INNOCENT!

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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by AgMac » January 15th, 2021, 3:18 pm

AggieUprising50 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:06 pm
The fact that you believe the players conspired against the program and lied about their university President because their coach wasn’t hired instead of all of this being a genuine misunderstanding is beyond me.
Depends whether your definition of "conspiracy" is: (i) complete fabrication, or (ii) monumental and intentional stretching of the truth. Because the latter absolutely occurred when the players didn't get their way.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Stewie Griffin » January 15th, 2021, 3:20 pm

rAggie wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 12:24 pm
No one should be surprised by this. Frank Maile owes some people an apology. As for the football players...I don't even know how to feel.
Three things need to happen immediately.
1) Frank Maile needs to make a public apology to Present Cockett, Mr Hartwell and all of Aggie Nation.
2) The "leadership" council needs to make a public apology to President Cockett, Mr Hartwell and all of Aggie Nation.
3) The instigator's of this witch hunt need to be sent packing.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Aggie84025 » January 15th, 2021, 3:21 pm

GeoAg wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 3:12 pm
As I read the report, I see a huge failure by Hartwell to share that he knew the meeting was about Frank with Noelle. She went in expecting a different conversation and that contributed in large part to this misunderstanding. I didn't see anywhere that he shared with her that this was about Frank and not about more general concerns as Noelle perceived. He does state that he knew what is was about. had she been prepared with that context going in, instead of finding out during the meeting, all of this probably would have gone down differently.
I agree, Hartwell should have let her know this was going to pitch by the players of why Maile should get the job and not a discussion about how included they are feeling at USU.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by AgMac » January 15th, 2021, 3:28 pm

I'm going to reserve judgment until oleblue and intermeddler release their report.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Donman » January 15th, 2021, 3:28 pm

Very disappointed in Maile. We made the right decision to move on.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 15th, 2021, 3:32 pm

The bigger issue to me is the people than to made wild allegations against Noelle Cockett. I read that she "hated Mormons", there was a conspiracy to make USU unfriendly to certain religions, and other allegations.

I stand FIRMLY behind my own personal experiences, that was a bunch of bunk. She is a very professional individual, and a personally nice person. The whole thing is ridiculous to me. Coaching is a very high risk/high reward profession. Lots of good coaches are fired all the time, and few ever go out like this.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Intermeddler » January 15th, 2021, 3:35 pm

AgMac wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 3:28 pm
I'm going to reserve judgment until oleblue and intermeddler release their report.
As you should.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by GeoAg » January 15th, 2021, 3:48 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 3:15 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:49 pm
On Friday morning, Jerry Bovee contacted Hartwell and said, “[w]e have
a problem.” He told him that the players were not going to play the final game.
Hartwell believed the players were upset about Coach Maile not being hired as
head coach. Hartwell contacted Coach Maile (after some difficulty) and asked
Coach Maile if he could get the players to reconsider. Coach Maile told Hartwell
he could not stop them, and that he “was at peace with what they have done.”
THis statement really made an impression on me. First, Frank obviously knew about the players decision and then made it difficult for Hartwell to get a hold of him when he is the acting head coach. 2nd he didn't even try to bring the players together to convince them that playing the game was the right thing to do. It is clear Hartwell made the right choice in not hiring Frank and instead hiring BA. His other comment about what has BA done just shows how out of tune he really is. BA's resume is 10 times stronger than Maile's and he was actually a successful head coach. Hearing what Maile's pitch was as a head coach was really narrow minded in today's college football. I am so happy with the direction that BA is taking the program so far, it is just really refreshing. This whole situation is really unfortunate, but its nice to move on. The problem with these situations is even though she was cleared of wrong doing the court of public opinion and the media will still portray her and hartwell in a negative light.
Yes, the fact that Frank knew they were doing this and didn't reach out to Hartwell...and on top of that was tough to reach, and then refused to try to get them to play is a bad deal. Would be interested to hear Frank's side, but wow
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by NavyBlueAggie » January 15th, 2021, 3:51 pm

I expect future potentially tenuous meetings like this disaster will be properly recorded and with a firm itinerary published in advance. The lingering recriminations, emotions and finger pointing are so non beneficial and negative to Utah State University and our school president.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by USU78 » January 15th, 2021, 4:04 pm

Rule of thumb. If it's possible that you are being set up, take precautions against being set up.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by sneed » January 15th, 2021, 4:09 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote:I expect future potentially tenuous meetings like this disaster will be properly recorded and with a firm itinerary published in advance. The lingering recriminations, emotions and finger pointing are so non beneficial and negative to Utah State University and our school president.
Pretty sure she will let the AD handle these for a while.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by fivejazzfans » January 15th, 2021, 4:40 pm

Two things:

(1) How many of the players in attendance on the zoom call do you think were scrolling through their texts/social media on their phones? Can anyone honestly say that they do not tune out during zoom meetings from time to time to check their phones? These are 20 year old kids - they are addicted to their phones. Reading the report shows there sure was a lot of opinions, recollections, understandings of the meeting.

(2) This hit job and rush to judgement mentioned in this article was a bad take then and even worse now

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-stat ... e-pacific/
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by NavyBlueAggie » January 15th, 2021, 4:40 pm

Agree with you Sneed, suspect he should have done so the first time around, and I wonder where our assistant and well qualified A D Jerry Bovee was during this time.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 15th, 2021, 4:50 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote:The bigger issue to me is the people than to made wild allegations against Noelle Cockett. I read that she "hated Mormons", there was a conspiracy to make USU unfriendly to certain religions, and other allegations.

I stand FIRMLY behind my own personal experiences, that was a bunch of bunk. She is a very professional individual, and a personally nice person. The whole thing is ridiculous to me. Coaching is a very high risk/high reward profession. Lots of good coaches are fired all the time, and few ever go out like this.
Me saying she says she hates Mormons is because she very factually says that to our mutual friends. On a consistent basis. That’s not an allegation. Say what you want, I do not care.


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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Chod » January 15th, 2021, 4:57 pm

This hurts the University in 2 ways:
  • It plays to the "White Conspiracy & Institutional Bias" narrative that the players were claiming
  • It shows that the players concerns were marginalized while Cocket and Hartwell's accounts were taken at face value
Overall, this decision is probably going to sit poorly with players who don't trust the institution and felt justified in the actions they took. This isn't a victory, it is just another wedge that continues to divide us.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 15th, 2021, 5:02 pm

Chod wrote:This hurts the University in 2 ways:
  • It plays to the "White Conspiracy & Institutional Bias" narrative that the players were claiming
  • It shows that the players concerns were marginalized while Cocket and Hartwell's accounts were taken at face value
Overall, this decision is probably going to sit poorly with players who don't trust the institution and felt justified in the actions they took. This isn't a victory, it is just another wedge that continues to divide us.
I don’t know how I feel about it all as I haven’t had a real chance to sit down and read the report. But it looks to me like the entire report is based off of taking Hartwell’s word for it? Which definitely may not sit well with certain people.


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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by CastIronAggie » January 15th, 2021, 5:02 pm

sneed wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:09 pm
NavyBlueAggie wrote:I expect future potentially tenuous meetings like this disaster will be properly recorded and with a firm itinerary published in advance. The lingering recriminations, emotions and finger pointing are so non beneficial and negative to Utah State University and our school president.
Pretty sure she will let the AD handle these for a while.
Or just have no input from the players at all and make them live with admins decisions.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by 3rdGenAggie » January 15th, 2021, 5:06 pm

fivejazzfans wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:40 pm
Two things:

(1) How many of the players in attendance on the zoom call do you think were scrolling through their texts/social media on their phones? Can anyone honestly say that they do not tune out during zoom meetings from time to time to check their phones? These are 20 year old kids - they are addicted to their phones. Reading the report shows there sure was a lot of opinions, recollections, understandings of the meeting.

(2) This hit job and rush to judgement mentioned in this article was a bad take then and even worse now

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-stat ... e-pacific/
Regarding number one, remember that there was several days of consolidating what they all heard before even bringing it up to the media and therefore before being interviewed for this report.

I'm not saying it was an intentional hit job, but people want their beliefs to be backed up by others and one way to get that is to feed people what you believe first. Most people who don't have a strong opinion or weren't paying close attention will tend to agree or will suddenly remember things the same way you do. That's just human nature.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Stewie Griffin » January 15th, 2021, 5:23 pm

coolag wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:50 pm
LOL @ Maile and the players. This was about one thing and one thing only. Maile and some players didn't get their way.
My belief and only my opinion, is that what we had was a bunch of ignorant brats that just didn't want to go to fort Collins and get their asses handed them in 30° weather.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Stewie Griffin » January 15th, 2021, 5:27 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 3:21 pm
GeoAg wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 3:12 pm
As I read the report, I see a huge failure by Hartwell to share that he knew the meeting was about Frank with Noelle. She went in expecting a different conversation and that contributed in large part to this misunderstanding. I didn't see anywhere that he shared with her that this was about Frank and not about more general concerns as Noelle perceived. He does state that he knew what is was about. had she been prepared with that context going in, instead of finding out during the meeting, all of this probably would have gone down differently.
I agree, Hartwell should have let her know this was going to pitch by the players of why Maile should get the job and not a discussion about how included they are feeling at USU.
I didn't see that at all in the report
FAKE NEWS
Let's move on



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by ViAggie » January 15th, 2021, 5:31 pm

Stewie Griffin wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 5:23 pm
coolag wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:50 pm
LOL @ Maile and the players. This was about one thing and one thing only. Maile and some players didn't get their way.
My belief and only my opinion, is that what we had was a bunch of ignorant brats that just didn't want to go to fort Collins and get their asses handed them in 30° weather.
I actually called it, you can go back and look at the CSU game prediction and I said the team will find a way to boycott or forfeit this game, and then BOOM it happened. Indeed they did. Sad


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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by cval » January 15th, 2021, 5:36 pm

I think the players believed they were in a more powerful position than they were.

Power is a resource that can be used effectively or squandered. They believed that in this society, where things are often decided in the court of public opinion rather than through a real examination of the facts, they could create enough negative perception of the University that the would be forced to take action in order to save face.

Fortunately, the Board of Regents didn't bow to the pressure, kept their heads, and came up with a reasoned and rational response. There will be some (Heninger) who will claim that they were ignored and nothing will change. That is not true. This will be remembered and people will be more careful in the future. The outcome will not be the one they wanted, but it will facilitate change.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by Aggie84025 » January 15th, 2021, 5:51 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 5:06 pm
fivejazzfans wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:40 pm
Two things:

(1) How many of the players in attendance on the zoom call do you think were scrolling through their texts/social media on their phones? Can anyone honestly say that they do not tune out during zoom meetings from time to time to check their phones? These are 20 year old kids - they are addicted to their phones. Reading the report shows there sure was a lot of opinions, recollections, understandings of the meeting.

(2) This hit job and rush to judgement mentioned in this article was a bad take then and even worse now

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-stat ... e-pacific/
Regarding number one, remember that there was several days of consolidating what they all heard before even bringing it up to the media and therefore before being interviewed for this report.

I'm not saying it was an intentional hit job, but people want their beliefs to be backed up by others and one way to get that is to feed people what you believe first. Most people who don't have a strong opinion or weren't paying close attention will tend to agree or will suddenly remember things the same way you do. That's just human nature.
The report mentioned this as well. It mentioned that the players had a few meetings prior to the whole situation going public. It also stated that the players' reports were remarkably similar in context of how they reported in the interview. It sounds like the players were already frustrated prior to the meeting about the other athletic department employee situation from a year earlier which then escalated when talking with Cockett. Surely Cockett could probably have done a better job of explaining herself in the meeting, but her understanding of what the meeting was was entirely different than the players. In addition she was also concerned about the inclusivity of Maile's recruiting strategy that Maile shared with her. Just an unfortunate situation overall.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 15th, 2021, 5:51 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:50 pm
NowhereLandAggie wrote:The bigger issue to me is the people than to made wild allegations against Noelle Cockett. I read that she "hated Mormons", there was a conspiracy to make USU unfriendly to certain religions, and other allegations.

I stand FIRMLY behind my own personal experiences, that was a bunch of bunk. She is a very professional individual, and a personally nice person. The whole thing is ridiculous to me. Coaching is a very high risk/high reward profession. Lots of good coaches are fired all the time, and few ever go out like this.
Me saying she says she hates Mormons is because she very factually says that to our mutual friends. On a consistent basis. That’s not an allegation. Say what you want, I do not care.


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I will say it, because I am one, she was never that way to me or anyone else that I heard of, and never showed any inkling for that as well. Mine was not second hand information, it was personal experiences. Others on here said the same thing that have had interactions with her. She may not be fond of every one she ever met, but then again neither am I.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 15th, 2021, 5:55 pm

cval wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 5:36 pm
I think the players believed they were in a more powerful position than they were.

Power is a resource that can be used effectively or squandered. They believed that in this society, where things are often decided in the court of public opinion rather than through a real examination of the facts, they could create enough negative perception of the University that the would be forced to take action in order to save face.

Fortunately, the Board of Regents didn't bow to the pressure, kept their heads, and came up with a reasoned and rational response. There will be some (Heninger) who will claim that they were ignored and nothing will change. That is not true. This will be remembered and people will be more careful in the future. The outcome will not be the one they wanted, but it will facilitate change.
As you well know, this is not an elected position, and a simple complaint can't bring a person down because of the faculty code. People do have freedom to say and do things that may not be the most popular without fear of losing their jobs.

Not sure the players knew that though.



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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 15th, 2021, 6:12 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 4:50 pm
NowhereLandAggie wrote:The bigger issue to me is the people than to made wild allegations against Noelle Cockett. I read that she "hated Mormons", there was a conspiracy to make USU unfriendly to certain religions, and other allegations.

I stand FIRMLY behind my own personal experiences, that was a bunch of bunk. She is a very professional individual, and a personally nice person. The whole thing is ridiculous to me. Coaching is a very high risk/high reward profession. Lots of good coaches are fired all the time, and few ever go out like this.
Me saying she says she hates Mormons is because she very factually says that to our mutual friends. On a consistent basis. That’s not an allegation. Say what you want, I do not care.


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I will say it, because I am one, she was never that way to me or anyone else that I heard of, and never showed any inkling for that as well. Mine was not second hand information, it was personal experiences. Others on here said the same thing that have had interactions with her. She may not be fond of every one she ever met, but then again neither am I.
That’s awesome man, I never said she was rude to Mormons to their faces and I specifically said I believe she would never take that opinion into the work place with her. The way you’re spinning what I’ve said is ridiculous.
She says it, she says it on a consistent basis. And that is completely fine.


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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by ineptimusprime » January 15th, 2021, 6:14 pm

So I read the thing. This likely will not be a popular opinion here, but I found the report and its conclusions pretty unsatisfying and unconvincing, at least in terms of getting closure on what the heck actually happened.

In fairness to the law firms preparing this, they didn't have much to work with. The players were all over the place in terms of what happened at the meeting. I don't know how you can draw any firm conclusions from the jumbled mess of information the players gave them. On the other hand, the responses from Hartwell and Cockett feel, understandably, a bit curated and "lawyered."

Hartwell is a great AD, but it looks like he really should have done a better job preparing President Cockett for what this meeting was going to be about. It sounds like she went into a meeting wanting to talk about inclusiveness to a group of players that don't even know what the word inclusiveness means, and who had an entirely different idea of what the topic of the meeting was supposed to be. And from there, the problems started.

I'll leave it at that.
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by JSHarvey » January 15th, 2021, 6:23 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 3:15 pm
Sl7vk wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:49 pm
On Friday morning, Jerry Bovee contacted Hartwell and said, “[w]e have
a problem.” He told him that the players were not going to play the final game.
Hartwell believed the players were upset about Coach Maile not being hired as
head coach. Hartwell contacted Coach Maile (after some difficulty) and asked
Coach Maile if he could get the players to reconsider. Coach Maile told Hartwell
he could not stop them, and that he “was at peace with what they have done.”
THis statement really made an impression on me. First, Frank obviously knew about the players decision and then made it difficult for Hartwell to get a hold of him when he is the acting head coach. 2nd he didn't even try to bring the players together to convince them that playing the game was the right thing to do. It is clear Hartwell made the right choice in not hiring Frank and instead hiring BA. His other comment about what has BA done just shows how out of tune he really is. BA's resume is 10 times stronger than Maile's and he was actually a successful head coach. Hearing what Maile's pitch was as a head coach was really narrow minded in today's college football. I am so happy with the direction that BA is taking the program so far, it is just really refreshing. This whole situation is really unfortunate, but its nice to move on. The problem with these situations is even though she was cleared of wrong doing the court of public opinion and the media will still portray her and hartwell in a negative light.
This, 100% this. I wonder how Boise feels about Frank after reading that paragraph? I think Frank was quite lucky that the decision to hire him was made before this report was published.

I think Frank contributed to the success of USU football over the years, and gave great effort. However, he was not Head Coach material - but he absolutely believed he was. The breaking point was reached during this coaching search were it became apparent to him that USU head coach was not likely to ever be a title he would obtain. He did not handle learning that well.


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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by CaptainChaos » January 15th, 2021, 6:31 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
AggieUprising50 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:37 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:25 pm
AggieUprising50 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 1:11 pm
I think this exert from the article describes it best:

“ During the Zoom meeting Pres. Cockett described Logan and Cache Valley as unique communities that can sometimes seem to not be inclusive to outsiders. Because the athletes were focused on expressing their support for Coach Maile, we conclude that it is likely they understandably interpreted Pres. Cockett’s comments as a criticism of or commentary on Coach Maile, which triggered a number of athletes to defend Coach Maile as being inclusive and supportive of athletes regardless of their religious background.”

To me it sounds like President Crockett was trying to pander to some of the players instead of understanding what they were trying to say and it backfired.

None of the players or Frank should be ashamed or receive any blame for their actions. There obviously was a miscommunication and the article itself states that they “understandably interpreted....” (the wrong way).

With that said, I’m happy she’s not getting fired for this. Misunderstandings like this happen all the time and I’m glad we can all move on with our lives.

Here’s to a successful 2021 season! :utah: :state:
Not really sure how you reached that conclusion
Because the article states that she thought the purpose of the call was to check in on the well being of the players (while they wanted to use it as a pitch for Maile).

In that context, why else would she ramble on about how uninclusive Cashe Valley is and so on knowing that there are a lot of out of state athletes on the call?
You say that none of the players or Frank should be ashamed.
After reading the report I disagree.
Especially since this could have been easily resolved by just about any way short of a tantrum.


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MWCFAN12
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by MWCFAN12 » January 15th, 2021, 7:29 pm

coolag wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:59 pm
MWCFAN12 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:48 pm
2004AG wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:17 pm
I think this makes Frank look really bad. He handled this poorly and Hartwell and Cockett made the right decision.

(I know that continues to make me a piece of sh*t MWCFAN12, and that you feel sorry for anybody that has to be around me)
I said that because you were jumping to a conclusion with a issue you knew nothing about. You had zero facts. And very willing to destroy a guy publicly without any clue what happen.

I stand by my statement. And you proved my point with this post.
And he was right. Frank is a douche.

So Frank didn't feel compelled to help out a company that just fired him ? I can't imagine why.

I'm sure if you ask him now he will say he could have handled it better. But if you ever hired or fired anybody I'm sure you would understand that they are under no obligation to help you out.



coolag
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by coolag » January 15th, 2021, 7:40 pm

MWCFAN12 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 7:29 pm
coolag wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:59 pm
MWCFAN12 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:48 pm
2004AG wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:17 pm
I think this makes Frank look really bad. He handled this poorly and Hartwell and Cockett made the right decision.

(I know that continues to make me a piece of sh*t MWCFAN12, and that you feel sorry for anybody that has to be around me)
I said that because you were jumping to a conclusion with a issue you knew nothing about. You had zero facts. And very willing to destroy a guy publicly without any clue what happen.

I stand by my statement. And you proved my point with this post.
And he was right. Frank is a douche.

So Frank didn't feel compelled to help out a company that just fired him ? I can't imagine why.

I'm sure if you ask him now he will say he could have handled it better. But if you ever hired or fired anybody I'm sure you would understand that they are under no obligation to help you out.
He wasn't fired yet though. He was under contract until the end of the year and being paid until then as well.



72AgGrad
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by 72AgGrad » January 15th, 2021, 7:44 pm

I think there is an element here of "I'm sure you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you thought you heard is not what I meant".



coolag
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by coolag » January 15th, 2021, 7:47 pm

72AgGrad wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 7:44 pm
I think there is an element here of "I'm sure you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you thought you heard is not what I meant".
I agree. That is why a call or meeting to clarify comments could have solved all of it. But what fun is that?



MWCFAN12
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by MWCFAN12 » January 15th, 2021, 7:47 pm

coolag wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 7:40 pm
MWCFAN12 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 7:29 pm
coolag wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:59 pm
MWCFAN12 wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:48 pm
2004AG wrote:
January 15th, 2021, 2:17 pm
I think this makes Frank look really bad. He handled this poorly and Hartwell and Cockett made the right decision.

(I know that continues to make me a piece of sh*t MWCFAN12, and that you feel sorry for anybody that has to be around me)
I said that because you were jumping to a conclusion with a issue you knew nothing about. You had zero facts. And very willing to destroy a guy publicly without any clue what happen.

I stand by my statement. And you proved my point with this post.
And he was right. Frank is a douche.

So Frank didn't feel compelled to help out a company that just fired him ? I can't imagine why.

I'm sure if you ask him now he will say he could have handled it better. But if you ever hired or fired anybody I'm sure you would understand that they are under no obligation to help you out.
He wasn't fired yet though. He was under contract until the end of the year and being paid until then as well.
And told he was not going to be renewed



coolag
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Re: INNOCENT!

Post by coolag » January 15th, 2021, 7:50 pm

You're right. But like I said. Swallow your pride, motivate the players to play and coach the f'ing game to finish the year like Brent Guy did. Instead, imo he looks like a crybaby who didn't get his way.



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