Gimmick defenses

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SectionBAggie
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Gimmick defenses

Post by SectionBAggie » March 4th, 2021, 10:16 pm

I have to admit that I have not (that I am aware of) seen a gimmick defense that just ignored a player out on the wings. But just like a box and one or a triangle and two, gimmick defenses have weak spots. And a good coaching staff can figure out how to exploit the weak spot.
Wyoming's strategy was successful in keeping them from being run out of the gym, but it seemed at times as if they were ignoring two or three players on a possession.
It took 12 minutes for USU to get to 20 points. But 9 more to get to 40 and 9 more to get to 60. Something got figured out.
Defensively, giving up 8 for 17 from the line in the first half went to 2 for 14 in the second half. There are many potential reasons for that , but coaching adjustments have to be a big part of it.
Coaches that know they are outmanned are known to take risks. And in the short term it paid off. But once the counter-adjustments were in place, it was pretty much obvious that it was going to be an Aggie win.



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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by Aggie84025 » March 4th, 2021, 11:55 pm

Yeah it was wise to start but once the aggies calmed down and figured it out they got really good looks and made them pay. With WYO being a really good 3 point team i for the life of don't understand the help defense for queta. He can handle the paint but instead we gave up wide open 3's the first half. The 2nd half defense adjustments were money and they played them mostly straight up and shut them down really good.



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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by aggietime » March 5th, 2021, 8:36 am

We used this defense pretty frequently years ago. Pick the worst shooting wing player on the other team and have the guy guarding him never leave the paint, effectively daring him to shoot and clogging up the lane for anyone wanting to drive or a big guy trying to post up. Wyoming's main problem is they were still terrible at defending the paint and rebounding even with the extra man in there. We called the defense Vegas, because you were gambling that the guy couldn't hit wide open shots. It was a psychological thing, because no basketball players expect to be left wide open on purpose. I think it had the intended effect on Bean and Shulga in the first half last night.

Smith did a great job calming those guys down at halftime and running things to attack it. Having Bean take rhythm shots from the short corner helped and you knew Shulga would start hitting open looks. The thing that amazes me with college coaches is when their strategy is getting beat repeatedly and don't switch up the look. Throwing a couple of possessions of zone or straight man-to-man could have slowed down that run in the second half, but Linder refused to do anything.



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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by Aggie19 » March 5th, 2021, 11:52 am

aggietime wrote:
March 5th, 2021, 8:36 am
We used this defense pretty frequently years ago. Pick the worst shooting wing player on the other team and have the guy guarding him never leave the paint, effectively daring him to shoot and clogging up the lane for anyone wanting to drive or a big guy trying to post up. Wyoming's main problem is they were still terrible at defending the paint and rebounding even with the extra man in there. We called the defense Vegas, because you were gambling that the guy couldn't hit wide open shots. It was a psychological thing, because no basketball players expect to be left wide open on purpose. I think it had the intended effect on Bean and Shulga in the first half last night.

Smith did a great job calming those guys down at halftime and running things to attack it. Having Bean take rhythm shots from the short corner helped and you knew Shulga would start hitting open looks. The thing that amazes me with college coaches is when their strategy is getting beat repeatedly and don't switch up the look. Throwing a couple of possessions of zone or straight man-to-man could have slowed down that run in the second half, but Linder refused to do anything.
I agree, blows my mind. I honestly don't think that a lot of coaches have the ability to adjust real time. They can make half time adjustments, but if something switches, it's like their brain shuts down. I think that is what makes coach Smith a good coach, he'll switch it up. But even there, at times, he's slow to move and I'm screaming at the TV. I think they get lost in the game a little bit.


Go Aggies!

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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by tipitup » March 5th, 2021, 1:52 pm

my problem is like aggietime pointed out that we have been doubling down to help queta, while leaving a shooter. i would love it if it was the worst shooter, but against boise it was alston and last night it seems like it was jeffries. they are both above average shooters. That's what i was yelling at the TV about. except last night i was explaining it to my wife and daughter and couldn't belief we were doing it, and right at that moment anderson doubled down on ike and he just turned and threw it about 5 rows up into the stands, so what do i know!!



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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by logansdad2 » March 5th, 2021, 2:32 pm

I see people bring up this frustration a lot. Without going into too much detail or giving away game plan secrets I will try to give a little bit have an Explanation as to why the team does this.

1.Especially early in the game we try to protect Nieme and the other bigs from foul trouble. The staff has found that when they double early other teams just Automatically and quickly kick the ball out and don’t challenge at the rim thus saving our bigs fouls. They have also found that well our Biggs are good straight up defenders they are even better when their help side defenders. When other teams kick the ball out they typically Go into their swing offenses and this allows our big guys to do what they do best and get on help side defense.

2. It automatically forces other teams to do things they aren’t accustomed to and proficient at doing. It is a bit of a gamble in that we are gambling that the other team can’t make two or three passes before we adjust. Everybody knows that if the team can swing it twice they can get an open opposite side three We are simply gambling that they won’t do this often enough to beat us. The numbers have shown that this is very successful and actually leads to quite a few turnovers for the other team.

There are a few other reasons that I won’t go into here but if you go into the numbers you will see that while this can be frustrating to give up open threes it is a gamble that has paid off very well over the last couple of years.
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Aggie84025
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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by Aggie84025 » March 5th, 2021, 3:30 pm

logansdad2 wrote:
March 5th, 2021, 2:32 pm
I see people bring up this frustration a lot. Without going into too much detail or giving away game plan secrets I will try to give a little bit have an Explanation as to why the team does this.

1.Especially early in the game we try to protect Nieme and the other bigs from foul trouble. The staff has found that when they double early other teams just Automatically and quickly kick the ball out and don’t challenge at the rim thus saving our bigs fouls. They have also found that well our Biggs are good straight up defenders they are even better when their help side defenders. When other teams kick the ball out they typically Go into their swing offenses and this allows our big guys to do what they do best and get on help side defense.

2. It automatically forces other teams to do things they aren’t accustomed to and proficient at doing. It is a bit of a gamble in that we are gambling that the other team can’t make two or three passes before we adjust. Everybody knows that if the team can swing it twice they can get an open opposite side three We are simply gambling that they won’t do this often enough to beat us. The numbers have shown that this is very successful and actually leads to quite a few turnovers for the other team.

There are a few other reasons that I won’t go into here but if you go into the numbers you will see that while this can be frustrating to give up open threes it is a gamble that has paid off very well over the last couple of years.
Thank you for the detailed explanation.



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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by Yossarian » March 5th, 2021, 5:07 pm

The thing I wanted to see more of when they were leaving Bean unguarded at/near the three-point line:

If there is no guy guarding Bean, it should be very easy for Worsester/Ashworth/Shulga/Bairstow to run his man into a Bean screen and get a wide open shot. There is nobody there to switch because Bean's defender is still in the key. I don't know why we didn't take advantage of this more often. Granted, Bairstow is not a good pull-up shooter off the ball. I don't know how good Shulga is because we haven't seen him do it. Ashworth and Worsester have both shown they can shoot off the dribble. Bean could have given them the space they needed with a simple screen - and we know Bean is capable of setting a screen.

Merrill would have had a field day against that defense.
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Re: Gimmick defenses

Post by Real Life Aggie » March 8th, 2021, 7:46 am

Yossarian wrote:
March 5th, 2021, 5:07 pm
The thing I wanted to see more of when they were leaving Bean unguarded at/near the three-point line:

If there is no guy guarding Bean, it should be very easy for Worsester/Ashworth/Shulga/Bairstow to run his man into a Bean screen and get a wide open shot. There is nobody there to switch because Bean's defender is still in the key. I don't know why we didn't take advantage of this more often. Granted, Bairstow is not a good pull-up shooter off the ball. I don't know how good Shulga is because we haven't seen him do it. Ashworth and Worsester have both shown they can shoot off the dribble. Bean could have given them the space they needed with a simple screen - and we know Bean is capable of setting a screen.

Merrill would have had a field day against that defense.
Running that sort of defense against Sam would have been career suicide, lol.



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