AAC Western Expansion Smoke

BLUERUFiO · Post by **BLUERUFiO** » July 26th, 2021, 4:40 pm

The timing of expanding the playoffs makes sense now. I'm sure OU and Texas wanted a way to still make the playoffs knowing that they were about to join an ultra competitive football conference. We will see the SEC get 4-5 teams in the playoffs every year.

I still love playoff expansion though because a G5 will get in as well. At least 1 underdog will have somewhat of a chance.

BLUERUFiO · Post by **BLUERUFiO** » July 26th, 2021, 4:43 pm

Good news, everyone: our conference is officially aware that stuff is going on!

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » July 26th, 2021, 5:32 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 4:43 pm

Good news, everyone: our conference is officially aware that stuff is going on!

Yep, would have been easier to just to say "we're in a washing machine and whatever comes out after the final rinse and spin will be whatever it's going to be, thank you"

Jayzep · Post by **Jayzep** » July 26th, 2021, 7:52 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 4:43 pm

Good news, everyone: our conference is officially aware that stuff is going on!

Bluerufio wins the internet for the day. On a side note, found a update picture of Craig Thompson.

coolag · Post by **coolag** » July 26th, 2021, 9:57 pm

What is everyone expecting him to say?

ChowderAggie · Post by **ChowderAggie** » July 26th, 2021, 10:06 pm

coolag wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 9:57 pm
What is everyone expecting him to say?

I wish he would have said something like, ‘although we are disappointed Utah State has joined the SEC, we will work diligently to mitigate this loss.’

BLUERUFiO · Post by **BLUERUFiO** » July 27th, 2021, 10:07 am

PAC 12 AD with an interesting quote...

Roy McAvoy · Post by **Roy McAvoy** » July 27th, 2021, 10:08 am

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 10:07 am
PAC 12 AD with an interesting quote...

Maybe there's more to read into it, but all I read is that the Pac 12 is in the mountain time zone with Utah & Colorado and the losing Texas/Oklahoma to the SEC may help fan interest in the mountain time zone be more in local teams.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » July 27th, 2021, 10:11 am

Roy McAvoy wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 10:08 am

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 10:07 am
PAC 12 AD with an interesting quote...

Maybe there's more to read into it, but all I read is that the Pac 12 is in the mountain time zone with Utah & Colorado and the losing Texas/Oklahoma to the SEC may help fan interest in the mountain time zone be more in local teams.

Except Texas and Oklahoma have always been in the Central Time Zone. That hasn't changed.

I think his statement is either very ignorant or very dismissive. I can't really tell which without more context.

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 10:17 am

Yossarian wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 10:11 am

Roy McAvoy wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 10:08 am

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 10:07 am
PAC 12 AD with an interesting quote...

Maybe there's more to read into it, but all I read is that the Pac 12 is in the mountain time zone with Utah & Colorado and the losing Texas/Oklahoma to the SEC may help fan interest in the mountain time zone be more in local teams.
Except Texas and Oklahoma have always been in the Central Time Zone. That hasn't changed.

I think his statement is either very ignorant or very dismissive. I can't really tell which without more context.

Too me it says "we're not interested in B12 leftovers"

dirtnsnow · Post by **dirtnsnow** » July 27th, 2021, 11:37 am

WAaggieFan wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 3:46 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 2:02 pm

WAaggieFan wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 1:52 pm

calaggie wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 5:20 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 4:56 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 12:54 pm
The Big XII leftovers are apparently in talks with the PAC 12 to create a second 20 team mega-conference. If that were to happen, I'm sure the B1G would take 6 from the ACC to make a third.
How are they picking up the eight leftovers when West Virginia is one of them? I don't buy that one. Sure they can try pick up the others, but I still think that Kansas and Iowa State go Big 10. So if 20 teams is the goal for the Pac-12 then they got to pick up some group of five teams. However I just don't buy the whole Pac 12 will pick up the leftovers anyways. They are as picky as ever on who to choose. All their schools have medical schools. A few of the potential Big 12 leftovers don't. The more likely scenario if the Big 12 doesn't survive is teams are going to be picked up piecemeal. Big 10 will take a couple, Pac 12 will take a couple, the AAC will take a couple. Heck maybe even the Mountain West will take a couple, we'll see.
This idea originated with the Big 12 leftovers, and the PAC commissioner has already said “no thanks.” I think TCU and Baylor would be complete non-starters for the PAC membership, and WVU is just too far away. Also, I’m pretty sure Wazzu, Oregon State and ASU don’t have med schools.
That recently changed for the Cougs.
https://medicine.wsu.edu/
It's upsetting to me that this isn't a thing at USU. Instead we just have the medical school at the U, which is more concerned about recruiting a diverse class from out of state every year, and now a slew of private DO schools moving in around the state.
WA legislature stepped up and changed a law that had kept WSU from having a med school. It also helped that Spokane had enough of a medical industry that UW med school had already established a presence on the east side of the state through the WSU satellite campus and the hospitals over there. Once WSU got the law changed it made total sense to roll that all over from the U.
Unfortunately, two things won’t let it happen at USU. One, Logan is only 80 miles from the main medical industry center in the state. Spokane and Seattle are 300 miles and nearly a 5 hour drive apart. Plus the Spokane metro area is five times the size of Logan so it can support a much larger medical industry.
Two, I just don’t really see the Utah legislature really stepping up in a way that could ever be construed as showing preference to any institution not UoU.

I know we talk a lot about BYU and Utah blocking entrance to the WAC back in the day, but in my opinion, this was the bigger issue. We don't have a law school, dental school, or medical school due to some laws back in the day designating those for Utah while we got engineering and ag stuff. Those types of professional schools would really add to the boosters. Now the legislature is more concerned with growing UVU instead of satellite USU campuses (which is kind of what the land grant university is supposed to do, right?)

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » July 27th, 2021, 11:41 am

1907 Fearing that the growth of the UAC will hinder the University of Utah's progress, legislators in Salt Lake City attempt to consolidate the two schools, and upon failing, instead pass a bill limiting UAC's curriculum to agriculture, domestic science, and mechanic arts. Many once-thriving programs in the arts, humanities, education, and others are closed, despite the college's initial mandate that it offer such instruction. By 1927, all curricular restrictions except law and medicine are lifted.

It was the pukes all along.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 27th, 2021, 12:16 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 4:40 pm
The timing of expanding the playoffs makes sense now. I'm sure OU and Texas wanted a way to still make the playoffs knowing that they were about to join an ultra competitive football conference. We will see the SEC get 4-5 teams in the playoffs every year.

I still love playoff expansion though because a G5 will get in as well. At least 1 underdog will have somewhat of a chance.

The Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is significantly weaker as well. If WVU and another school or two leave, it would be very good for the MW, because our champ just has to be one of the top 6 highest ranked conference champs. Another conference becoming weaker only helps us.

And if they raid the AAC, that might even help us more, because then our conference champ would more likely be ranked ahead of theirs.

The only problem is if the Big 12 actually takes Boise. You hate them, but they are usually a top 25 team.

Full · Post by **Full** » July 27th, 2021, 12:31 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 12:16 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 4:40 pm
The timing of expanding the playoffs makes sense now. I'm sure OU and Texas wanted a way to still make the playoffs knowing that they were about to join an ultra competitive football conference. We will see the SEC get 4-5 teams in the playoffs every year.

I still love playoff expansion though because a G5 will get in as well. At least 1 underdog will have somewhat of a chance.
The Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is significantly weaker as well. If WVU and another school or two leave, it would be very good for the MW, because our champ just has to be one of the top 6 highest ranked conference champs. Another conference becoming weaker only helps us.

And if they raid the AAC, that might even help us more, because then our conference champ would more likely be ranked ahead of theirs.

The only problem is if the Big 12 actually takes Boise. You hate them, but they are usually a top 25 team.

That’s only true if they don’t move the goalpost and take less than 6 conference champs. There is a September meeting to review the current proposal and feedback. I believe we will have a decision before the end of the year, but it might be delayed if they need more time for consideration. I hope they keep six, but it’s not set in stone yet.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » July 27th, 2021, 12:50 pm

Full wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 12:31 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 12:16 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 4:40 pm
The timing of expanding the playoffs makes sense now. I'm sure OU and Texas wanted a way to still make the playoffs knowing that they were about to join an ultra competitive football conference. We will see the SEC get 4-5 teams in the playoffs every year.

I still love playoff expansion though because a G5 will get in as well. At least 1 underdog will have somewhat of a chance.
The Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is significantly weaker as well. If WVU and another school or two leave, it would be very good for the MW, because our champ just has to be one of the top 6 highest ranked conference champs. Another conference becoming weaker only helps us.

And if they raid the AAC, that might even help us more, because then our conference champ would more likely be ranked ahead of theirs.

The only problem is if the Big 12 actually takes Boise. You hate them, but they are usually a top 25 team.
That’s only true if they don’t move the goalpost and take less than 6 conference champs. There is a September meeting to review the current proposal and feedback. I believe we will have a decision before the end of the year, but it might be delayed if they need more time for consideration. I hope they keep six, but it’s not set in stone yet.

I wonder which conference will wants fewer autobids...

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 1:19 pm

The only real scenario that benefits USU and the MWC is that enough schools bail on the Big-12 that they are forced to dissolve. I suppose the 2nd best scenario that benefits USU is that enough of the BIG-12 to keep the conf. alive sticks around, and we get an invite, but the chances of that are slim to ZERO.

ustate98 · Post by **ustate98** » July 27th, 2021, 1:48 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:19 pm
The only real scenario that benefits USU and the MWC is that enough schools bail on the Big-12 that they are forced to dissolve. I suppose the 2nd best scenario that benefits USU is that enough of the BIG-12 to keep the conf. alive sticks around, and we get an invite, but the chances of that are slim to ZERO.

For an invite to Big12 I think the only scenario that works out for us if they want Byu and take us as a travel partner. Other than that like you said our chances are slim to none.

ChowderAggie · Post by **ChowderAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 1:50 pm

ustate98 wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:48 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:19 pm
The only real scenario that benefits USU and the MWC is that enough schools bail on the Big-12 that they are forced to dissolve. I suppose the 2nd best scenario that benefits USU is that enough of the BIG-12 to keep the conf. alive sticks around, and we get an invite, but the chances of that are slim to ZERO.
For an invite to Big12 I think the only scenario that works out for us if they want Byu and take us as a travel partner. Other than that like you said our chances are slim to none.

Wouldn’t Boise be the logical travel partner for BYU?

ustate98 · Post by **ustate98** » July 27th, 2021, 1:53 pm

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:50 pm

ustate98 wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:48 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:19 pm
The only real scenario that benefits USU and the MWC is that enough schools bail on the Big-12 that they are forced to dissolve. I suppose the 2nd best scenario that benefits USU is that enough of the BIG-12 to keep the conf. alive sticks around, and we get an invite, but the chances of that are slim to ZERO.
For an invite to Big12 I think the only scenario that works out for us if they want Byu and take us as a travel partner. Other than that like you said our chances are slim to none.
Wouldn’t Boise be the logical travel partner for BYU?

Probably but with the University Presidents making the call of who gets in I like our academic status and being closer to Byu giving us the edge. Of course I still believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy

so there is that.

NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 1:59 pm

Like your academic valuation comments 98, but tell me again about the Tooth Fairy.

Truth be know, Boise is an institution attached to a football program. Perhaps in another half century some scholarly things may improve, perhaps. As you noted 98, school Presidents make the athletic conference final alignment call.

NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 2:03 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 11:41 am

1907 Fearing that the growth of the UAC will hinder the University of Utah's progress, legislators in Salt Lake City attempt to consolidate the two schools, and upon failing, instead pass a bill limiting UAC's curriculum to agriculture, domestic science, and mechanic arts. Many once-thriving programs in the arts, humanities, education, and others are closed, despite the college's initial mandate that it offer such instruction. By 1927, all curricular restrictions except law and medicine are lifted.
It was the pukes all along.

Well noted, and a good bit of history is reviewed or unearthed, regarding schools of Law and Medicine. GOOD GET 78.

BigBlueDart · Post by **BigBlueDart** » July 27th, 2021, 2:32 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 1:08 pm
Anyone else reminded of the Russian, Prusso-German, and Austrian empires in the XIIIth-XIXth Centuries, all tussling with each other to be the biggest and baddest in Central and Eastern Europe, at least when not running scared from the Frogs?

I'm not sure how many of us are old enough to remember that. You might be alone on this one.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 2:37 pm

dirtnsnow wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 11:37 am

WAaggieFan wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 3:46 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 2:02 pm

WAaggieFan wrote: ↑
July 26th, 2021, 1:52 pm

calaggie wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 5:20 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 4:56 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
July 24th, 2021, 12:54 pm
The Big XII leftovers are apparently in talks with the PAC 12 to create a second 20 team mega-conference. If that were to happen, I'm sure the B1G would take 6 from the ACC to make a third.
How are they picking up the eight leftovers when West Virginia is one of them? I don't buy that one. Sure they can try pick up the others, but I still think that Kansas and Iowa State go Big 10. So if 20 teams is the goal for the Pac-12 then they got to pick up some group of five teams. However I just don't buy the whole Pac 12 will pick up the leftovers anyways. They are as picky as ever on who to choose. All their schools have medical schools. A few of the potential Big 12 leftovers don't. The more likely scenario if the Big 12 doesn't survive is teams are going to be picked up piecemeal. Big 10 will take a couple, Pac 12 will take a couple, the AAC will take a couple. Heck maybe even the Mountain West will take a couple, we'll see.
This idea originated with the Big 12 leftovers, and the PAC commissioner has already said “no thanks.” I think TCU and Baylor would be complete non-starters for the PAC membership, and WVU is just too far away. Also, I’m pretty sure Wazzu, Oregon State and ASU don’t have med schools.
That recently changed for the Cougs.
https://medicine.wsu.edu/
It's upsetting to me that this isn't a thing at USU. Instead we just have the medical school at the U, which is more concerned about recruiting a diverse class from out of state every year, and now a slew of private DO schools moving in around the state.
WA legislature stepped up and changed a law that had kept WSU from having a med school. It also helped that Spokane had enough of a medical industry that UW med school had already established a presence on the east side of the state through the WSU satellite campus and the hospitals over there. Once WSU got the law changed it made total sense to roll that all over from the U.
Unfortunately, two things won’t let it happen at USU. One, Logan is only 80 miles from the main medical industry center in the state. Spokane and Seattle are 300 miles and nearly a 5 hour drive apart. Plus the Spokane metro area is five times the size of Logan so it can support a much larger medical industry.
Two, I just don’t really see the Utah legislature really stepping up in a way that could ever be construed as showing preference to any institution not UoU.
I know we talk a lot about BYU and Utah blocking entrance to the WAC back in the day, but in my opinion, this was the bigger issue. We don't have a law school, dental school, or medical school due to some laws back in the day designating those for Utah while we got engineering and ag stuff. Those types of professional schools would really add to the boosters. Now the legislature is more concerned with growing UVU instead of satellite USU campuses (which is kind of what the land grant university is supposed to do, right?)

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that USU originally had the law school, but they moved it down to the U when the state was circling the wagons financially during one of the wars (WWI or WWII) and it just never got brought back.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 2:41 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 2:03 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 11:41 am

1907 Fearing that the growth of the UAC will hinder the University of Utah's progress, legislators in Salt Lake City attempt to consolidate the two schools, and upon failing, instead pass a bill limiting UAC's curriculum to agriculture, domestic science, and mechanic arts. Many once-thriving programs in the arts, humanities, education, and others are closed, despite the college's initial mandate that it offer such instruction. By 1927, all curricular restrictions except law and medicine are lifted.
It was the pukes all along.

Well noted, and a good bit of history is reviewed or unearthed, regarding schools of Law and Medicine. GOOD GET 78.

Of course they would never put restrictions in place that would stop the U from starting a program, only for others (mostly USU) from starting programs.

The real question is why USU doesn't have a full-blown vet school yet. I know we have the halfsies one with Wazzou, but I feel like USU should have its own.

BigBlueDart · Post by **BigBlueDart** » July 27th, 2021, 2:52 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 2:41 pm
The real question is why USU doesn't have a full-blown vet school yet. I know we have the halfsies one with Wazzou, but I feel like USU should have its own.

Halfsies is probably a generous way of putting that. The way I understood it was that WSU already has a strong vet program and USU made an arrangement with them where something like some of our classes can feed directly into their program so folks could start at USU, but finish at WSU. I could have that wrong, but the gist is that USU is just suckling at the teet of WSU's vet program, hoping to get enough nourishment to eventually grow into it's own program at some future time.

ChowderAggie · Post by **ChowderAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 3:02 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Like your academic valuation comments 98, but tell me again about the Tooth Fairy.

Truth be know, Boise is an institution attached to a football program. Perhaps in another half century some scholarly things may improve, perhaps. As you noted 98, school Presidents make the athletic conference final alignment call.

Boise State has moved up to be a Research 2 institution, the same as Utah State. They are improving quickly and have picked off some our faculty to help the upward trajectory.

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » July 27th, 2021, 3:11 pm

ChowderAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 3:02 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
July 27th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Like your academic valuation comments 98, but tell me again about the Tooth Fairy.

Truth be know, Boise is an institution attached to a football program. Perhaps in another half century some scholarly things may improve, perhaps. As you noted 98, school Presidents make the athletic conference final alignment call.
Boise State has moved up to be a Research 2 institution, the same as Utah State. They are improving quickly and have picked off some our faculty to help the upward trajectory.

Didn't we used to be an Tier 1? I know it's not a ranking per se, but did we drop to 2?

cval · Post by **cval** » July 28th, 2021, 12:34 pm

Well, the terminology has changed a bit, but USU was R1, and is now “Research Extensive” (top level research ranking). I seriously doubt Boise is that level.

ChowderAggie · Post by **ChowderAggie** » July 28th, 2021, 12:58 pm

cval wrote: ↑
July 28th, 2021, 12:34 pm
Well, the terminology has changed a bit, but USU was R1, and is now “Research Extensive” (top level research ranking). I seriously doubt Boise is that level.

We are R2, along with Boise State.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/facult ... gories.pdf

slcagg · Post by **slcagg** » July 28th, 2021, 2:19 pm

Really good interview with John. He thinks the big 12 top 4 teams to add are UCf, USF, Houston and cincinatti. If that is the case we need to add Tulsa, smu and or Memphis.

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » July 28th, 2021, 2:28 pm

slcagg wrote: ↑
July 28th, 2021, 2:19 pm
Really good interview with John. He thinks the big 12 top 4 teams to add are UCf, USF, Houston and cincinatti. If that is the case we need to add Tulsa, smu and or Memphis.

We need to pounce on Tulsa, Rice and SMU, bring Wichita State along and hopefully entice Zags to join us as well!

slcagg · Post by **slcagg** » July 28th, 2021, 2:38 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑
July 28th, 2021, 2:28 pm

slcagg wrote: ↑
July 28th, 2021, 2:19 pm
Really good interview with John. He thinks the big 12 top 4 teams to add are UCf, USF, Houston and cincinatti. If that is the case we need to add Tulsa, smu and or Memphis.

We need to pounce on Tulsa, Rice and SMU, bring Wichita State along and hopefully entice Zags to join us as well!

What do you like about rice? Aren’t they conference USA?

ShowMeAggie · Post by **ShowMeAggie** » July 28th, 2021, 3:45 pm

what do you like about ANY of those? tell me any television network is going to pay for November games pitting SMU vs SJSU and Memphis at Wyoming?! It's called the WAC16 concept. it didn't work then and it won't work now. Personally, I would be MUCH more in favor of grabbing a few schools that fit in our geographical footprint (Montana/Mt St and/or NMSU/UTEP, e.g. or even UofA/ASU if the PAC were to implode) IF we feel like we need to keep up with the Joneses regarding membership numbers OR just standing pat and being comfortable with what we are...have-nots that play for the love of the game(s) and with like-minded neighbors.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » July 28th, 2021, 3:57 pm

I heard the words "Utah State is headed to the PAC 12" come out of John Hartwell's mouth on the radio. Make of that what you will.

BigBlueDart · Post by **BigBlueDart** » July 28th, 2021, 3:58 pm

I'd be fine making no changes to MWC membership. There aren't really a lot of favorable options, and among the favorable options there are fewer that are realistic. Really, the only scenarios I see the conference making any changes are if the Big XII implodes and we scramble to pick up some of their leftovers, or if we lose enough members that we need to backfill.

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