothing — except for the free food, lodging, apparel, medical services, and education — including tutors and books.
Add the coaching, training, and media exposure (huge opportunity to increase their perceived value).
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by scotlandog » April 30th, 2022, 2:37 pm

What should have happened a long time ago was to cap the expenses of athletic departments. As non-profit entities, this should have been considered. They could only pay a certain amount on coaching positions, assistant coaches, etc. Facilities are exempt but personnel is capped. Maybe that changes and increases from year to year. Then all the profit for the school gets put back into education, scholarships, research. If they had limited this from the get go, it really would not have hurt the programs as a whole. Everyone is playing by the same rules and limits. We wouldn’t have bloated head coach salaries, and those in the political spectrum that clamor for free education, there is all the money you need to pay for it. We wouldn’t need to get into the discussion of paying players and having professional athletes now somehow called amateurs.

If and when the collapse of college sports happens and the power schools break away and start a farm league for professional leagues, then that is what should happen to preserve the true identity of college sports.


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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by FloridaAggie13 » May 1st, 2022, 11:42 am

This reminds me of the early days of NFL free agency where many teams leveraged the future to buy big name players, only to see the endeavor fail at bringing in a championship. Nowadays, teams are very selective with who they chase in free agency.

All of these NIL transfers will now put the spotlight on the program that bought them. When they fail at producing a championship, which almost all of them will, schools will pull hard on the emergency brake and become far more cautious and selective. It will take a few cycles, but it will happen.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Yossarian » May 2nd, 2022, 10:39 pm

Interesting article in Sports Illustrated

https://www.si.com/college/2022/05/02/n ... recruiting

The ironic thing, the money that these kids are chasing is going to drive the fans they hope to have away.

They don't realize that most college sports fans are cheering for the school, not the player. I have lost interest in pro sports (except MLB) and this stuff is making my enjoyment of college sports wane.
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by utaggies » May 2nd, 2022, 11:02 pm

Yossarian wrote:
May 2nd, 2022, 10:39 pm
Interesting article in Sports Illustrated

https://www.si.com/college/2022/05/02/n ... recruiting

The ironic thing, the money that these kids are chasing is going to drive the fans they hope to have away.

They don't realize that most college sports fans are cheering for the school, not the player. I have lost interest in pro sports (except MLB) and this stuff is making my enjoyment of college sports wane.
I see nothing in this that will drive fans away. The fans of the larger schools that will continue in the NIL arms race certainly aren’t going to be turned off by the success of their team.

The college basketball player of the year for Kentucky will make an estimated $2 million next year. Ahhhhh capitalism — it’s the American way!



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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » May 5th, 2022, 9:22 pm

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.



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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by BigBlueDart » May 6th, 2022, 11:46 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
May 5th, 2022, 9:22 pm
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
Image
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by USUaggienation » May 12th, 2022, 8:33 pm

Ok, you guys don’t like it that the kids get paid. I’m not going to bother wasting my time to try and convince you that it’s for the better.

But some of you are tip-toeing toward saying that we can just replace college sports with a development league. No! This is where I draw the line. Between the ineptitude of the G-League and the atrocities of Europe’s academy systems, I will fight any of you on this point.



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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by 2004AG » May 12th, 2022, 9:05 pm

USUaggienation wrote:Ok, you guys don’t like it that the kids get paid. I’m not going to bother wasting my time to try and convince you that it’s for the better.

But some of you are tip-toeing toward saying that we can just replace college sports with a development league. No! This is where I draw the line. Between the ineptitude of the G-League and the atrocities of Europe’s academy systems, I will fight any of you on this point.
Making money isn’t the problem per se. the problem is it turning into a quasi professional league where Pitt has a really good receiver so USC pays him to transfer.


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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » May 12th, 2022, 9:36 pm

USUaggienation wrote:
May 12th, 2022, 8:33 pm
Ok, you guys don’t like it that the kids get paid. I’m not going to bother wasting my time to try and convince you that it’s for the better.

But some of you are tip-toeing toward saying that we can just replace college sports with a development league. No! This is where I draw the line. Between the ineptitude of the G-League and the atrocities of Europe’s academy systems, I will fight any of you on this point.
I've always supported players being able to profit off their likeness while in school. One of the sillier scandals in recent memory was the Johnny Manziel autograph scandal. If a kid wants to sign autographs and people are willing to pay him for his autographs, more power to him.

With that said, there should be some regulation. There is a difference between profiting off your likeness and just a bidding war for players. The NCAA is to blame. They had decades to figure this out and regulate it, but instead fought it every step of the way and now we are in the situation we are in.



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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by scotlandog » May 13th, 2022, 4:58 pm

USUaggienation wrote:Ok, you guys don’t like it that the kids get paid. I’m not going to bother wasting my time to try and convince you that it’s for the better.

But some of you are tip-toeing toward saying that we can just replace college sports with a development league. No! This is where I draw the line. Between the ineptitude of the G-League and the atrocities of Europe’s academy systems, I will fight any of you on this point.
I don’t know about us saying its ok to be replaced with a development league, it’s just that is where we are headed as players become professionals in an amateur league.

I think in some way, shape, or form all SEC and other power fball schools will have to conform back to amateur status or they will just go and start their own league, which will be a development league. They will do away with the farce of student athlete.

I think there is a difference from a player getting some money for his likeness, like it has been said, or for his autographs, and having a contract to play for a school for x amount of money. (I also think this differs from a scholarship as a scholly isn’t money in hand but does have value.) This NIL fiasco has already been severely abused and laughs in the face of amateur status.

We need college fball to come back within the folds of ncaa and have a proper playoff, we need the ncaa to treat these programs like professional leagues do and put caps on athletic departments spending like the NFL for both players and coaches with controlled increases. These colleges then also need to be required to put excess profits back into the colleges and decrease cost of admission.

All of this though, no matter what, has already lost the charm of amateur college athletics and is now just minor league professional leagues and it won’t ever go back. So yeah, no matter what, I don’t care about college fball unless it USU and I foresee basketball following suit.


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NVAggie
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Re: The beginning of the end for CBB

Post by NVAggie » May 16th, 2022, 8:13 am

I only watch games from USU on TV and the NCAA tournament games. That is the extent of my sports watching. I know I am in the minority for a sports board, but I'm not interested in creating more buzz for these other programs.
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