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Future recruiting advice for Odom
Future recruiting advice for Odom
With the new transfer rule, you don’t want to waste too much time, energy and resources recruiting high school kids - spend it recruiting transfers burning their free transfer. There are, as mentioned in other threads,, a couple of exceptions: Aggie legacy kids and (for the most part) mission kids.
For the most part, recruiting high school kids will be like raising corn to feed another man’s hogs.
For the most part, recruiting high school kids will be like raising corn to feed another man’s hogs.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
That is certainly the fear and will change the game forever. I hope he does as you say. I would much rather steal some other team's star than get all excited about a great freshman only to see them playing for a Pac 12 school the next year.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
How in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I won't be surprised when the only real high school recruiting we do is going after mission kids because they are more likely to remain at Utah State once they get here. And we've typically had tremendous success with mission kids. They play very well once they return.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I think the idea was that we got a year of good contributions from them. A year of good contributions from a player helps the team.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
Classic Blunders:
1) Getting involved in a land war in Asia
2) Going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line
1) Getting involved in a land war in Asia
2) Going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Says Jordan Stone, Danny Berger, David Collette, Kyle Davis, And a whole bunch of others that just disappeared from rosters. I don't think even BYU would do thisaggies22 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:13 amI won't be surprised when the only real high school recruiting we do is going after mission kids because they are more likely to remain at Utah State once they get here. And we've typically had tremendous success with mission kids. They play very well once they return.
Handle recruiting just like you would hiring a coach, get the best you can. I don't care if they are a Freshman, RM,, Grad Transfer international or out of the portal. I'd much rather have turnover of good players on the roster then a bunch of players on the roster that nobody else wants.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
But others did want Dave Collette and Kyle Davis. Did Danny and Jordan pan out? Not really. But I'm willing to bet we've had more RM success stories than failures. I'm not saying build the whole damn roster with RM's. That would be stupid.Aggieiester wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:45 amSays Jordan Stone, Danny Berger, David Collette, Kyle Davis, And a whole bunch of others that just disappeared from rosters. I don't think even BYU would do thisaggies22 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:13 amI won't be surprised when the only real high school recruiting we do is going after mission kids because they are more likely to remain at Utah State once they get here. And we've typically had tremendous success with mission kids. They play very well once they return.
Handle recruiting just like you would hiring a coach, get the best you can. I don't care if they are a Freshman, RM,, Grad Transfer international or out of the portal. I'd much rather have turnover of good players on the roster then a bunch of players on the roster that nobody else wants.
Last edited by aggies22 on April 16th, 2021, 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Well, I mean I guess Worster was good for us? In the short term maybe?usubobcat wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:31 amI think the idea was that we got a year of good contributions from them. A year of good contributions from a player helps the team.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
I think it would be much better to recruit good players and have them stay more than one year. Are we really better off as a team and program if we lose all our good freshmen and sophomores every year?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
So you are telling me that if Odom has a chance to land a 4-star point guard he should not offer a scholarship because the chance of him transferring in a year is too high?2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:06 amWell, I mean I guess Worster was good for us? In the short term maybe?usubobcat wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:31 amI think the idea was that we got a year of good contributions from them. A year of good contributions from a player helps the team.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
I think it would be much better to recruit good players and have them stay more than one year. Are we really better off as a team and program if we lose all our good freshmen and sophomores every year?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
The same reason that 1 and does are good for Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. Just not at the same scale. The only reason a bigger program will recruit one of our players is if they showed they were good enough for that program in the time that they were here.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
It's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
The difference is that when a kid transfers out, it hurts your feelings.
Last edited by LarryTheAggie on April 16th, 2021, 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I thought your point was that we should focus mostly on future RM's to recruit out of High School because we've typically had tremendous success with mission kids and my point is that I don't think that success rate is any better than any other group especially if you go back about 10 years or so. Turnover is turnover regardless if they transfer to another school or get counseled out of the program.aggies22 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:54 amBut others did want Dave Collette and Kyle Davis. Did Danny and Jordan pan out? Not really. But for I'm willing to bet we've had more RM success stories than failures. I'm not saying build the whole damn roster with RM's. That would be stupid.Aggieiester wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:45 amSays Jordan Stone, Danny Berger, David Collette, Kyle Davis, And a whole bunch of others that just disappeared from rosters. I don't think even BYU would do thisaggies22 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:13 amI won't be surprised when the only real high school recruiting we do is going after mission kids because they are more likely to remain at Utah State once they get here. And we've typically had tremendous success with mission kids. They play very well once they return.
Handle recruiting just like you would hiring a coach, get the best you can. I don't care if they are a Freshman, RM,, Grad Transfer international or out of the portal. I'd much rather have turnover of good players on the roster then a bunch of players on the roster that nobody else wants.
I'm not saying don't go after RM's or LDS kids either but do so knowing that especially in Utah you are more often than not you are getting kids that BYU and Utah didn't want. How big is the recruiting pool after that?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Solid, has anyone emailed this advice to him yet? Wondering what the response was if so
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Still go out and recruit the HS kids. Those relationships can pan out in the Transfer market a year or two down the line. If you completely ignore the HS ranks, you have to build up that relationship in a VERY short time. But if that recruit knows you some, that can help seal the transfer.
My opinion, you may not offer a whole lot that come, but you still recruit the HS ranks. Recruiting at our level is relationships.
My opinion, you may not offer a whole lot that come, but you still recruit the HS ranks. Recruiting at our level is relationships.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
So are you telling me there is no benefit to continuity and building and developing a team? Are we better off with Bean on the team again next year or should we be happy if he transfers after we've invested 3 years into him already?Aggieiester wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:13 amSo you are telling me that if Odom has a chance to land a 4-star point guard he should not offer a scholarship because the chance of him transferring in a year is too high?2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:06 amWell, I mean I guess Worster was good for us? In the short term maybe?usubobcat wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:31 amI think the idea was that we got a year of good contributions from them. A year of good contributions from a player helps the team.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
I think it would be much better to recruit good players and have them stay more than one year. Are we really better off as a team and program if we lose all our good freshmen and sophomores every year?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Absolutely. Great thinking!Aggiefan33 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:50 amStill go out and recruit the HS kids. Those relationships can pan out in the Transfer market a year or two down the line. If you completely ignore the HS ranks, you have to build up that relationship in a VERY short time. But if that recruit knows you some, that can help seal the transfer.
My opinion, you may not offer a whole lot that come, but you still recruit the HS ranks. Recruiting at our level is relationships.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
When Odom starts recruiting 5 star kids that we beat out Kansas for, we can revisit this conversation.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amThe same reason that 1 and does are good for Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. Just not at the same scale. The only reason a bigger program will recruit one of our players is if they showed they were good enough for that program in the time that they were here.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
It's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
The difference is that when a kid transfers out, it hurts your feelings.
It puts a lot of pressure to on the coaching staff to replace the departing player with someone just as good or better. Lets pretend Bean was leaving and we replaced him with Horvath. Is that a trade you want to be making?
We essentially traded Smith for Odom. Can Odom be as good or better than Smith? Maybe, but maybe not. Wouldn't we rather have Smith because we already know what we've got with him?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
It's funny to think that coaches have never thought of any of this.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
So you would rather not have Bean at all than have to replace him?2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:13 amWhen Odom starts recruiting 5 star kids that we beat out Kansas for, we can revisit this conversation.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amThe same reason that 1 and does are good for Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. Just not at the same scale. The only reason a bigger program will recruit one of our players is if they showed they were good enough for that program in the time that they were here.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
It's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
The difference is that when a kid transfers out, it hurts your feelings.
It puts a lot of pressure to on the coaching staff to replace the departing player with someone just as good or better. Lets pretend Bean was leaving and we replaced him with Horvath. Is that a trade you want to be making?
We essentially traded Smith for Odom. Can Odom be as good or better than Smith? Maybe, but maybe not. Wouldn't we rather have Smith because we already know what we've got with him?
And aren't you advocating for relying more on the transfer portal, but than you say that the guy we got from the portal will not be as good as the guy he is replacing.
I am not quite sure what you are arguing for.
For the record I am not saying we should not use the portal, but to not recruit a kid because he MIGHT transfer does not seem like a good strategy.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
You didn't answer my question, you just said a bunch of things that I did not say.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:05 amSo are you telling me there is no benefit to continuity and building and developing a team? Are we better off with Bean on the team again next year or should we be happy if he transfers after we've invested 3 years into him already?Aggieiester wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:13 amSo you are telling me that if Odom has a chance to land a 4-star point guard he should not offer a scholarship because the chance of him transferring in a year is too high?2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:06 amWell, I mean I guess Worster was good for us? In the short term maybe?usubobcat wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:31 amI think the idea was that we got a year of good contributions from them. A year of good contributions from a player helps the team.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
I think it would be much better to recruit good players and have them stay more than one year. Are we really better off as a team and program if we lose all our good freshmen and sophomores every year?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I'm arguing that your original #1 point is wrong. "1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school."LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:24 amSo you would rather not have Bean at all than have to replace him?2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:13 amWhen Odom starts recruiting 5 star kids that we beat out Kansas for, we can revisit this conversation.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amThe same reason that 1 and does are good for Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. Just not at the same scale. The only reason a bigger program will recruit one of our players is if they showed they were good enough for that program in the time that they were here.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
It's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
The difference is that when a kid transfers out, it hurts your feelings.
It puts a lot of pressure to on the coaching staff to replace the departing player with someone just as good or better. Lets pretend Bean was leaving and we replaced him with Horvath. Is that a trade you want to be making?
We essentially traded Smith for Odom. Can Odom be as good or better than Smith? Maybe, but maybe not. Wouldn't we rather have Smith because we already know what we've got with him?
And aren't you advocating for relying more on the transfer portal, but than you say that the guy we got from the portal will not be as good as the guy he is replacing.
I am not quite sure what you are arguing for.
For the record I am not saying we should not use the portal, but to not recruit a kid because he MIGHT transfer does not seem like a good strategy.
Its not good for us at all. Is it the nature of college basketball? Yes. Do we have to navigate it as best we can? Yes. Is it good for us? Absolutely not.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Okay, that is fair. Clearly it is better if they stay, I would love it if every good player stays 4 years. But given that transfers happen and will continue to happen. If a player comes in and plays for a year or two and shows that they are good enough to play for a bigger program, I think that is a good thing for us.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:31 amI'm arguing that your original #1 point is wrong. "1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school."LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:24 amSo you would rather not have Bean at all than have to replace him?2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:13 amWhen Odom starts recruiting 5 star kids that we beat out Kansas for, we can revisit this conversation.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amThe same reason that 1 and does are good for Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. Just not at the same scale. The only reason a bigger program will recruit one of our players is if they showed they were good enough for that program in the time that they were here.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
It's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
The difference is that when a kid transfers out, it hurts your feelings.
It puts a lot of pressure to on the coaching staff to replace the departing player with someone just as good or better. Lets pretend Bean was leaving and we replaced him with Horvath. Is that a trade you want to be making?
We essentially traded Smith for Odom. Can Odom be as good or better than Smith? Maybe, but maybe not. Wouldn't we rather have Smith because we already know what we've got with him?
And aren't you advocating for relying more on the transfer portal, but than you say that the guy we got from the portal will not be as good as the guy he is replacing.
I am not quite sure what you are arguing for.
For the record I am not saying we should not use the portal, but to not recruit a kid because he MIGHT transfer does not seem like a good strategy.
Its not good for us at all. Is it the nature of college basketball? Yes. Do we have to navigate it as best we can? Yes. Is it good for us? Absolutely not.
Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky are built on players that only play for a year and they are usually fine(not this year clearly). Not that Zion is walking through the Estes center any time, but if we can get a high 3 star kid that can give us solid minutes for a year or two, I will take him. I hope he sticks around, if he does not, I will be glad we had him for a year. Unless he transfers to the U or BYU.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Disagree. If we have a lot of kids that go to big schools that means we are winning. Get the best players we can. If enough start leaving it means we are winning and we’ll get a bigger pool of good players.
Once kids step onto campus other things start to matter too. Not everyone is going to transfer. They’re going to war for USU, their social life revolves around USU. It’s a big step to transfer and not everyone will want to.
Bean could play at almost any school. Remember, Abel Porter transferred to Ohio State and in my opinion Bean is a better player than Porter. Bean chose to stay at Utah State.
Once kids step onto campus other things start to matter too. Not everyone is going to transfer. They’re going to war for USU, their social life revolves around USU. It’s a big step to transfer and not everyone will want to.
Bean could play at almost any school. Remember, Abel Porter transferred to Ohio State and in my opinion Bean is a better player than Porter. Bean chose to stay at Utah State.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Excellent point. You can approach this in two ways, be afraid that you are going to lose good players (flight) or become better and create an environment where players want to stay (fight). Use this as an opportunity to become better. As was mentioned Bean could have gone to almost ANY school he wanted, unlike a lot of players entering the portal. Bean appears to love Utah State and is staying with us. Let’s have that be our goal.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
A bit of an emotional overreaction. Similar to free agency... people suggested that small market teams would never again succeed. Statistical analysis in NBA, NFL and MLB have shown that competition has not gone away. People also suggested that the one and done model would allow blue blood programs to win every NCAAB championship... how did that work for KY, Duke, UNC last year? There is significant demand to transfer as this is brand new... give it a couple of years and a lot of recruits will recognize that he grass is greener strategy doesn't totally work out. Innovators will always find opportunities to exploit the market whether at big or small programs. We need to make sure that we find innovators that are looking to hunt or we'll continue to get passed by.FireAg wrote: ↑April 15th, 2021, 9:51 pmWith the new transfer rule, you don’t want to waste too much time, energy and resources recruiting high school kids - spend it recruiting transfers burning their free transfer. There are, as mentioned in other threads,, a couple of exceptions: Aggie legacy kids and (for the most part) mission kids.
For the most part, recruiting high school kids will be like raising corn to feed another man’s hogs.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I have been aware of USU since the Big West days..You have always managed to find good players and be competitive. The new rule affects everybody. I suspect you will adjust to the new dynamic just fine..
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Now I like that.FeartheFro wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:55 amExcellent point. You can approach this in two ways, be afraid that you are going to lose good players (flight) or become better and create an environment where players want to stay (fight). Use this as an opportunity to become better. As was mentioned Bean could have gone to almost ANY school he wanted, unlike a lot of players entering the portal. Bean appears to love Utah State and is staying with us. Let’s have that be our goal.
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It isn't a good sign when a head coach sets a limitation that he isn't going after a certain group of recruits because some may possibly transfer sometime down the road. Seems to me that people would want their head coach to be more competitive than that, and deal with the fact that players are going to transfer. Some by their choice, some by his.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I'm currently trying to condense it in to one email, what I've got so far is that we should for the most part recruit RM's out of High school and avoid players that might be too good and end up transferring out but also he needs to have a bunch of other schools offering him scholarships otherwise he is no good.ratofallaggies wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:44 amSolid, has anyone emailed this advice to him yet? Wondering what the response was if so
Did I miss anything?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Same could be said for Queta, I'm guessing there were many opportunities for him to transfer out after his 1st season but he stuck around until he decided it was time to enter the draft.FeartheFro wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:55 amExcellent point. You can approach this in two ways, be afraid that you are going to lose good players (flight) or become better and create an environment where players want to stay (fight). Use this as an opportunity to become better. As was mentioned Bean could have gone to almost ANY school he wanted, unlike a lot of players entering the portal. Bean appears to love Utah State and is staying with us. Let’s have that be our goal.
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We didn't have a transfer problem at USU until we had a coaching change.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I’m thinking more along the lines of being the farm team for the ewe. That I don’t want.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 9:13 amWhen Odom starts recruiting 5 star kids that we beat out Kansas for, we can revisit this conversation.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amThe same reason that 1 and does are good for Kansas, Duke, and Kentucky. Just not at the same scale. The only reason a bigger program will recruit one of our players is if they showed they were good enough for that program in the time that they were here.2004AG wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 7:10 amHow in the hell is your #1 good for us?LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 4:55 amI think we need to get over the fear of people leaving us, coaches or players. We are pretty insecure. If a high school kid comes in and then transfers a year later, it will likely be for 1 of two reasons:
1. they came in and were helped us out and proved to be good enough for a bigher school.
2. They did not do much, are transferring down for playing time, and everyone here has been screaming that they are not a MWC player anyway.
Both of those cases are probably good for us. Furthermore, with the transfer rule the market will be saturated with transfers, which will me the average level of high school kid we can get will go up. Also, getting a good high school kid on campus gives them a year to fall in love with Logan and they may not transfer. Finally, having a reputation as a school that can get high school kids into bluebird programs may actually be a good thing.
Not saying we should not go after transfers, but ignoring high school kids would be a mistake.
It's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
The difference is that when a kid transfers out, it hurts your feelings.
It puts a lot of pressure to on the coaching staff to replace the departing player with someone just as good or better. Lets pretend Bean was leaving and we replaced him with Horvath. Is that a trade you want to be making?
We essentially traded Smith for Odom. Can Odom be as good or better than Smith? Maybe, but maybe not. Wouldn't we rather have Smith because we already know what we've got with him?
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I honestly feel like as a mid-major we have a better shot at recruiting someone from high school and getting them to stay, over getting someone who is a proven contributor and is wanting to burn their transfer. Those type of transfers are unfortunately going to be P-5 bound.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
The difference is that a coach can still leave again, whereas if we can get transfers from another program, he can't leave a second time.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amIt's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
I would rather have a sophomore who has already transferred from another program with 10 points a game than a freshman with 10 points a game, cause the sophomore can't leave.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
Yeah like Marco Anthony, or Lew Evans, or Kyle Davis, or Alphonso Anderson?GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 11:10 amThe difference is that a coach can still leave again, whereas if we can get transfers from another program, he can't leave a second time.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amIt's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
I would rather have a sophomore who has already transferred from another program with 10 points a game than a freshman with 10 points a game, cause the sophomore can't leave.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
They can leave as long as they are willing to pay the penalty.
This will allow a lot of guys to transfer once, but limit the overall transfer rate. I believe in reasonable restrictions. They tend to enhance the importance of the initial decision and recognize that there are consequences of that decision. Too restrictive, they are unfair. No restrictions swing the pendulum too far the other way.
This will allow a lot of guys to transfer once, but limit the overall transfer rate. I believe in reasonable restrictions. They tend to enhance the importance of the initial decision and recognize that there are consequences of that decision. Too restrictive, they are unfair. No restrictions swing the pendulum too far the other way.
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Re: Future recruiting advice for Odom
I think the point that is being made is that if we take a transfer that is NOT a grad transfer and is instead an upperclassman, once that player uses his one time free transfer, he CAN NOT leave again until he graduates or unless he is willing to pay the price of redshirt if he previously has not or sit a year all together and lose a year of eligibility.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 11:14 amYeah like Marco Anthony, or Lew Evans, or Kyle Davis, or Alphonso Anderson?GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 11:10 amThe difference is that a coach can still leave again, whereas if we can get transfers from another program, he can't leave a second time.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑April 16th, 2021, 8:22 amIt's the same logic as coaching, do you want a coach that is really good and might leave, or an average coach that will stick around?
Also, what's the difference between a freshman that gets 10 points a game and transfers after a year or two, and a transfer that averages 10 points a game and is only here for a year or two.
I would rather have a sophomore who has already transferred from another program with 10 points a game than a freshman with 10 points a game, cause the sophomore can't leave.