Utah State Football needs a Shift in Identity.

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm

Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?

QuackAttackAggie · Post by **QuackAttackAggie** » November 25th, 2022, 4:52 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote:Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?

Yeah let's just get rid of the forward pass too. If all we can do against the number 4 defense in football is put up 468 yards, let's model ourselves after Iowa, like you say.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 25th, 2022, 4:56 pm

I’m not saying we can’t put up points. Plenty of teams put up points in pro style offenses. We just decide to do it in a way that is conducive to winning in our conference and not with a bunch of gimicks.

blueaggie · Post by **blueaggie** » November 25th, 2022, 5:07 pm

I thought we were conference champions last year.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » November 25th, 2022, 5:24 pm

The spread offense isn't a gimmick. Over the last decade or so, teams like Alabama shifted from the power run days of classic SEC football to the spread offense. It puts far more pressure on the defense, and I would argue it is easier to recruit the players needed.

There are far more high school athletes who can be an effective spread offense QB in college than there are high school QB's who can transition into a pocket passer.

We do need more size along both lines of scrimmage in order to be more consistent in the run game as BA acknowledged last year.

AggiesAreMoney · Post by **AggiesAreMoney** » November 25th, 2022, 6:06 pm

I understand the sentiment. I think to generate long term, sustained success, a program like USU needs to be innovative. Innovation led to BYU’s long-term success. (Not that I want to compare anything we do here to BYU-Provo.) My question would be, is the spread offense still the innovative offense or is it maybe time to find a new way or even an old, out-of-style way to play football. A lot of other teams, especially a lot of the big boys, have adopted the spread. Are we all dipping into the same bucket to create a successful offense? Does that put a smaller, lesser-known program like ours at a disadvantage?

Post by **GeoAg** » November 25th, 2022, 6:12 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm
Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?

Disagree, we have had much better success with the spread than Wyoming has with what you suggest, the last two head to head games notwithstanding.

Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » November 25th, 2022, 6:15 pm

I’d think our weaknesses would be weaker if we abandoned the spread. It’s a lot easier to find and train speed than it is to find big bodies needed to play smash mouth.

coolag · Post by **coolag** » November 25th, 2022, 6:29 pm

Our spread is almost too spread. Switch it up a little. Run some double tight. Some misdirection. You don't have to run the same offense over and over and over and over............and for hells sake recruit some mean olineman.

trevordude · Post by **trevordude** » November 25th, 2022, 6:33 pm

I think some adjustments would be ok, but we are going to be a spread offense under this staff and likely the next.

I would love if having two recivers outside the numbers was a wrinkle and not a default. Also would love the ability to go under center like 5 plays a game.

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 25th, 2022, 6:55 pm

coolag wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 6:29 pm
Our spread is almost too spread. Switch it up a little. Run some double tight. Some misdirection. You don't have to run the same offense over and over and over and over............and for hells sake recruit some mean olineman.

This is my thought process. It’s okay to have some spread aspects, but we should have the ability to also be under center and play smash mouth if the situation calls for it. We’re too much spread, so our running game turns into delays handoffs which is easy to bottle up.

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 25th, 2022, 6:56 pm

GeoAg wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 6:12 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm
Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?
Disagree, we have had much better success with the spread than Wyoming has with what you suggest, the last two head to head games notwithstanding.

Recruiting to Logan, UT would be a lot easier than Laramie WYO

Madmartigan · Post by **Madmartigan** » November 25th, 2022, 7:26 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 6:56 pm

GeoAg wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 6:12 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm
Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?
Disagree, we have had much better success with the spread than Wyoming has with what you suggest, the last two head to head games notwithstanding.
Recruiting to Logan, UT would be a lot easier than Laramie WYO

Not sure it’s a change in offensive scheme we need. What we need is more continuity. Replacing head coaches every 4-5 years is not a recipe for sustained success and culture building. Boise had Petersen for a lot longer and built upon their past success that way.

jazzdog56466 · Post by **jazzdog56466** » November 25th, 2022, 8:15 pm

I agree with the thought—-although I don’t think a team has to run one or the other exclusively. Find a way to run some power, while still spreading the field. I loved the pistol play action looks Chuckie ran in 2011 and 2012. Could go 5 wide out of the gun, but could also go under center and do a variety of things.

This spread offense is hard to watch. Having a bad O line limits us, but I thought our best success in the run game has come with power packages, and using tight ends and pulling guards.

The issues right now are (as has been mentioned) the pass game is so predictable. For some reason, every route seems to be directly to the sideline. At times we make our quarterback throw 30 yards across the field to complete a 6 yard pass.

Would love to see more seam routes, crossing routes, tight end usage, RB screens, and general utilization of the middle of the field.

As the original poster says—you can do both. We can still spread the field, but mix in a pistol like play action every now and then. This current spread offense bores the hell out of me, and puts so much pressure on the defense, who is usually on the field for the majority of the game.

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » November 25th, 2022, 9:12 pm

I think the current offense could get a lot better schematically and incorporate the TE and add more varied running plays but our best seasons in recent memory (and maybe ever) have used space and pace offenses. We haven’t been able to recruit the size on the lines needed to play bully ball. Spread can negate size disadvantages.

I really liked the offense in 2012-13 but not sure that would work now. The talent at OL and RB on those teams would be hard to replicate.

Hoot · Post by **Hoot** » November 25th, 2022, 9:33 pm

We’ve got to be more diverse offensively. You can run spread sets and pro sets. Even my pathetic high school team was capable of that.

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » November 25th, 2022, 11:43 pm

Been waiting to see some under center wrinkles to this offense for over a decade.

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 26th, 2022, 1:52 pm

Michigan put up 45 points on the road in a Pro style, smash mouth style offense. That’s what Utah State should pattern their offense like. Big physical and nasty in the trenches, with our current explosive weapons on the perimeter. It can be done. Obviously not to the extent that Michigan can cracker of recruiting differences but at our level it could be done.

Post by **AGinNEIowa** » November 26th, 2022, 2:15 pm

Yup, USU recruits the bigger and stronger brothers of Michigan's Oline.

Post by **aggies22** » November 26th, 2022, 3:32 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 11:43 pm
Been waiting to see some under center wrinkles to this offense for over a decade.

The only under center wrinkle you'll see is victory formation.

GoldcoastAggie · Post by **GoldcoastAggie** » November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm

We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.

truzzy · Post by **truzzy** » November 26th, 2022, 4:13 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm
Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?

Ya let’s run Texas A&M’s offense. Average 21 PPG. That sounds fun to watch. This is stupid. There are plenty of really good high level teams that run the spread.

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 26th, 2022, 6:18 pm

GoldcoastAggie wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm
We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.

We have undersized lineman currently because the coaching staff tells the strength staff to lean out our guys to a lesser playing weight because we play up tempo with the goal to have a lot of plays.. Pule Alo came in at 340. He’s now 280 soaking wet. We can develop the size if we want. Wyoming doesn’t have a problem. Utah State is much more desirable of a place to go then WYO.

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » November 26th, 2022, 6:24 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:18 pm

GoldcoastAggie wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm
We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.
We have undersized lineman currently because the coaching staff tells the strength staff to lean out our guys to a lesser playing weight because we play up tempo with the goal to have a lot of plays.. Pule Alo came in at 340. He’s now 280 soaking wet. We can develop the size if we want. Wyoming doesn’t have a problem. Utah State is much more desirable of a place to go then WYO.

We’ve been far more successful than Wyoming since joining the MW. Why should be try and emulate them and not the other way around?

AggieGrad2021 · Post by **AggieGrad2021** » November 26th, 2022, 6:37 pm

Intermeddler wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:24 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:18 pm

GoldcoastAggie wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm
We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.
We have undersized lineman currently because the coaching staff tells the strength staff to lean out our guys to a lesser playing weight because we play up tempo with the goal to have a lot of plays.. Pule Alo came in at 340. He’s now 280 soaking wet. We can develop the size if we want. Wyoming doesn’t have a problem. Utah State is much more desirable of a place to go then WYO.
We’ve been far more successful than Wyoming since joining the MW. Why should be try and emulate them and not the other way around?

Wyoming has now beat us 2 years in a row. Would be 3 if we played in 2020. Wyoming struggles because they don’t have enough speed. Which we have. Regardless, we wouldn’t be going total Wyoming. We’d take some things, while also having some spread abilities. Our offense was rather good in 2012, wouldn’t you say?

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » November 26th, 2022, 6:59 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:37 pm

Intermeddler wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:24 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:18 pm

GoldcoastAggie wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm
We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.
We have undersized lineman currently because the coaching staff tells the strength staff to lean out our guys to a lesser playing weight because we play up tempo with the goal to have a lot of plays.. Pule Alo came in at 340. He’s now 280 soaking wet. We can develop the size if we want. Wyoming doesn’t have a problem. Utah State is much more desirable of a place to go then WYO.
We’ve been far more successful than Wyoming since joining the MW. Why should be try and emulate them and not the other way around?
Wyoming has now beat us 2 years in a row. Would be 3 if we played in 2020. Wyoming struggles because they don’t have enough speed. Which we have. Regardless, we wouldn’t be going total Wyoming. We’d take some things, while also having some spread abilities. Our offense was rather good in 2012, wouldn’t you say?

So because they’ve beaten us twice recently we should shift our approach entirely despite winning a conference title and finishing top 20 in one of those years?

Our offense was good in 2012 but better in 2018 and 2021.

I’m fine with either approach. Any offense can work with the right talent but not sure why Wyoming is your model.

GoldcoastAggie · Post by **GoldcoastAggie** » November 27th, 2022, 1:46 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:18 pm

GoldcoastAggie wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm
We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.
We have undersized lineman currently because the coaching staff tells the strength staff to lean out our guys to a lesser playing weight because we play up tempo with the goal to have a lot of plays.. Pule Alo came in at 340. He’s now 280 soaking wet. We can develop the size if we want. Wyoming doesn’t have a problem. Utah State is much more desirable of a place to go then WYO.

Just because guys can gain fat doesn’t mean they can be effective at those weights while maintaining athleticism. Getting a bunch of fat slow linemen is not a recipe for success.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » November 27th, 2022, 3:21 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm
Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?

The reasons that most college teams have gone spread really is simplicity. Compared to the pros you have massive turnover and even more with the portal. Most of the staff's offseason time is consumed by recruiting. The spread reads are simple to run and audible in compared to a prostyle offense. Its basically 10 plays if that flips sides and gaps run out of a few different formations with basic pass patterns. Same with the air raid and the previous run and shoot concepts that was based on.

I love power too and would love to go that route but it takes a staff completely committed to it and time to build it. Fans think its boring and other than the top qb recruits who may be willing to go to an Alabama type pro style system its a hard go recruiting wise.

I also think teams are really nervous going under center unless they do it almost exclusively. Very high fumbled snap rates and QBs are uncomfortable.

On defense you play to your opponent. Its not a formation issue but a philosophy one that I have a problem with Banda. LBs aren't disciplined at all because they don't care. They stunt out of their gaps all day long by design and so its feast or famine.

To your point about the best of the conference. It sounds good until you realize that Boise has bigger stronger, quicker, and more athletic front 7 D recruits than us by far. As much as I love power how do you think those matchups would have played out any better?

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » November 27th, 2022, 6:38 pm

hickaggie wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 3:21 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 25th, 2022, 4:48 pm
Enough with the Spread Offense. Enough with the 6 man fronts on defense. We’re in Logan, UT. We play in the MWC. We need to be big and physical. Why don’t we develop a Pro style offense. 12/22 personnel, QB under center. Mix in some Shotgun. Power Run. Why is this so difficult? Why are we so infatuated with fast, finesse, spread offenses when it clearly doesn’t work against the best of the best in the conference consistently.

Is it just me?
The reasons that most college teams have gone spread really is simplicity. Compared to the pros you have massive turnover and even more with the portal. Most of the staff's offseason time is consumed by recruiting. The spread reads are simple to run and audible in compared to a prostyle offense. Its basically 10 plays if that flips sides and gaps run out of a few different formations with basic pass patterns. Same with the air raid and the previous run and shoot concepts that was based on.

I love power too and would love to go that route but it takes a staff completely committed to it and time to build it. Fans think its boring and other than the top qb recruits who may be willing to go to an Alabama type pro style system its a hard go recruiting wise.

I also think teams are really nervous going under center unless they do it almost exclusively. Very high fumbled snap rates and QBs are uncomfortable.

On defense you play to your opponent. Its not a formation issue but a philosophy one that I have a problem with Banda. LBs aren't disciplined at all because they don't care. They stunt out of their gaps all day long by design and so its feast or famine.

To your point about the best of the conference. It sounds good until you realize that Boise has bigger stronger, quicker, and more athletic front 7 D recruits than us by far. As much as I love power how do you think those matchups would have played out any better?

Agree 100%. I have been cautious about this defense for this reason since Banda got here as it was a crippling issue for the other team I follow with Manny Diaz as DC then HC. Setting the edge and gap responsibility are just not emphasized in favor of splitting gaps or getting into the backfield. If you have really good LBs it can work most of the time (and safeties to clean up the mess) but good OLs and offenses can exploit it. Banda has actually done a much better job as DC than I expected.

Agree on the rest. A system like Michigan's is actually my preference but it is really hard to get the personnel and you need consistency with your staff and players that probably isn't realistic here. It also limits your recruiting pool. Most receivers and QBs want to play in a system like ours. I also like that we use pace given our advantage over teams that are not used to dealing with altitude when we play them at home. I think it made a difference in the UConn game for example.

I am just not sure why anyone would objectively look at our program and Wyoming's over the last 5-10 years and think we should be more like them.

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » November 27th, 2022, 7:40 pm

Um, there is a strong argument that our strength staff should train the guys developing them in the offseason like it's done at Wyoming to try to make the linemen into the type of guys we need to play smashmouth football. But of course that doesn't mean that as far as scheming during the season, we should do it like it's done at Wyoming.

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » November 27th, 2022, 7:59 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 7:40 pm
Um, there is a strong argument that our strength staff should train the guys developing them in the offseason like it's done at Wyoming to try to make the linemen into the type of guys we need to play smashmouth football. But of course that doesn't mean that as far as scheming during the season, we should do it like it's done at Wyoming.

Why would we train our OL to do something contrary to our scheme?

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » November 27th, 2022, 8:11 pm

Intermeddler wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 7:59 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 7:40 pm
Um, there is a strong argument that our strength staff should train the guys developing them in the offseason like it's done at Wyoming to try to make the linemen into the type of guys we need to play smashmouth football. But of course that doesn't mean that as far as scheming during the season, we should do it like it's done at Wyoming.
Why would we train our OL to do something contrary to our scheme?

Linemen capable of overpowering guys are also going to be just as capable of blocking for only the few seconds needed to run a spread and speed based offense.

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » November 27th, 2022, 8:20 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 8:11 pm

Intermeddler wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 7:59 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑
November 27th, 2022, 7:40 pm
Um, there is a strong argument that our strength staff should train the guys developing them in the offseason like it's done at Wyoming to try to make the linemen into the type of guys we need to play smashmouth football. But of course that doesn't mean that as far as scheming during the season, we should do it like it's done at Wyoming.
Why would we train our OL to do something contrary to our scheme?
Linemen capable of overpowering guys are also going to be just as capable of blocking for only the few seconds needed to run a spread and speed based offense.

So we want to add size and bulk to our OL and have them play at near the fastest pace in the country?

Harcher · Post by **Harcher** » November 27th, 2022, 8:41 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:37 pm

Intermeddler wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:24 pm

AggieGrad2021 wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 6:18 pm

GoldcoastAggie wrote: ↑
November 26th, 2022, 3:35 pm
We will never be able to recruit the types of lineman or running backs you need to play Michigans style. We play the spread because it gives us a chance with undersized guys.
We have undersized lineman currently because the coaching staff tells the strength staff to lean out our guys to a lesser playing weight because we play up tempo with the goal to have a lot of plays.. Pule Alo came in at 340. He’s now 280 soaking wet. We can develop the size if we want. Wyoming doesn’t have a problem. Utah State is much more desirable of a place to go then WYO.
We’ve been far more successful than Wyoming since joining the MW. Why should be try and emulate them and not the other way around?
Wyoming has now beat us 2 years in a row. Would be 3 if we played in 2020. Wyoming struggles because they don’t have enough speed. Which we have. Regardless, we wouldn’t be going total Wyoming. We’d take some things, while also having some spread abilities. Our offense was rather good in 2012, wouldn’t you say?

USU W L Wyo W L Head to head
2022 6 6 7 5 WYO
2021 11 3 7 6 WYO
2020 1 5 2 4 DNP
2019 7 6 8 5 USU
2018 11 2 6 6 USU
2017 6 7 8 5 WYO
2016 3 9 8 6 WYO
2015 6 7 2 10 USU
2014 19 4 4 8 USU
2013 9 5 7 7 USU
Total 79 54 59 62
Average 7.9 5.4 5.9 6.2

Wyo is 1-14 vs Boise last 15 games.

So they really don't have any particular advantage over USU's FB program. Just a couple of recent wins.

Sl7vk · Post by **Sl7vk** » November 27th, 2022, 9:00 pm

I would actually move to a Mike Leach run and shoot style if I had my druthers.
I don’t want to look like Wyoming. Ever. Period.

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