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Do we have enough data points to divine a pattern on UniPrez hires?Empire of Dirt wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 8:45 amIf president at the U keeps her job after the Lauren McKlusky (I can't express myself without swearing) show (holy hell did you see the Dateline on that) I can't understand why we would even talk about Dr Cockett listing hers.
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The founding articles for the school, the Lund Act. state that the school is to be non-secular How you do that in Utah has always been a challenge. In any case it shouldn't be a punishment.
One is a protected class.El Sapo wrote:Just for kicks. Who would have the better case for discrimination?
Cockette a non LDS person who is fired for discriminatory remarks about an LDS FB coach.
Frank an LDS who claims discrimination in the hiring process against him by the school because he is LDS
There is probably a much better way to state it, but you get my drift. Discrimination against a Mormon in Utah? Or, discrimination against a non-Mormon in Utah?
Well, that isn't exactly what I said.inconspicuous wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 8:32 amAnd because of that one interaction you have with her all the players on the call must be liars, have an agenda, or must simply not be smart enough to read into the context she was trying to convey.Sl7vk wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 9:44 pmYeah. Maybe so.trevordude wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 9:21 pmI think Noelle Cockett is a fine person, but I do not think she has much knowledge on university sports. That's not necessarily a bad thing, she just has to find good people to trust with that area.
4 or so years ago at the Arizona bowl the Aggies lost to the other Aggies, there was a little pep rally a few days before the game. University and bowl officials were taking turns saying peppy things on stage between the school bands playing. When Noelle's turn came up, she excitedly said she wanted to make the Arizona bowl an annual event for USU.
Not a terrible statement, but it just shows a bit of disconnect on how things work in D1 football.
I met her at the Frisco bowl pre party and she was delightful. My 10 year couldn’t believe he got to talk to the President of USU.
She was a lovely person.
Got it!
The answer is Frank. By a lot. In your scenario, Cockett is being fired for her actions, not based on being a member of a protected class.El Sapo wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 10:31 amJust for kicks. Who would have the better case for discrimination?
Cockette a non LDS person who is fired for discriminatory remarks about an LDS FB coach.
Frank an LDS who claims discrimination in the hiring process against him by the school because he is LDS
There is probably a much better way to state it, but you get my drift. Discrimination against a Mormon in Utah? Or, discrimination against a non-Mormon in Utah?
Yea, the players said religion, now Frank's attorney says race. Those are both discrimination qualifiers.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 10:59 amThe answer is Frank. By a lot. In your scenario, Cockett is being fired for her actions, not based on being a member of a protected class.El Sapo wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 10:31 amJust for kicks. Who would have the better case for discrimination?
Cockette a non LDS person who is fired for discriminatory remarks about an LDS FB coach.
Frank an LDS who claims discrimination in the hiring process against him by the school because he is LDS
There is probably a much better way to state it, but you get my drift. Discrimination against a Mormon in Utah? Or, discrimination against a non-Mormon in Utah?
There’s also a reason Frank’s statement beat the reader over the head with the fact that he is Polynesian. The race angle is a much stronger angle than being discriminated against for being Mormon in Utah.
Or Chris Hill surviving the swimming coach scandal back in 2012-2013. That should have sunk him and possibly the university president.Empire of Dirt wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 8:45 amIf president at the U keeps her job after the Lauren McKlusky (I can't express myself without swearing) show (holy hell did you see the Dateline on that) I can't understand why we would even talk about Dr Cockett listing hers.
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NSFW: Listen if you dareUSU78 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:07 pmNot complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
Yeah, basically the administration was trying to make the program too player-centric and it bit them right in the butt.oleblu111 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 11:36 amThe truth is this was a self inflected wound, why was a school president needed for a conversation about hiring a new football coach? I guess the A.D. could not do that on his own perhaps Johnny was not trusted by the kids.. Why did the A.D. say that Frank was going thru a audition for the job when he was not qualified or wanted for the gig ?
The failure at the U of U over the Mc Klusky murder was a failure of University law enforcement. We had our own with the Torry Green serial rapist problem, 15 rapes do not equal a murder but both a horrific crimes. neither were handled well.
Well, they are the ones who make plays and win games.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 11:59 amYeah, basically the administration was trying to make the program too player-centric and it bit them right in the butt.oleblu111 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 11:36 amThe truth is this was a self inflected wound, why was a school president needed for a conversation about hiring a new football coach? I guess the A.D. could not do that on his own perhaps Johnny was not trusted by the kids.. Why did the A.D. say that Frank was going thru a audition for the job when he was not qualified or wanted for the gig ?
The failure at the U of U over the Mc Klusky murder was a failure of University law enforcement. We had our own with the Torry Green serial rapist problem, 15 rapes do not equal a murder but both a horrific crimes. neither were handled well.
I disagree. I'm white, and there is absolutely no place for a white person to use the N word at USU or any other university. White people used to enslave blacks, and using the word is symbolic of racism that African Americans have endured. The word, if said by a white person, comes with centuries of stigma, and can induce fear and anxiety for our black brothers and sisters. Blacks are working to redefine themselves within American culture, and they should have every right to choose how the word should and shouldn't be used.USU78 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:07 pmNot complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
Woah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
Haha if you think THAT'S something you should see what he says in the Sandbox sometimes!BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:40 pmWoah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
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BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:40 pmWoah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
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travelingagg wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:29 pmI disagree. I'm white, and there is absolutely no place for a white person to use the N word at USU or any other university. White people used to enslave blacks, and using the word is symbolic of racism that African Americans have endured. The word, if said by a white person, comes with centuries of stigma, and can induce fear and anxiety for our black brothers and sisters. Blacks are working to redefine themselves within American culture, and they should have every right to choose how the word should and shouldn't be used.USU78 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:07 pmNot complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
USU's mission is "to be one of the nation's premier student-centered land-grant and space-grant universities by fostering the principle that academics come first, by cultivating diversity of thought and culture, and by serving the public through learning, discovery, and engagement."
Potential players, their families, and others watch our team, our forums, and other interactions. Let's foster an environment where all athletes feel welcome. Athletes and athletes' families who are Black, Polynesian, Vietnamese, white, or other race/ethnicities should feel completely safe being at (or sending their child to) USU. And that sense of safety begins with a zero tolerance policy for racism.
Let's not tolerate bigotry of language, or religion (or lack of religion), of race, or of anything that makes us beautiful and unique.
Come on, Aggies. We've got this.
So did he merely state that it’s the case, or did he call it stupid?3rdGenAggie wrote:BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:40 pmWoah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
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What's untrue about what he said?
It's a disgusting word, but you have to admit that culturally it is absolutely fine for a black person to say it whenever they want and it's never, ever, under any imaginable circumstances ok for a white person to say it.
I understand why that's the case and it's fine, believe me. I have absolutely no interest in ever using that word or in telling black people they can't. Merely pointing out the fact that it's completely fine for one race to use that word and not another isn't racist.
Also, that fact is extremely relevant to the case involving the trainer.
Believing it is stupid that a word is ok for one race and not another is not necessarily an unreasonable belief.BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 5:49 pmSo did he merely state that it’s the case, or did he call it stupid?3rdGenAggie wrote:BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:40 pmWoah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
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What's untrue about what he said?
It's a disgusting word, but you have to admit that culturally it is absolutely fine for a black person to say it whenever they want and it's never, ever, under any imaginable circumstances ok for a white person to say it.
I understand why that's the case and it's fine, believe me. I have absolutely no interest in ever using that word or in telling black people they can't. Merely pointing out the fact that it's completely fine for one race to use that word and not another isn't racist.
Also, that fact is extremely relevant to the case involving the trainer.
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Yeah, that’s fine if you don’t think it’s wrong to say that it’s stupid. I absolutely do.3rdGenAggie wrote:Believing it is stupid that a word is ok for one race and not another is not necessarily an unreasonable belief.BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 5:49 pmSo did he merely state that it’s the case, or did he call it stupid?3rdGenAggie wrote:BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:40 pmWoah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
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What's untrue about what he said?
It's a disgusting word, but you have to admit that culturally it is absolutely fine for a black person to say it whenever they want and it's never, ever, under any imaginable circumstances ok for a white person to say it.
I understand why that's the case and it's fine, believe me. I have absolutely no interest in ever using that word or in telling black people they can't. Merely pointing out the fact that it's completely fine for one race to use that word and not another isn't racist.
Also, that fact is extremely relevant to the case involving the trainer.
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It would be unreasonable to "wish" he could also say it, but to "wish" that it was taboo for everyone would be reasonable.
All IMO of course.
The entire case stemmed from Devon Anderson's girlfriend saying that he was told by Bair to "get back in line N*****." That's a quote. Whether it happened or not, I don't know, but it wasn't just some slur.Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 5:39 pmI don’t like using that word and I don’t like hearing it. It’s not always used as a term of endearment either. Although it’s not generally used in the black community with the same vitriol that it was during Jim Crow.
Many people in the black community (especially the older generations) don’t like the word either. It’s not a monolith, it’s a community filled with independent thinking people.
What really gets me is sometimes people complain about the use of the word by the black community - but it seems they’re more upset they “can’t” use the word more than they are that some people do use the word.
I’m also unsure why we are discussing the word. If Cockett used that word she’d have been gone before the end of that night.
The equipment manager used a “slur” I didn’t hear that it was the n-word. I feel like had he used that word it would have been known. Maybe not. It could have been boy and it could have been in a less offensive context.
Either way don’t conceal information and force me to speculate.
So, for the lawyers out there, how does an independent investigation figure out what happened if everyone is lawyered up and won’t talk?
I didn’t know that. That’s why I said I didn’t hear it. That would certainly be worthy of firing. Did he deny it?stang wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 6:07 pmThe entire case stemmed from Devon Anderson's girlfriend saying that he was told by Bair to "get back in line N*****." That's a quote. Whether it happened or not, I don't know, but it wasn't just some slur.Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 5:39 pmI don’t like using that word and I don’t like hearing it. It’s not always used as a term of endearment either. Although it’s not generally used in the black community with the same vitriol that it was during Jim Crow.
Many people in the black community (especially the older generations) don’t like the word either. It’s not a monolith, it’s a community filled with independent thinking people.
What really gets me is sometimes people complain about the use of the word by the black community - but it seems they’re more upset they “can’t” use the word more than they are that some people do use the word.
I’m also unsure why we are discussing the word. If Cockett used that word she’d have been gone before the end of that night.
The equipment manager used a “slur” I didn’t hear that it was the n-word. I feel like had he used that word it would have been known. Maybe not. It could have been boy and it could have been in a less offensive context.
Either way don’t conceal information and force me to speculate.
Yes, but in your scenario, Cockett isn’t getting fired because she is female or because she isn’t Mormon. You can fire a woman. You just can’t fire someone BECAUSE they are a woman.El Sapo wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 11:20 amYea, the players said religion, now Frank's attorney says race. Those are both discrimination qualifiers.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 10:59 amThe answer is Frank. By a lot. In your scenario, Cockett is being fired for her actions, not based on being a member of a protected class.El Sapo wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 10:31 amJust for kicks. Who would have the better case for discrimination?
Cockette a non LDS person who is fired for discriminatory remarks about an LDS FB coach.
Frank an LDS who claims discrimination in the hiring process against him by the school because he is LDS
There is probably a much better way to state it, but you get my drift. Discrimination against a Mormon in Utah? Or, discrimination against a non-Mormon in Utah?
There’s also a reason Frank’s statement beat the reader over the head with the fact that he is Polynesian. The race angle is a much stronger angle than being discriminated against for being Mormon in Utah.
So, I'll make the argument that Cockett is also a protected class. A minority religion (in Utah). Also, protected class, (sex) female school president.
Consider LDS is predominant in Utah. And the racial makeup of the team? Poly is (probably?) over represented in our FB program vs the population of Utah. Seems like it will be hard to prove discrimination against those classes in the USU FB program.
Where and when I grew up, nobody but nobody used it. You were an uncouth ignoramus barbarian if you did.BleedAggieBlue0 wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 4:40 pmWoah. That’s quite the comment!USU78 wrote:Not complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
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I don't think it's stupid that I, as a white guy, can't use the "N" word. This is a word that was the last word that countless thousands of Black persons heard before they were murdered. If groups of minorities use the word and flip it as a form of empowerment, it is not my place to tell anyone that it is stupid.USU78 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:07 pmNot complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
It's stupid because it's moral relativism, and moral relativism is stupid. What is another example of ethics that change dependent on the skin color of the person doing the action? Am I allowed to steal because I'm brown?sockpuppet wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 7:34 pmI don't think it's stupid that I, as a white guy, can't use the "N" word. This is a word that was the last word that countless thousands of Black persons heard before they were murdered. If groups of minorities use the word and flip it as a form of empowerment, it is not my place to tell anyone that it is stupid.USU78 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:07 pmNot complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
I can't recall where, left coast comes to mind, but apparently the "poverty defense" may soon be a thing and allow a person to get off on charges of theft, assault, or drug use. Seems to me wrong should be wrong no matter who's doing it.Imakeitrain wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 11:24 pmIt's stupid because it's moral relativism, and moral relativism is stupid. What is another example of ethics that change dependent on the skin color of the person doing the action? Am I allowed to steal because I'm brown?sockpuppet wrote: ↑December 18th, 2020, 7:34 pmI don't think it's stupid that I, as a white guy, can't use the "N" word. This is a word that was the last word that countless thousands of Black persons heard before they were murdered. If groups of minorities use the word and flip it as a form of empowerment, it is not my place to tell anyone that it is stupid.USU78 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:07 pmNot complicated. Black guys can use the "N" word. White guys can't.Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 17th, 2020, 7:05 pmWhat was the deal with the equipment manager situation? When did this occurr i dont rwmenber hearing this prior to this situation.
It's stupid, but them's the rules, and a benign intent is irrelevant.
A moral question is answered by acting in ways that you'd "will it to become a universal law" .
Maybe it's wrong for anyone to drop N bombs. But that's just me. If you think the n-bomb is acceptable that's on you.