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AAC Western Expansion Smoke
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I think joining the Big XII leftovers would be attractive due mostly to history, but I can't see joining the AAC leftovers being more attractive than the MWC unless a handful of MWC teams get pulled away as well.GeoAg wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 7:31 amI don't see CSU and the one true team being pulled west. They don't bring new markets in that case and just take from the pool rather than add. I don't see the PAC XII condescending to take Boise State for other reasons. I can see each school having opportunities to head east with Big XII leftovers or AAC leftovers. We'll see
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Depending on who is on the radar of the P5 conferences, the MWC should look to expand into Texas with the fallout of this stuff. I doubt they could pull in TCU or Baylor, but it would be awesome if they could.slcagg wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 8:02 amMy opinion this move would break up the big 12 and push for 4 16 team conferences. Maybe something like below:
Sec: takes Texas and Oklahoma
Big 10: Iowa state and Kansas (or maybe notre dame)
Acc: West Virginia and Baylor (or maybe notre dame)
Pac 12: Oklahoma state and kstate then who else do they add? I don’t think they would add religious schools like tcu and Baylor. Maybe Texas tech.
The mw should be on the phone with BYU and other aac schools that make sense geographically in case some of those schools are taken.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I don’t see it. Does adding Iowa State, Kansas, West Virginia, Oklahoma State, K-State and Baylor bring in more money to any conference? This seems similar to when the Big12 was exploring expansion, but ended up being leverage to get more money. Oklahoma and Texas are the Crown Jewels of the conference, the remaining teams don’t add enough to offset their cost. Look at Boise State to the AAC. Boise had interest, but the decision was based on money, and Boise didn’t move the needle enough to justify expanding the conference footprint.slcagg wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 8:02 amMy opinion this move would break up the big 12 and push for 4 16 team conferences. Maybe something like below:
Sec: takes Texas and Oklahoma
Big 10: Iowa state and Kansas (or maybe notre dame)
Acc: West Virginia and Baylor (or maybe notre dame)
Pac 12: Oklahoma state and kstate then who else do they add? I don’t think they would add religious schools like tcu and Baylor. Maybe Texas tech.
The mw should be on the phone with BYU and other aac schools that make sense geographically in case some of those schools are taken.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
This wouldn't hurt us one bit, the Big 12 will add Houston and Cincinnati and be done with it. They won't water it down with CSU or Bozo State or even YBU. Mark my words. This only hurts AAC if it happens (I think there's a good chance it might).apo wrote: ↑July 21st, 2021, 8:04 pmhttps://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... t-join-sec
I know there’s tons of speculation every years around conference realignment but the reporting surrounding this new topic feels very different. This seems to have more traction than the average rumor.
Worst case scenario is that the Big 12 pulls from both the MWC and AAC and both conference join up as one
Last edited by ViAggie on July 22nd, 2021, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I hope you are right. Then I hope we do everything we can to strengthen our conference.ViAggie wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 10:53 amThis wouldn't hurt us one bit, the Big 12 will add Houston and Cincinnati and be done with it. They won't water it down with CSU or Bozo State or even YBU. Mark my words. This only hurts AAC if it happens (I think there's a good chance it might).apo wrote: ↑July 21st, 2021, 8:04 pmhttps://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... t-join-sec
I know there’s tons of speculation every years around conference realignment but the reporting surrounding this new topic feels very different. This seems to have more traction than the average rumor.
Also I don’t think the big 12 should be considered a p5 conference if they trade out Texas and Oklahoma for Houston and cincinatti
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I like my backfill theory but this particular Baylor writer seems very concerned that the Big-12 could collapse. The speculation is that OSU would join the PAC-12 (I find this very hard to believe that the hoity toity Cali schools would allow themselves to be associated with Oklahoma, but I guess stranger things have happened).slcagg wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 11:07 amI hope you are right. Then I hope we do everything we can to strengthen our conference.ViAggie wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 10:53 amThis wouldn't hurt us one bit, the Big 12 will add Houston and Cincinnati and be done with it. They won't water it down with CSU or Bozo State or even YBU. Mark my words. This only hurts AAC if it happens (I think there's a good chance it might).apo wrote: ↑July 21st, 2021, 8:04 pmhttps://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... t-join-sec
I know there’s tons of speculation every years around conference realignment but the reporting surrounding this new topic feels very different. This seems to have more traction than the average rumor.
Also I don’t think the big 12 should be considered a p5 conference if they trade out Texas and Oklahoma for Houston and cincinatti
https://www.ourdailybears.com/2021/7/21 ... ars-sic-em
Houston and Cinci make the most sense, and these AAC fans seem to think that CT is an evil genius: https://www.csnbbs.com/thread-925501.html
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
This is the beginning of the end of NCAA football as we know it. Big money making schools through targeted conferences hold the power of TV money. I think in the next 5 years as web channels grow toward sports and represent a realistic revenue stream we'll see Power conferences join together to form a super college league and cut NCAA and others out of the loop. I also think you'll see some of the dead wood schools in certain power conferences get left behind.
The Big XII kids left over in the divorce will be in demand by other conferences as those conferences that care about sports (not Pac XII) will be looking to grow footprint to drive the idea that they can grab more television sets across a more broad geographic area.
Posting below an excerpt by Staff Author at InsideTexas.com... I think its pretty good forecast as to what happens to the
to the Big XII kids left behind.
We're Good
Kansas
Kansas shrugs. The Jayhawks are one of the three premier basketball schools in college hoops. It's not that they're good at basketball, it's that basketball prints them money and earns them a national following. They're also the #1 state school with a good number of living alumni. This is the key understanding. Blue bloods with big hoops revenue and a passionate fanbase. They're not worried. The Big 10 beckons. This isn't hard.
Yep, that's the end of the we're good list.
This Is Our Concern, Dude
Oklahoma State
West Virginia
Iowa State
Texas Tech
No conference NEEDS any of these schools. Exactly none of them. None are awful, but they aren't compelling.
Oklahoma State has good facilities and a strong commitment to athletics, but lacks demographic appeal. Can they sink hooks into OU through the Okie legislature and force an invite to the SEC? Might have a shot. I don't pretend to know the power brokers there. Would the SEC take them to get OU and Texas? Duh.
West Virginia will have a shot at the ACC (or SEC if they need numbers to balance a Cowboy tag along) because of proximity, decent sports, number of living graduates, but if not, welcome to the AAC. It's closing time and they're a 5.5 with a decent personality.
Speaking of 5.5s...Iowa State is the #2 school in Iowa. So, you know. They do have moderate demographic appeal and rejuvenated sports. Can they talk their way into the Big 10? They could be the balance-the-numbers throw-in with Kansas. Or maybe Matt Campbell gets back to MAC domination!
Texas Tech better start working hard on their pitch. They lack a natural geographic partner and aren't good enough in any one area to demand attention. Better circle the wagons boys, because it's a Comanche moon and I think you're low on ammo.
Sheer Terror
Kansas State
TCU
Baylor
Kansas State is a weaker, less appealing version of the state schools above. This isn't about occasional plucky athletic overachievement. No one cares.
Now is not the time to be a religious affiliated private school with tertiary market imprint, few living alumni, and no television sets. Baylor has solid facilities and some winning sports. No one cares and aspects of their culture are toxic to academic elites. "But Baylor won the national title in hoops!" is the retort. Cool. Who did they beat to do it? Gonzaga. What conference are the Zags in? Right. Let's move along...
"TCU has good football!" Actually, not really anymore. And who cares? They have 43 alumni and can't even bring DFW television sets. Did you just mention college baseball? That's adorable.
**
The American Athletic Conference is about to have a really nice expansion. Will the Mountain West finally be heard as a true power broker!
If things look bleak for our current partners post Texas and OU departure, perhaps that's an indication why they shouldn't be our conference partners?
I'm ready to explain how time zones work now if anyone is interested.
The Big XII kids left over in the divorce will be in demand by other conferences as those conferences that care about sports (not Pac XII) will be looking to grow footprint to drive the idea that they can grab more television sets across a more broad geographic area.
Posting below an excerpt by Staff Author at InsideTexas.com... I think its pretty good forecast as to what happens to the
to the Big XII kids left behind.
We're Good
Kansas
Kansas shrugs. The Jayhawks are one of the three premier basketball schools in college hoops. It's not that they're good at basketball, it's that basketball prints them money and earns them a national following. They're also the #1 state school with a good number of living alumni. This is the key understanding. Blue bloods with big hoops revenue and a passionate fanbase. They're not worried. The Big 10 beckons. This isn't hard.
Yep, that's the end of the we're good list.
This Is Our Concern, Dude
Oklahoma State
West Virginia
Iowa State
Texas Tech
No conference NEEDS any of these schools. Exactly none of them. None are awful, but they aren't compelling.
Oklahoma State has good facilities and a strong commitment to athletics, but lacks demographic appeal. Can they sink hooks into OU through the Okie legislature and force an invite to the SEC? Might have a shot. I don't pretend to know the power brokers there. Would the SEC take them to get OU and Texas? Duh.
West Virginia will have a shot at the ACC (or SEC if they need numbers to balance a Cowboy tag along) because of proximity, decent sports, number of living graduates, but if not, welcome to the AAC. It's closing time and they're a 5.5 with a decent personality.
Speaking of 5.5s...Iowa State is the #2 school in Iowa. So, you know. They do have moderate demographic appeal and rejuvenated sports. Can they talk their way into the Big 10? They could be the balance-the-numbers throw-in with Kansas. Or maybe Matt Campbell gets back to MAC domination!
Texas Tech better start working hard on their pitch. They lack a natural geographic partner and aren't good enough in any one area to demand attention. Better circle the wagons boys, because it's a Comanche moon and I think you're low on ammo.
Sheer Terror
Kansas State
TCU
Baylor
Kansas State is a weaker, less appealing version of the state schools above. This isn't about occasional plucky athletic overachievement. No one cares.
Now is not the time to be a religious affiliated private school with tertiary market imprint, few living alumni, and no television sets. Baylor has solid facilities and some winning sports. No one cares and aspects of their culture are toxic to academic elites. "But Baylor won the national title in hoops!" is the retort. Cool. Who did they beat to do it? Gonzaga. What conference are the Zags in? Right. Let's move along...
"TCU has good football!" Actually, not really anymore. And who cares? They have 43 alumni and can't even bring DFW television sets. Did you just mention college baseball? That's adorable.
**
The American Athletic Conference is about to have a really nice expansion. Will the Mountain West finally be heard as a true power broker!
If things look bleak for our current partners post Texas and OU departure, perhaps that's an indication why they shouldn't be our conference partners?
I'm ready to explain how time zones work now if anyone is interested.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Ess show coming? I hope not, but looks that way
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Respectfully I disagree. The beginning of the end came on June 27, 1984, when the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 'NCAA v. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma'.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
A (I can't express myself without swearing) show (the letter s starts the word I can't use here)
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
You are exactly right... this is not the start rather probably the death rattle of something that should have died some time ago.swordsman1989 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 1:58 pmRespectfully I disagree. The beginning of the end came on June 27, 1984, when the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 'NCAA v. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma'.
I used to be worried about USU being relegated to a tier 2 situation but have decided that a real split will actually be good for schools of USUs size and budget. The race to compete using budget will decrease and the rivalries will become sustainable.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Here's the thing. Our players and fans want to win the MWC Championship every bit as much as Utah's players and fans want to win the PAC-12. And Weber State's players and fans want to win the Big Sky just as much.cbingham wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:20 pmYou are exactly right... this is not the start rather probably the death rattle of something that should have died some time ago.swordsman1989 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 1:58 pmRespectfully I disagree. The beginning of the end came on June 27, 1984, when the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 'NCAA v. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma'.
I used to be worried about USU being relegated to a tier 2 situation but have decided that a real split will actually be good for schools of USUs size and budget. The race to compete using budget will decrease and the rivalries will become sustainable.
I used to get caught up in the idea that it is better to be a nobody on a big stage than somebody on a smaller stage. I no longer believe that. As long as USU plays competitive football and I can enjoy watching them...I'm good. That requires we are in a stable conference with like institutions, but I don't care if that conference is in the "BCS" or not.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Rule 1: USU matters.
Comment: We love the present configuration of the MWC because (a) we have Wyoming, CSU, and UNM which are true regional, long-term institutional peers within driving distance in the same time zone; (b) we have Boazy, Reno, Vegas, and AFA, of which only Reno is a true, regional, long-term institutional peer, but with which we have had little to do before the BWC thievery of BSC schools, AFA has some country-wide appeal and is in our time zone and is within driving distance, and the other two are parvenu schools are both within driving distance; and (c) I could give a crap about the Cal States or Hawai'i except to the extent they affect TV revenues.
Rule 2: Nothing else matters.
Comment: We love the present configuration of the MWC because (a) we have Wyoming, CSU, and UNM which are true regional, long-term institutional peers within driving distance in the same time zone; (b) we have Boazy, Reno, Vegas, and AFA, of which only Reno is a true, regional, long-term institutional peer, but with which we have had little to do before the BWC thievery of BSC schools, AFA has some country-wide appeal and is in our time zone and is within driving distance, and the other two are parvenu schools are both within driving distance; and (c) I could give a crap about the Cal States or Hawai'i except to the extent they affect TV revenues.
Rule 2: Nothing else matters.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unlikely to see the rump Cal schools field G5 football ever again, and Hawaii is a tough drive from Logan.USU78 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 3:18 pmRule 1: USU matters.
Comment: We love the present configuration of the MWC because (a) we have Wyoming, CSU, and UNM which are true regional, long-term institutional peers within driving distance in the same time zone; (b) we have Boazy, Reno, Vegas, and AFA, of which only Reno is a true, regional, long-term institutional peer, but with which we have had little to do before the BWC thievery of BSC schools, AFA has some country-wide appeal and is in our time zone and is within driving distance, and the other two are parvenu schools are both within driving distance; and (c) I could give a crap about the Cal States or Hawai'i except to the extent they affect TV revenues.
Rule 2: Nothing else matters.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Kansas likely headed to the big 10. I bet money Oklahoma state gets into Another p5 conference. There won’t be much left.
https://www.outkick.com/kansas-may-join ... o-big-ten/
https://www.outkick.com/kansas-may-join ... o-big-ten/
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
So if the Big XII dissolves - does BYU's last chance at a power conference dissolve with it?
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I hope so.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
There is no longer such a thing as a "power conference", at least not in the way that we know them, now. There will be dominant conferences, but no fixed set of conferences with benefits built into the system.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I agree with this sentiment. That's why the G5 schools stop pretending they can compete with the top tier P5 schools and just hold their own playoffs. I think making the G5 playoffs would create a huge amount of excitement in Aggie Nation.3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:36 pmHere's the thing. Our players and fans want to win the MWC Championship every bit as much as Utah's players and fans want to win the PAC-12. And Weber State's players and fans want to win the Big Sky just as much.cbingham wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:20 pmYou are exactly right... this is not the start rather probably the death rattle of something that should have died some time ago.swordsman1989 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 1:58 pmRespectfully I disagree. The beginning of the end came on June 27, 1984, when the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 'NCAA v. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma'.
I used to be worried about USU being relegated to a tier 2 situation but have decided that a real split will actually be good for schools of USUs size and budget. The race to compete using budget will decrease and the rivalries will become sustainable.
I used to get caught up in the idea that it is better to be a nobody on a big stage than somebody on a smaller stage. I no longer believe that. As long as USU plays competitive football and I can enjoy watching them...I'm good. That requires we are in a stable conference with like institutions, but I don't care if that conference is in the "BCS" or not.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
If that were to happen, do they stay indy or try and get a sweetheart deal in the MWC?
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
BRuss804 wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2021, 11:46 amI agree with this sentiment. That's why the G5 schools stop pretending they can compete with the top tier P5 schools and just hold their own playoffs. I think making the G5 playoffs would create a huge amount of excitement in Aggie Nation.3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:36 pmHere's the thing. Our players and fans want to win the MWC Championship every bit as much as Utah's players and fans want to win the PAC-12. And Weber State's players and fans want to win the Big Sky just as much.cbingham wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:20 pmYou are exactly right... this is not the start rather probably the death rattle of something that should have died some time ago.swordsman1989 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 1:58 pmRespectfully I disagree. The beginning of the end came on June 27, 1984, when the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 'NCAA v. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma'.
I used to be worried about USU being relegated to a tier 2 situation but have decided that a real split will actually be good for schools of USUs size and budget. The race to compete using budget will decrease and the rivalries will become sustainable.
I used to get caught up in the idea that it is better to be a nobody on a big stage than somebody on a smaller stage. I no longer believe that. As long as USU plays competitive football and I can enjoy watching them...I'm good. That requires we are in a stable conference with like institutions, but I don't care if that conference is in the "BCS" or not.
This discussions above here are insightful. Obviously G5 schools can't compete with the bigger P5 schools, EVER!
Reality is tough, and certainly with our dear USU, the reality is 50 plus years of watching the world turn while not systematically working the Wasatch Front. The lack of launching any sort of ongoing regular professional effort to harvest the financial, social, media and business assets along the Wasatch Front indicts our institutional and athletic vision.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
^^^^ThisNavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2021, 1:04 pm
This discussions above here are insightful. Obviously G5 schools can't compete with the bigger P5 schools, EVER!
Reality is tough, and certainly with our dear USU, the reality is 50 plus years of watching the world turn while not systematically working the Wasatch Front. The lack of launching any sort of ongoing regular professional effort to harvest the financial, social, media and business assets along the Wasatch Front indicts our institutional and athletic vision.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
You’re wrongBRuss804 wrote:I agree with this sentiment. That's why the G5 schools stop pretending they can compete with the top tier P5 schools and just hold their own playoffs. I think making the G5 playoffs would create a huge amount of excitement in Aggie Nation.3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:36 pmHere's the thing. Our players and fans want to win the MWC Championship every bit as much as Utah's players and fans want to win the PAC-12. And Weber State's players and fans want to win the Big Sky just as much.cbingham wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 2:20 pmYou are exactly right... this is not the start rather probably the death rattle of something that should have died some time ago.swordsman1989 wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2021, 1:58 pmRespectfully I disagree. The beginning of the end came on June 27, 1984, when the Supreme Court ruled against the NCAA in 'NCAA v. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma'.
I used to be worried about USU being relegated to a tier 2 situation but have decided that a real split will actually be good for schools of USUs size and budget. The race to compete using budget will decrease and the rivalries will become sustainable.
I used to get caught up in the idea that it is better to be a nobody on a big stage than somebody on a smaller stage. I no longer believe that. As long as USU plays competitive football and I can enjoy watching them...I'm good. That requires we are in a stable conference with like institutions, but I don't care if that conference is in the "BCS" or not.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I just listened to an interview with Brett McMurphy. In summary, this is what he said in regards to the MWC: They are screwed and the Group of 5 is screwed and it is bad for college football, but that is the way it is going to be.
At least we still have college basketball, which is superior to college football.... and I love college football.
At least we still have college basketball, which is superior to college football.... and I love college football.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
I believe we will continue to have some form of college football, just the bloated pretenses will finally be gone.
Geography and regional alignments should become the reality of the day. Flying a football team or a basketball team long distances will become a stretch that schools can't afford, boosters won't tolerate, fans have little interest in, and logic won't support.
Geography and regional alignments should become the reality of the day. Flying a football team or a basketball team long distances will become a stretch that schools can't afford, boosters won't tolerate, fans have little interest in, and logic won't support.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
So if this Mega power conference materializes, i would have to think they would break from the NCAA umbrella, right? I would think they would want to have control of their own rules regarding: playoffs, recruiting, practices, player revenue, TV deals, profit sharing, etc. Why would they want to give anything to the NCAA? It will be a semi-pro system played in college venues by "student-athletes".
Eutaw St. Aggie
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Couldn't agree with you more Yossarian. I think that is exactly what the big fellas are after. They are tired of sharing the feast with small guys that don't bring much to the table.
Last edited by Slim80 on July 23rd, 2021, 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
BYU can rot in independence. I have stated this before....I do not want USU in a conference with that institution. The cost/benefit for USU is not such to make it worth dealing with their sweethearts. Sharing a conference and the state of Utah with them is not good for USU.3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2021, 12:46 pmIf that were to happen, do they stay indy or try and get a sweetheart deal in the MWC?
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Kansas and the Big 10 have been flirting for a long time. At least there was always smoke even when I was there in 2012-2015. Kansas is one of the few AAU schools in the Big 12 and will fit in fine in the Big 10 academically (at least as well as N is for Nowledge and Rutgers).
Honestly, it’s an improvement for Kansas, and will really solidify the Big 10 as a basketball powerhouse.
And say what you will about Kansas football, but Kansas was the third highest revenue generating program in the Big 12 (28th in the country) behind OU and UT, and brings the Kansas City market, as well as its famous alumni such as Paul Rudd, Rob Riggle, Mandy Patinkin, and Ineptimusprime.
Honestly, it’s an improvement for Kansas, and will really solidify the Big 10 as a basketball powerhouse.
And say what you will about Kansas football, but Kansas was the third highest revenue generating program in the Big 12 (28th in the country) behind OU and UT, and brings the Kansas City market, as well as its famous alumni such as Paul Rudd, Rob Riggle, Mandy Patinkin, and Ineptimusprime.
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Re: AAC Western Expansion Smoke
Not so sure on that last oneineptimusprime wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2021, 6:05 pmKansas and the Big 10 have been flirting for a long time. At least there was always smoke even when I was there in 2012-2015. Kansas is one of the few AAU schools in the Big 12 and will fit in fine in the Big 10 academically (at least as well as N is for Nowledge and Rutgers).
Honestly, it’s an improvement for Kansas, and will really solidify the Big 10 as a basketball powerhouse.
And say what you will about Kansas football, but Kansas was the third highest revenue generating program in the Big 12 (28th in the country) behind OU and UT, and brings the Kansas City market, as well as its famous alumni such as Paul Rudd, Rob Riggle, Mandy Patinkin, and Ineptimusprime.