Chris Murray article

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Chris Murray article

Post by Yossarian » March 17th, 2021, 10:21 pm

Interesting article from Chris Murray regarding the future of the mountain west and the problem it faces.

http://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporte ... -its-hands

Coaching turnover is the biggest issue the league has, according to Craig Thompson. I thought this was a timely article given the discussion in here lately.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by NowhereLandAggie » March 18th, 2021, 3:46 pm

Yossarian wrote:
March 17th, 2021, 10:21 pm
Interesting article from Chris Murray regarding the future of the mountain west and the problem it faces.

http://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporte ... -its-hands

Coaching turnover is the biggest issue the league has, according to Craig Thompson. I thought this was a timely article given the discussion in here lately.
Also interesting only 5 coaches left for jobs in bigger conferences since the league began.

Minnesota will be an interesting case, I hope we can retain Craig Smith.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by IBleedAggieBlue » March 18th, 2021, 3:54 pm

It's time to turn Craig Thompson over. He needs to start positioning the MW in a better light. It really doesn't seem like the conference itself has actually changed or improved over the last 10 years. Not sure how he's going to do it, but, he should be held accountable for not improving the conference, as a whole.
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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by ProvoAggie » March 18th, 2021, 4:08 pm

IBleedAggieBlue wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 3:54 pm
It's time to turn Craig Thompson over. He needs to start positioning the MW in a better light. It really doesn't seem like the conference itself has actually changed or improved over the last 10 years. Not sure how he's going to do it, but, he should be held accountable for not improving the conference, as a whole.
I've always been under the impression that the conference commissioners job is to do what the University Presidents want them to do. They may go out and negotiate deals on behalf of the University Presidents but the instruction doesn't come from them. Adding USU and SJSU was ultimately the decision of the University presidents. The approval of the TV deal was the decision of the University Presidents. Moving the MWC Tournament to Denver and then back to Vegas was the decision of the University presidents. Starting The MWN was the decision of the University Presidents (mostly Utah and BYU). A commissioner can present ideas but ultimately commissioners get too much credit when things are good and too much blame when things are bad. Sure it would be nice if he could negotiate better TV deals but maybe the product isn't worth as much as some with it was.
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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Yossarian » March 18th, 2021, 4:15 pm

To me, University presidents are academic administrators first and foremost. They don't have the background or savvy or foresight to negotiate television contracts or football bowl deals or anticipate conference dynamics. An astute president that is always looking 5-10 years down the road is needed to offer insight. This may even need an outside consultant whispering in the ear of the commissioner as an advisor. Thompson has overseen the gutting of the Mountain West Conference with the departure of Utah, BYU, and TCU. He has lost major football bowl games that are within the footprint of the conference (Vegas Bowl and Holiday Bowl), and he has seen NCAA tournament bids go from 4 or 5 to 2 (and barely 2, if we look at how USU squeaked in this year). What good has he done for the conference? Maybe it's time Thompson doesn't just do what the presidents want and he starts leading them to what is best for the league.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by nvspuds » March 18th, 2021, 4:16 pm

Football is fine..

Fixing the other problems is...well...problematic...

There is very little agreement on a number of issues..Thompson is not a dictator..He can't fix anything..



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by ProvoAggie » March 18th, 2021, 4:23 pm

Yossarian wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 4:15 pm
To me, University presidents are academic administrators first and foremost. They don't have the background or savvy or foresight to negotiate television contracts or football bowl deals or anticipate conference dynamics. An astute president that is always looking 5-10 years down the road is needed to offer insight. This may even need an outside consultant whispering in the ear of the commissioner as an advisor. Thompson has overseen the gutting of the Mountain West Conference with the departure of Utah, BYU, and TCU. He has lost major football bowl games that are within the footprint of the conference (Vegas Bowl and Holiday Bowl), and he has seen NCAA tournament bids go from 4 or 5 to 2 (and barely 2, if we look at how USU squeaked in this year). What good has he done for the conference? Maybe it's time Thompson doesn't just do what the presidents want and he starts leading them to what is best for the league.
He doesn't have the authority to just do whatever he wants. The University Presidents are in charge and have to vote on everything he does. He doesn't have some magical veto power to just overrule them.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by 3rdGenAggie » March 18th, 2021, 4:25 pm

I recognize that the article is basketball focused, and I don't disagree with what it's saying. But in talking about the larger idea discussed here of conference stability, etc, football drives 90+% of decision making. I honestly think the MWC will never truly be stable with Boise State as a member...neither can we lose them, so...it is what it is.


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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Yossarian » March 18th, 2021, 4:26 pm

ProvoAggie wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 4:23 pm
Yossarian wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 4:15 pm
To me, University presidents are academic administrators first and foremost. They don't have the background or savvy or foresight to negotiate television contracts or football bowl deals or anticipate conference dynamics. An astute president that is always looking 5-10 years down the road is needed to offer insight. This may even need an outside consultant whispering in the ear of the commissioner as an advisor. Thompson has overseen the gutting of the Mountain West Conference with the departure of Utah, BYU, and TCU. He has lost major football bowl games that are within the footprint of the conference (Vegas Bowl and Holiday Bowl), and he has seen NCAA tournament bids go from 4 or 5 to 2 (and barely 2, if we look at how USU squeaked in this year). What good has he done for the conference? Maybe it's time Thompson doesn't just do what the presidents want and he starts leading them to what is best for the league.
He doesn't have the authority to just do whatever he wants. The University Presidents are in charge and have to vote on everything he does. He doesn't have some magical veto power to just overrule them.
I get that. I was thinking maybe he needs to present the options to the presidents in a more convincing manner for them to vote on.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by ProvoAggie » March 18th, 2021, 4:47 pm

Yossarian wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 4:26 pm
I get that. I was thinking maybe he needs to present the options to the presidents in a more convincing manner for them to vote on.
There may be something to that. I also look at a lot of the things listed as failures and wonder what any commissioner could have done differently. Vegas get's a brand new stadium and the SEC says they want into the bowl game. There is no commissioner in this country that could have convinced the board to keep the MWC over the SEC. I feel like picking up the new LA bowl in the new Rams stadium offsets that loss really nicely though. Losing the Holiday Bowl sucked too but it just shut down because it wasn't profitable enough.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by AggieFBObsession » March 18th, 2021, 5:29 pm

To the extent of this thread, what would everyone have done when faced with adding SJSU to the conference?



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by utaggies » March 18th, 2021, 5:50 pm

It is an apples oranges comparison of the MWC of a few years ago and the MWC today. Utah St., Fresno St., Nevada and SJS are not BYU, Utah and TCU. The same comparison could be made for the WAC of a few years ago and the WAC today. There is no comparison except for the name.

The MWC will continue to be the feeder schools to the P-5 conferences. The exception will be the Stew Morrill type where age and other considerations kept a successful coach from leaving. Any up-and-comer would have bolted as Smith will ultimately do.

The MWC will not be returning to its golden years any sooner than CCNY, Oklahoma City, UTEP and Wyoming will be returning to their basketball glory days.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Yossarian » March 18th, 2021, 6:01 pm

utaggies wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 5:50 pm
It is an apples oranges comparison of the MWC of a few years ago and the MWC today. Utah St., Fresno St., Nevada and SJS are not BYU, Utah and TCU. The same comparison could be made for the WAC of a few years ago and the WAC today. There is no comparison except for the name.

The MWC will continue to be the feeder schools to the P-5 conferences. The exception will be the Stew Morrill type where age and other considerations kept a successful coach from leaving. Any up-and-comer would have bolted as Smith will ultimately do.

The MWC will not be returning to its golden years any sooner than CCNY, Oklahoma City, UTEP and Wyoming will be returning to their basketball glory days.
For that matter, I wonder how much longer intercollegiate sports will survive. This past year has shown us that distance learning is possible. There are some very prestigious schools that offer online classes for free- with no enrollment in the school necessary. If students don't have to be centrally located on a campus, why should they pay student fees for activities? They can take classes at their leisure and around personal/work schedules and at their own pace on their way to getting a degree. Without students, many athletic departments (USU's included) lose a lot of funding and can no longer be sustainable.

I don't think it is too far fetched to see a NFL developmental league pop up for those that want to pursue a possible career in football - similar to the basketball D-league. Those that want to pursue higher levels of athletic competition (in tennis or golf or volleyball or track/field, or whatever) will do so in for-profit organized leagues similar to AAU but for young adults. They will hire personal coaches/trainers to help them get to professional leagues, if that is what they want. I just don't see intercollegiate sports, and the money required to sustain them (tuition and room/board seem to some of the smaller costs in running a program compared to medical insurance, facilities, travel, coaches salaries, recruiting, etc.), being viable long term.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » March 18th, 2021, 7:12 pm

Yossarian wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 6:01 pm
utaggies wrote:
March 18th, 2021, 5:50 pm
It is an apples oranges comparison of the MWC of a few years ago and the MWC today. Utah St., Fresno St., Nevada and SJS are not BYU, Utah and TCU. The same comparison could be made for the WAC of a few years ago and the WAC today. There is no comparison except for the name.

The MWC will continue to be the feeder schools to the P-5 conferences. The exception will be the Stew Morrill type where age and other considerations kept a successful coach from leaving. Any up-and-comer would have bolted as Smith will ultimately do.

The MWC will not be returning to its golden years any sooner than CCNY, Oklahoma City, UTEP and Wyoming will be returning to their basketball glory days.
For that matter, I wonder how much longer intercollegiate sports will survive. This past year has shown us that distance learning is possible. There are some very prestigious schools that offer online classes for free- with no enrollment in the school necessary. If students don't have to be centrally located on a campus, why should they pay student fees for activities? They can take classes at their leisure and around personal/work schedules and at their own pace on their way to getting a degree. Without students, many athletic departments (USU's included) lose a lot of funding and can no longer be sustainable.

I don't think it is too far fetched to see a NFL developmental league pop up for those that want to pursue a possible career in football - similar to the basketball D-league. Those that want to pursue higher levels of athletic competition (in tennis or golf or volleyball or track/field, or whatever) will do so in for-profit organized leagues similar to AAU but for young adults. They will hire personal coaches/trainers to help them get to professional leagues, if that is what they want. I just don't see intercollegiate sports, and the money required to sustain them (tuition and room/board seem to some of the smaller costs in running a program compared to medical insurance, facilities, travel, coaches salaries, recruiting, etc.), being viable long term.
Possibly not. The trend of the best basketball players not even going to one year of college is growing and is only going to be stronger with the new league that is going to not just pay high school grads a 100,000, but high school basketball players.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/over ... yers-100k/

Now you could argue this won't hurt USU as USU isn't exactly competing for Cade Cunningham and Jalen Green level talent, but anything that hurts the brand of college basketball trickles down.

A new football league would be interesting. College Football has been bulletproof where college basketball hasn't been. College football is the NFL's minor league. The best 18-22 year old football players in the world are playing college football. If there becomes a successful post-HS league that changes that dynamic, things could get really interesting.

As for the college experience in general, that too is massively changing. Going to college just isn't what it used to be anymore. Not only not opting to go to college, but online colleges are far of an option than they were even a decade ago. I recently got a Master's Degree with the work being primarily online. It was nice. I worked full time and never had to worry about set class times and had more freedom. The world is changing and as we become more online as a culture, many people aren't craving the traditional college experience.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Yossarian » March 19th, 2021, 12:35 am

I think the increased demand for college players to be compensated for use of their likeness and the fact that their bodies and time are expended to make the NCAA untold millions of dollars (hundreds of millions) each year and they see none of it will play into the end of collegiate sports, as well.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by cval » March 20th, 2021, 10:35 am

Ah for the days when a free college education was viewed as having value equal to the slim possibility of a pro contract, or even a few bucks.

I vaguely remember the days when college sports was less of a business and had at least some modest connection to education.



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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Ahbye » March 20th, 2021, 8:53 pm

Thompson does have to carry out the wishes of conference presidents but that's the bare minimum. Look at Aresco from the AAC. He's always out plugging his conference any chance he gets. There was a time when we were even as conferences, but Aresco just got out there and put them way ahead. The P6 thing seemed gimmicky and little brother, but it sure as hell played a part in separating them from us. They may not be a power conference yet, but they've managed to make themselves the clear next entity in line. Thompson and Larry Scott both have the same crappy promotional acumen. The pac12 got rid of Scott. What are we doing?
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Re: Chris Murray article

Post by Aggie84025 » March 20th, 2021, 10:53 pm

Ahbye wrote:
March 20th, 2021, 8:53 pm
Thompson does have to carry out the wishes of conference presidents but that's the bare minimum. Look at Aresco from the AAC. He's always out plugging his conference any chance he gets. There was a time when we were even as conferences, but Aresco just got out there and put them way ahead. The P6 thing seemed gimmicky and little brother, but it sure as hell played a part in separating them from us. They may not be a power conference yet, but they've managed to make themselves the clear next entity in line. Thompson and Larry Scott both have the same crappy promotional acumen. The pac12 got rid of Scott. What are we doing?
I agree with this, it seems he is just content doing what they say instead of trying to lead the conference forward and pushing the president's to do the same.



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