I think the Hendricks kid that is going to CSI looks better than the Diogo kid we got. Hard to tell off of highlight film tho.

I am sure that the coaches were able to see Jake plenty of times to make a decent evaluation. I hope he does well at CSI. I know if TD would have wanted him, he would have had the kid.

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NevAggie wrote:I am sure that the coaches were able to see Jake plenty of times to make a decent evaluation. I hope he does well at CSI. I know if TD would have wanted him, he would have had the kid.

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Unfortunately coaches aren't infallible. TD very easily could have made a big mistake not offering him. Kinda like Tyler Rawson out of high school......


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2004AG wrote:

NevAggie wrote:I am sure that the coaches were able to see Jake plenty of times to make a decent evaluation. I hope he does well at CSI. I know if TD would have wanted him, he would have had the kid.

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Unfortunately coaches aren't infallible. TD very easily could have made a big mistake not offering him. Kinda like Tyler Rawson out of high school......


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Yep, and players aren't infallible either. Duryea could've offered him and he could've panned out like Quincy Bair or Riley Bradshaw. That's why it's not an exact science. It can go both ways.

treesap32 wrote:

2004AG wrote:

NevAggie wrote:I am sure that the coaches were able to see Jake plenty of times to make a decent evaluation. I hope he does well at CSI. I know if TD would have wanted him, he would have had the kid.

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Unfortunately coaches aren't infallible. TD very easily could have made a big mistake not offering him. Kinda like Tyler Rawson out of high school......


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Yep, and players aren't infallible either. Duryea could've offered him and he could've panned out like Quincy Bair or Riley Bradshaw. That's why it's not an exact science. It can go both ways.

Right, but this particular thread was more focused on whether TD offered the wrong player. NevAggie made the point that TD could have had him, had he wanted.

I'm not saying he did. Who knows? I will say I'm highly skeptical Brito makes it four years and ends up as a good player for us.


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2004AG wrote:

treesap32 wrote: Yep, and players aren't infallible either. Duryea could've offered him and he could've panned out like Quincy Bair or Riley Bradshaw. That's why it's not an exact science. It can go both ways.

Right, but this particular thread was more focused on whether TD offered the wrong player. NevAggie made the point that TD could have had him, had he wanted.

I'm not saying he did. Who knows? I will say I'm highly skeptical Brito makes it four years and ends up as a good player for us.

I think Treesap's comment simply points out that you can't know who is the right player at this juncture. Many of us liked the signings of Bair and Bradshaw. At the time they were thought to be the right player. The only right player is the one that works out.
Like you said, this particular thread is speculating which is the right player out of Diogo and Hendricks. Treesap's post is on point, even if it's not in lock step with the "TD made a mistake" rhetoric.

brownjeans wrote:

2004AG wrote:

treesap32 wrote: Yep, and players aren't infallible either. Duryea could've offered him and he could've panned out like Quincy Bair or Riley Bradshaw. That's why it's not an exact science. It can go both ways.

Right, but this particular thread was more focused on whether TD offered the wrong player. NevAggie made the point that TD could have had him, had he wanted.

I'm not saying he did. Who knows? I will say I'm highly skeptical Brito makes it four years and ends up as a good player for us.

I think Treesap's comment simply points out that you can't know who is the right player at this juncture. Many of us liked the signings of Bair and Bradshaw. At the time they were thought to be the right player. The only right player is the one that works out.
Like you said, this particular thread is speculating which is the right player out of Diogo and Hendricks. Treesap's post is on point, even if it's not in lock step with the "TD made a mistake" rhetoric.

Who said anything about "knowing who the right player is"? You're arguing with yourself. There is no need to be so defensive of TD. An opinion contrary to yours isn't just "rhetoric". Its annoying how everything on here is interpreted as a slam against TD.

If anything, Quincy Bair, Riley Bradshaw and Tyler Rawson prove my point. Coaches make mistakes. Coaches pass on players they should have offered and offer players they should have passed on. I didn't say anything good or bad about TD. More than anything, I bristle against the thought that coaches (any coach) know more than fans, so we should all just keep our mouths shut because we are dumb fans.

I've never seen either Diogo or Hendricks play. I'm not saying TD made a mistake either way. Obviously I hope Diogo turns out to be a great player.

2004AG wrote: Who said anything about "knowing who the right player is"? You're arguing with yourself. There is no need to be so defensive of TD. An opinion contrary to yours isn't just "rhetoric". Its annoying how everything on here is interpreted as a slam against TD.

If anything, Quincy Bair, Riley Bradshaw and Tyler Rawson prove my point. Coaches make mistakes. Coaches pass on players they should have offered and offer players they should have passed on. I didn't say anything good or bad about TD. More than anything, I bristle against the thought that coaches (any coach) know more than fans, so we should all just keep our mouths shut because we are dumb fans.

I've never seen either Diogo or Hendricks play. I'm not saying TD made a mistake either way. Obviously I hope Diogo turns out to be a great player.

I'm not defending TD - criticism is fine (but I do think three threads intending to blast Diogo's signing is a bit much), I was defending Treesap's post. I inferred from your post that you thought Tree's post was out of place in this thread. I disagree.
As for Hendricks vs. Diogo, time will tell. I'm certainly not impressed with Diogo's stats and it's fair to criticize our coaches for recruits that don't seem to fit. I hope he works out. Overall our recruiting class appears to be the best in years. But we won't know for certain for a while yet.

2004AG wrote:

brownjeans wrote:

2004AG wrote:

treesap32 wrote: Yep, and players aren't infallible either. Duryea could've offered him and he could've panned out like Quincy Bair or Riley Bradshaw. That's why it's not an exact science. It can go both ways.

Right, but this particular thread was more focused on whether TD offered the wrong player. NevAggie made the point that TD could have had him, had he wanted.

I'm not saying he did. Who knows? I will say I'm highly skeptical Brito makes it four years and ends up as a good player for us.

I think Treesap's comment simply points out that you can't know who is the right player at this juncture. Many of us liked the signings of Bair and Bradshaw. At the time they were thought to be the right player. The only right player is the one that works out.
Like you said, this particular thread is speculating which is the right player out of Diogo and Hendricks. Treesap's post is on point, even if it's not in lock step with the "TD made a mistake" rhetoric.

Who said anything about "knowing who the right player is"? You're arguing with yourself. There is no need to be so defensive of TD. An opinion contrary to yours isn't just "rhetoric". Its annoying how everything on here is interpreted as a slam against TD.

If anything, Quincy Bair, Riley Bradshaw and Tyler Rawson prove my point. Coaches make mistakes. Coaches pass on players they should have offered and offer players they should have passed on. I didn't say anything good or bad about TD. More than anything, I bristle against the thought that coaches (any coach) know more than fans, so we should all just keep our mouths shut because we are dumb fans.

I've never seen either Diogo or Hendricks play. I'm not saying TD made a mistake either way. Obviously I hope Diogo turns out to be a great player.

TD has not made a mistake. Enjoy the next two seasons!


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There's no comparison between the two players. Hendricks is better. Did Duryea make a mistake? He made a mistake if he was trying to make the team as strong as it could be. Did he make a mistake if he was looking for a PG willing to ride the pine and get a few minutes behind Rector and McEwen? A PG who wouldn't be a threat to McEwen. No.

USU under Morrill and now under Duryea has made a huge mistake by not cultivating a good relationship with CSI. Other coaches in the area attend the CSI coaches camp annually. Boise State and Utah among them. But USU hasn't. So who do you think Jared Phay at CSI will counsel Hendricks to in a couple of years when he has multiple offers? Or who do you think he'll counsel the big to from VCU who just signed there? Or the high scoring guard from Washington? It won't be USU.

Britto will be the next Henry Bolton, and Duryea won't make it as a head coach. Hopefully the next head coach will be smarter and realize that he should take advantage of a national power JC just a few hours away.

I would bet my house that TD would love to have a good relationship with CSI and this is not a matter of IQ.

I would bet that I.M.Noone is a close friend or relative of Hendricks.

I.M.Noone wrote:There's no comparison between the two players. Hendricks is better. Did Duryea make a mistake? He made a mistake if he was trying to make the team as strong as it could be. Did he make a mistake if he was looking for a PG willing to ride the pine and get a few minutes behind Rector and McEwen? A PG who wouldn't be a threat to McEwen. No.

USU under Morrill and now under Duryea has made a huge mistake by not cultivating a good relationship with CSI. Other coaches in the area attend the CSI coaches camp annually. Boise State and Utah among them. But USU hasn't. So who do you think Jared Phay at CSI will counsel Hendricks to in a couple of years when he has multiple offers? Or who do you think he'll counsel the big to from VCU who just signed there? Or the high scoring guard from Washington? It won't be USU.

Britto will be the next Henry Bolton, and Duryea won't make it as a head coach. Hopefully the next head coach will be smarter and realize that he should take advantage of a national power JC just a few hours away.

Can you show me a single player out of CSI who has transferred to any Utah or Idaho school in the past 10 years or so? I looked into this once and couldn't find a single example where this has ever happened. And if you look at CSI's roster, they usually have very few players from the region. They seem to recruit from all over the country, so most of their players wouldn't have any particular reason to transfer to a school that's nearby. If USU never recruited CSI and Utah/BYU/Weber/BSU were regularly getting players from there, I would be concerned. But as far as I can tell, none of these schools are getting any players from there, either. Given that fact, I've never understood why so many people on this board insist on bashing our coaching staff for not spending more time recruiting transfers from CSI.

We screwed the pooch by not recruiting Lone Peak. Our coaches should have spent all of our time down their building good relationships with their coaches. Look at what might have been. Hopefully our next head coach will be smarter.

StanfordAggie wrote:

I.M.Noone wrote:There's no comparison between the two players. Hendricks is better. Did Duryea make a mistake? He made a mistake if he was trying to make the team as strong as it could be. Did he make a mistake if he was looking for a PG willing to ride the pine and get a few minutes behind Rector and McEwen? A PG who wouldn't be a threat to McEwen. No.

USU under Morrill and now under Duryea has made a huge mistake by not cultivating a good relationship with CSI. Other coaches in the area attend the CSI coaches camp annually. Boise State and Utah among them. But USU hasn't. So who do you think Jared Phay at CSI will counsel Hendricks to in a couple of years when he has multiple offers? Or who do you think he'll counsel the big to from VCU who just signed there? Or the high scoring guard from Washington? It won't be USU.

Britto will be the next Henry Bolton, and Duryea won't make it as a head coach. Hopefully the next head coach will be smarter and realize that he should take advantage of a national power JC just a few hours away.

Can you show me a single player out of CSI who has transferred to any Utah or Idaho school in the past 10 years or so? I looked into this once and couldn't find a single example where this has ever happened. And if you look at CSI's roster, they usually have very few players from the region. They seem to recruit from all over the country, so most of their players wouldn't have any particular reason to transfer to a school that's nearby. If USU never recruited CSI and Utah/BYU/Weber/BSU were regularly getting players from there, I would be concerned. But as far as I can tell, none of these schools are getting any players from there, either. Given that fact, I've never understood why so many people on this board insist on bashing our coaching staff for not spending more time recruiting transfers from CSI.

Really!
Montigo Alford BSU
Reggie Larry BSU
Daequon Montreal BSU
Kenny Buckner BSU
Jay Watkins Utah
Nick Hansen Weber
EJ Boyce San Jose

Those are just a few off the top of my head from the past few years. Not going to take the time to look them all up, but USU should build a good relationship with CSI. It is too close not too. Can't hurt anything.



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Reggie Larry is the only player I see on that list.

We missed Tyler Haws, Jackson Emery, TJ Haws, Erika Micah, Nick Emery, and Frank Jackson. I'd take those players over your list except Larry.

dyedblue wrote:Reggie Larry is the only player I see on that list.

We missed Tyler Haws, Jackson Emery, TJ Haws, Erika Micah, Nick Emery, and Frank Jackson. I'd take those players over your list except Larry.

Come on, are you serious? That would've been a serious waste of time and resources by the USU coaching staff. Those kids were byu all the way and would have never come to usu over byu. The only way they weren't going to byu is if a top 3 program in the nation came calling like in the case of Frank Jackson (though he was the least byu guy of them all).

Of course I'm kidding. It just shows the fallacy of saying a coach sucks because we don't waste time recruiting where there is little to gain. I don't think we have missed much by not owning every player coming out of CSI. It would be just as ridiculous of a waste of time to recruit kids that are all in for BYU.

Cardell Butler

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treesap32 wrote:Cardell Butler

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10 years was the timeframe in question. He was recruited probably about 15 years ago.


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treesap32 wrote:Cardell Butler

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Cardell was a great player for USU, but he wasn't going to come here, he was going to UTEP. The only reason he ended up here was that he didn't qualify out of JC and UTEP wasn't willing to take a chance that he was going to get his academics in order. So he came here. We weren't his first choice, we were more like his last chance.

Curtis Bobb would be a better example. But Curtis came to USU because Morrill had recruited him while Stew was at Colorado State. Bobb was 1st team all state in Colorado. It had nothing to do with any good relationship with CSI.

2 of the best JC programs in the nation are within a few hours drive from Logan. SLCC and CSI. There is no reason, considering how dependent we are on JC players, and have been for decades, to not place non qualifying recruits at both programs. JC coaches love that, and it's a win/win.

One comment: it's interesting that many seem to assume not recruiting Rawson out of high school was a mistake even though he has still never played a minute of D1 basketball. Perhaps he will be a star for the Utes, but perhaps he'll be a bench warmer. And perhaps he was a kid who developed like crazy in the past two years, but simply didn't look to most analysts like he had D1 talent out of high school.

It's like using hindsight to say that an NBA GM with a lottery pick should have selected a particular 2nd rounder instead of the lottery selection they made when the 2nd rounder outperforms the lottery pick. Judges of talent utilize the tools they have at the time to make the best decisions they can. Some certainly do it better than others, but only hindsight tells us, for example, that at least 8 of the top 10 lottery pick holders in the 2006 draft were wrong to spend top 10 picks on the likes of Andrea Bargnani, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, Brandon Roy, Randy Foye, Patrick O'Bryant, and Saer Sene when they should have instead taken second round pick Paul Millsap. To suggest now that all of those GMs and their scouts are poor judges of talent because Millsap has been more successful in the NBA than any of those top 10 picks would be based purely on 20/20 hindsight. No one can predict with any infallible certainty which players will succeed and which will not. To say now that USU made a mistake not recruiting Rawson out of HS when no other D1 college recruited him either is a bit bizarre.

What I can say is that I have never been as excited about an incoming class of players in all my years of cheering for Aggie hoops as I am this year. Perhaps my excitement will be misplaced, but I certainly hope not . . . .

ChicAggie wrote:One comment: it's interesting that many seem to assume not recruiting Rawson out of high school was a mistake even though he has still never played a minute of D1 basketball. Perhaps he will be a star for the Utes, but perhaps he'll be a bench warmer. And perhaps he was a kid who developed like crazy in the past two years, but simply didn't look to most analysts like he had D1 talent out of high school.

It's like using hindsight to say that an NBA GM with a lottery pick should have selected a particular 2nd rounder instead of the lottery selection they made when the 2nd rounder outperforms the lottery pick. Judges of talent utilize the tools they have at the time to make the best decisions they can. Some certainly do it better than others, but only hindsight tells us, for example, that at least 8 of the top 10 lottery pick holders in the 2006 draft were wrong to spend top 10 picks on the likes of Andrea Bargnani, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, Brandon Roy, Randy Foye, Patrick O'Bryant, and Saer Sene when they should have instead taken second round pick Paul Millsap. To suggest now that all of those GMs and their scouts are poor judges of talent because Millsap has been more successful in the NBA than any of those top 10 picks would be based purely on 20/20 hindsight. No one can predict with any infallible certainty which players will succeed and which will not. To say now that USU made a mistake not recruiting Rawson out of HS when no other D1 college recruited him either is a bit bizarre.

What I can say is that I have never been as excited about an incoming class of players in all my years of cheering for Aggie hoops as I am this year. Perhaps my excitement will be misplaced, but I certainly hope not . . . .

Hendricks may turn out to be the better player. But if he such a can't miss product. Why didn't any school in the state or even Idaho State offer a scholarship?

2004AG wrote:

treesap32 wrote:Cardell Butler

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10 years was the timeframe in question. He was recruited probably about 15 years ago.


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Yep

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Carlito DaSilva?

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Donman wrote:Carlito DaSilva?

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Sic 'em 2004AG!

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treesap32 wrote:

Donman wrote:Carlito DaSilva?

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Sic 'em 2004AG!

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Yes I'm aware that Carlito played in the early 90s.

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ChicAggie wrote:One comment: it's interesting that many seem to assume not recruiting Rawson out of high school was a mistake even though he has still never played a minute of D1 basketball. Perhaps he will be a star for the Utes, but perhaps he'll be a bench warmer. And perhaps he was a kid who developed like crazy in the past two years, but simply didn't look to most analysts like he had D1 talent out of high school.

It's like using hindsight to say that an NBA GM with a lottery pick should have selected a particular 2nd rounder instead of the lottery selection they made when the 2nd rounder outperforms the lottery pick. Judges of talent utilize the tools they have at the time to make the best decisions they can. Some certainly do it better than others, but only hindsight tells us, for example, that at least 8 of the top 10 lottery pick holders in the 2006 draft were wrong to spend top 10 picks on the likes of Andrea Bargnani, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, Brandon Roy, Randy Foye, Patrick O'Bryant, and Saer Sene when they should have instead taken second round pick Paul Millsap. To suggest now that all of those GMs and their scouts are poor judges of talent because Millsap has been more successful in the NBA than any of those top 10 picks would be based purely on 20/20 hindsight. No one can predict with any infallible certainty which players will succeed and which will not. To say now that USU made a mistake not recruiting Rawson out of HS when no other D1 college recruited him either is a bit bizarre.

What I can say is that I have never been as excited about an incoming class of players in all my years of cheering for Aggie hoops as I am this year. Perhaps my excitement will be misplaced, but I certainly hope not . . . .

That's incorrect. Rawson played an entire year of D1 ball. He signed with SUU out of HS. He wasn't a starter, but was their 2nd leading scorer and leading rebounder as a freshman.

I look at it in a different way. IMO it's pathetic that the only D1 coach in the area who could see the potential in Rawson was the coach at SUU, and I don't see how they all could have missed. A player who after one year of D1 ball and one year of JC ball is all of the sudden a 3 star prospect with 2 PAC 12 offers, 2 MW offers, and an offer from Marquette.

Hopefully next time we hire a head coach, which should be in a year or two after next season, our AD will take player evaluation skills into account when hiring someone.

treesap32 wrote:

Donman wrote:Carlito DaSilva?

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Sic 'em 2004AG!

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Don't be so sensitive Tree.

Ihave no idea how hard or how little Stew and TD have recruited CSI, but the original point still stands, we haven't had much success during the last 10 years from that JC.

Going back 15-20, Bobb and C-Dell were really good players from CSI. I would like a better pipeline.


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We gave a scholarship to "Bad Hands" Ian McVey, but passed on Guillaume Yango from CSI who led Pacific to the NCAA tourny. That's all we need to know.

I.M.Noone wrote: I look at it in a different way. IMO it's pathetic that the only D1 coach in the area who could see the potential in Rawson was the coach at SUU, and I don't see how they all could have missed. A player who after one year of D1 ball and one year of JC ball is all of the sudden a 3 star prospect with 2 PAC 12 offers, 2 MW offers, and an offer from Marquette.

Hopefully next time we hire a head coach, which should be in a year or two after next season, our AD will take player evaluation skills into account when hiring someone.

By this reasoning all ADs should question their HC and consider replacing him EXCEPT SUU.

We realize that USU has had it's best recruiting class in years, right?

We got Mitch Bruneel from CSI five years ago.

I.M.Noone wrote:We gave a scholarship to "Bad Hands" Ian McVey, but passed on Guillaume Yango from CSI who led Pacific to the NCAA tourny. That's all we need to know.

Hindsight is fantastic isn't it?

TFBruin wrote:

StanfordAggie wrote:

I.M.Noone wrote:There's no comparison between the two players. Hendricks is better. Did Duryea make a mistake? He made a mistake if he was trying to make the team as strong as it could be. Did he make a mistake if he was looking for a PG willing to ride the pine and get a few minutes behind Rector and McEwen? A PG who wouldn't be a threat to McEwen. No.

USU under Morrill and now under Duryea has made a huge mistake by not cultivating a good relationship with CSI. Other coaches in the area attend the CSI coaches camp annually. Boise State and Utah among them. But USU hasn't. So who do you think Jared Phay at CSI will counsel Hendricks to in a couple of years when he has multiple offers? Or who do you think he'll counsel the big to from VCU who just signed there? Or the high scoring guard from Washington? It won't be USU.

Britto will be the next Henry Bolton, and Duryea won't make it as a head coach. Hopefully the next head coach will be smarter and realize that he should take advantage of a national power JC just a few hours away.

Can you show me a single player out of CSI who has transferred to any Utah or Idaho school in the past 10 years or so? I looked into this once and couldn't find a single example where this has ever happened. And if you look at CSI's roster, they usually have very few players from the region. They seem to recruit from all over the country, so most of their players wouldn't have any particular reason to transfer to a school that's nearby. If USU never recruited CSI and Utah/BYU/Weber/BSU were regularly getting players from there, I would be concerned. But as far as I can tell, none of these schools are getting any players from there, either. Given that fact, I've never understood why so many people on this board insist on bashing our coaching staff for not spending more time recruiting transfers from CSI.

Really!
Montigo Alford BSU
Reggie Larry BSU
Daequon Montreal BSU
Kenny Buckner BSU
Jay Watkins Utah
Nick Hansen Weber
EJ Boyce San Jose

Those are just a few off the top of my head from the past few years. Not going to take the time to look them all up, but USU should build a good relationship with CSI. It is too close not too. Can't hurt anything.



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