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Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
- Real Life Aggie
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I think Queta deserves a callout on this.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I’d say it’s Jaycee at the moment due to his pro status and accomplishments, but it very well could end up being Merrill or Queta- unless we are basing it on USU only, then it might be a hotter debate.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I'm saying USU only, which is why I voted for Sam. Jaycee has had an pro excellent career and is currently the best post-USU player. Sam could do some work in the NBA, so could Queta. But I really think you can only compare their USU careers.
But, "USU only" gives any of the three of them a good position in such a debate.
But, "USU only" gives any of the three of them a good position in such a debate.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
There you go again, always thinking about yourself.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
In the last 20 years at USU I have not seen a player with the will to dominate a game like Sam Merrill. Carroll and Queta were super impactful, but Sam Merrill could pick the team up on his mighty back and carry them to victory. I will always wonder what would've happened in the NCAA tournament in 2020 had it been played. Sam Merrill was unstoppable.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
No. You were thinking USU, but only the very recent ones. Me and the rest of the older crowd thinks it is great that you have your moments to honor the athletes you have grown up on in these past very few years.
Us old guys are very lucky to have seen the players you have seen, but have seen 50 to 60 years more of the truly greats who make up the real foundation of Aggie basketball, long before most of you were born.
Keep us old guys in mind once in awhile. We are glad to see so many AGGIES out there carrying the torch.
PS. I voted for Merrill.
Last edited by mcaggie1 on May 12th, 2021, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I’d vote for Sam as well, because I agree with this. Jaycee was a really great scorer, but I don’t remember him creating his own shot like Sam. You could probably count on Jaycee to just get open on any play just because he’d outwork anyone. Sam’s confidence on the other hand in just taking the ball and having the “you won’t stop me attitude” was something to behold. I think Sam had more success as well here- 2x tourney MVP and 2x all MWC. It’s too bad we weren’t able to have the tournament because a win or two would leave no doubt.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:In the last 20 years at USU I have not seen a player with the will to dominate a game like Sam Merrill. Carroll and Queta were super impactful, but Sam Merrill could pick the team up on his mighty back and carry them to victory. I will always wonder what would've happened in the NCAA tournament in 2020 had it been played. Sam Merrill was unstoppable.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I mean, the title is "past 20 years".mcaggie1 wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:08 pmNo. You were thinking USU, but only the very recent ones. Me and the rest of the older crowd thinks it is great that you have your moments to honor the athletes you have grown up on in these past very few years.
Us old guys are very lucky to have seen the players you have seen, but have seen 50 to 60 years more of the truly greats who make up the real foundation of Aggie basketball, long before most of you were born.
Keep us old guys in mind once in awhile. We are glad to see so many AGGIES out there carrying the torch.
PS. I voted for Merrill.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
20 years means the very recent ones when you compare it with decades. Very recent to you means something very different to me. It’s all relative.Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:13 pmI mean, the title is "past 20 years".mcaggie1 wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:08 pmNo. You were thinking USU, but only the very recent ones. Me and the rest of the older crowd thinks it is great that you have your moments to honor the athletes you have grown up on in these past very few years.
Us old guys are very lucky to have seen the players you have seen, but have seen 50 to 60 years more of the truly greats who make up the real foundation of Aggie basketball, long before most of you were born.
Keep us old guys in mind once in awhile. We are glad to see so many AGGIES out there carrying the torch.
PS. I voted for Merrill.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
This is a tough call.
Carroll is the best 3-point shooter in college basketball since 2000 (statistically proven https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... rs-century ). HIs relentless energy and ability to square up and get a shot off (be it off a screen, the dribble, or in a catch-and-shoot situation) was lightening quick and incredible to watch. He was great on a fast break, too, and could score from anywhere on the court. He is also USU's all-time leading scorer.
Merrill was a more complete all-around player. He was an under-rated defender, often defending the best wing player on the opposing team. He was crafty and used his body well to get shots off - especially in traffic. He was deceptively quick, but not fast and not quick for more than a step or two. Carroll was much more athletic and quicker/faster than Merrill. Sam was clutch - more so than Carroll. Sam seemed to have the ability to score any time he wanted. This was an advantage he had over Carroll. Jaycee would get frustrated and out-muscled by larger wings. Merrill didn't have that problem. He was strong enough to back them down and then step back and shoot over them.
But if you're looking for the one player that is completely irreplaceable, it is Neemias Queta. His skill set and combination of size and athleticism cannot be replaced. You can always find 3-point shooters. You can't always find 7-footers that can run, jump, block shots (and stay out of foul trouble while doing it), and pass out of the post like Queta could. I would vote for Queta.
Carroll is the best 3-point shooter in college basketball since 2000 (statistically proven https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... rs-century ). HIs relentless energy and ability to square up and get a shot off (be it off a screen, the dribble, or in a catch-and-shoot situation) was lightening quick and incredible to watch. He was great on a fast break, too, and could score from anywhere on the court. He is also USU's all-time leading scorer.
Merrill was a more complete all-around player. He was an under-rated defender, often defending the best wing player on the opposing team. He was crafty and used his body well to get shots off - especially in traffic. He was deceptively quick, but not fast and not quick for more than a step or two. Carroll was much more athletic and quicker/faster than Merrill. Sam was clutch - more so than Carroll. Sam seemed to have the ability to score any time he wanted. This was an advantage he had over Carroll. Jaycee would get frustrated and out-muscled by larger wings. Merrill didn't have that problem. He was strong enough to back them down and then step back and shoot over them.
But if you're looking for the one player that is completely irreplaceable, it is Neemias Queta. His skill set and combination of size and athleticism cannot be replaced. You can always find 3-point shooters. You can't always find 7-footers that can run, jump, block shots (and stay out of foul trouble while doing it), and pass out of the post like Queta could. I would vote for Queta.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I agree that 20 years is recent. I just commented because I thought that you had missed that given your response. No worries. Go Aggies!mcaggie1 wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:25 pm20 years means the very recent ones when you compare it with decades. Very recent to you means something very different to me. It’s all relative.Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:13 pmI mean, the title is "past 20 years".mcaggie1 wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:08 pmNo. You were thinking USU, but only the very recent ones. Me and the rest of the older crowd thinks it is great that you have your moments to honor the athletes you have grown up on in these past very few years.
Us old guys are very lucky to have seen the players you have seen, but have seen 50 to 60 years more of the truly greats who make up the real foundation of Aggie basketball, long before most of you were born.
Keep us old guys in mind once in awhile. We are glad to see so many AGGIES out there carrying the torch.
PS. I voted for Merrill.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Can I change my vote?Yossarian wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:28 pmThis is a tough call.
Carroll is the best 3-point shooter in college basketball since 2000 (statistically proven https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... rs-century ). HIs relentless energy and ability to square up and get a shot off (be it off a screen, the dribble, or in a catch-and-shoot situation) was lightening quick and incredible to watch. He was great on a fast break, too, and could score from anywhere on the court. He is also USU's all-time leading scorer.
Merrill was a more complete all-around player. He was an under-rated defender, often defending the best wing player on the opposing team. He was crafty and used his body well to get shots off - especially in traffic. He was deceptively quick, but not fast and not quick for more than a step or two. Carroll was much more athletic and quicker/faster than Merrill. Sam was clutch - more so than Carroll. Sam seemed to have the ability to score any time he wanted. This was an advantage he had over Carroll. Jaycee would get frustrated and out-muscled by larger wings. Merrill didn't have that problem. He was strong enough to back them down and then step back and shoot over them.
But if you're looking for the one player that is completely irreplaceable, it is Neemias Queta. His skill set and combination of size and athleticism cannot be replaced. You can always find 3-point shooters. You can't always find 7-footers that can run, jump, block shots (and stay out of foul trouble while doing it), and pass out of the post like Queta could. I would vote for Queta.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Compelling argument for Sam, but it still doesn't change my vote for J.C. It really is a #1a and #1b sort of ranking either way, in my opinion.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Agreed. Both were great but J.C. gets my nod. Spent a lot of hours in the Spectrum being amazed at what the could do.ereksonaggie wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 3:41 pmCompelling argument for Sam, but it still doesn't change my vote for J.C. It really is a #1a and #1b sort of ranking either way, in my opinion.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Based on the following I need to go with Jaycee.
Sam Merrill College Stats
Games: 132
Average: 16.6 ppg
Rebounds: 3.6 per game
Assists: 3.6 per game
FG%: 47.0
FG3%: 42.0
FT%: 89.1
eFG%: 57.5
WS: 22.4
Jaycee Carroll College Stats
Games: 134
Average: 18.8 ppg
Rebounds: 5.1 per game
Assists: 2.0 per game
FG%: 51.1
FG3%: 46.5
FT%: 86.2
eFG%: 61.9
WS: 25.0
Sam Merrill College Stats
Games: 132
Average: 16.6 ppg
Rebounds: 3.6 per game
Assists: 3.6 per game
FG%: 47.0
FG3%: 42.0
FT%: 89.1
eFG%: 57.5
WS: 22.4
Jaycee Carroll College Stats
Games: 134
Average: 18.8 ppg
Rebounds: 5.1 per game
Assists: 2.0 per game
FG%: 51.1
FG3%: 46.5
FT%: 86.2
eFG%: 61.9
WS: 25.0
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
It was awesome to watch each of their Aggie careers. I think Jaycee edges Sam in shooting even though both were/are great shooters. I believe Sam played in a tougher conference against higher rated competition and was the better all-around player. Jaycee had better hops and conditioning (the guy never seemed to stop moving). I lean Sam because of his defense, passing, and clutch shooting (recency bias?).
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I too would vote Neemias Queta. Since he isn't an option, I went with Sammy and it shouldn't be close.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I never thought I would see the day when 22 was wrong...
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
JC was so long ago that current students will have no idea how great he is. Of course, I just found out tony brown is white last year (his name is deceiving, ok?). That said, it’s still Sam sunburned mamba Merrill.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Queta is the best player for one game IMO, but he only played 2.5 years so I would rank Carroll, Merrill, Tai Wesley + Nate Harris ahead of him in terms of their career accomplishments.
As is, I think Carroll has a slight edge for 4 year guys. But I do wonder what Sam’s numbers would be if Duryea hadn’t underutilized him for his first two years.
As is, I think Carroll has a slight edge for 4 year guys. But I do wonder what Sam’s numbers would be if Duryea hadn’t underutilized him for his first two years.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I don't think it was so much that Duryea underutilized him, I think Merrill voluntarily took more of a lesser role ceding a lot of shots to McEwen. If those two would have had a big man that demanded a double-team like Queta, they could have been very dangerous. Merrill filled whatever role he saw necessary on a team. When McEwen left and the team needed a leader/scorer, Merrill recognized it and stepped into that role.MarioWest wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 6:05 pmQueta is the best player for one game IMO, but he only played 2.5 years so I would rank Carroll, Merrill, Tai Wesley + Nate Harris ahead of him in terms of their career accomplishments.
As is, I think Carroll has a slight edge for 4 year guys. But I do wonder what Sam’s numbers would be if Duryea hadn’t underutilized him for his first two years.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Completely agree that Queta was exactly the player those teams were missing, but Duryea still underutilized Sam.Yossarian wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 6:36 pmI don't think it was so much that Duryea underutilized him, I think Merrill voluntarily took more of a lesser role ceding a lot of shots to McEwen. If those two would have had a big man that demanded a double-team like Queta, they could have been very dangerous. Merrill filled whatever role he saw necessary on a team. When McEwen left and the team needed a leader/scorer, Merrill recognized it and stepped into that role.
It would have been a very tough call to make given the acclaim surrounding McEwen, but those teams would have been better if Merrill shot more and McEwen shot less. No slight to Sam or Koby. That’s on Duryea.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
So if you were captain of a team and had all the players of the last 20 years to choose from and you got to pick first, who would you pick? If the order rolls and you get #1 and the other guy picks #2/#3, you get #4/#5, etc... I would pick Queta for sure. Otherwise you split the other two and give Queta to the other team. I'd take Queta, then a PG and PF. Dominate the inside. Even if you get the first and third pick I'd choose Queta and end up with the leftover of Sam/Jaycee. Of course, those are different conversations than the best USU player but in picking teams Queta would be very compelling.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
I could be. After reading the arguments about career length and accomplishments I'm waffling. It's healthy discussion.ereksonaggie wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 5:23 pmI never thought I would see the day when 22 was wrong...
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
It's a fun discussion, much more so than talking about how many black/white guys to have on the team.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Completely agree. I watched Carroll play too many games in person and really want to say he was the best but Merrill had a better all around game. He also played against better competition than Carroll. Queta should have been included.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:In the last 20 years at USU I have not seen a player with the will to dominate a game like Sam Merrill. Carroll and Queta were super impactful, but Sam Merrill could pick the team up on his mighty back and carry them to victory. I will always wonder what would've happened in the NCAA tournament in 2020 had it been played. Sam Merrill was unstoppable.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
The fact that Queta didn't even put in 4 years because he is headed to the NBA tells me where he is in line of greatness. If it is not a measure of best college career stats, but a question of greatest player, I take Queta.
Jaycee is the next closest for me.
Jaycee is the next closest for me.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Jaycee made me a fan of USU basketball so he is the one I voted for. He is the greatest to ME. That doesn't necessarily make him the best though.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
NBA > Euro. Don’t get me wrong, playing in Europe and being as successful as he has been is still a big deal but the NBA is where the best players play. I don’t know how Sams career will go but the only other USU player I can remember playing in the NBA in the recent past is Desmond Pinegar and he only had a few ten day contracts.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Carroll and Queta had elite parts of their game. Carroll was an elite scorer/shooter. Defensively, he was serviceable. It isn't every day that USU has a shooter that makes you shocked when they miss. I loved watching him play basketball. He never stopped moving. It was obvious from his very first game that he was going to put up a lot of points in a USU uniform. I had pity on the guy drawing the assignment of chasing him back and forth around the baseline. They were typically met with a hard screen and a three pointer in their face. It was beautiful to watch. Jimmer gets all the hype, but Carroll was a better shooter.
Queta was an elite shot blocker. He absolutely changed the game on one end of the floor more than the other two players. This past year was his masterpiece. We won games because of his dominance in the paint. Queta had some good offensive scoring games. He was a willing passer, I would even call his passing game high level for a big man. His free throw shooting improved drastically this year. Against bigger posts, he showed some weakness. He was a bit awkward and weak at times on the offensive end and could get neutralized.
As for Merrill, my choice, he was a high level shooter. I do believe he relied on flopping to the line a bit much, but he could finish in the paint. He was a reliable ball handler who could create his own shot at every level. He was an above average defender. He would typically draw the assignment of the best perimeter player from the other team. I don't think Queta or Carroll can compete with the special run that we witnessed in the 2020 MWC tournament. No other player in modern USU history has had that kind of run on that stage. He willed that team to victory. Every one of us will remember that shot for the rest of our lives. Sam Merrill provided me with the greatest USU sports memory of my life. There is simply no other choice than a kid who was born with True Aggie Blood running through his veins.
Queta was an elite shot blocker. He absolutely changed the game on one end of the floor more than the other two players. This past year was his masterpiece. We won games because of his dominance in the paint. Queta had some good offensive scoring games. He was a willing passer, I would even call his passing game high level for a big man. His free throw shooting improved drastically this year. Against bigger posts, he showed some weakness. He was a bit awkward and weak at times on the offensive end and could get neutralized.
As for Merrill, my choice, he was a high level shooter. I do believe he relied on flopping to the line a bit much, but he could finish in the paint. He was a reliable ball handler who could create his own shot at every level. He was an above average defender. He would typically draw the assignment of the best perimeter player from the other team. I don't think Queta or Carroll can compete with the special run that we witnessed in the 2020 MWC tournament. No other player in modern USU history has had that kind of run on that stage. He willed that team to victory. Every one of us will remember that shot for the rest of our lives. Sam Merrill provided me with the greatest USU sports memory of my life. There is simply no other choice than a kid who was born with True Aggie Blood running through his veins.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Yeah! Which is why I was looking to vote for Marv Roberts, team that made it to the NCAA Elite Eight, I believe.mcaggie1 wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:08 pmNo. You were thinking USU, but only the very recent ones. Me and the rest of the older crowd thinks it is great that you have your moments to honor the athletes you have grown up on in these past very few years.
Us old guys are very lucky to have seen the players you have seen, but have seen 50 to 60 years more of the truly greats who make up the real foundation of Aggie basketball, long before most of you were born.
Keep us old guys in mind once in awhile. We are glad to see so many AGGIES out there carrying the torch.
PS. I voted for Merrill.
As for the three candidates, I will go with Sam...for "off court" reasons, as well. Jaycee played for Stew, during period of fairly calm waters for the program. Sam played through turbulence & transition in the program and came through admirably.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
In my opinion Carroll and Merrill were neck and neck before The Shot. The performance in Sam's final tournament gives him the nod in my book.
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Re: Greatest Player of the Past 20 years?
Agreed on Marv Roberts. And to be fair I also think Greg Grant needs to be in the conversation. Sam was great but he also has the benefit of a recency effect.Winkie wrote: ↑May 13th, 2021, 2:55 pmYeah! Which is why I was looking to vote for Marv Roberts, team that made it to the NCAA Elite Eight, I believe.mcaggie1 wrote: ↑May 12th, 2021, 2:08 pmNo. You were thinking USU, but only the very recent ones. Me and the rest of the older crowd thinks it is great that you have your moments to honor the athletes you have grown up on in these past very few years.
Us old guys are very lucky to have seen the players you have seen, but have seen 50 to 60 years more of the truly greats who make up the real foundation of Aggie basketball, long before most of you were born.
Keep us old guys in mind once in awhile. We are glad to see so many AGGIES out there carrying the torch.
PS. I voted for Merrill.
As for the three candidates, I will go with Sam...for "off court" reasons, as well. Jaycee played for Stew, during period of fairly calm waters for the program. Sam played through turbulence & transition in the program and came through admirably.