Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by Aggie84025 » January 14th, 2021, 11:18 am

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:13 am
USU78 wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:06 am
USU78 wrote:
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Can’t speak to all of those, but I at least know she hates Mormons.
And I can't speak to that. I know both of my brothers think that.
Yeah that’s the only part I’m certain of- we have the same close friend group. Definitely doubt she hates Polys.


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Why would she want to work at university where a 50-60% of the students are mormons if she dislikes them so much? If i disliked a group of people that much I would not want to work at a place filled with them.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by USU78 » January 14th, 2021, 11:23 am

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:18 am
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:13 am
USU78 wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:06 am
USU78 wrote:
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Can’t speak to all of those, but I at least know she hates Mormons.
And I can't speak to that. I know both of my brothers think that.
Yeah that’s the only part I’m certain of- we have the same close friend group. Definitely doubt she hates Polys.
Why would she want to work at university where a 50-60% of the students are mormons if she dislikes them so much? If i disliked a group of people that much I would not want to work at a place filled with them.
:noidea:


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 14th, 2021, 11:28 am

USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:44 am
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Being both of those and having dealings with her, I know that is not the case though. Never had that experience, nor did I ever hear it from former co-workers.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by TrueAG » January 14th, 2021, 11:41 am

That's like the President of Notre Dame hating Catholics. Same % of the student body in the dominant religion.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by ShowMeAggie » January 14th, 2021, 11:43 am

Well I'm a Mormon. AND a man (last time I checked). She still hired me. Must've been because I wasn't Polynesian?!
This is stupid. She doesn't "hate" all Mormons (tho she might hate mormonISM, and/or hate some mormons, or maybe she's just a run-of-the-mill academic that has a general disdain/distrust for organized religion in general?). Similarly, she doesn't "hate" men. not even Gloria Steinem "hates" all men. I'm sure she doesn't hate all Polynesians, either. We're not wired that way, I don't believe. We can "like" (or at least tolerate) those that we have positive experiences with, and we tend to dislike those that we have negative experiences with. " only [a$&holes] deal in absolutes" (paraphrasing, but only a bit). But this is (part of) what is wrong with our society lately: we're too quick to paint everything as black and white.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 14th, 2021, 11:56 am

ShowMeAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:43 am
Well I'm a Mormon. AND a man (last time I checked). She still hired me. Must've been because I wasn't Polynesian?!
This is stupid. She doesn't "hate" all Mormons (tho she might hate mormonISM, and/or hate some mormons, or maybe she's just a run-of-the-mill academic that has a general disdain/distrust for organized religion in general?). Similarly, she doesn't "hate" men. not even Gloria Steinem "hates" all men. I'm sure she doesn't hate all Polynesians, either. We're not wired that way, I don't believe. We can "like" (or at least tolerate) those that we have positive experiences with, and we tend to dislike those that we have negative experiences with. " only [a$&holes] deal in absolutes" (paraphrasing, but only a bit). But this is (part of) what is wrong with our society lately: we're too quick to paint everything as black and white.
She and Stan Albrecht were known to be good friends. He was/is an active member of the church and recommended her when he retired.

I really don't know/care about her views on religion, but she was always nice to me when I saw her. My father who also worked for USU had nothing but high praise for her. (He was also a former bishop and we have pioneer ancestors in every line.)

Simply not believing the faith does not make someone "anti". She has been involved in hiring dozens of people that were members, I never at all saw anything that would lead me to think she has something against men or "Mormons."
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by USU78 » January 14th, 2021, 12:11 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:28 am
USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:44 am
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Being both of those and having dealings with her, I know that is not the case though. Never had that experience, nor did I ever hear it from former co-workers.
Like I said, I have no opinion as to her beliefs/nonbeliefs/aversions/likes, but I am definitely intensely skeptical of her having been so careless as to have said anything actionable.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 14th, 2021, 12:14 pm

USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:11 pm
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:28 am
USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:44 am
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Being both of those and having dealings with her, I know that is not the case though. Never had that experience, nor did I ever hear it from former co-workers.
Like I said, I have no opinion as to her beliefs/nonbeliefs/aversions/likes, but I am definitely intensely skeptical of her having been so careless as to have said anything actionable.
No worries. Two people can have the exact same interaction with a person and have differing views. Everyone and the press are coming to conclusions, I am simply sharing my own professional/personal experiences. I really don't know what was said on the call, I guess we will find out what the investigation found on Thursday.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by sam tingey » January 14th, 2021, 12:22 pm

NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:14 pm
No worries. Two people can have the exact same interaction with a person and have differing views.
Take whatever Trump says as an example. not to be all sandboxy or anything.



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Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm

You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’d work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


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Last edited by BleedAggieBlue0 on January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 12:31 pm

slcagg wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:13 am
USU78 wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:06 am
USU78 wrote:
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Can’t speak to all of those, but I at least know she hates Mormons.
And I can't speak to that. I know both of my brothers think that.
Yeah that’s the only part I’m certain of- we have the same close friend group. Definitely doubt she hates Polys.


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What does hate Mormons mean? Just talks poorly of them? Unfortunate if she feels that way since a large percentage is Mormon.
It means she says that verbatim at dinners with her closest friends on the weekends. Not sure what the big deal is.


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Last edited by BleedAggieBlue0 on January 14th, 2021, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by CrazyAg » January 14th, 2021, 12:32 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


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Here is a questoin. If one believes in "institutional racism" how could the idea be unbelievable that there might be "institutional religious bias?" I can guarantee her political leanings as well. The powers that be at USU don't hate Mormons, especially the kids. They pity them and look down at them as brainwashed and hope to indoctrinate them away from it and toward their political leaning. And they systematically and braggedly replace old LDS Professors with like minded leaning professors.
Last edited by CrazyAg on January 14th, 2021, 12:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 12:32 pm

USU78 wrote:
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:28 am
USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:44 am
NowhereLandAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:23 am
NIrishAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 9:08 am
GeoAg wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 11:02 pm
My guess too...and like I said, you can't say that. She has to know better.
What in that statement could she have not said? Recent judicial decisions have come down on the side of saying you can NOT hire someone based solely on a protected class. The USU counsel and HR have made it clear that this is the policy that the University should follow. So Cockett saying, "we can't hire someone solely based off of [insert protected class]" is completely in line with both recent judicial decisions and direction she will have received from USU's legal and HR arms.
And since no one really knows what was said, all we have had is speculation. But that narrative you state could have been exactly what was said. I guess we will know more Friday.
Whatever was said is written on the wind, and yes, every player could easily have heard it wrong.

More importantly, both of the following could be true at the same time: NC dislikes Mormons, Men, and Polynesians and disfavors them in hiring decisions; and NC said nothing that would give rise to a discrimination in employment claim in that Zoom meeting.
Being both of those and having dealings with her, I know that is not the case though. Never had that experience, nor did I ever hear it from former co-workers.
Like I said, I have no opinion as to her beliefs/nonbeliefs/aversions/likes, but I am definitely intensely skeptical of her having been so careless as to have said anything actionable.
As am I.


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Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 12:35 pm

CrazyAg wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


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Here is a questoin. If one believes in "institutional racism" how could the idea be unbelievable that there might be "institutional religious bias?" I can guarantee her political leanings as well. The powers that be at USU don't hate Mormons, especially the kids. They pity them and look down at them as brainwashed and hope to indoctrinate them away from it and toward their political leaning as well.
Are you asking me this question? Are you saying you do believe she takes it into her everyday work life? I doubt she does. I don’t know what she considers when hiring people.


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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by CrazyAg » January 14th, 2021, 12:37 pm

Sure, like to hear if others feel there might be a chance that there might be institutional religious bias at USU. She took it with her into her everyday work life one day for sure.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by ShowMeAggie » January 14th, 2021, 12:39 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


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only you did say that. one doesn't say "I hate pizza" but mean "I like all pizza except pizza with anchovies". you asserted that "she hates Mormons"...not that "she hates SOME Mormons", or that "she hates MormonISM". Anyone with any kind of reading comprehension skills (even my 9 year old) would interpret that to mean that the "rule" is that she hates all Mormons and the exception is that there might be a few she can tolerate.

And just for the record, I didn't speak up because I thought someone was speaking ill of my religion (to each their own)...I spoke up because I feel you were accusing President Cockett unfairly
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by Aggie84025 » January 14th, 2021, 12:39 pm

CrazyAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:32 pm
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here is a questoin. If one believes in "institutional racism" how could the idea be unbelievable that there might be "institutional religious bias?" I can guarantee her political leanings as well. The powers that be at USU don't hate Mormons, especially the kids. They pity them and look down at them as brainwashed and hope to indoctrinate them away from it and toward their political leaning. And they systematically and braggedly replace old LDS Professors with like minded leaning professors.
I find it funny with professors that they say the kids are brainwashed, but then want to indoctrinate them into their belief system to follow their belief/political ways.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 12:46 pm

ShowMeAggie wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


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only you did say that. one doesn't say "I hate pizza" but mean "I like all pizza except pizza with anchovies". you asserted that "she hates Mormons"...not that "she hates SOME Mormons", or that "she hates MormonISM". Anyone with any kind of reading comprehension skills (even my 9 year old) would interpret that to mean that the "rule" is that she hates all Mormons and the exception is that there might be a few she can tolerate.

And just for the record, I didn't speak up because I thought someone was speaking ill of my religion (to each their own)...I spoke up because I feel you were accusing President Cockett unfairly
Awesome for your 9 year old, glad you feel their reading comprehension is better than my writing.
I’m not unfairly accusing her of anything. Whether you think I said that or not doesn’t matter, cause I didn’t use the word all, and it’s right there in the thread. Interpret it any way you want, doesn’t matter.


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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 12:48 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
CrazyAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:32 pm
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here is a questoin. If one believes in "institutional racism" how could the idea be unbelievable that there might be "institutional religious bias?" I can guarantee her political leanings as well. The powers that be at USU don't hate Mormons, especially the kids. They pity them and look down at them as brainwashed and hope to indoctrinate them away from it and toward their political leaning. And they systematically and braggedly replace old LDS Professors with like minded leaning professors.
I find it funny with professors that they say the kids are brainwashed, but then want to indoctrinate them into their belief system to follow their belief/political ways.
You understand the difference, don’t you?


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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by USU78 » January 14th, 2021, 1:02 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:48 pm
Aggie84025 wrote:
CrazyAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:32 pm
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


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Here is a questoin. If one believes in "institutional racism" how could the idea be unbelievable that there might be "institutional religious bias?" I can guarantee her political leanings as well. The powers that be at USU don't hate Mormons, especially the kids. They pity them and look down at them as brainwashed and hope to indoctrinate them away from it and toward their political leaning. And they systematically and braggedly replace old LDS Professors with like minded leaning professors.
I find it funny with professors that they say the kids are brainwashed, but then want to indoctrinate them into their belief system to follow their belief/political ways.
You understand the difference, don’t you?
Morally? Ethically? Professionally? Metaphysically? Arrogantly? I find the point very on point. Who gets to use the bully pulpit (that tenure, for example, affords) to sneer at others and "brainwash" them with incessent harranguing, often wholly unrelated to the limited grant of authority that tenure (for example) conveys?


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by Madmartigan » January 14th, 2021, 1:03 pm

I was talking to @Intermeddler about this, who has forgotten more about litigation than I will ever know. He and I think we will not actually find out what was said on the call, but instead only find out the result. This will be an unsolved mystery for years to come a la the mysterious disappearance of the "Aircraft carrier".
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 1:04 pm

Madmartigan wrote:I was talking to [mention]Intermeddler[/mention] about this, who has forgotten more about litigation than I will ever know. He and I think we will not actually find out what was said on the call, but instead only find out the result. This will be an unsolved mystery for years to come a la the mysterious disappearance of the "Aircraft carrier".
I agree. Seems most likely to me!


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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » January 14th, 2021, 1:05 pm

USU78 wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:48 pm
Aggie84025 wrote:
CrazyAg wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:32 pm
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 12:26 pm
You guys are weird. I didn’t say she hated all Mormons.

Relax. It’s okay if someone else hates your religion, hates some of the characteristics of its members, and speaks about it in social settings.

I wouldn’t say she hates Mormons any more than she hates other religions. Obviously living in Utah it’s reasonable that she spends more time conversing about the predominant religion more than she does other, less common religions.

As for the dumb question about why she’s work at USU and be rude to Mormon employees- it’s a job, and a good one. She’s also not some extremist that would take that into her everyday work life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here is a questoin. If one believes in "institutional racism" how could the idea be unbelievable that there might be "institutional religious bias?" I can guarantee her political leanings as well. The powers that be at USU don't hate Mormons, especially the kids. They pity them and look down at them as brainwashed and hope to indoctrinate them away from it and toward their political leaning. And they systematically and braggedly replace old LDS Professors with like minded leaning professors.
I find it funny with professors that they say the kids are brainwashed, but then want to indoctrinate them into their belief system to follow their belief/political ways.
You understand the difference, don’t you?
Morally? Ethically? Professionally? Metaphysically? Arrogantly? I find the point very on point. Who gets to use the bully pulpit (that tenure, for example, affords) to sneer at others and "brainwash" them with incessent harranguing, often wholly unrelated to the limited grant of authority that tenure (for example) conveys?
Hey I hate the way universities do it as well. It’s terrible. Obviously age is the difference I’m referring to. Not exactly on point.


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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 14th, 2021, 1:06 pm

You guys are speaking in absolutes. First of all there are many members of the pre-dominant faith in various capacities at USU. She is not one of them, but others are. Some professors undoubtedly feel "pity" while others are bishops etc of the student wards. There is not some plot to make USU a place where religious students or faculty can't be.

What she alledgely says in a private conversation really doesn't mean much to me. After my employment ended, she offered to give me references, help out, and even let me take a group on a tour of her lab a few years later. She knew quite well what religion I was, but we never spoke about it.

Others have had different experiences, so be it. I still hold her in high regard and will continue to do so.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by inconspicuous » January 14th, 2021, 1:12 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:41 am
We'll find out.

Given what we know now, Occam's razor suggests that between the two options (1. A 30 year veteran of the very politically correct university system said something beyond the pale regarding hiring, or 2. Several 20-something football players were emotionally charged over a call regarding a coach they love and heard something they didn't like and took it out of context) the simplest explanation is number 2.
I have a hard time reading this and not think that this is sarcasm.
what I derive objectively is:
Because the Football players are 20 something university students working on their higher education degrees, they are not able to listen critically and come to a plausible conclusion of what was said.
Especially since a 30 year veteran without a prior public misstep at the University is the person in question.

As a former student-athlete at USU I find it remarkable how the "players" are being characterized by some posters on this board (not a personal attack to the poster here but more in genera). Sickening.
I continue to think that even if that is your view point and you truly believe it, how can you discount that Cockett as the professional adult leader in the room created such a terrible situation for herself and the university.

I think with so many things going on in this country we should take a moment and reflect on the things we say and how we say them. This matters and if Cockett would have done that maybe this would not have happened.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » January 14th, 2021, 1:26 pm

I've said I hate Mormons before. I am a Mormon as well. But to be fair I've said I hate almost everyone and everything at some point. The glaring exception being Sam Merrill.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by rAggie » January 14th, 2021, 1:31 pm

There's a lot of nonsense in this thread. Noelle Cockett doesn't hate Mormons. She might think religion doesn't belong in the workplace/academic setting and lament the extent to which religion bleeds into every day life in Utah, but to say "she hates Mormons" is a patently ridiculous statement.

If you are a member of the pre-dominant faith -- and this perhaps could be said for any area where one is in the dominant majority of any social group -- please keep in mind that things you perceive as just part of every day life can be quite irritating, offensive, and in some cases oppressive to people who aren't like you. It bugs me tremendously that 86 percent of Utah lawmakers are Mormon while 65 percent of the population is Mormon -- but that doesn't mean I hate Mormons.

I know from my friends who are professors that they are constantly dealing with Mormon students who feel they're anti-Mormon and non-Mormon students who feel they are catering too much toward Mormons when in reality, most faculty probably just wish students would check their religion at the door and come in and learn whatever subject is being taught. Let religion be a personal thing, gather on Sunday or daily or whatever you want in your place of worship and honor your beliefs, and leave it be when you're out in the world interacting with other people of diverse backgrounds and beliefs. No one cares.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by USU78 » January 14th, 2021, 1:36 pm

inconspicuous wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:12 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:41 am
We'll find out.

Given what we know now, Occam's razor suggests that between the two options (1. A 30 year veteran of the very politically correct university system said something beyond the pale regarding hiring, or 2. Several 20-something football players were emotionally charged over a call regarding a coach they love and heard something they didn't like and took it out of context) the simplest explanation is number 2.
I have a hard time reading this and not think that this is sarcasm.
what I derive objectively is:
Because the Football players are 20 something university students working on their higher education degrees, they are not able to listen critically and come to a plausible conclusion of what was said.
Especially since a 30 year veteran without a prior public misstep at the University is the person in question.

As a former student-athlete at USU I find it remarkable how the "players" are being characterized by some posters on this board (not a personal attack to the poster here but more in genera). Sickening.
I continue to think that even if that is your view point and you truly believe it, how can you discount that Cockett as the professional adult leader in the room created such a terrible situation for herself and the university.

I think with so many things going on in this country we should take a moment and reflect on the things we say and how we say them. This matters and if Cockett would have done that maybe this would not have happened.
When one looks back at the idiocy one engaged in, believed, was convinced of, accepted without equivocation because of who was speaking, bought despite all evidence to the contrary, married, didn't marry, said, believed one heard when one didn't, remembered exactly -- exactly wrong, and lost every time playing "telephone," it's easy to see how 20+ guys could get it exactly wrong. We've all been there. It's not a question of judging individuals. It's recognizing the human condition.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by cval » January 14th, 2021, 1:54 pm

This thread has gotten out of hand, but I will add one comment.

When I took early retirement to serve an LDS Mission with my wife, both she and her husband John went out of their way to congratulate me, thank me for my contributions, and wish me well in my church service. They knew exactly where I was going and what I would be doing, and were extremely complimentary. I guess it could have all been an act, but it seemed pretty personal and sincere to me.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by MWCFAN12 » January 14th, 2021, 1:56 pm

TrueAG wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 11:41 am
That's like the President of Notre Dame hating Catholics. Same % of the student body in the dominant religion.
It is nothing at all like Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a private univeristy. And be such they hire who and how they like. They can have rule like " must me catholic" or must be a Priest. Father Jenkins has been there for 16 years and is elected by the BOT. Our process at USU is nothing like that. Or as byu head football not only must be mormon but must be able to go to the temple.

This is nothing like that.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by Blue Sage » January 14th, 2021, 2:05 pm

Real simple. If the claims that our Footballs teams leadership said are true, It’s best that she step down. If she did not she should stay. If she stays she should render a comment where she makes it clear that bigotry and racism have no place at U-State. At that point we should all move on.



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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by inconspicuous » January 14th, 2021, 2:16 pm

USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:36 pm
When one looks back at the idiocy one engaged in, believed, was convinced of, accepted without equivocation because of who was speaking, bought despite all evidence to the contrary, married, didn't marry, said, believed one heard when one didn't, remembered exactly -- exactly wrong, and lost every time playing "telephone," it's easy to see how 20+ guys could get it exactly wrong. We've all been there. It's not a question of judging individuals. It's recognizing the human condition.
I am not saying that I cannot see how they get it wrong, but you really think this counts for all 20+ somethings because you are looking back at the things you did in your past?
To me all 20 somethings are rather to get it right than one 50+ something, not saying that happened here just believe for whatever reason people have a hard time to take the players word because they cannot picture that they are telling the truth.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by JSHarvey » January 14th, 2021, 2:25 pm

inconspicuous wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 2:16 pm
USU78 wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:36 pm
When one looks back at the idiocy one engaged in, believed, was convinced of, accepted without equivocation because of who was speaking, bought despite all evidence to the contrary, married, didn't marry, said, believed one heard when one didn't, remembered exactly -- exactly wrong, and lost every time playing "telephone," it's easy to see how 20+ guys could get it exactly wrong. We've all been there. It's not a question of judging individuals. It's recognizing the human condition.
I am not saying that I cannot see how they get it wrong, but you really think this counts for all 20+ somethings because you are looking back at the things you did in your past?
To me all 20 somethings are rather to get it right than one 50+ something, not saying that happened here just believe for whatever reason people have a hard time to take the players word because they cannot picture that they are telling the truth.
I don't believe the "players" got it correct because:
1. Very few of them were actually on the call,
2. It was several days before "the players" realized a terrible thing had been said,
3. It took the concerted efforts of *subset* of those on the call to get the team upset,
4. The story changed every time it was told, and
5. It is inconsistent with essentially everything we know about President Cockett.

All that said I may well be wrong, looking forward to the announcement tomorrow and MOVING ON!

Go Aggies.
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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by 3rdGenAggie » January 14th, 2021, 2:38 pm

inconspicuous wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:12 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 10:41 am
We'll find out.

Given what we know now, Occam's razor suggests that between the two options (1. A 30 year veteran of the very politically correct university system said something beyond the pale regarding hiring, or 2. Several 20-something football players were emotionally charged over a call regarding a coach they love and heard something they didn't like and took it out of context) the simplest explanation is number 2.
I have a hard time reading this and not think that this is sarcasm.
what I derive objectively is:
Because the Football players are 20 something university students working on their higher education degrees, they are not able to listen critically and come to a plausible conclusion of what was said.
Especially since a 30 year veteran without a prior public misstep at the University is the person in question.

As a former student-athlete at USU I find it remarkable how the "players" are being characterized by some posters on this board (not a personal attack to the poster here but more in genera). Sickening.
I continue to think that even if that is your view point and you truly believe it, how can you discount that Cockett as the professional adult leader in the room created such a terrible situation for herself and the university.

I think with so many things going on in this country we should take a moment and reflect on the things we say and how we say them. This matters and if Cockett would have done that maybe this would not have happened.
I'm just saying what I think is most likely. I fully admit I could be wrong. I was a different person when I was 20 than I am today and I handled things differently then.


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Re: Verdict on Cockett to be released Friday

Post by ViAggie » January 14th, 2021, 2:44 pm

Like I said from day one, I'll reserve judgement. In my dealings with her, I've found her to be a good person with a good heart who wants nothing but the best for the University. Lets see what comes out of this before slinging more arrows.
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