Craig Smith did us a favor

SLB · Post by **SLB** » April 2nd, 2021, 3:57 pm

He maxed out his buyout then sign with Utah. We are a big mid-major name with extra money.

bill.george · Post by **bill.george** » April 2nd, 2021, 5:42 pm

No Hartwell did us a favor, Craig negotiated poorly. Added more money to his buyout and for a raise that was less than what he upped his salary for.

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SLB · Post by **SLB** » April 2nd, 2021, 5:47 pm

bill.george wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 5:42 pm
No Hartwell did us a favor, Craig negotiated poorly. Added more money to his buyout and for a raise that was less than what he upped his salary for.

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Smith made the decision to sign that extension then sign with Utah.

USU73 · Post by **USU73** » April 2nd, 2021, 5:58 pm

Sure did and Hartwell stuck the bigger buyout in it. Good for Hartwell and us Aggies!

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ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm

The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.

USU73 · Post by **USU73** » April 2nd, 2021, 9:48 pm

ViAggie wrote:The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.

Great idea ViAggie!

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Post by **treesap32** » April 3rd, 2021, 10:29 am

Craig didn't do us any favors. He negotiated a decrease in the buyout from 75% of the remaining salary to 30% of the remaining salary in 2019. Then in 2020 he negotiated it down to 25% of the remaining salary. Sure, he added a couple years to the contract, but going from 75% of the salary to 25% of the salary the buyout went down significantly (i.e. the new buyout was less than half of the original).

Here's a breakdown:

2018 - Buyout is $2,625,000 (75% of his $3,500,000 deal)
2019 - Buyout negotiated down to $1,200,000 (30% of $4,000,000 remaining on deal)
2020 - Buyout negotiated to $1,110,935.750 (25% of $4,443,750 remaining on deal)
- Note: this was signed approximately 3/4 of the way through contract year 3, so I calculated remaining salary from date signed
2021 - Buyout automatically increased to $1,293,750 (25% of $5,175,00 remaining on contract as contract year was automatically extended 1 season by getting an invite to the NCAA Tournament)

I posted an article with a breakdown of the contract details as well as Craig's original contract and both amendments available for download here:

https://www.usustats.com/blog/2021/03/1 ... extension/

The Utah news stations erroneously assumed there was a $1.1 million buyout because they didn't calculate in the automatic extension Craig achieved by getting into the dance. The buyout when he signed with Utah was just short of $1.3 million.

When I requested the contract amendments and realized that Smith had negotiated a decreased buyout percentage twice in consecutive years, I realized that the writing was on the wall that he was looking to move up and out. Can't really blame him, though I really wished he would've stayed. He was easily my favorite coach we've ever had.

Carry on.

USU73 · Post by **USU73** » April 3rd, 2021, 11:29 am

Thanks

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Post by **aggies22** » April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.

Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.

Post by **aggies22** » April 3rd, 2021, 11:53 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 10:29 am
Craig didn't do us any favors. He negotiated a decrease in the buyout from 75% of the remaining salary to 30% of the remaining salary in 2019. Then in 2020 he negotiated it down to 25% of the remaining salary. Sure, he added a couple years to the contract, but going from 75% of the salary to 25% of the salary the buyout went down significantly (i.e. the new buyout was less than half of the original).

Here's a breakdown:

2018 - Buyout is $2,625,000 (75% of his $3,500,000 deal)
2019 - Buyout negotiated down to $1,200,000 (30% of $4,000,000 remaining on deal)
2020 - Buyout negotiated to $1,110,935.750 (25% of $4,443,750 remaining on deal)
- Note: this was signed approximately 3/4 of the way through contract year 3, so I calculated remaining salary from date signed
2021 - Buyout automatically increased to $1,293,750 (25% of $5,175,00 remaining on contract as contract year was automatically extended 1 season by getting an invite to the NCAA Tournament)

I posted an article with a breakdown of the contract details as well as Craig's original contract and both amendments available for download here:

https://www.usustats.com/blog/2021/03/1 ... extension/

The Utah news stations erroneously assumed there was a $1.1 million buyout because they didn't calculate in the automatic extension Craig achieved by getting into the dance. The buyout when he signed with Utah was just short of $1.3 million.

When I requested the contract amendments and realized that Smith had negotiated a decreased buyout percentage twice in consecutive years, I realized that the writing was on the wall that he was looking to move up and out. Can't really blame him, though I really wished he would've stayed. He was easily my favorite coach we've ever had.

Carry on.

Great breakdown my Aggie brother!

oleblu111 · Post by **oleblu111** » April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.

Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.

Post by **ProvoAggie** » April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.

Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » April 3rd, 2021, 1:08 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.

We couldn't and shouldn't have Utah be the ONLY school where the buyout is raised, but we can have the buyout dependant on where. Like that it's only 5 or 10 percent for the ACC or Big Ten, but 25 percent for the Big 12, and 50 or 75 percent for anywhere else. Or allow even just 3 or 5 or 8 schools with the low penalty whie every other school has a higher penalty. When Urban Meyer was at Utah, his contract had a clause that he could leave for Michigan, Ohio State or Notre Dame without penalty, but Florida had to pay a buyout that Notre Dame would not have had to.

oleblu111 · Post by **oleblu111** » April 3rd, 2021, 1:32 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.

I did not say that it had not been done, but to add it to a existing contract can be a tough sale. If I had been Smith's agent USU would have got a no to that deal, With dropping the percentage buyout it should have been clear he was leaving thus that contract would have never been signed. That clause needs to be added to the first contract when the coach is more inclined to sign a deal.

Post by **aggies22** » April 3rd, 2021, 1:41 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 1:32 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.
I did not say that it had not been done, but to add it to a existing contract can be a tough sale. If I had been Smith's agent USU would have got a no to that deal, With dropping the percentage buyout it should have been clear he was leaving thus that contract would have never been signed. That clause needs to be added to the first contract when the coach is more inclined to sign a deal.

Exactly. I didn't say it should have been added. The clause is something that should have become common practice 20 years ago.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » April 3rd, 2021, 1:42 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.

Sure they would. You honestly think Ryan Odom would turn down the USU job if we made it a high buyout if he left to byu or utah? This is pretty rare territory to have a coach leave us for the enemy. It literally has never happened directly like this. Ladell Anderson did coach the enemy after USU, but that wasn't until 11 years later.

But yes it should be in the initial contract upon taking the job.

Slim80 · Post by **Slim80** » April 3rd, 2021, 1:57 pm

:

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.

The chances our next head coach is a card carrying LDS member isn’t very good so ybu can go suck it.

Aggieiester · Post by **Aggieiester** » April 3rd, 2021, 2:07 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.

I think there is a huge difference between Texas Tech/Beard and USU's situation. Beard's buyout to Texas is 4 million on a contract where he was making 5 million a year. Beard's new contract is 35 million. Does USU really have enough room to ask for a bunch of penalties when negotiating a contract? A $5 million penalty for going to an instate school is just silly.

I'd like to see a contract where the commitment on both sides are similar. If they buyout is $2 million for the coach then it should be $2 million for the school.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » April 3rd, 2021, 2:11 pm

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:07 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.
I think there is a huge difference between Texas Tech/Beard and USU's situation. Beard's buyout to Texas is 4 million on a contract where he was making 5 million a year. Beard's new contract is 35 million. Does USU really have enough room to ask for a bunch of penalties when negotiating a contract? A $5 million penalty for going to an instate school is just silly.

I'd like to see a contract where the commitment on both sides are similar. If they buyout is $2 million for the coach then it should be $2 million for the school.

You really think there would be coaches that would not agree to that? Maybe if we hired a guy like Chris Burgess who played at Utah and probably would want to coach there. I highly doubt guys like Konkol or Odom would be all set to take the USU job, but would be upset about a big buyout for the Utah job. This is an extremely rare thing that happens. I don't think it has ever happened where an Aggie basketball or football coach left directly to coach the enemy. There should absolutely be a rivalry clause going forward. Come to USU, get wins and leave for Minnesota, Iowa State or Wisconsin all day long. We'll wish you well! Just don't betray us to the enemy like Craig Smith did otherwise we better be getting serious money out of it.

Slim80 · Post by **Slim80** » April 3rd, 2021, 2:18 pm

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:07 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.
I think there is a huge difference between Texas Tech/Beard and USU's situation. Beard's buyout to Texas is 4 million on a contract where he was making 5 million a year. Beard's new contract is 35 million. Does USU really have enough room to ask for a bunch of penalties when negotiating a contract? A $5 million penalty for going to an instate school is just silly.

I'd like to see a contract where the commitment on both sides are similar. If they buyout is $2 million for the coach then it should be $2 million for the school.

No it isn’t. Why do you want to make it easier for your DIRECT competition to succeed and be better? There’s non-compete clauses signed all the time in the professional world for employment. It’s done for a reason.

Aggieiester · Post by **Aggieiester** » April 3rd, 2021, 2:39 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:11 pm

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:07 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.
I think there is a huge difference between Texas Tech/Beard and USU's situation. Beard's buyout to Texas is 4 million on a contract where he was making 5 million a year. Beard's new contract is 35 million. Does USU really have enough room to ask for a bunch of penalties when negotiating a contract? A $5 million penalty for going to an instate school is just silly.

I'd like to see a contract where the commitment on both sides are similar. If they buyout is $2 million for the coach then it should be $2 million for the school.
You really think there would be coaches that would not agree to that? Maybe if we hired a guy like Chris Burgess who played at Utah and probably would want to coach there. I highly doubt guys like Konkol or Odom would be all set to take the USU job, but would be upset about a big buyout for the Utah job. This is an extremely rare thing that happens. I don't think it has ever happened where an Aggie basketball or football coach left directly to coach the enemy. There should absolutely be a rivalry clause going forward. Come to USU, get wins and leave for Minnesota, Iowa State or Wisconsin all day long. We'll wish you well! Just don't betray us to the enemy like Craig Smith did otherwise we better be getting serious money out of it.

If it's extremely rare then why do you bother adding a butthurt little brother clause in a contract? If Chris Beard's buyout clause is 4 million for a 35 million dollar contract, how much is reasonable rivalry penalty for a contract at USU that will be in the 3.5 million to 4.5 million dollar range?

aggietime · Post by **aggietime** » April 3rd, 2021, 5:35 pm

Some people are getting way too tied up on the $5 million number thrown out earlier in this thread. The idea is a number (double what the regular buyout is?) that is higher for an instate or conference school. For Craig Smith and Utah, double the normal buyout would have meant $2.6 million. Utah would still have paid it, but USU would be in a much stronger position on the next hire. It makes sense and I doubt would discourage any coaches from taking the job.

To the OP, Craig Smith absolutely did us no favors (thanks for the breakdown treesap). His contract updates adjusted his buyout down because he had a ton of leverage. The man knew he wouldn't be at USU forever and his contracts reflect that. I don't blame him, but let's not pretend he did USU a solid. On the other hand, if he'd had 3-4 losing seasons after this year we would have run him out of town. Such is life in major college athletics.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » April 3rd, 2021, 5:38 pm

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:39 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:11 pm

Aggieiester wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 2:07 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:49 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 12:44 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
April 3rd, 2021, 11:51 am

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.
Myself and my good friend USUBlue have also discussed this. He suggested an in-state buyout of 5 million to protect us against having our coaches poached. I agree with him.
Of course any agent that has a hot client would refuse that contract, and you would be left with a unhappy coach that will be gone very soon.
Not necessarily. Beard's contract at Texas Tech had a clause that doubled the buyout if he stayed in conference. It didn't stop him from being poached by a conference foe but there is precedent for clauses that increase the buyout for leaving to certain schools. Just put in there that if they want to leave to a conference foe or in-state school that the buyout is double. 99% of times when a coach is leaving they wouldn't be going to one of those schools anyway.
I think there is a huge difference between Texas Tech/Beard and USU's situation. Beard's buyout to Texas is 4 million on a contract where he was making 5 million a year. Beard's new contract is 35 million. Does USU really have enough room to ask for a bunch of penalties when negotiating a contract? A $5 million penalty for going to an instate school is just silly.

I'd like to see a contract where the commitment on both sides are similar. If they buyout is $2 million for the coach then it should be $2 million for the school.
You really think there would be coaches that would not agree to that? Maybe if we hired a guy like Chris Burgess who played at Utah and probably would want to coach there. I highly doubt guys like Konkol or Odom would be all set to take the USU job, but would be upset about a big buyout for the Utah job. This is an extremely rare thing that happens. I don't think it has ever happened where an Aggie basketball or football coach left directly to coach the enemy. There should absolutely be a rivalry clause going forward. Come to USU, get wins and leave for Minnesota, Iowa State or Wisconsin all day long. We'll wish you well! Just don't betray us to the enemy like Craig Smith did otherwise we better be getting serious money out of it.
If it's extremely rare then why do you bother adding a butthurt little brother clause in a contract? If Chris Beard's buyout clause is 4 million for a 35 million dollar contract, how much is reasonable rivalry penalty for a contract at USU that will be in the 3.5 million to 4.5 million dollar range?

It isn't butthurt at all. Why should the enemy get to take our coach without penalty? Seems like a smart thing to do. I don't know the exact amount it should be, but I'm fine with it being much higher to go to utah than to others. byu isn't a real threat to steal a coach unless we hire a Mormon.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » April 3rd, 2021, 5:49 pm

I'd love to see a clause increasing the buyout to go to another Utah school or a MWC school.

NowhereLandAggie · Post by **NowhereLandAggie** » April 4th, 2021, 2:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑
April 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
The contract for the next coach should have a buy-out clause that doubles if Utah tries to hire him. I don't care about ybu, that's not a step up anyway.

It would only be a factor if the coach was a member of the Church or joined partway through.

Otherwise BYU won't be coming for USU's coaches. I second the Utah clause in a contract, and should have one for any other MW school.

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