QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:55 pm

A ton of Jamaican visa applicants went to Liberty when i was there, and they were barely scraping by a very bad Jamaican education system (85% of Jamaicans are "literate" but Jamaica defines literate as "has gone to school at least one day in their life").

I have as low an opinion on Liberty as any of those TV universities in the United States, mostly due to the leadership. A private school having the same median SAT/GPA scores as a public university that accepts everybody? That's not exactly a bragging point.

They only have a 50% acceptance rate.

FloridaAggie13 wrote:

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:55 pm

A ton of Jamaican visa applicants went to Liberty when i was there, and they were barely scraping by a very bad Jamaican education system (85% of Jamaicans are "literate" but Jamaica defines literate as "has gone to school at least one day in their life").

I have as low an opinion on Liberty as any of those TV universities in the United States, mostly due to the leadership. A private school having the same median SAT/GPA scores as a public university that accepts everybody? That's not exactly a bragging point.

They only have a 50% acceptance rate.

I'm assuming they let in more international students because they're lucrative. U of Oregon did the same when I worked there, mostly with Chinese and Arab students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 4:55 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote:

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:55 pm

A ton of Jamaican visa applicants went to Liberty when i was there, and they were barely scraping by a very bad Jamaican education system (85% of Jamaicans are "literate" but Jamaica defines literate as "has gone to school at least one day in their life").

I have as low an opinion on Liberty as any of those TV universities in the United States, mostly due to the leadership. A private school having the same median SAT/GPA scores as a public university that accepts everybody? That's not exactly a bragging point.

They only have a 50% acceptance rate.

I'm assuming they let in more international students because they're lucrative. U of Oregon did the same when I worked there, mostly with Chinese and Arab students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More than 50% of their students are white, 14% black and 6% Hispanic. It doesn't sound like they are heavy into the international student (at least now) program.

FloridaAggie13 wrote:

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 4:55 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote:

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:55 pm

A ton of Jamaican visa applicants went to Liberty when i was there, and they were barely scraping by a very bad Jamaican education system (85% of Jamaicans are "literate" but Jamaica defines literate as "has gone to school at least one day in their life").

I have as low an opinion on Liberty as any of those TV universities in the United States, mostly due to the leadership. A private school having the same median SAT/GPA scores as a public university that accepts everybody? That's not exactly a bragging point.

They only have a 50% acceptance rate.

I'm assuming they let in more international students because they're lucrative. U of Oregon did the same when I worked there, mostly with Chinese and Arab students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More than 50% of their students are white, 14% black and 6% Hispanic. It doesn't sound like they are heavy into the international student (at least now) program.

It looks like 5% of in person students are international students (they say "more than 700" out of 15,800 are international). USU is 1.25% to give a comparison. Oregon is 10% and BYU 5%.

Liberty stuck out in Jamaica because many of these students didn't get into anywhere else (literally no other acceptances, or sometimes only to sketchy programs to study ESL despite being native English speakers). We assumed it was fraudulent admissions or visa fraud, but in the end they almost always turned out to be legitimate students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Texas State is now open, and they have money to spend and want to make a big jump. Oil money everywhere. It's in Blake's home state, and San Marcos is within minutes of Austin.

Might be a move that would interest a son of Texas.

I highly doubt Blake goes back to the Fun Belt for a salary probably much less then ours, to coach for like the 15th ranked FBS in that state. I could see him going to an AAC school there though.

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 5:25 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote:

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 4:55 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote:

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:55 pm

A ton of Jamaican visa applicants went to Liberty when i was there, and they were barely scraping by a very bad Jamaican education system (85% of Jamaicans are "literate" but Jamaica defines literate as "has gone to school at least one day in their life").

I have as low an opinion on Liberty as any of those TV universities in the United States, mostly due to the leadership. A private school having the same median SAT/GPA scores as a public university that accepts everybody? That's not exactly a bragging point.

They only have a 50% acceptance rate.

I'm assuming they let in more international students because they're lucrative. U of Oregon did the same when I worked there, mostly with Chinese and Arab students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More than 50% of their students are white, 14% black and 6% Hispanic. It doesn't sound like they are heavy into the international student (at least now) program.

It looks like 5% of in person students are international students (they say "more than 700" out of 15,800 are international). USU is 1.25% to give a comparison. Oregon is 10% and BYU 5%.

Liberty stuck out in Jamaica because many of these students didn't get into anywhere else (literally no other acceptances, or sometimes only to sketchy programs to study ESL despite being native English speakers). We assumed it was fraudulent admissions or visa fraud, but in the end they almost always turned out to be legitimate students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That low? It always felt that the towers alone were like 30% Dominican and the market place was staffed by seemingly a lot of Armenians.

AggiesForever wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2022, 10:04 pm

Texas State is now open, and they have money to spend and want to make a big jump. Oil money everywhere. It's in Blake's home state, and San Marcos is within minutes of Austin.

Might be a move that would interest a son of Texas.

Jake Spatival made $800,000 a year.

AggiesForever wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2022, 10:04 pm

Texas State is now open, and they have money to spend and want to make a big jump. Oil money everywhere. It's in Blake's home state, and San Marcos is within minutes of Austin.

Might be a move that would interest a son of Texas.

Austin isn't Texas

brownjeans wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2022, 10:41 pm

AggiesForever wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2022, 10:04 pm

Texas State is now open, and they have money to spend and want to make a big jump. Oil money everywhere. It's in Blake's home state, and San Marcos is within minutes of Austin.

Might be a move that would interest a son of Texas.

Austin isn't Texas

Which is Austin’s best quality.

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

USU is also a land grant, which comes with its own requirements. I would guess that even though Liberty is more "selective" in its students, the quality of students at USU is generally much higher and the career prospects of USU grads much brighter.

bwcrc wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:08 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

USU is also a land grant, which comes with its own requirements. I would guess that even though Liberty is more "selective" in its students, the quality of students at USU is generally much higher and the career prospects of USU grads much brighter.

This.

FloridaAggie, if it's so great I suggest you get a degree from Liberty. As for me, I wouldn't send my kid there, for a multitude of reasons, Academic's being one.

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

This is why I wish there was a conference full of just private schools. I can dream.

AggieFBObsession wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 8:03 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

This is why I wish there was a conference full of just private schools. I can dream.

Especially here in CA with the HS's... they ruin the CIF playoffs every year

For the record the pecking order in Virginia goes
1. UVA
2. W&M
3. Virginia Tech
4(t). Richmond, JMU, GMU, Washington & Lee, VCU(this is about where usu falls)
9(t). VMI, Hampden-Sydney, Christopher Newport (about Weber level)
12(t). Liberty, Radford, Lynchburg

It’s not easy to compare because universities are all different. Hampden Sydney for example is like the prep school of colleges. They’ll set you up because they have a great network but the actual education is lacking. GMU is a commuter school but has one of if not the best Econ & poli sci departments in the country ( in terms of quality of education- having multiple Nobel prize awardees).

I am a big fan of JMU and find it to be the most usu like in Virginia. If I were to send kids to school in Virginia id push for 1-4(t). with maybe CNU being an acceptable option.

The in person education at Liberty isn’t terrible. However the degree is very tarnished by its online offering and overall culture

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:54 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:08 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

USU is also a land grant, which comes with its own requirements. I would guess that even though Liberty is more "selective" in its students, the quality of students at USU is generally much higher and the career prospects of USU grads much brighter.

This.

FloridaAggie, if it's so great I suggest you get a degree from Liberty. As for me, I wouldn't send my kid there, for a multitude of reasons, Academic's being one.

You made the claim it was a diploma mill, which it isn't as borne out by the data. Their ACT and SAT scores is almost identical to that of students admitted to USU.

I don't care where people go to school or whether they do it online or in person. Or if they go to school at all.

I just reject your elitist, snobby attitude toward people who go to school there. I got enough of that from BYU and Utah alums while I was at USU.

bwcrc wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:08 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

USU is also a land grant, which comes with its own requirements. I would guess that even though Liberty is more "selective" in its students, the quality of students at USU is generally much higher and the career prospects of USU grads much brighter.

Yet, as in the post you replied to, the median SAT and ACT score of their student population is almost identical to that of USU's.

In my almost thirty years of professional life, no one has cared one whit about where I, or anyone around me went to college.

Never mind that liberty has a law school and a medical school.

Lynchburg U apparently has a good Physical Therapy.

It’s amazing to see all the money building such nice buildings at Liberty. Very interesting.

I don’t know about the general student population though. So I don’t think I could speak to their overall character.

crazywookie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 11:23 am

Never mind that liberty has a law school and a medical school.

Lynchburg U apparently has a good Physical Therapy.

It’s amazing to see all the money building such nice buildings at Liberty. Very interesting.

I don’t know about the general student population though. So I don’t think I could speak to their overall character.

Don't get me started on the law school. Now THAT is a scam/diploma mill.

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 1:12 pm

crazywookie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 11:23 am

Never mind that liberty has a law school and a medical school.

Lynchburg U apparently has a good Physical Therapy.

It’s amazing to see all the money building such nice buildings at Liberty. Very interesting.

I don’t know about the general student population though. So I don’t think I could speak to their overall character.

Don't get me started on the law school. Now THAT is a scam/diploma mill.

It's so much like the stench it's scary.

Liberty wants to be the Notre Dame/BYU/SMU/etc for Evangelicals.
They seem to have the money and support needed, all they need is the decades of operational improvement behind them. I have to wonder about some of the things they might teach given some of the dogmatic ideas evangelicals have about the world. I mean, in science are they teaching that the world is roughly 6,000 years old?

As for where you are going to school and whether it's a big deal - I've hired nearly 100 people at the places I've worked. I never cared where they went to school or how well they did while in school. Honestly, I don't know that I care whether they have a degree or not. Other things are more important to me - like race, gender, religion (kidding)

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

Oh my…

USU is Research 1
Liberty is Research 3 (Even Boise State is R2)

USU Psychology accredited by APA
Liberty is not

USU business AACSB accredited
Liberty is not

The quality of institutions is vastly different.

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 5:53 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

Oh my…

USU is Research 1
Liberty is Research 3 (Even Boise State is R2)

USU Psychology accredited by APA
Liberty is not

USU business AACSB accredited
Liberty is not

The quality of institutions is vastly different.

Look at their overall ranking too, down near the bottom.

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 5:53 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

Oh my…

USU is Research 1
Liberty is Research 3 (Even Boise State is R2)

USU Psychology accredited by APA
Liberty is not

USU business AACSB accredited
Liberty is not

The quality of institutions is vastly different.

Liberty has plenty accreditations. My original point stands. Based upon the data, Liberty isn't a 'diploma mill' as some asserted, and the median test scores among its students is almost identical to that of USU's; hence, they don't just open up the door to everyone and say, "Come on in."

I could care less either way, I just don't like academic snobbery. The best business people I know didn't spend a single day in a college or university class room.

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:59 pm

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 5:53 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

Oh my…

USU is Research 1
Liberty is Research 3 (Even Boise State is R2)

USU Psychology accredited by APA
Liberty is not

USU business AACSB accredited
Liberty is not

The quality of institutions is vastly different.

Liberty has plenty accreditations. My original point stands. Based upon the data, Liberty isn't a 'diploma mill' as some asserted, and the median test scores among its students is almost identical to that of USU's; hence, they don't just open up the door to everyone and say, "Come on in."

I could care less either way, I just don't like academic snobbery. The best business people I know didn't spend a single day in a college or university class room.

While there are exceptions, most CEOs attend college. 98% of S&P 500 CEOs graduated from college.

I’m guessing most prefer their medical doctors and lawyers spend a few days in the classroom as well.

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 10:13 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:59 pm

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 5:53 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

Oh my…

USU is Research 1
Liberty is Research 3 (Even Boise State is R2)

USU Psychology accredited by APA
Liberty is not

USU business AACSB accredited
Liberty is not

The quality of institutions is vastly different.

Liberty has plenty accreditations. My original point stands. Based upon the data, Liberty isn't a 'diploma mill' as some asserted, and the median test scores among its students is almost identical to that of USU's; hence, they don't just open up the door to everyone and say, "Come on in."

I could care less either way, I just don't like academic snobbery. The best business people I know didn't spend a single day in a college or university class room.

While there are exceptions, most CEOs attend college. 98% of S&P 500 CEOs graduated from college.

I’m guessing most prefer their medical doctors and lawyers spend a few days in the classroom as well.

I think we have drifted away from the point I was countering. Depending on what data you read, about half of all business owners have a degree and there are far more business owners and businessmen than there are corporate CEO's. Though a degree and an MBA provide a board of directors with something 'tangible' in which they can measure a CEO candidate. Yes, I agree, I don't want Dr. Nick Riviera from the Simpsons removing my thyroid, nor do I want Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld drawing up my family trust.

I'm not arguing Liberty is somehow the Harvard of the south (I think Harvard is grossly overrated anyway), just that isn't some diploma mill mass printing degrees. "Welcome to freshman orientation, don't forget to pick up your diploma at the end of the session. Engineering degrees are at the blue table, finance the red table, and so on..."

They embraced the concept of remote learning long before COVID hit. While I still believe in-person studies are the most effective for learning, I know some people who did much better online than in class and without that option, probably wouldn't have earned their degree.

All good!

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 11:12 am

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:54 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:08 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

USU is also a land grant, which comes with its own requirements. I would guess that even though Liberty is more "selective" in its students, the quality of students at USU is generally much higher and the career prospects of USU grads much brighter.

This.

FloridaAggie, if it's so great I suggest you get a degree from Liberty. As for me, I wouldn't send my kid there, for a multitude of reasons, Academic's being one.

You made the claim it was a diploma mill, which it isn't as borne out by the data. Their ACT and SAT scores is almost identical to that of students admitted to USU.

I don't care where people go to school or whether they do it online or in person. Or if they go to school at all.

I just reject your elitist, snobby attitude toward people who go to school there. I got enough of that from BYU and Utah alums while I was at USU.

There's really no need to make personal attacks mate.

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

December 2nd, 2022, 10:31 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 11:12 am

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:54 am

bwcrc wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:08 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

StanfordAggie wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 12:04 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 2:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

November 29th, 2022, 1:32 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

November 28th, 2022, 9:17 pm

Liberty is a fake University.
It’s a Diploma mill.

Liberty has a far lower acceptance rate than, say, Utah State (50.1% vs 91%), with similar median SAT and ACT scores among accepted students. Liberty also has regional accreditation which is seen as more prestigious than national accreditation and thus, is well respected by graduate schools.

Liberty has a 29% graduation rate vs a 50% rate at USU, so it is certainly not a diploma mill.

1. Their acceptance rate is a bit misleading, they have a student population of 110K, they get a lot of applications because they are a first come/apply first serve rolling application review. They aren't necessarily taking the best and brightest applicants and turning others away.

2. 29% graduation rate is not good at all. That's the problem with many of these so-called religious private schools that claim they are not for profit, how much did they have to pay JF Jr. to go away again? Yea it's not a diploma mill but their aren't retaining that many as they move through their system, you have to wonder why that is?

3. Look at their national ranking, it's near the bottom.

Their SAT and ACT score averages are exactly in-line with USU's. If they aren't taking the best and brightest then neither is USU.

Liberty's graduation rate as of 2020 was over 50% but I've also seen the 29%. Considering the ratio of part time to full time students is far higher than with other doctoral institutions, I would assume a lower graduation rate. I imagine this is due to their heavy online presence catering to people going to school while juggling a family and full-time work.

You say Jerry Falwell Jr. and someone else will say Torrey Green. Falwell wasn't a serial rapist being covered up by the university because he could run fast and tackle really well.

See how that works?

The big issue with Liberty is that they offer an enormous number of online degrees and accept basically anyone who is willing to pay. The rigor of these classes is generally very low, and safeguards against cheating are practically non-existent. Virtually anyone can get a degree from Liberty if they are willing to pay for the classes and a tutor (who may or may not do the work for them). I don't know that it is a full-blown diploma mill, but it is about as close as you can get to a diploma mill while still being accredited.

Liberty has tons of money to spend on athletics due to all the tuition money they are earning from their online students. But the lack of academic rigor is the reason no conference wants them despite their P5-level budget and athletic success. There are probably coaches out there who would be content to cash a large paycheck while beating CUSA opponents. But it's probably not a good destination for any coach that has ambitions of coaching at a higher level than CUSA. (Yes, Huge Freeze managed to escape, but he was a proven P5 coach who had been tainted by scandal.)

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

USU is also a land grant, which comes with its own requirements. I would guess that even though Liberty is more "selective" in its students, the quality of students at USU is generally much higher and the career prospects of USU grads much brighter.

This.

FloridaAggie, if it's so great I suggest you get a degree from Liberty. As for me, I wouldn't send my kid there, for a multitude of reasons, Academic's being one.

You made the claim it was a diploma mill, which it isn't as borne out by the data. Their ACT and SAT scores is almost identical to that of students admitted to USU.

I don't care where people go to school or whether they do it online or in person. Or if they go to school at all.

I just reject your elitist, snobby attitude toward people who go to school there. I got enough of that from BYU and Utah alums while I was at USU.

There's really no need to make personal attacks mate.

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 3:38 am

Liberty has an acceptance rate of 50%. USU has an acceptance rate of over 90%. The median SAT and ACT scores among those accepted is almost identical in both schools.

These numbers don't mean much without knowing more details about how they were collected. My guess is that they don't include online students. My understanding is that their online programs accept anyone who is willing to write a tuition check.

More fundamentally, it is problematic to assume that selectivity tells you anything about the quality of the education you will receive at a university. USU's charter is to provide an education to as many people as possible. USU could easily become more "selective" by reducing its class size, and it would probably move up in the college rankings if it did. The fact that instead it tries to offer a college education to more people should be commended, not criticized. Maybe acceptance rates and SAT scores tell you something if you try to compare schools like Harvard and Dartmouth (although even then it is a problematic criterion), but it is basically meaningless for comparing schools like USU whose mission is to educate as many students as possible rather than win a "prestige" genitalia measuring contest.

Sorry for the tangential rant. It's a pet peeve. I haven't looked into Liberty's online programs in detail. Maybe they have improved in recent years. But in the past, I have read articles criticizing them for very low standards when it comes to their online courses. And I find that easy to believe given that they have an athletic budget that rivals lower-tier P5 programs yet no conference wants them other than a dying CUSA.

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:59 pm

Liberty has plenty accreditations. My original point stands. Based upon the data, Liberty isn't a 'diploma mill' as some asserted, and the median test scores among its students is almost identical to that of USU's; hence, they don't just open up the door to everyone and say, "Come on in."

I could care less either way, I just don't like academic snobbery. The best business people I know didn't spend a single day in a college or university class room.

I don't believe it is "snobbery" to dislike a university that 1) admits basically everyone who is willing to write tuition check, 2) has a very high tuition rate compared to public universities, 3) has a very low graduation rate, 4) has very low employment rates and starting salaries for those who do graduate. If anything qualifies as "snobbery," I would say that it would be comparing SAT scores of admitted students rather than comparing outcomes of the students who attend these schools.

USU has very lenient admission standards. It will only reject you if they think you are not prepared to do college-level work, and even then they will encourage you to go to the community college and try again. Tuition is under $9,000 per year, around half of students graduate, the majority of graduating students find jobs if they want them, and median pay is about $50,000 per year. Liberty charges around $30,000 per year in tuition, only 29% of students graduate, and the median starting pay is around $40,000. So I do not apologize for saying that USU is a better school than Liberty. It seems apparent to me that Liberty's business model is to maximize the amount of tuition money that they can deposit rather than making sure that their students have the best possible outcomes, and I think that is wrong.

StanfordAggie wrote:

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 7:59 pm

Liberty has plenty accreditations. My original point stands. Based upon the data, Liberty isn't a 'diploma mill' as some asserted, and the median test scores among its students is almost identical to that of USU's; hence, they don't just open up the door to everyone and say, "Come on in."

I could care less either way, I just don't like academic snobbery. The best business people I know didn't spend a single day in a college or university class room.

I don't believe it is "snobbery" to dislike a university that 1) admits basically everyone who is willing to write tuition check, 2) has a very high tuition rate compared to public universities, 3) has a very low graduation rate, 4) has very low employment rates and starting salaries for those who do graduate. If anything qualifies as "snobbery," I would say that it would be comparing SAT scores of admitted students rather than comparing outcomes of the students who attend these schools.

USU has very lenient admission standards. It will only reject you if they think you are not prepared to do college-level work, and even then they will encourage you to go to the community college and try again. Tuition is under $9,000 per year, around half of students graduate, the majority of graduating students find jobs if they want them, and median pay is about $50,000 per year. Liberty charges around $30,000 per year in tuition, only 29% of students graduate, and the median starting pay is around $40,000. So I do not apologize for saying that USU is a better school than Liberty. It seems apparent to me that Liberty's business model is to maximize the amount of tuition money that they can deposit rather than making sure that their students have the best possible outcomes, and I think that is wrong.

If liberty has the same SAT scores as usu with a 50% rejection rate, imagine the scores of the 50% it's refusing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Imakeitrain wrote: ↑

December 1st, 2022, 8:46 am

For the record the pecking order in Virginia goes
1. UVA
2. W&M
3. Virginia Tech
4(t). Richmond, JMU, GMU, Washington & Lee, VCU(this is about where usu falls)
9(t). VMI, Hampden-Sydney, Christopher Newport (about Weber level)
12(t). Liberty, Radford, Lynchburg

It’s not easy to compare because universities are all different. Hampden Sydney for example is like the prep school of colleges. They’ll set you up because they have a great network but the actual education is lacking. GMU is a commuter school but has one of if not the best Econ & poli sci departments in the country ( in terms of quality of education- having multiple Nobel prize awardees).

I am a big fan of JMU and find it to be the most usu like in Virginia. If I were to send kids to school in Virginia id push for 1-4(t). with maybe CNU being an acceptable option.

The in person education at Liberty isn’t terrible. However the degree is very tarnished by its online offering and overall culture

How dare you forget one of the most important schools in Virginia, SVU - the wannabe yBu of the east.