Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by MWCFAN12 » January 15th, 2021, 10:09 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 9:00 pm
MWCFAN12 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 8:48 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 8:30 pm
Ag1918 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:53 pm
travelingagg wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:34 pm
rAggie wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 12:59 pm
Aside from all the drama in the report, I wanted to start a separate thread on the -- I believe previously unknown -- meeting between Cockett and Maile where he campaigned for himself and outlined his recruiting strategy of:

1) Polynesians
2) Locals
3) Return missionaries

While these are all key building blocks of a successful program at Utah State and should always be a focus, to make this a cornerstone of your campaign for candidacy is really short sighted and ineffective, and Pres. Cockett rightfully so would have had concerns about the inclusiveness of this. HE in effect said he was going to make two of the three cornerstones of his program built on racial/cultural factors and religious factors. There's a line between targeting those groups and building a program that works well for those groups and by all accounts here it sounds to me like Frank crossed it.

Seeing the high calibre of student athlete and talent and diversity (in general not racial) of that talent that Blake Anderson is bringing in, I am all the more happy with the decision that Hartwell made.
Jesus Christ. Those are terrible, exclusive pillars. Let's take a look at where USU alumni -- currently on NFL rosters -- fall within these pillars:

USU Alumni in the NFL
1) Polynesians
* None

2) Locals
* Tyler Larsen
* Patrick Scales
* Nick Vigil

3) Return missionaries
* None

4) Excluded from the "three pillars"
* Jalen Davis
* Dominik Eberle
* Kyler Fackrell
* Jalen Greene
* Nevin Lawson
* Dallin Leavitt
* Jordan Love
* Darwin Thompson
* Bobby Wagner

I understand that current NFL players are the result of recruiting strategy and efforts from 6-10+ years ago, but the "three pillars" seem to be significantly lacking. And I see the value in finding talented local athletes to play for their home state's land grant, though we don't win many battles over Utah and Byu for the top talent per aggies22's comment. And although I see a lot of Polynesians in the NFL, the best players seem to be recruited by major programs. But looking where some of our best recruits came from is illuminating.

It turns out that being inclusive and recruiting the best talent, regardless of ethnicity, religion, or origin, appears to be the superior strategy. It sounds like that's the approach Anderson will be taking.
It would be interesting to look back at the last 25 years of Aggie history and see how many of each of the three pillars were on the teams separating winning years and losing years. Please, someone take on the project.
You will find that the Coach sold out by heavily recruiting JuCo guys that helped mask poor recruiting and player development. This goes for Charlie, John L., and Gary.
It is crazy to me how much recruiting has change in the last 10 and 20 years.

20 years ago we had a very small footprint in recruitment. And there were only 20 - 30 teams that truly recruited nationally.

10 years ago we had a very narrow recruitment strategy.

Now nearly every team in the country looks coast to coast at players.
Recruiting services have changed college football for sure.
100% correct. Social media and the digital age have played a huge part as well.
Yes social media has. They way we digest information has changed dramatically. And it works both ways. Kids now can see so much film and tape on schools they know exactly what kind of offense and defense teams run. And what will and wont be a good fit.

20 years ago if a kid from Florida wanted to watch some game film on USU it would have be nearly impossible. Now you could watch it anytime anywhere.

Napster was height of download technically.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Aggiealum13 » January 16th, 2021, 8:24 am

The only one on the three pillars that I'm still in agreement with is "Locals." USU is a public school and should have representation from the state. It may not be the best players from the state, but USU has had a history of having some really good in-state talent. Obviously they should stretch out their arms to other states, transfers, and backgrounds. But in-state recruiting should not be overlooked.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by tkmad » January 16th, 2021, 8:59 am

From Matt Wells presser when he was first hired:

"I've seen the blueprint and not one thing is going to change. We will recruit the state of Utah first and foremost. That's not lip service, it's what going to happen as soon as we hit the road. The Polynesian community will be very influential in that. They will be very much a focus of that program, as well as our missionary program."



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 8:53 am

Prior to Gary 1.0, those three areas were practically ignored. Paying attention to them was the goal, not the sole focus of recruiting.

On the heels of a very avoidable PR faux pas due to insolent insistence that "I know what you meant and you can't tell me differently" I'm going to assume Maile didn't want to be exclusive in his approach
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by LarryTheAggie » January 17th, 2021, 1:33 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote:
January 16th, 2021, 8:24 am
The only one on the three pillars that I'm still in agreement with is "Locals." USU is a public school and should have representation from the state. It may not be the best players from the state, but USU has had a history of having some really good in-state talent. Obviously they should stretch out their arms to other states, transfers, and backgrounds. But in-state recruiting should not be overlooked.
If you are recruiting locals you are also recruiting Polynesians and RMs. Pretty tough to recruit Utah without also recruiting the other two.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by TrueAG » January 17th, 2021, 1:37 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 8:53 am
Prior to Gary 1.0, those three areas were practically ignored. Paying attention to them was the goal, not the sole focus of recruiting.

On the heels of a very avoidable PR faux pas due to insolent insistence that "I know what you meant and you can't tell me differently" I'm going to assume Maile didn't want to be exclusive in his approach
Is that true? I remember a lot of the players were from Utah when I was there in the early 2000's.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 1:45 pm

TrueAG wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 1:37 pm
Is that true? I remember a lot of the players were from Utah when I was there in the early 2000's.
i'm going based on memory -- i was in attendance from 2002-2008.

just prior to GA's arrival here, but after his announced hire, i recall that ron mcbride was on one of the radio shows and talked about those 3 elements to recruiting and how he applied them successfully to the university of utah, and that his expectation was that gary would introduce something similar.

i don't believe there were never any utah kids nor rms nor polynesians on the team prior to that -- and i'm not hearing you say that, either. but i don't believe it was a stated and intentional part of the recruiting formula.

happy to accept correction on the matter.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by TrueAG » January 17th, 2021, 1:50 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 1:45 pm
TrueAG wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 1:37 pm
Is that true? I remember a lot of the players were from Utah when I was there in the early 2000's.
i'm going based on memory -- i was in attendance from 2002-2008.

just prior to GA's arrival here, but after his announced hire, i recall that ron mcbride was on one of the radio shows and talked about those 3 elements to recruiting and how he applied them successfully to the university of utah, and that his expectation was that gary would introduce something similar.

i don't believe there were never any utah kids nor rms nor polynesians on the team prior to that -- and i'm not hearing you say that, either. but i don't believe it was a stated and intentional part of the recruiting formula.

happy to accept correction on the matter.
You may be right. I didn't pay much attention to recruiting then. The stars seemed to be a lot of locals. Curtis, Cooley etc.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by USU78 » January 17th, 2021, 2:17 pm

We had a string of wretched coaches who harvested the seemingly infinite California recruiting grounds, not even competing for local kids, and perplexed by missions. Meanwhile the stench built a big old building on the backs of local kids and RMs.

That's your background for GA 1.0's master plan.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 2:20 pm

USU78 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 2:17 pm
We had a string of wretched coaches who harvested the seemingly infinite California recruiting grounds, not even competing for local kids, and perplexed by missions. Meanwhile the stench built a big old building on the backs of local kids and RMs.

That's your background for GA 1.0's master plan.
We still arent competing for local kids.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by USU78 » January 17th, 2021, 2:21 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 2:20 pm
USU78 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 2:17 pm
We had a string of wretched coaches who harvested the seemingly infinite California recruiting grounds, not even competing for local kids, and perplexed by missions. Meanwhile the stench built a big old building on the backs of local kids and RMs.

That's your background for GA 1.0's master plan.
We still arent competing for local kids.
That battle was lost in the '60 s because we never took the field. This naturally irritated the donor base. If we're going to lose anyway, why not at least be able to watch local kids on the field?
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 2:24 pm

TrueAG wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 1:50 pm
You may be right. I didn't pay much attention to recruiting then. The stars seemed to be a lot of locals. Curtis, Cooley etc.
this is a good point.

i think that prior to GA, we had no organizational vision for what recruiting should consist of. no identity. now, we do. i love that we want kids who WANT to come to utah state and who love the game.

i love that we want to go after in state kids who aren't locks for byu or utah.

i love that we encourage those who want to, to go on missions and then come back.

i love that we are aware of the strong cultural ties and aspects of polynesian culture.

i would love to see us continue to grow in making sure that kids from out of state feel at home and welcome here. that black kids especially feel like they belong and aren't curios or outsiders. a lot of these things are touchy feely squishy human relations that are easy to get wrong and hard to get right. very sandboxy material. but we're going in the right direction, which is great.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 2:26 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 2:20 pm
We still arent competing for local kids.
that is very disappointing. what are your thoughts on why?



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 2:26 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 2:20 pm
We still arent competing for local kids.
that is very disappointing. what are your thoughts on why?
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 3:32 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.
do you see us being able to supplant the dream of playing for byu or utah at all? i have to imagine that would take 10-15 years of sustained success on our part.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Sl7vk » January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:32 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.
do you see us being able to supplant the dream of playing for byu or utah at all? i have to imagine that would take 10-15 years of sustained success on our part.
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 4:21 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:32 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.
do you see us being able to supplant the dream of playing for byu or utah at all? i have to imagine that would take 10-15 years of sustained success on our part.
Something pretty drastic would have to happen for us to change that perception. Like making a FEW New Years 6 Bowl game appearances.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 4:44 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:32 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.
do you see us being able to supplant the dream of playing for byu or utah at all? i have to imagine that would take 10-15 years of sustained success on our part.
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
Exactly! The only top 10 high school guy that I can remember bringing in recently is Hunter Hill and his Dad PLAYED here.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Sl7vk » January 17th, 2021, 5:03 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:44 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:32 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.
do you see us being able to supplant the dream of playing for byu or utah at all? i have to imagine that would take 10-15 years of sustained success on our part.
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
Exactly! The only top 10 high school guy that I can remember bringing in recently is Hunter Hill and his Dad PLAYED here.
This is correct, Hunter was ranked 8th.

Look at this years class top 10 from the State of Utah

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Footb ... l&State=UT

Oregon
Utah
Utah
Utah
Utah
BYU
Leaning Utah (Mason Falslev)
UCLA
Oregon State

So let's look at the next 10
Washington State
BYU
Oregon State
UNLV
BYU
Stanford
BYU
Undecided
BYU
Utah State (Jakob Robninson)

You've got the best players from Utah going to PAC-12 schools.
You have the poly pipeline and RM's going to Utah or BYU depending on their allegiance.
You have a Tongan head coach at BYU that kills us each time we try to go head to head with him on any Polynesian player, or Missionary for that matter.
Why would you keep going back to this well, if it comes up dry all the time!
If you can get some of these top 10 kids, then get them.
But we aren't getting them guys!

We are barely picking up the scraps.
Can you imagine if Frank would have been hired? The dearth of talent on our team 4 years from now would have been mind boggling.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 5:11 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 5:03 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:44 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:32 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:26 pm
P5 schools, utah and byu. Kids grow up dreaming of going to either school or going bigger.
do you see us being able to supplant the dream of playing for byu or utah at all? i have to imagine that would take 10-15 years of sustained success on our part.
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
Exactly! The only top 10 high school guy that I can remember bringing in recently is Hunter Hill and his Dad PLAYED here.
This is correct, Hunter was ranked 8th.

Look at this years class top 10 from the State of Utah

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Footb ... l&State=UT

Oregon
Utah
Utah
Utah
Utah
BYU
Leaning Utah (Mason Falslev)
UCLA
Oregon State

So let's look at the next 10
Washington State
BYU
Oregon State
UNLV
BYU
Stanford
BYU
Undecided
BYU
Utah State (Jakob Robninson)

You've got the best players from Utah going to PAC-12 schools.
You have the poly pipeline and RM's going to Utah or BYU depending on their allegiance.
You have a Tongan head coach at BYU that kills us each time we try to go head to head with him on any Polynesian player, or Missionary for that matter.
Why would you keep going back to this well, if it comes up dry all the time!
If you can get some of these top 10 kids, then get them.
But we aren't getting them guys!
It sounds like you and I are on the same page my Aggie brother. If we want in-state kids we have to get on them as sophomores or juniors.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
many of you have forgotten more about recruiting that i could possibly ever know. as a result, my perspective is pretty crappy.

however, frank maile was one guy in the last 4 years who did not oversee nor direct the recruiting approach. imo, pointing to a lack of utah/rm/polynesian recruits over that time span as evidence that Frank's plan was not working isn't good data in support of that assertion.

it may very well be that usu can't be as successful as we all like by focusing recruiting efforts on, primarily, poly/rm/utah kids, as you showed with this year's sample.

help me understand your position, and yours too, @aggies22 : are you saying that with finite resources we should decrease the amount of effort to recruiting poly/rm/utah kids because we have a low success rate in recruiting them? would it be fair to characterize your approach as practically 'ignoring' them because there's no chance we can get them, anyhow?



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 6:04 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 5:49 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
many of you have forgotten more about recruiting that i could possibly ever know. as a result, my perspective is pretty crappy.

however, frank maile was one guy in the last 4 years who did not oversee nor direct the recruiting approach. imo, pointing to a lack of utah/rm/polynesian recruits over that time span as evidence that Frank's plan was not working isn't good data in support of that assertion.

it may very well be that usu can't be as successful as we all like by focusing recruiting efforts on, primarily, poly/rm/utah kids, as you showed with this year's sample.

help me understand your position, and yours too, @aggies22 : are you saying that with finite resources we should decrease the amount of effort to recruiting poly/rm/utah kids because we have a low success rate in recruiting them? would it be fair to characterize your approach as practically 'ignoring' them because there's no chance we can get them, anyhow?
You can't afford to ignore them. Which is why I stated we need to identify, contact and offer most top end in-state prospects by their sophomore or junior year. But once they begin to clearly lose interest cut your losses and find someone who actually wants to be here. No one can deny our ridiculously LOW success rate within not only the top 20 but the top 25 prospects. Most in-state guys we've given scholarships to in the last few recruiting cycles should have been preferred walk-ons here or on scholarship at an FCS school.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 6:07 pm

AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 5:49 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
many of you have forgotten more about recruiting that i could possibly ever know. as a result, my perspective is pretty crappy.

however, frank maile was one guy in the last 4 years who did not oversee nor direct the recruiting approach. imo, pointing to a lack of utah/rm/polynesian recruits over that time span as evidence that Frank's plan was not working isn't good data in support of that assertion.

it may very well be that usu can't be as successful as we all like by focusing recruiting efforts on, primarily, poly/rm/utah kids, as you showed with this year's sample.

help me understand your position, and yours too, @aggies22 : are you saying that with finite resources we should decrease the amount of effort to recruiting poly/rm/utah kids because we have a low success rate in recruiting them? would it be fair to characterize your approach as practically 'ignoring' them because there's no chance we can get them, anyhow?
I'm also saying that the last coaching staff PASSED on MUCH HIGHER rated out of state recruits in order to give scholarships to MUCH LOWER rated in-state recruits.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Aggie84025 » January 17th, 2021, 6:10 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 6:04 pm
AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 5:49 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
many of you have forgotten more about recruiting that i could possibly ever know. as a result, my perspective is pretty crappy.

however, frank maile was one guy in the last 4 years who did not oversee nor direct the recruiting approach. imo, pointing to a lack of utah/rm/polynesian recruits over that time span as evidence that Frank's plan was not working isn't good data in support of that assertion.

it may very well be that usu can't be as successful as we all like by focusing recruiting efforts on, primarily, poly/rm/utah kids, as you showed with this year's sample.

help me understand your position, and yours too, @aggies22 : are you saying that with finite resources we should decrease the amount of effort to recruiting poly/rm/utah kids because we have a low success rate in recruiting them? would it be fair to characterize your approach as practically 'ignoring' them because there's no chance we can get them, anyhow?
You can't afford to ignore them. Which is why I stated we need to identify, contact and offer most top end in-state prospects by their sophomore or junior year. But once they begin to clearly lose interest cut your losses and find someone who actually wants to be here. No one can deny our ridiculously LOW success rate within not only the top 20 but the top 25 prospects. Most in-state guys we've given scholarships to in the last few recruiting cycles should have been preferred walk-ons here or on scholarship at an FCS school.
I agree you can't just abandon it, but it can't be your only option as well. Pick up 3-4 good guys that you can devlop and few more walk ons. I agree we should be targeting kids and offering in state guys when they are sophomores if they have any sort of potential to get the ball rolling. YOu won't keep them all, but you can keep some of them.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2021, 6:14 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 6:10 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 6:04 pm
AndroidAggie wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 5:49 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm
And that is the problem and why the 3 pillars don’t work anymore.
Who did Frank bring in the last 4 years with his 3 pillars? A poor plan that is well executed can work. Frank’s problem was he had a poor plan poorly executed.
many of you have forgotten more about recruiting that i could possibly ever know. as a result, my perspective is pretty crappy.

however, frank maile was one guy in the last 4 years who did not oversee nor direct the recruiting approach. imo, pointing to a lack of utah/rm/polynesian recruits over that time span as evidence that Frank's plan was not working isn't good data in support of that assertion.

it may very well be that usu can't be as successful as we all like by focusing recruiting efforts on, primarily, poly/rm/utah kids, as you showed with this year's sample.

help me understand your position, and yours too, @aggies22 : are you saying that with finite resources we should decrease the amount of effort to recruiting poly/rm/utah kids because we have a low success rate in recruiting them? would it be fair to characterize your approach as practically 'ignoring' them because there's no chance we can get them, anyhow?
You can't afford to ignore them. Which is why I stated we need to identify, contact and offer most top end in-state prospects by their sophomore or junior year. But once they begin to clearly lose interest cut your losses and find someone who actually wants to be here. No one can deny our ridiculously LOW success rate within not only the top 20 but the top 25 prospects. Most in-state guys we've given scholarships to in the last few recruiting cycles should have been preferred walk-ons here or on scholarship at an FCS school.
I agree you can't just abandon it, but it can't be your only option as well. Pick up 3-4 good guys that you can devlop and few more walk ons. I agree we should be targeting kids and offering in state guys when they are sophomores if they have any sort of potential to get the ball rolling. YOu won't keep them all, but you can keep some of them.
At the rate we've been going I wouldn't even take 3 or 4 as scholarship guys unless they were in the top 20 or the top 25 of an unusually strong class.

I know what I'm saying won't make me very popular around here but I'm being very real about it.



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Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 17th, 2021, 6:33 pm

Hilariously stupid to blame the last 4 years (two different head coaches, neither of which were Fank???) of poor recruiting on Frank Maile?


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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 6:35 pm

very good thoughts and observations -- esp about offering lower ranked/talented utah kids and passing on higher ranked/talented non utah kids, @aggies22 .

i hope that the coaching staff has enough bandwidth to remember to hit up utah when the opportunity does arise.

it also occurs to me that although they don't always hit the NFL, polynesian/rm/utah kids were helpful in making us competitive from 2011 through 2015. al lapuaho, ricky ali'ifua, bojay filimoeatu, vigil brothers, fackrell (mormon and RM'ish even if he didn't expressly go), tyler larsen, travis van leeuwen, dj tialavea, josh thompson, cameron webb, jaron bentrude, etc...

not all world class nfl guys, but that blue collar hard work glad to be here ethic. i hope we don't pass on guys like that.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Imakeitrain » January 17th, 2021, 6:36 pm

I like a lot of our transfer recruits and an skeptical any pillars get us the transfers we have.


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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 6:42 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 6:14 pm
At the rate we've been going I wouldn't even take 3 or 4 as scholarship guys unless they were in the top 20 or the top 25 of an unusually strong class.

I know what I'm saying won't make me very popular around here but I'm being very real about it.
no hate from me, here, my dude.

i am just sensitive to the idea of folks coming in to lead our football program, looking at the intricacies of utah culture -- rm's, polynesian fellas, and utah in general -- and just say "yeah forget this."

if this feeling is shared i can totally see how the messaging got perverted into "frank maile isn't the man for the job because he's from utah, is mormon, is poly, etc...

not excusing anyone's reaction nor accusing anyone of anything. just that when you talk about this stuff it can easily spin out of control.



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AndroidAggie » January 17th, 2021, 6:46 pm

for the record, i also don't think anyone should expect lawyerly talk where if you DON'T mention utah, rm, poly, out of state, etc, then that means you don't want it.

there's a lot of considerations that go into recruiting -- i would imagine -- and i think we can all agree on the following:

- we want kids who want to be here
- we want kids who love football
- we want kids who will work their butts off
- we want to be amenable to kids who elect to serve missions
- we don't want to ignore utah high schools
- we want to be sensitive to cultural norms of recruits - be they african american, polynesian, or what have you. insofar as polynesian culture (tongan, samoan, hawaiian, etc) are pretty foundational part of the state of utah football identity, this one feels like a no brainer to me. insofar as utah does not have a lot of black folks living here, i can begin to imagine how a young black man from out of utah may feel alien or unwelcome. cultural sensitivity is just plain human kindness, imo.
- we aren't afraid to have one recruiting class or another look like it's ignoring one area or another if that gets us a good recruiting class of kids who love usu and want to be here and can help us win
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Harcher » January 17th, 2021, 6:58 pm

So how is the concept outdated? Was there ever a time when we got top 20 from Utah? I’m drinking coolaid that GA1.0 was first real success at doing this.

Also, the concept is not won or lost solely on losses to Y Or U. Could we win a few that might go to peer school because of cultural connection here? That is, it is an advantage for a set of targets. Are there worthy targets? Any left? Or just In today’s world, there are many good targets outside the 3 metrics that need a place like USU?



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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by AGGIEFIGHT » January 17th, 2021, 7:57 pm

My opinion is Gary had the advantage of improved facilities which made a big difference and he could sell a recruit that USU was a program on the rise. Brent Guy recruited some good skill players for Gary to work with (turbin and Wagner). Garys. real talent was recruiting 2stars players that had good talent but were undersized and often overlooked by other
teams. Vigil, Sutera, Demartini and Tyler Larsen are examples. These players put on muscle .and worked there tails off to become all leauge players.. The big breakthru came when they got Chuckie to commit. I remember they went all out in his recruiting visit and how big a deal when he committed to us. They felt at the time they could compete with most of schools. out there..
I think the last couple of years we have slipped in our evaluation of recruits. Our number of nfl draft prospects has gone
down . We are told by the coaches how great of recruiting class we signed. These rankings have have not been
born out with results on the field.. The three pillars are great but only if the lead to recruiting the best players available.
I believe this can change with the right coaching staff. that does a better job of evaluting talent. Coaches tell me if they
they can get a player to come on a recruiting visit with there parents they have a good chance to get a player to sign. Some of the things we take for granted like the graduation rate, low crime and the mountains play well to recruits from urban areas
I am hopeful that the new coaching staff can turn things around. time will tell
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by tkmad » January 17th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Earlier I posted quotes from Matt Wells intro press conference... Here's some from Gary 1.0. Just surprised how many were shocked at Franks comments about the 3 pillars. I think it'd been the focus (or lip service) from Anderson and Wells..my guess is Frank intended to carry on what he had been hearing but maybe came across wrong when he was taking with da Pres...but...not like he came up with the idea on his own.

From desnews article:

How did he pull it off?

"We had a plan, one I watched succeed and grew up in with Coach Mac (former Ute coach Ron McBride)," says Andersen. "And as a player (at Utah), I had seen LaVell (Edwards) execute the plan."


The plan:

Tap the Polynesian recruiting pipeline. When Andersen came to Logan, the Aggies had five Polynesian players on the team; they now have 21.

Recruit in-state players. The Ags have 55 in-state players on the roster; there were 18 when Andersen arrived.

Build a stronger walk-on program. The Aggies have about 15 walk-ons on their roster this season. During Andersen's four years in Logan, 15 walk-ons have been awarded scholarships.


Develop a serious missionary program. When Andersen took over, the Ags had only a handful of current and former LDS Church missionaries on the team. Now they have 24 of them on the roster, eight in the mission field and three on the coaching staff.
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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by CaptainChaos » January 17th, 2021, 9:09 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:Hilariously stupid to blame the last 4 years (two different head coaches, neither of which were Fank???) of poor recruiting on Frank Maile?


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Hasn’t frank been primarily the Utah guy though? I’m asking genuinely... I thought his recruiting area has been pretty much just Utah.


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Re: Maile's "three pillars" recruiting strategy (from the report)

Post by Sl7vk » January 17th, 2021, 9:24 pm

Guys, it's pretty simple. Think of it as globalization (and I'm not casting any judgement pro or con on this).

Did RCA do a great job of manufacturing CRT TV's in Indianapolis for 40 years. Yes. Should they start up again. No.

In the McBride, LaVelle, and GA 1.0 years, it wasn't a global world. It was small.
Oregon would never have come to Utah to get a top 10 kid. They barely knew Utah existed.
That's over. The top PAC-12 schools are all over the talented kids here, and they weren't 10 years ago.
Same goes for the Polynesian recruits. For whatever reason in GA 1.0 they were under recruited. Fast forward 10 years and that is just plain over.

10 years ago you could recruit the state and get 3 of the top 10 kids. Now you consider it a banner year if you get 1.

Look at it from a data point of view.

Utah has roughly 3.2 million people.
California has 40 million.

We are number 3 in line to get kids to come here.
40/3.2 is 12.5 . 12.5 x 3 is 37.5.
So in California recruiting, if we are better than a kid's 37.5's best option, we are better than 3rd in Utah.
So let's think about that for a minute... Not even talking about Texas or Florida.
Let's assume a kid from California didn't get an offer from anyone in the PAC-12. That's 12 schools we can't beat anyway. Now that same kid has a few MW offers and a few MAC offers. The level of athlete, from a pure statistical probability point of view will be better than 3rd choice from a state with 3.2 million people.

I'm as romantic as the next guy, but this ship has sailed. The quicker we accept that, the quicker we become competitive again on the the recruiting trail.
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