So what's the story with Carson Bischoff? He's a Junior (JC Transfer) and I've heard reports that he can really shoot the ball. But he hasn't gotten into any official games yet this year.

Some may say he's redshirting, but I hate to break it to you but his redshirt was already blown when he suited up against College of Idaho in the exhibition game. You can only preserve a redshirt after playing in exhibition games if you are a true freshman. So Liam McChesney is still OK and it makes sense that he hasn't played since then as we are redshirting him, but Carson cannot redshirt this season.

Why hasn't coach played Bischoff in any of the blowouts? Is he that far down the bench to not get in when we are up by 50?

I have to assume the staff knows that his redshirt is gone... right?

That's an interesting point. It almost appears as though the coaching staff is not aware his redshirt is gone because that game was an exhibition. When Craig Smith was talking about redshirts and said McChesney will redshirt and maybe one other player too. At this point I have to think maybe he was talking about Bischoff with that comment?

Coach Smith said in an interview (don't remember which one) that Bischoff was redshirting.

Can’t redshirts play in exhibition games the first year they are in the program and not lose their eligibility?


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It would be coaching malpractice not to know the rules, but I suspect this staff is fully on top of things.

ChicAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 10:39 am

It would be coaching malpractice not to know the rules, but I suspect this staff is fully on top of things.

Lawyers....

So, there may be a discrepancy here. I'm not sure if the redshirt eligibility rule is limited to true freshmen or just "first year players" at the D1 level.

We ran into this exact issue when Preston Medlin played for us. Preston played several games his true freshman year, but decided to redshirt his Sophomore season. He was held out of the exhibition contests and Stew mentioned that he couldn't play in them or he would have forfeited his second year of eligibility. That's when I first learned of this rule.

There have been multiple instances where coaching staffs were not aware of the rule, and the players in question played in closed scrimmages and/or exhibition contests and lost a year of eligibility. In both the instances that I've seen, after the player appealed, the NCAA returned the year of eligibility, but gave a 2 game suspension per exhibition played for the players.

Wisconsin Badgers player Duje Dukan Suspension Article

Notre Dame player Tim Abromaitis Suspension Article

Excerpt from the Wisconsin article:

The issue dates to the 2012-13 season, which Dukan sat out as a redshirt. However, since Dukan played in the Badgers’ closed scrimmage and an exhibition game that season, he was credited with a season of competition per NCAA rules.

First-year players can compete in closed scrimmages and exhibition games and still redshirt as long as they don’t compete in any regular-season games. But an NCAA rule prevents players who decide to use their redshirt season later in their career from participating in closed scrimmages or exhibition games.

That article uses "First Year Player" as the exception.

Excerpt from Notre Dame article:

In 2008-2009, Abromaitis played in each of the Fighting Irish's preseason exhibitions before redshirting the rest of the year. The NCAA allows freshmen to play in preseason games and still redshirt, but not upperclassmen. Abromaitis was a sophomore.

"This certainly was an unfortunate misunderstanding that I had of the NCAA rule," Notre Dame head coach Mike Brey said in a statement. "I discovered that I had misinterpreted the rule midway through the 2008-09 season and immediately reported it to our compliance office."

That article says blatantly that only freshmen can play in preseason games and still redshirt, but not upperclassmen. In that case, Bischoff would be considered an upper-classman as he is currently a Junior.

I'll see if I can find more clarification. I just hope the staff and Biscoff aren't thinking that he's redshirting only to watch him lose his Junior season and have to appeal and be suspended 4 games next year....

Here's another ESPN article about the Notre Dame player:

https://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasket ... d-disaster

Excerpt:

Basically, the story -- as announced by Notre Dame athletics in a release Tuesday morning -- goes a little something like this: As a sophomore in 2008-09, Abromaitis played in two exhibition games. He then sat the rest of the exhibition season so Notre Dame could preserve his full year of eligibility, a little loophole coaches happily use for redshirt freshmen frequently. Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't allow you to pull that move with sophomores, something Notre Dame coach Mike Brey admitted to flat-out flubbing.

Again, stating that freshmen can play in those games, but not sophomores. And the Notre Dame coach admitted to not knowing the rules. In fact, the Notre Dame coach petitioned the NCAA to suspend him for not knowing the rules, and not the player that he played in those exhibition games.

I have heard him say 3 players are redshirting. Anthony, McChensey, third I would have to guess in Bischoff. Time to get on the horn Sap.


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Someone should let the coaching staff know and see if they are aware of this! That would be sad if they blew his redshirt by playing him in the exhibition game!

ThunderAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 12:18 pm

Someone should let the coaching staff know and see if they are aware of this! That would be sad if they blew his redshirt by playing him in the exhibition game!

OR, we delete this thread, stop talking about it, and allow ignorance to bliss. I’ll bet Bischoff’s redshirt would still count.

The rule changed... I'll let ProvoAggie do the honors...

Back in 2017 there was a proposed rule change (2016-16) that says:

To specify that a student-athlete (beyond his or her initial year
of enrollment at the certifying institution) may participate in
preseason exhibition contests and preseason practice
scrimmages (as permitted in the particular sport per Bylaw 17)
without counting such competition as a season of competition.

Source

The official rule now states:

12.8.3.1.4 Preseason Exhibitions/Preseason Practice Scrimmages. A student-athlete may compete in preseason exhibition contests and preseason practice scrimmages (as permitted in the particular sport per Bylaw 17) without counting such competition as a season of competition. (Revised: 5/9/06, 7/31/14, 4/26/17 may be applied retroactively to a student-athlete with eligibility remaining in his or her five-year period of eligibility)

Source

The only exception I can find is for Academic Redshirts which would apply to Marco Anthony since he is ineligible to play this season. Academic redshirts are unable to travel with the team or suit-up.

Sap and Provo -- You make a great tag team. Perhaps the two of you should meet sometime.

ChicAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Sap and Provo -- You make a great tag team. Perhaps the two of you should meet sometime.

I don't know about that. Our Facebook chat was getting pretty heated. If it were face to face there may have been some punches thrown.

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:09 pm

ChicAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Sap and Provo -- You make a great tag team. Perhaps the two of you should meet sometime.

I don't know about that. Our Facebook chat was getting pretty heated. If it were face to face there may have been some punches thrown.

Are you calling me a liar?!?!

treesap32 wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:20 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:09 pm

ChicAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Sap and Provo -- You make a great tag team. Perhaps the two of you should meet sometime.

I don't know about that. Our Facebook chat was getting pretty heated. If it were face to face there may have been some punches thrown.

Are you calling me a liar?!?!

If the shoe fits.

Either you two are really good friends and that conversation had familiarity between the two and past conversations or you two have weird conversations and are both high strung.

Because rhat went 0 to “you won’t like me when I’m angry!” in about 1 second.

LMAO

Pretty funny stuff, Provo. You should create a "HaHa" button to join the "ThumbsUp/Like" button.

Also the “someone on the oral Roberts board told me I’m right” comment gave away the humor behind the whole conversation.

I don’t know the context behind that comment but it just became a classic in my book.

frankiesaysrelax wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:42 pm

Also the “someone on the oral Roberts board told me I’m right” comment gave away the humor behind the whole conversation.

I don’t know the context behind that comment but it just became a classic in my book.

While he may not have said it exactly that way. When I asked where he found the rule he sent me this link:
https://forum.orusports.com/index.php?% ... n-games%2F

It's really hard to find any other mention of that rule anywhere else on the internet.

Now if you had said, "Frank Allison told me that I was right," that would have been epic!

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:45 pm

frankiesaysrelax wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:42 pm

Also the “someone on the oral Roberts board told me I’m right” comment gave away the humor behind the whole conversation.

I don’t know the context behind that comment but it just became a classic in my book.

While he may not have said it exactly that way. When I asked where he found the rule he sent me this link:
https://forum.orusports.com/index.php?% ... n-games%2F

It's really hard to find any other mention of that rule anywhere else on the internet.

Except for the 3 or 4 links I posted above. So do you want to fight or not?!?!

treesap32 wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 2:29 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:45 pm

frankiesaysrelax wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:42 pm

Also the “someone on the oral Roberts board told me I’m right” comment gave away the humor behind the whole conversation.

I don’t know the context behind that comment but it just became a classic in my book.

While he may not have said it exactly that way. When I asked where he found the rule he sent me this link:
https://forum.orusports.com/index.php?% ... n-games%2F

It's really hard to find any other mention of that rule anywhere else on the internet.

Except for the 3 or 4 links I posted above. So do you want to fight or not?!?!

You know where I live. Bring it.

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 2:32 pm

treesap32 wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 2:29 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:45 pm

frankiesaysrelax wrote: ↑

November 20th, 2019, 1:42 pm

Also the “someone on the oral Roberts board told me I’m right” comment gave away the humor behind the whole conversation.

I don’t know the context behind that comment but it just became a classic in my book.

While he may not have said it exactly that way. When I asked where he found the rule he sent me this link:
https://forum.orusports.com/index.php?% ... n-games%2F

It's really hard to find any other mention of that rule anywhere else on the internet.

Except for the 3 or 4 links I posted above. So do you want to fight or not?!?!

You know where I live. Bring it.

Someone please Facebook live this fight.

NVAggie wrote: ↑

November 21st, 2019, 9:01 am

Someone please Facebook live this fight.

I got exclusive footage of the fight - it got pretty nasty.