What if I told you Craig Smith

Agzrule · Post by **Agzrule** » March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm

Actually underperformed here, what if I told you our long term success was in doubt with him at the helm?

Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.

He has now left the cupboard much emptier than how he found it, he was not building towards any kind of future here. Did not recruit local kids or impact jucos, he lied to his players and then took the first train he could out of town.

I think he is a fraud and I have sensed it for a while

My brain tells me we can find a good coach that will actually recruit mwc level players, Craig seemed to only get summit league level guys, I think we can do better.

AKAggie03 · Post by **AKAggie03** » March 27th, 2021, 4:58 pm

I kind of agree.

Blitz79 · Post by **Blitz79** » March 27th, 2021, 5:00 pm

Oh my, we really are bu77hurt.

Agzrule · Post by **Agzrule** » March 27th, 2021, 5:01 pm

Blitz79 wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:00 pm
Oh my, we really are bu77hurt.

Huh? I’m glad he’s gone

2004AG · Post by **2004AG** » March 27th, 2021, 5:04 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm
Actually underperformed here, what if I told you our long term success was in doubt with him at the helm?

Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.

He has now left the cupboard much emptier than how he found it, he was not building towards any kind of future here. Did not recruit local kids or impact jucos, he lied to his players and then took the first train he could out of town.

I think he is a fraud and I have sensed it for a while

My brain tells me we can find a good coach that will actually recruit mwc level players, Craig seemed to only get summit league level guys, I think we can do better.

Where were you last week when everyone freaked out at me when I said we wouldn't be "challenging for the MW crown" with the players left in the program?

Agzrule · Post by **Agzrule** » March 27th, 2021, 5:09 pm

2004AG wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:04 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm
Actually underperformed here, what if I told you our long term success was in doubt with him at the helm?

Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.

He has now left the cupboard much emptier than how he found it, he was not building towards any kind of future here. Did not recruit local kids or impact jucos, he lied to his players and then took the first train he could out of town.

I think he is a fraud and I have sensed it for a while

My brain tells me we can find a good coach that will actually recruit mwc level players, Craig seemed to only get summit league level guys, I think we can do better.
Where were you last week when everyone freaked out at me when I said we wouldn't be "challenging for the MW crown" with the players left in the program?

Oh I was here, dig into a week ago, people jumped down my throat for suggesting we could be in trouble if Queta left and smith stayed. I for one could not stand his offensive philosophy and execution and his recruiting minus Queta was very underwhelming, I’m excited for someone/something different

Post by **ProvoAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 5:14 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm
Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.

He definitely had his flaws but I think you are selling him a bit short. Sam carried the team the year before he arrived as well with Koby McEwen by his side all the way to an 8th place finish in league. We had the talent that year to do better but didn't. The next year we were picked to finish 9th and despite what you said, we did win a Conference Championship. We were co-champs but we have a trophy somewhere that says Regular Season Champions. He didn't beat BYU which was disappointing but he did pick up some big wins outside of the Spectrum. Beating LSU and Florida both come to mind. Would Stew have done better with these players? Possibly but Stew isn't walking back through that door. Stew is still regarded by many as one of the greatest X's and O's coaches out there.

I feel like Smith's greatest strength was getting the most out his players. He took some role players that I never thought would amount to much and turned them into starters. His recruiting outside of Queta was definitely suspect but I feel like most of the players that fully bought in to what he was trying to do became better because of him. I feel like next years team would have probable over achieved their talent level as well but with a lower talent level there would have been a drop off for sure.

Blitz79 · Post by **Blitz79** » March 27th, 2021, 5:15 pm

This is laughable. Best winning % in the league while he was here.

Why couldn't Duryea win with future NBA player in his roster?

BTW, I predicted we would finish 6th at best next year. But the guy can coach, I agree his recruiting is not the best. But he brought Queta.

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » March 27th, 2021, 5:18 pm

Stew Morrill would not have done better. But I have been really nervous that in the middle of recruiting season we have nothing announced. NADA. What has this staff been doing?

Agzrule · Post by **Agzrule** » March 27th, 2021, 5:21 pm

Blitz79 wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:15 pm
This is laughable. Best winning % in the league while he was here.

Why couldn't Duryea win with future NBA player in his roster?

BTW, I predicted we would finish 6th at best next year. But the guy can coach, I agree his recruiting is not the best. But he brought Queta.

Craig is a better coach than Tim, I don’t dispute that, never have.

coolag · Post by **coolag** » March 27th, 2021, 5:27 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:18 pm
Stew Morrill would not have done better. But I have been really nervous that in the middle of recruiting season we have nothing announced. NADA. What has this staff been doing?

I think we now know the answer to that question.

Agzrule · Post by **Agzrule** » March 27th, 2021, 5:27 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:14 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm
Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.
He definitely had his flaws but I think you are selling him a bit short. Sam carried the team the year before he arrived as well with Koby McEwen by his side all the way to an 8th place finish in league. We had the talent that year to do better but didn't. The next year we were picked to finish 9th and despite what you said, we did win a Conference Championship. We were co-champs but we have a trophy somewhere that says Regular Season Champions. He didn't beat BYU which was disappointing but he did pick up some big wins outside of the Spectrum. Beating LSU and Florida both come to mind. Would Stew have done better with these players? Possibly but Stew isn't walking back through that door. Stew is still regarded by many as one of the greatest X's and O's coaches out there.

I feel like Smith's greatest strength was getting the most out his players. He took some role players that I never thought would amount to much and turned them into starters. His recruiting outside of Queta was definitely suspect but I feel like most of the players that fully bought in to what he was trying to do became better because of him. I feel like next years team would have probable over achieved their talent level as well but with a lower talent level there would have been a drop off for sure.

LSU and Florida were on neutral floors, I don’t count shared titles. Stews best 3-4 teams would have ran circles around smiths teams in my opinion

coolag · Post by **coolag** » March 27th, 2021, 5:29 pm

Unused timeouts are now safe in Salt Lake....aka center of the universe.

Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » March 27th, 2021, 5:29 pm

Sure... my ex wasn’t nearly as attractive as I once thought, at least that’s what I tell myself....

But she still dumped my a$$

cval · Post by **cval** » March 27th, 2021, 5:34 pm

I told my wife this morning that we would now have ex-Aggie-itis. Turns out he was never that good anyway. We will actually be better off with him gone.

2004AG · Post by **2004AG** » March 27th, 2021, 5:34 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:09 pm

2004AG wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 5:04 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm
Actually underperformed here, what if I told you our long term success was in doubt with him at the helm?

Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.

He has now left the cupboard much emptier than how he found it, he was not building towards any kind of future here. Did not recruit local kids or impact jucos, he lied to his players and then took the first train he could out of town.

I think he is a fraud and I have sensed it for a while

My brain tells me we can find a good coach that will actually recruit mwc level players, Craig seemed to only get summit league level guys, I think we can do better.
Where were you last week when everyone freaked out at me when I said we wouldn't be "challenging for the MW crown" with the players left in the program?
Oh I was here, dig into a week ago, people jumped down my throat for suggesting we could be in trouble if Queta left and smith stayed. I for one could not stand his offensive philosophy and execution and his recruiting minus Queta was very underwhelming, I’m excited for someone/something different

Good, because it felt like I was the only one.

In a way Craig was smart, if he didn't leave this year, he wouldn't be leaving anytime soon. He has left the cupboard pretty bare. In three recruiting classes, he still never recruited a shooter that was better than Miller, and he brought in A LOT of whiffs. Next year we wouldn't be anywhere near challenging for the top of the MW.

I like Smith, but he always felt a tad overrated because he inherited Sam Merrill.

MrBiggle · Post by **MrBiggle** » March 27th, 2021, 5:35 pm

ThunderAggie · Post by **ThunderAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 5:35 pm

I think we would have won a game or two in last years tournament. Had that happened I don't think people would be saying he under performed. Craig Smith is a fantastic coach that exceeded expectations. We should be thankful we had him for 3 years and technically made the tournament all 3 years.

SwaggieAggie · Post by **SwaggieAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 5:45 pm

A fraud? C’mon. Let’s not get that crazy. Dude made us relevant again.

However, since you’re bringing up an argument of underperforming, the only thing I could possibly side with you on was the ‘19-20 season. We were still a great team, but given the future NBA talent we had, that was our year and opportunity to be truly special. We started off the year ranked #17 for a reason.

That win over #4 SDSU erased a lot of bad memories of that season. Had that game ended differently, it probably would’ve changed our tone about that year.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » March 27th, 2021, 6:10 pm

Hard to argue he was a fraud. The results were pretty good. He won 76% of his conference games won a regular season title and won 2 regular season conference titles and went to the tourney 3 years in a row. I don't care who you are, nobody would have predicted the last 3 years in the Summer of 2018 and if I predicted it you would have said I was crazy.
Yes he had Merrill and Queta, but nobody wins without talent. This past year there was no Merrill and an extremely flawed roster, yet once again we were second in the league and back in the tournament.

I definitely agree next year was going to be a step back and Smith's recruiting at USU was a big flaw. He did not set up USU for long term success. This past year it was like he didn't even care about recruiting and he probably didn't. Unless we hit a homerun in the transfer portal we will be a middle of the pack MW team next year.

pilotaggie · Post by **pilotaggie** » March 27th, 2021, 6:15 pm

SwaggieAggie wrote:A fraud? C’mon. Let’s not get that crazy. Dude made us relevant again.

However, since you’re bringing up an argument of underperforming, the only thing I could possibly side with you on was the ‘19-20 season. We were still a great team, but given the future NBA talent we had, that was our year and opportunity to be truly special. We started off the year ranked #17 for a reason.

That win over #4 SDSU erased a lot of bad memories of that season. Had that game ended differently, it probably would’ve changed our tone about that year.

We had a ton of hype going into the 19-20 season. Injuries hurt us terribly throughout the year. I honestly think we were a top 20 team when healthy but we played very few healthy games.

Next season would have really shown how good a coach CS was/is. For his paycheck and family he has made the call he thinks is right. Personally I think Utah is a no win place to coach but he sees something. I really would have liked to see him stay his energy is tough to beat.

The AD had to know he was in consideration for a bunch of jobs I expect they too had candidates in mind and hope we land the right hire moving forward.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

cval · Post by **cval** » March 27th, 2021, 6:16 pm

Would Duryea, or someone else have recognized that Abel and Justin needed to be playing, or would they have been relegated to walk-on status because that is how they started?

bluegrouse · Post by **bluegrouse** » March 27th, 2021, 6:24 pm

This is just different version of “he wasn’t good enough to play here anyway” when a recruit you really wanted chooses another school. To say Smith wasn’t a good coach for us is just laughable.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » March 27th, 2021, 6:25 pm

Saying he is a fraud for the 19-20 season is a bit rich. We beat 3 quality tournament teams on neutral courts and still finished 2nd in the league. We were 26-8 and would have been a 10/11 seed. You can argue (I guess) if you really want to that we underperformed for 3 weeks in January while we were dealing with injuries, but otherwise it was a great season.

DCAggie24 · Post by **DCAggie24** » March 27th, 2021, 6:30 pm

How much of Craig Smiths lack of recruiting was more on kids not wanting to come to Logan, UT. What if the staff as a whole connected with kids that were interested in the program but ultimately didn’t want to spend the best 4ish years of their lives in Logan? This is a genuine question. Coming off those last two seasons prior to this last one and the USU brand was probably at its height in recent memory. Maybe a top 20 ranking for a few minutes, back to back MWC Championships, two Tourney bids etc doesn’t help the brand enough to generate more interest. Or maybe Craig was that bad of a recruiter that even with all that he came away with not that much.(that we can tell).
We all revere USU, The Spectrum, and generally Cache Valley as a whole but it seems like USU had to find the players like Bean, who slip through the cracks a bit. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see recruits lining up to come play in Logan if they have other options in warmer, larger destinations(generalization). Could another coach do a better job at convincing those higher recruited kids with options?? I guess we will find out.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » March 27th, 2021, 6:36 pm

DCAggie24 wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 6:30 pm
How much of Craig Smiths lack of recruiting was more on kids not wanting to come to Logan, UT. What if the staff as a whole connected with kids that were interested in the program but ultimately didn’t want to spend the best 4ish years of their lives in Logan? This is a genuine question. Coming off those last two seasons prior to this last one and the USU brand was probably at its height in recent memory. Maybe a top 20 ranking for a few minutes, back to back MWC Championships, two Tourney bids etc doesn’t help the brand enough to generate more interest. Or maybe Craig was that bad of a recruiter that even with all that he came away with not that much.(that we can tell).
We all revere USU, The Spectrum, and generally Cache Valley as a whole but it seems like USU had to find the players like Bean, who slip through the cracks a bit. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see recruits lining up to come play in Logan if they have other options in warmer, larger destinations(generalization). Could another coach do a better job at convincing those higher recruited kids with options?? I guess we will find out.

I'm sure 22 and others more in the know will disagree with this, but I think Smith was a lazy recruiter this past year believing he wasn't going to be in Logan past this year. I mean seriously 1 guy who won't be on campus for 2 years is all you get? The recruiting job this past year is definitely worthy of serious criticism.

Bank Shot · Post by **Bank Shot** » March 27th, 2021, 6:36 pm

DCAggie24 wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 6:30 pm
How much of Craig Smiths lack of recruiting was more on kids not wanting to come to Logan, UT. What if the staff as a whole connected with kids that were interested in the program but ultimately didn’t want to spend the best 4ish years of their lives in Logan? This is a genuine question. Coming off those last two seasons prior to this last one and the USU brand was probably at its height in recent memory. Maybe a top 20 ranking for a few minutes, back to back MWC Championships, two Tourney bids etc doesn’t help the brand enough to generate more interest. Or maybe Craig was that bad of a recruiter that even with all that he came away with not that much.(that we can tell).
We all revere USU, The Spectrum, and generally Cache Valley as a whole but it seems like USU had to find the players like Bean, who slip through the cracks a bit. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see recruits lining up to come play in Logan if they have other options in warmer, larger destinations(generalization). Could another coach do a better job at convincing those higher recruited kids with options?? I guess we will find out.

I've thought about this a lot but then I come back to the point that from what I saw of Wyoming this year, what the heck does Laramie offer that Logan doesn't. Or is it blasphemy to even compare?

ArizonaAggie · Post by **ArizonaAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 6:43 pm

SwaggieAggie wrote:A fraud? C’mon. Let’s not get that crazy. Dude made us relevant again.

However, since you’re bringing up an argument of underperforming, the only thing I could possibly side with you on was the ‘19-20 season. We were still a great team, but given the future NBA talent we had, that was our year and opportunity to be truly special. We started off the year ranked #17 for a reason.

That win over #4 SDSU erased a lot of bad memories of that season. Had that game ended differently, it probably would’ve changed our tone about that year.

Well said

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 6:57 pm

pilotaggie wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 6:15 pm

SwaggieAggie wrote:A fraud? C’mon. Let’s not get that crazy. Dude made us relevant again.

However, since you’re bringing up an argument of underperforming, the only thing I could possibly side with you on was the ‘19-20 season. We were still a great team, but given the future NBA talent we had, that was our year and opportunity to be truly special. We started off the year ranked #17 for a reason.

That win over #4 SDSU erased a lot of bad memories of that season. Had that game ended differently, it probably would’ve changed our tone about that year.
We had a ton of hype going into the 19-20 season. Injuries hurt us terribly throughout the year. I honestly think we were a top 20 team when healthy but we played very few healthy games.

Next season would have really shown how good a coach CS was/is. For his paycheck and family he has made the call he thinks is right. Personally I think Utah is a no win place to coach but he sees something. I really would have liked to see him stay his energy is tough to beat.

The AD had to know he was in consideration for a bunch of jobs I expect they too had candidates in mind and hope we land the right hire moving forward.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

I'd coach at Fallujah State for $18 million. That could easily be all he sees.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 6:58 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 6:25 pm
Saying he is a fraud for the 19-20 season is a bit rich. We beat 3 quality tournament teams on neutral courts and still finished 2nd in the league. We were 26-8 and would have been a 10/11 seed. You can argue (I guess) if you really want to that we underperformed for 3 weeks in January while we were dealing with injuries, but otherwise it was a great season.

I bet we'd have been a 7-8.

brian5562 · Post by **brian5562** » March 27th, 2021, 7:08 pm

All I know is that he helped bring The Spectrum Magic back in his first season. That alone gives him solid points in my book. I wouldn’t be an Aggie if I wasn’t pissed about hung go to Utah but he was very good to USU while here.

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » March 27th, 2021, 7:09 pm

Agzrule wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 4:56 pm
Actually underperformed here, what if I told you our long term success was in doubt with him at the helm?

Really, stop and really think about it, does he win two conference championships without Sam Merrill? Do you think someone like say, Stew Morrill would have done better with the same personnel? He never beat byu, he never beat good teams on the road, he won zero regular season championships and he had two future nba players on his team.

He has now left the cupboard much emptier than how he found it, he was not building towards any kind of future here. Did not recruit local kids or impact jucos, he lied to his players and then took the first train he could out of town.

I think he is a fraud and I have sensed it for a while

My brain tells me we can find a good coach that will actually recruit mwc level players, Craig seemed to only get summit league level guys, I think we can do better.

This smacks of saying, “She wasnt’t that cute and I was just about to dump her!” just after your girlfriend leaves you for another guy.

The fact is we would have been ecstatic to have Smith stay for the long-haul.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » March 27th, 2021, 7:13 pm

Here's the truth:

Smith was great at USU, end of story. He wasn't perfect, especially when it came to recruiting (this year in particular).

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » March 27th, 2021, 7:42 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
March 27th, 2021, 7:13 pm
Here's the truth:

Smith was great at USU, end of story. He wasn't perfect, especially when it came to recruiting (this year in particular).

Yep. There is some criticisms that are very valid of Smith, but you can't argue the results of 3 straight tournaments and winning 76% of his conference games.

I'm not going to pretend he wasn't a good coach even though I hate that he went to Utah. And even worse I don't know if he is going to fail at Utah. I'll be cheering against him, but he is a good coach.

AgMac · Post by **AgMac** » March 27th, 2021, 7:46 pm

I hate Craig Smith. I hope he never wins another game.

But no, he didn't underperformed here.

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