Rough final game

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Rough final game

Post by SLB » March 15th, 2022, 10:06 pm

We missed our shots, and Oregon didn't miss theirs. Brock Miller's final shot going in reminded us of what it could have been this season. Bean had his worst shooting game of his career.
RJ missing everything in the last part of the season while players like Shulga and Zee actually made some shots marks the end of the RJ era.
Ashworth was hot and cold but went 6/10 from 3.
Shulga and Zee totaled 12 points in the 1st half, but they struggled in the 2nd half of the season. Both looked like they have improved and have a bright future.
We need a real 5 going forward.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by BobWilson » March 15th, 2022, 10:11 pm

my fears realized. We were against better athletes at every position and totally without a post player as has been the case all year. .



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Re: Rough final game

Post by SLB » March 15th, 2022, 10:22 pm

BobWilson wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:11 pm
my fears realized. We were against better athletes at every position and totally without a post player as has been the case all year. .
The 5 spot helps with blocks and make short shots hard to hit on defense and rebounds. We need Keba Keita.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by Aggiebigtime » March 15th, 2022, 10:35 pm

I’m worried we might have hired the wrong coach. I will give him a couple of years, but I don’t see him getting this turned around soon. He inherited a very mediocre team and really struck out on everyone he brought in except Horvath. Next year he would need to hit a home run on each recruit to be competitive in the MWC. I just don’t see that happening. If he only gets a couple of good recruits, we will still probably finish worst than this year. It would be very difficult to bring in 4 or 5 players that are all legit starting MWC caliber players.

Hope I’m wrong, but we could be in for some mediocre basketball for the next couple of years.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by ineptimusprime » March 15th, 2022, 10:41 pm

Aggiebigtime wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:35 pm
I’m worried we might have hired the wrong coach. I will give him a couple of years, but I don’t see him getting this turned around soon. He inherited a very mediocre team and really struck out on everyone he brought in except Horvath. Next year he would need to hit a home run on each recruit to be competitive in the MWC. I just don’t see that happening. If he only gets a couple of good recruits, we will still probably finish worst than this year. It would be very difficult to bring in 4 or 5 players that are all legit starting MWC caliber players.

Hope I’m wrong, but we could be in for some mediocre basketball for the next couple of years.
Gonna take decisive action and a huge set of balls to counsel half the team out AND then some huge recruiting chops to not be complete dog 💩 next year.

It is what it is, and we’ll live with it no matter what. I’m not sure Odom is the guy either, but he may be. I think what happens in the next two months may honestly make or break his coaching career.
Last edited by ineptimusprime on March 15th, 2022, 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by smfdaggie » March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm

Couldn't disagree more ABT. I think Odom will end up being a very good hire. This team was in almost every single game and never once quit. If kids didn't believe in Odom they would have tanked it in January.
Last edited by smfdaggie on March 15th, 2022, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by utaggies » March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm

Aggiebigtime wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:35 pm
I’m worried we might have hired the wrong coach. I will give him a couple of years, but I don’t see him getting this turned around soon. He inherited a very mediocre team and really struck out on everyone he brought in except Horvath. Next year he would need to hit a home run on each recruit to be competitive in the MWC. I just don’t see that happening. If he only gets a couple of good recruits, we will still probably finish worst than this year. It would be very difficult to bring in 4 or 5 players that are all legit starting MWC caliber players.

Hope I’m wrong, but we could be in for some mediocre basketball for the next couple of years.
It’s hard to see it any other way. We finished 7th in the conference this year. Right now we are on track to finish only ahead of SJS and possibly the AFA. There is not one returning player who would garner honorable mention consideration in the all-conference selections.
Last edited by utaggies on March 15th, 2022, 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by smfdaggie » March 15th, 2022, 10:45 pm

If a couple of you are around sharp objects, just go someplace and relax. It will be ok. :lol:



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Re: Rough final game

Post by ineptimusprime » March 15th, 2022, 10:47 pm

smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:45 pm
If a couple of you are around sharp objects, just go someplace and relax. It will be ok. :lol:
Not that upset about the outcome tonight. I am worried about Odom being able to recruit the type of players we need to win here.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by utaggies » March 15th, 2022, 10:48 pm

smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Couldn't disagree more ABT. I think Odom will end up being a very good hire. This team was in almost every single game and never once quit. If kids didn't believe in Odom they would have tanked it in January.
Odom’s abysmal record in close games has not instilled confidence in me. You can only get mileage for so long on coaching a #16 seed to a win over a #1 seed. He gets a pass for two more years to show that he can field a team that is much better than .500 in the conference. After that the honeymoon is over.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by smfdaggie » March 15th, 2022, 10:52 pm

I am pretty sure Odom isn't concerned about living up to a bunch of guys on a forum who have exactly zero to do with whether he stays or goes. JMO



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Re: Rough final game

Post by utaggies » March 15th, 2022, 11:02 pm

smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:52 pm
I am pretty sure Odom isn't concerned about living up to a bunch of guys on a forum who have exactly zero to do with whether he stays or goes. JMO
No, he shouldn’t worry about a bunch of posters on a message board but he most certainly should worry about his job security if he continues fielding a .500 team that finishes 7th in the conference. The expectations of Aggie fans are far different than SJS fans. Ask Tim Duryea about that.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by Intermeddler » March 15th, 2022, 11:04 pm

smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Couldn't disagree more ABT. I think Odom will end up being a very good hire. This team was in almost every single game and never once quit. If kids didn't believe in Odom they would have tanked it in January.
I think he’s a good coach but playing hard and not quitting doesn’t really mean much if you’re less talented than your opponent on a consistent basis, as we learned this year. And, as it stands, we’re much more likely to be less talented next year.

He needs to prove he’s a good recruiter. Craig wasn’t really but inherited some good players and struck gold on Queta. Odom inherited a much worse roster. Question is how much he can upgrade it.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by Aggiebigtime » March 15th, 2022, 11:06 pm

smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:52 pm
I am pretty sure Odom isn't concerned about living up to a bunch of guys on a forum who have exactly zero to do with whether he stays or goes. JMO
I’m guessing if he can’t put a competitive team on the court and a “ bunch of fans” stop showing up then he would be smart to start being concerned. I hope he does well, but I also think he has a really tough job to get this team competitive in the next couple of years. It is a tough job because he didn’t inherit much from the last coaching staff.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » March 15th, 2022, 11:34 pm

Aggiebigtime wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 11:06 pm
smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:52 pm
I am pretty sure Odom isn't concerned about living up to a bunch of guys on a forum who have exactly zero to do with whether he stays or goes. JMO
I’m guessing if he can’t put a competitive team on the court and a “ bunch of fans” stop showing up then he would be smart to start being concerned. I hope he does well, but I also think he has a really tough job to get this team competitive in the next couple of years. It is a tough job because he didn’t inherit much from the last coaching staff.
Yeah I believe in Odom, but yeah it isnt just a bunch of fans on a message board. Duryea was fired for a season like this one where he went 8-10 in the MW and finished 7th. Odom certainly isnt on the hot seat now and deserves time to build his program, but things will obviously have to get better.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by smfdaggie » March 15th, 2022, 11:59 pm

Duryea got fired because he had that record when the MWC was crap and lucky to get 2 teams in the dance. Want to see a crap team go look at TL Plain and his group. :bangwall: Odom didn't have a ton of time to get his recruits or even know what he had here to go get other players. I feel not knowing what he had and giving some of these kids the benefit of the doubt has hurt him. I agree that things need to get better, and also agree that Odom deserves at least a couple more seasons to do what he needs to in order to get us back to the top of the MWC. I just find it crazy for so many to jump on here all season long and complain in his first season. Have some faith that we hired the right guy.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by ineptimusprime » March 16th, 2022, 12:16 am

smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 11:59 pm
Duryea got fired because he had that record when the MWC was crap and lucky to get 2 teams in the dance. Want to see a crap team go look at TL Plain and his group. :bangwall: Odom didn't have a ton of time to get his recruits or even know what he had here to go get other players. I feel not knowing what he had and giving some of these kids the benefit of the doubt has hurt him. I agree that things need to get better, and also agree that Odom deserves at least a couple more seasons to do what he needs to in order to get us back to the top of the MWC. I just find it crazy for so many to jump on here all season long and complain in his first season. Have some faith that we hired the right guy.
Is anyone calling for Odom’s head? Odom is obviously a great coach. It’s no fluke he is the only coach of a 16 seed to ever beat a 1 seed.

He took this ramshackle, island of misfit toys roster and won a preseason tournament, beat an NIT P5 school, beat multiple NCAA tourney teams, and got us an NIT bid. He had a starting wing that basically couldn’t play all season. It was not a perfect coaching job, but totally acceptable for year one under the circumstances.

I will give him a pass on the last two recruiting cycles. He came in really late in the cycle after last season and had two players ready to follow him from UMBC. He whiffed on Berg (who I didn’t like anyway) and the kid who ended up at SMC (who I kind of liked) in the early cycle, but had really minimal scholarships to commit to using and we ended up using what was available on Falslev, who I will guess will end up having a college career that’s better than Berg or the St. Mary’s guy.

But now it’s time to go to work and get a major haul from the portal or JC ranks. Maybe pull out all the stops to land Keba Keita (promise him the moon). I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say this is the biggest offseason of Odom’s career. There’s a genuine possibility it determines his entire career trajectory.

Will be an interesting few months.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by Agezzz » March 16th, 2022, 9:48 am

ineptimusprime wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:47 pm
smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:45 pm
If a couple of you are around sharp objects, just go someplace and relax. It will be ok. :lol:
Not that upset about the outcome tonight. I am worried about Odom being able to recruit the type of players we need to win here.
You must not see your comments on Chat, if you were not worried about the outcome tonight. You made most of the negative comments. LOL :headscratch: I know....it's chat. Go Aggies!! Just having some fun at your expense as I'm not a chat guy.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by TrueAG » March 16th, 2022, 9:59 am

I'm not worried about Odom's coaching, he took a deeply flawed team to the NIT. His bones will be on recruiting. We have a ton of holes. Fortunately the right 2-3 players can cover a lot in basketball. This team was a Sam Merrill away from being top 4 and a tourney team. Not having a star/closer lost us a ton of games.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by ineptimusprime » March 16th, 2022, 10:01 am

Agezzz wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 9:48 am
ineptimusprime wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:47 pm
smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:45 pm
If a couple of you are around sharp objects, just go someplace and relax. It will be ok. :lol:
Not that upset about the outcome tonight. I am worried about Odom being able to recruit the type of players we need to win here.
You must not see your comments on Chat, if you were not worried about the outcome tonight. You made most of the negative comments. LOL :headscratch: I know....it's chat. Go Aggies!! Just having some fun at your expense as I'm not a chat guy.
As you said — it’s chat :joking:.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by ineptimusprime » March 16th, 2022, 10:02 am

TrueAG wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 9:59 am
I'm not worried about Odom's coaching, he took a deeply flawed team to the NIT. His bones will be on recruiting. We have a ton of holes. Fortunately the right 2-3 players can cover a lot in basketball. This team was a Sam Merrill away from being top 4 and a tourney team. Not having a star/closer lost us a ton of games.
This team was a healthy Brock Miller (or virtually any other starting 2 guard) and a competent center away from being a bubble team.

Not having Brock playable meant too much Ashworth and Jones on the floor together, which is a combo that just didn’t work for us at all.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by FloridaAggie13 » March 16th, 2022, 10:06 am

ineptimusprime wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 10:02 am
TrueAG wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 9:59 am
I'm not worried about Odom's coaching, he took a deeply flawed team to the NIT. His bones will be on recruiting. We have a ton of holes. Fortunately the right 2-3 players can cover a lot in basketball. This team was a Sam Merrill away from being top 4 and a tourney team. Not having a star/closer lost us a ton of games.
This team was a healthy Brock Miller (or virtually any other starting 2 guard) and a competent center away from being a bubble team.

Not having Brock playable meant too much Ashworth and Jones on the floor together, which is a combo that just didn’t work for us at all.
A healthy Brock Miller wasn't the answer either.

We needed a closer. The guy who walks into a party and leaves ten minutes later with someone else's girlfriend.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by Bank Shot » March 16th, 2022, 10:18 am

ineptimusprime wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 10:02 am
TrueAG wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 9:59 am
I'm not worried about Odom's coaching, he took a deeply flawed team to the NIT. His bones will be on recruiting. We have a ton of holes. Fortunately the right 2-3 players can cover a lot in basketball. This team was a Sam Merrill away from being top 4 and a tourney team. Not having a star/closer lost us a ton of games.
This team was a healthy Brock Miller (or virtually any other starting 2 guard) and a competent center away from being a bubble team.

Not having Brock playable meant too much Ashworth and Jones on the floor together, which is a combo that just didn’t work for us at all.
Whether it's any combination of Jones/Ash/Shulga it translate into sub-MWC defense from our guards. None of them can handle average MWC guards, let alone the likes of elite guards like Sherfield, Hamilton, etc. One player that would have helped immensely improving our league record was Marco Anthony.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by Bluestar » March 16th, 2022, 10:35 am

Several things concern me, but the coaching adjustments made at half time were obviously better for Oregon. Secondly, our use of timeouts to stop the bleeding and reset the guys has been questionable all year. The athleticism was a glaring difference last night. It use to be that the spectrum crowd could will the team to win, but that is not the case any more. I did see a confident competitive fire in Ashworth when he made the threes in the first half, but the way we came out and started the second half seemed lethargic, intimidated, and like we had not idea or confidence with what we were doing. Most of the shots in the second half were NOT EVEN CLOSE. I can understand shots being short or long but so far off to the right or left just seemed like there was lack of concentration or focus. The second half was very tough to watch.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by treesap32 » March 16th, 2022, 10:38 am

Intermeddler wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 11:04 pm
smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Couldn't disagree more ABT. I think Odom will end up being a very good hire. This team was in almost every single game and never once quit. If kids didn't believe in Odom they would have tanked it in January.
I think he’s a good coach but playing hard and not quitting doesn’t really mean much if you’re less talented than your opponent on a consistent basis, as we learned this year. And, as it stands, we’re much more likely to be less talented next year.

He needs to prove he’s a good recruiter. Craig wasn’t really but inherited some good players and struck gold on Queta. Odom inherited a much worse roster. Question is how much he can upgrade it.
Bringing in Queta alone should deter people from saying Craig Smith wasn't a good recruiter. Craig came in late in the game in year one and and also added Marco Anthony, a huge transfer from a reigning national champion P5 team. I remember him hitting the recruiting trail hard right from the get-go to make that happen. He also brought in Rollie Worster, Max Shulga, Cade Potter, and Zapala. It's yet to be seen if Potter and Zapala work out, but there is some potential there. But it baffles me that people say Queta "fell into his lap" and discount his other recruits. I just don't get it. Queta was a generational talent, early entry NBA draft pick, the highest draft pick we've had in my lifetime.

With regard to Odom, it's yet to be seen what kind of recruiter he is. He brought his two guys from UMBC (Horvath / Eytle-Rock) and also brought in Zee Hamoda who looks promising. He also got Rylan Jones, Norbert Thellisen, and Mason Falslev to flip their commitments from the U which is no small feat given how much I would think people would want to play for Coach Smith. Overall I would say his quick turnaround recruiting job in year 1 was decent. He will need to add some pieces this coming year or we are in trouble. I'm guessing Horvath, Bean, Miller, and Eytle-Rock are gonzo...

Recruiting isn't an exact science. You can only have so many players that contribute on your roster. The rest will seem like "busts". At least for a year or two until some of them can grow into their roles. Now, if you're turning over 75% of your roster every year and flushing away recruits that clearly won't work out then that's one thing. But we haven't seen that for a few years here at Utah State.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by SLB » March 16th, 2022, 11:11 am

Personally, I would be good with with a starting lineup of Ashworth/Jones, Shulga, Zee, Bairstow, and with a true 5 next season. Zee and Bairstow have length and speed to make plays while Shulga and Jones/Ashworth have skills that can be developed. I do like the fact that we are going to have 2 guards coming in that are 6'4" since the size became a serious issue when we had Jones and Ashworth out there at the same time.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by smfdaggie » March 16th, 2022, 11:28 am

Regardless of who the 5 would be, that lineup would finish last in the MWC. We need some guys who can come in and start from day one and be difference makers. We don't need starters who need to be "developed" or we will be in trouble. I think all of those guys along with some incoming talent can make a good team. We need 5-6 new players.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by Intermeddler » March 16th, 2022, 11:33 am

treesap32 wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 10:38 am
Intermeddler wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 11:04 pm
smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Couldn't disagree more ABT. I think Odom will end up being a very good hire. This team was in almost every single game and never once quit. If kids didn't believe in Odom they would have tanked it in January.
I think he’s a good coach but playing hard and not quitting doesn’t really mean much if you’re less talented than your opponent on a consistent basis, as we learned this year. And, as it stands, we’re much more likely to be less talented next year.

He needs to prove he’s a good recruiter. Craig wasn’t really but inherited some good players and struck gold on Queta. Odom inherited a much worse roster. Question is how much he can upgrade it.
Bringing in Queta alone should deter people from saying Craig Smith wasn't a good recruiter. Craig came in late in the game in year one and and also added Marco Anthony, a huge transfer from a reigning national champion P5 team. I remember him hitting the recruiting trail hard right from the get-go to make that happen. He also brought in Rollie Worster, Max Shulga, Cade Potter, and Zapala. It's yet to be seen if Potter and Zapala work out, but there is some potential there. But it baffles me that people say Queta "fell into his lap" and discount his other recruits. I just don't get it. Queta was a generational talent, early entry NBA draft pick, the highest draft pick we've had in my lifetime.

With regard to Odom, it's yet to be seen what kind of recruiter he is. He brought his two guys from UMBC (Horvath / Eytle-Rock) and also brought in Zee Hamoda who looks promising. He also got Rylan Jones, Norbert Thellisen, and Mason Falslev to flip their commitments from the U which is no small feat given how much I would think people would want to play for Coach Smith. Overall I would say his quick turnaround recruiting job in year 1 was decent. He will need to add some pieces this coming year or we are in trouble. I'm guessing Horvath, Bean, Miller, and Eytle-Rock are gonzo...

Recruiting isn't an exact science. You can only have so many players that contribute on your roster. The rest will seem like "busts". At least for a year or two until some of them can grow into their roles. Now, if you're turning over 75% of your roster every year and flushing away recruits that clearly won't work out then that's one thing. But we haven't seen that for a few years here at Utah State.
I never said he fell into his lap. They worked hard for him, but who else was after him? How much did having Brito benefit? Who else did Craig sign that was very good for us? Marco was solid. Rollie was ok. But the roster we have now reflects the fruits of his recruiting. I am really shocked anyone thinks he is a good recruiter. I mean you cite Potter and Zapala? I guess they have potential but that is flimsy argument.

I don't think you can really argue that the talent level on this team hasn't steadily declined with each passing year. Who is responsible for that? The roster this year and next should have guys Craig recruited as its foundation and this year it was primarily Bean and the UMBC guys he didn't recruit and next year it is who exactly? Shulga, Bairstow, and Zapala? If those guys are your key guys your team is terrible.

Signing a single generational guy in three classes and virtually no other sustained contributor does not make you a good recruiter.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by Bank Shot » March 16th, 2022, 11:36 am

That big better be Queta because that team is a defensive black hole and nothing there to out-score anyone. Bairstow is the only one that you could dream of averaging 10+ ppg. Everyone else is more likely to have a Jones goose egg like last night than to fill a stat sheet.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by FloridaAggie13 » March 16th, 2022, 1:01 pm

There wasn't much left in the cupboard for Odom and his staff; plus, I would imagine they would "assume" that the players already here were at least MWC quality. After all, Odom and company were taking over a team with three consecutive NCAA's and conference champion two of the previous three years. I'm sure they didn't think a major shakeup was in order.

Now they've had a year to see what type of player they need but it may take two recruiting classes before we see real fruit. It sucks to say, but we'll have to be patient because if there is a Sam Merrill in the portal, he's trying to move up to a P5. We most likely aren't going to bring in a two or a three who can give us 17pts every night.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by utaggies » March 16th, 2022, 1:14 pm

SLB wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 11:11 am
Personally, I would be good with with a starting lineup of Ashworth/Jones, Shulga, Zee, Bairstow, and with a true 5 next season. Zee and Bairstow have length and speed to make plays while Shulga and Jones/Ashworth have skills that can be developed. I do like the fact that we are going to have 2 guards coming in that are 6'4" since the size became a serious issue when we had Jones and Ashworth out there at the same time.
If that’s our starting line up next year we will be looking up to every team in the conference except the AFA and SJS.

We had two “true” centers this year in Dorius (7’0” and 240) and Zapala (6’11” and 240). What you ment to say was “competent” centers.

If we are relying upon Jones next year we’ve got a problem. While Ashworth is undersized and is a defensive liability he has shown the ability to shoot. Jones has shown that he is neither a defensive or offensive asset. RJ is 6’4” and was not a difference maker on the team. He should have been. Hopefully our bigger guards next year will be able to dribble to the basket and finish unlike RJ.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by FloridaAggie13 » March 16th, 2022, 2:03 pm

I don't think Ashworth or Jones are the answer at PG right now. Ashworth has four good games, then disappears for two weeks. He was nowhere to be found last week in Las Vegas and then is bombs away against Oregon.

Jones shows he can get into the lane but if he isn't willing to take the 12 footer then the D' will never leave their man and he ends up stuck in the lane.

Both are/were critically needed however, because we didn't have any other true ball handlers. I think they'd serve better as back ups.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by Intermeddler » March 16th, 2022, 2:05 pm

utaggies wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 1:14 pm
SLB wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 11:11 am
Personally, I would be good with with a starting lineup of Ashworth/Jones, Shulga, Zee, Bairstow, and with a true 5 next season. Zee and Bairstow have length and speed to make plays while Shulga and Jones/Ashworth have skills that can be developed. I do like the fact that we are going to have 2 guards coming in that are 6'4" since the size became a serious issue when we had Jones and Ashworth out there at the same time.
If that’s our starting line up next year we will be looking up to every team in the conference except the AFA and SJS.

We had two “true” centers this year in Dorius (7’0” and 240) and Zapala (6’11” and 240). What you ment to say was “competent” centers.

If we are relying upon Jones next year we’ve got a problem. While Ashworth is undersized and is a defensive liability he has shown the ability to shoot. Jones has shown that he is neither a defensive or offensive asset. RJ is 6’4” and was not a difference maker on the team. He should have been. Hopefully our bigger guards next year will be able to dribble to the basket and finish unlike RJ.
Not even sure that’s an above average second unit honestly.



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Re: Rough final game

Post by treesap32 » March 16th, 2022, 7:07 pm

Intermeddler wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 11:33 am
treesap32 wrote:
March 16th, 2022, 10:38 am
Intermeddler wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 11:04 pm
smfdaggie wrote:
March 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm
Couldn't disagree more ABT. I think Odom will end up being a very good hire. This team was in almost every single game and never once quit. If kids didn't believe in Odom they would have tanked it in January.
I think he’s a good coach but playing hard and not quitting doesn’t really mean much if you’re less talented than your opponent on a consistent basis, as we learned this year. And, as it stands, we’re much more likely to be less talented next year.

He needs to prove he’s a good recruiter. Craig wasn’t really but inherited some good players and struck gold on Queta. Odom inherited a much worse roster. Question is how much he can upgrade it.
Bringing in Queta alone should deter people from saying Craig Smith wasn't a good recruiter. Craig came in late in the game in year one and and also added Marco Anthony, a huge transfer from a reigning national champion P5 team. I remember him hitting the recruiting trail hard right from the get-go to make that happen. He also brought in Rollie Worster, Max Shulga, Cade Potter, and Zapala. It's yet to be seen if Potter and Zapala work out, but there is some potential there. But it baffles me that people say Queta "fell into his lap" and discount his other recruits. I just don't get it. Queta was a generational talent, early entry NBA draft pick, the highest draft pick we've had in my lifetime.

With regard to Odom, it's yet to be seen what kind of recruiter he is. He brought his two guys from UMBC (Horvath / Eytle-Rock) and also brought in Zee Hamoda who looks promising. He also got Rylan Jones, Norbert Thellisen, and Mason Falslev to flip their commitments from the U which is no small feat given how much I would think people would want to play for Coach Smith. Overall I would say his quick turnaround recruiting job in year 1 was decent. He will need to add some pieces this coming year or we are in trouble. I'm guessing Horvath, Bean, Miller, and Eytle-Rock are gonzo...

Recruiting isn't an exact science. You can only have so many players that contribute on your roster. The rest will seem like "busts". At least for a year or two until some of them can grow into their roles. Now, if you're turning over 75% of your roster every year and flushing away recruits that clearly won't work out then that's one thing. But we haven't seen that for a few years here at Utah State.
I never said he fell into his lap. They worked hard for him, but who else was after him? How much did having Brito benefit? Who else did Craig sign that was very good for us? Marco was solid. Rollie was ok. But the roster we have now reflects the fruits of his recruiting. I am really shocked anyone thinks he is a good recruiter. I mean you cite Potter and Zapala? I guess they have potential but that is flimsy argument.

I don't think you can really argue that the talent level on this team hasn't steadily declined with each passing year. Who is responsible for that? The roster this year and next should have guys Craig recruited as its foundation and this year it was primarily Bean and the UMBC guys he didn't recruit and next year it is who exactly? Shulga, Bairstow, and Zapala? If those guys are your key guys your team is terrible.

Signing a single generational guy in three classes and virtually no other sustained contributor does not make you a good recruiter.
I wasn't meaning to infer that you said Queta fell into Craig's lap. Others have said that. I just saw your post and remembered all the other similar posts I have seen on here that I disagree with. I think Smith was a good recruiter. Not great, but not bad either. He was a good enough recruiter to get us dancing all three years he was here and brought us our first two MWC Championships including a regular season title as well. That's good enough for me.

I guess people expect that we will have 4 or 5 starters on our team who are all-league level players, which would basically put us in the top 10-15 in the nation every season. That's not reasonable. Every once in a while we may get close to that, but not very often. I'm happy with bringing in one or two NBA-level players (which never happened until Smith), a league MVP or runner up candidate (we've had a few of these including every year with Smith), and other guys who can compete to win freshman of the year, newcomer of the year, or defensive player of the year (had several with Smith). You're not going to hit a home run with every recruit, and if you do, several will transfer to places they can get more playing time and utilize their talents.

But like I said in my post, Odom has some work to do. Bean was really the only guy on our team who was all-league capable and he's surely gone. Let's see what Odom can do this offseason. I'm sure he's working hard. The fact that he's not going out on twitter and revealing all his targets doesn't mean there aren't any. He'd be a complete fool to slack right now when his career is on the line. I guarantee he's working hard at next year's class. And if by some chance he isn't... well, he won't be around very long.
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Re: Rough final game

Post by ineptimusprime » March 16th, 2022, 8:26 pm

Just to clear something up — no one expects Odom to be on Twitter naming the prospects we are contacting.

What people expect to see on Twitter is recruits themselves listing USU as one of their schools and/or reporting to outlets covering recruiting that USU has contacted them.

There are only a few explanations for why this isn’t happening: (1) we haven’t really started contacting anyone in earnest; (2) we are contacting guys, but none of them are interested enough in USU even to mention that we have contacted them; (3) the guys we are recruiting aren’t on Twitter or haven’t been contacted by any outlets that cover recruiting on Twitter.

None of these options is particularly good, but (2) and (3) are terrifying because they suggest we aren’t getting reciprocal interest from good players and are recruiting true diamonds in the rough types that aren’t getting coverage on Twitter. Option (1) is the least terrifying, but does suggest we are probably being overly choosy at best or a bit lazy at worst.

Now I’ll wait for someone to tell me how wrong I have this.



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