Tampering in College Football

Roy McAvoy · Post by **Roy McAvoy** » May 25th, 2021, 6:42 am

I'm sure parts of this article are a bit exaggerated, but for the most part I think it's spot on. While I think at USU we have a bit of an opportunity to capitalize on some under recruited HS kids more so than some other G5 schools, overall some good points are made.

“A Power 5 defensive coordinator told VanHaaren he wouldn't bother recruiting high school players if he was at a place like Ball State. If he helps turn that player into an all-MAC type, "A school like us is going to come take him."

Easier to avoid the heartache.

‘Why spend all that time developing that kid only for him to leave me when I can go sign the kid who's unhappy as the fourth corner at a Power 5 school and he's a better player anyway?’ he asked.”

.....

“Shaw said he has heard of schools who have a high school recruiting board and then another recruiting board just for college players. An SEC assistant suggested that soon we'll see separate directors of high school scouting and college scouting the same way the NFL has directors of pro and college scouting.

We're well on our way to that reality, an ACC assistant said, in which a so-called ‘transfer department’ will monitor FCS and lower-level FBS games and make a list. ‘This guy is a legit dude and he's from the area,’ he said, ‘he's an NFL-type player, let's see after the season if he's interested in transferring here.’”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ree-agency

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » May 25th, 2021, 9:55 am

Sure, that is the big problem with the new rule. Good luck to G5 teams holding onto their star underclassmen going forward.

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » May 25th, 2021, 10:40 am

I see this as potentially hurting G5's moving forward, with this mentality we may never get another BWags, Turbo, or JLove. The G5 will now be the landing spot for P5 players who don't make the cut. We'll be the AA leagues for the P5's, but instead of farming, we'll be the dumping grounds. Hope I'm wrong.

Post by **aggies22** » May 25th, 2021, 10:47 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 9:55 am
Sure, that is the big problem with the new rule. Good luck to G5 teams holding onto their star underclassmen going forward.

BUT there will be plenty of 3, 4 and 5 star P5 guys looking for a better opportunity that can be used to fill an area of need. It's not pretty but this is the new reality of college hoops and football. The transfer portal is the new JuCo pool.

IBleedAggieBlue · Post by **IBleedAggieBlue** » May 25th, 2021, 12:04 pm

We'll find out this year if Coach Anderson can manage all the moving pieces when it comes to recruitment. USU needs more money to create a war room, boards and pay scouts to search for other players. It will be frustrating for Aggie fans. Could be more frustrating for bigger G5 schools like Boise, SDSU, etc.

OrangeCountyAggie · Post by **OrangeCountyAggie** » May 25th, 2021, 3:24 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 10:47 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 9:55 am
Sure, that is the big problem with the new rule. Good luck to G5 teams holding onto their star underclassmen going forward.
BUT there will be plenty of 3, 4 and 5 star P5 guys looking for a better opportunity that can be used to fill an area of need. It's not pretty but this is the new reality of college hoops and football. The transfer portal is the new JuCo pool.

Exactly, it's a two-way street. Sure, you may lose a good player here and there but gain a player going the other way (if you're smart). Were talking about players who are "good." NFL quality players on the other hand will still leave directly to the NFL (al-a Jordan Love) It doesn't make sense to risk getting hurt (or not getting the desired playing time, development, etc.) if you're already draftable.

Another factor that might work in our favor (which I've discussed on the basketball side) is a severely depressed high school market. Perhaps you're able to land higher quality HS talent who were underscouted/overlooked by bigger P5 programs who prioritize transfer talent. Those players will have a major chip on their shoulders and (in theory) demonstrate loyalty to the team/staff that gave them the chance.

Post by **aggies22** » May 25th, 2021, 3:44 pm

IBleedAggieBlue wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 12:04 pm
We'll find out this year if Coach Anderson can manage all the moving pieces when it comes to recruitment. USU needs more money to create a war room, boards and pay scouts to search for other players. It will be frustrating for Aggie fans. Could be more frustrating for bigger G5 schools like Boise, SDSU, etc.

The transfer portal being completely visible helps. Also, with summer camps and the 7-on-7 circuit becoming so huge, the need for paying scouts is becoming less necessary. All the coaching staff needs to do is send our guys to these events. I'm sure there is a "war room" type setting in the office of Director of Player Personnel Dave Roberson.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » May 25th, 2021, 4:42 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 3:24 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 10:47 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 9:55 am
Sure, that is the big problem with the new rule. Good luck to G5 teams holding onto their star underclassmen going forward.
BUT there will be plenty of 3, 4 and 5 star P5 guys looking for a better opportunity that can be used to fill an area of need. It's not pretty but this is the new reality of college hoops and football. The transfer portal is the new JuCo pool.
Exactly, it's a two-way street. Sure, you may lose a good player here and there but gain a player going the other way (if you're smart). Were talking about players who are "good." NFL quality players on the other hand will still leave directly to the NFL (al-a Jordan Love) It doesn't make sense to risk getting hurt (or not getting the desired playing time, development, etc.) if you're already draftable.

Another factor that might work in our favor (which I've discussed on the basketball side) is a severely depressed high school market. Perhaps you're able to land higher quality HS talent who were underscouted/overlooked by bigger P5 programs who prioritize transfer talent. Those players will have a major chip on their shoulders and (in theory) demonstrate loyalty to the team/staff that gave them the chance.

Hope it works better in football. In basketball the last guy on a P5 bench isn't going to be as good as a G5 star that goes to the P5 and for the most part we won't get the 10th man on the Kentucky or Duke bench. Those guys are going to other P5 programs. It will not be an even trade where we lose a Merrill or Queta equivalent and an equivalent of their talent just smoothly transfers in to take their place. Maybe some years will hit a homerun in the portal, but most years we will really feel our loss. Think the Collette situation only more often.

OrangeCountyAggie · Post by **OrangeCountyAggie** » May 25th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 4:42 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 3:24 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 10:47 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 9:55 am
Sure, that is the big problem with the new rule. Good luck to G5 teams holding onto their star underclassmen going forward.
BUT there will be plenty of 3, 4 and 5 star P5 guys looking for a better opportunity that can be used to fill an area of need. It's not pretty but this is the new reality of college hoops and football. The transfer portal is the new JuCo pool.
Exactly, it's a two-way street. Sure, you may lose a good player here and there but gain a player going the other way (if you're smart). Were talking about players who are "good." NFL quality players on the other hand will still leave directly to the NFL (al-a Jordan Love) It doesn't make sense to risk getting hurt (or not getting the desired playing time, development, etc.) if you're already draftable.

Another factor that might work in our favor (which I've discussed on the basketball side) is a severely depressed high school market. Perhaps you're able to land higher quality HS talent who were underscouted/overlooked by bigger P5 programs who prioritize transfer talent. Those players will have a major chip on their shoulders and (in theory) demonstrate loyalty to the team/staff that gave them the chance.
Hope it works better in football. In basketball the last guy on a P5 bench isn't going to be as good as a G5 star that goes to the P5 and for the most part we won't get the 10th man on the Kentucky or Duke bench. Those guys are going to other P5 programs. It will not be an even trade where we lose a Merrill or Queta equivalent and an equivalent of their talent just smoothly transfers in to take their place. Maybe some years will hit a homerun in the portal, but most years we will really feel our loss. Think the Collette situation only more often.

You actually strengthened my argument. Yes, losing Collete, Rollie, Marco hurt but they're not NBA-level talent. Instead, we swap them out for guys with equivalent talent like Jones, Harvath, Thelissen, etc. NBA caliber guys (Queta for example) will just leave early for the Draft. Moving from USU to some P5 will not (typically) make any sense for them.

bwcrc · Post by **bwcrc** » May 26th, 2021, 2:52 pm

So have other teams in the MWC lost any players this year transferring to P5 programs? What about schools in the AAC, which is probably the conference on our same level.

On paper at least, USU has benefited from P5 transfers coming. Hopefully that trend continues in future years as well.

USUaggie · Post by **USUaggie** » May 28th, 2021, 12:55 pm

There are still 85 scholarship players per team. Eventually the same number of high school kids have to be taken into the system to maintain 85. Who is going to take the high school players now?

The P5 are taking more G5 transfers that prove themselves and less from high school.

The G5s are taking more P5 transfers looking for more playing time and less from high school since they will lose the best ones anyway.

Something has got to give.

The JCs have the same number of scholarships as before, but potentially could have a higher level of HS talent that will eventually make it into P5 and G5 programs. So a difference could be that a much higher % of JC players go D1. D1 rosters are junior and senior heavy.

But still, something has got to give. How do you go from smaller numbers of HS players entering collage football to larger numbers of upperclassmen? They have to come from somewhere.

Maybe the JCs lose a lot more players after just one year and can take more from HS each year? Maybe D2 and D3 programs are underclassmen heavy as they lose their best players to D1s and they also take more from HS each year? Do D1s (especially G5s) need to scout D2 and D3 like they used to scout high schools?

Also, is the 25 per year limit going to stay? Programs that lose too many players to transfer and graduation may have a hard time maintaining 85 scholarship players.

How has USU been able to sign so many players this year? Push forwards? Are we going to be able to replace our losses next year? The 25 limit could be a huge problem.

Programs that figure this out the best and manage it well will be the winners. We need some highly talented long term strategic planners in our football program.

thegreendalegelf · Post by **thegreendalegelf** » May 28th, 2021, 1:29 pm

USUaggie wrote: ↑
May 28th, 2021, 12:55 pm
There are still 85 scholarship players per team. Eventually the same number of high school kids have to be taken into the system to maintain 85. Who is going to take the high school players now?

The P5 are taking more G5 transfers that prove themselves and less from high school.

The G5s are taking more P5 transfers looking for more playing time and less from high school since they will lose the best ones anyway.

Something has got to give.

The JCs have the same number of scholarships as before, but potentially could have a higher level of HS talent that will eventually make it into P5 and G5 programs. So a difference could be that a much higher % of JC players go D1. D1 rosters are junior and senior heavy.

But still, something has got to give. How do you go from smaller numbers of HS players entering collage football to larger numbers of upperclassmen? They have to come from somewhere.

Maybe the JCs lose a lot more players after just one year and can take more from HS each year? Maybe D2 and D3 programs are underclassmen heavy as they lose their best players to D1s and they also take more from HS each year? Do D1s (especially G5s) need to scout D2 and D3 like they used to scout high schools?

Also, is the 25 per year limit going to stay? Programs that lose too many players to transfer and graduation may have a hard time maintaining 85 scholarship players.

How has USU been able to sign so many players this year? Push forwards? Are we going to be able to replace our losses next year? The 25 limit could be a huge problem.

Programs that figure this out the best and manage it well will be the winners. We need some highly talented long term strategic planners in our football program.

This is exactly why I am not overly concerned with tampering. It may cause a change in the dynamics of how players are grabbed and who schools look at, but it is going to be the same number into D1 and out of D1 every year. This isn't the end of G5 ball. This may even cause a resurgence of P5 guys transferring to G5 schools to get a shot their Junior/Senior years. Right now the cup is at 50% capacity. We can view it as half full or half empty. Either way the same amount of water is there and talking about it doesn't change anything.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » May 28th, 2021, 5:06 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 4:42 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 3:24 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 10:47 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 25th, 2021, 9:55 am
Sure, that is the big problem with the new rule. Good luck to G5 teams holding onto their star underclassmen going forward.
BUT there will be plenty of 3, 4 and 5 star P5 guys looking for a better opportunity that can be used to fill an area of need. It's not pretty but this is the new reality of college hoops and football. The transfer portal is the new JuCo pool.
Exactly, it's a two-way street. Sure, you may lose a good player here and there but gain a player going the other way (if you're smart). Were talking about players who are "good." NFL quality players on the other hand will still leave directly to the NFL (al-a Jordan Love) It doesn't make sense to risk getting hurt (or not getting the desired playing time, development, etc.) if you're already draftable.

Another factor that might work in our favor (which I've discussed on the basketball side) is a severely depressed high school market. Perhaps you're able to land higher quality HS talent who were underscouted/overlooked by bigger P5 programs who prioritize transfer talent. Those players will have a major chip on their shoulders and (in theory) demonstrate loyalty to the team/staff that gave them the chance.
Hope it works better in football. In basketball the last guy on a P5 bench isn't going to be as good as a G5 star that goes to the P5 and for the most part we won't get the 10th man on the Kentucky or Duke bench. Those guys are going to other P5 programs. It will not be an even trade where we lose a Merrill or Queta equivalent and an equivalent of their talent just smoothly transfers in to take their place. Maybe some years will hit a homerun in the portal, but most years we will really feel our loss. Think the Collette situation only more often.
You actually strengthened my argument. Yes, losing Collete, Rollie, Marco hurt but they're not NBA-level talent. Instead, we swap them out for guys with equivalent talent like Jones, Harvath, Thelissen, etc. NBA caliber guys (Queta for example) will just leave early for the Draft. Moving from USU to some P5 will not (typically) make any sense for them.

USU doesn't get NBA talent besides a few rare exceptions and those players don't leave as underclassmen. Queta is the only player to leave early and he stayed 3 years. After his freshman year with the new rule, he would have been a serious risk to leave for a P5 program.

As for Collette, we never swiped him for comparable talent, at least not for several years. We had 3 below average seasons and saw a coach get fired. Rollie and Anthony, we don't know for sure if they'll be successfully replaced. I believe we got a good haul with Odom's UMBC players and Jones from the enemy, but we won't know until the season and that isn't going to be an every year thing that a coach can bring his best players from his past team.

Time will tell if we can fill the gaps of good starters leaving the program early for P5 programs.

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » May 28th, 2021, 5:12 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑
May 28th, 2021, 5:06 pm

but we won't know until the season and that isn't going to be an every year thing that a coach can bring his best players from his past team.

On the flip side, a coach leaving and taking our best players with him isn't going to be an every year thing either.

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