Gary or Hartwells Fault?

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Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by AggieSox » December 15th, 2020, 9:24 am

Now that season is over and we can look back. Who do you blame for the absolute dumpster fire of a season, that got worse last week?

John Hartwell

OR

Gary

Should Hartwell left Gary alone till season end?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Sl7vk » December 15th, 2020, 9:25 am

AggieSox wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:24 am
Now that season is over and we can look back. Who do you blame for the absolute dumpster fire of a season, that got worse last week?

John Hartwell

OR

Gary

Should Hartwell left Gary alone till season end?
Can I choose Frank Maile?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by USU78 » December 15th, 2020, 9:26 am

#thanksgary
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by rAggie » December 15th, 2020, 9:33 am

Gary quit. Saying he was fired was to save face. Gary is a three time quitter.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by sammyhagar » December 15th, 2020, 9:35 am

Peel back the onion, and say Jim Laub for insisting on Gary to begin with?
I mean who hires a guy who was such a dumpster fire at Oregon state????
He quit on his coaches, quit on his team, quit on everybody,... but hey let's hire him.

very smart adults with incredible intellectual, business, emotional skills made this decision.?????????

all this being said, I know of someone who had a conversation with Gary, and he said " I would have fired me too, did you see the product that was on the field".....
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Sl7vk » December 15th, 2020, 9:38 am

I think everyone here understands that John Hartwell's hands were strung on the GA hire. I think the donor(s) in question understand that the GA hire was a mistake, and have made good on that mistake by beefing up the coordinator salary pool massively. So at the end of the day I'm thankful that they remain committed to our program, acknowledged the mistake, and now we can all move on to bigger and better things.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by LarryTheAggie » December 15th, 2020, 9:47 am

I do not think you can place blame on anyone person. Jim Laub for insisting we bring back Gary.
Hartwell for hiring him.
Scott Barnes that told Hartwell that it would work out even after what happened at OSU.
Gary for doing a poor job.
Kyle whittingham for sending us Shelley.
Other assistant coaches for letting locker room issues get out of hand.
Hartwell and maybe Cockett for not having more institutional control.
Gary for quiting (whether he was fired or quit, he quit doing his job somewhere along the line).
Hartwell and cockett for having the meeting with the players and then for handling the meeting poorly.
Hartwell for messing up the timing of the hire. Should have done it quicker or made sure it was not leaked for a few more days.
Frank for not getting control of his team.

Hair Thompson because well, he is Hair Thompson.

Chico canalas for not getting the job when we hired brent guy.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by LarryTheAggie » December 15th, 2020, 9:50 am

Sl7vk wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:38 am
I think everyone here understands that John Hartwell's hands were strung on the GA hire. I think the donor(s) in question understand that the GA hire was a mistake, and have made good on that mistake by beefing up the coordinator salary pool massively. So at the end of the day I'm thankful that they remain committed to our program, acknowledged the mistake, and now we can all move on to bigger and better things.
I think Hartwells hands were tied, but I do think he could have managed things better. Do I want him gone, absolutely not.

Maybe if we are lucky the whole thing is enough of a black eye for him that bigger schools will not come after him for a few more years.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by BLUERUFiO » December 15th, 2020, 9:56 am

LarryTheAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:50 am
Sl7vk wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:38 am
I think everyone here understands that John Hartwell's hands were strung on the GA hire. I think the donor(s) in question understand that the GA hire was a mistake, and have made good on that mistake by beefing up the coordinator salary pool massively. So at the end of the day I'm thankful that they remain committed to our program, acknowledged the mistake, and now we can all move on to bigger and better things.
I think Hartwells hands were tied, but I do think he could have managed things better. Do I want him gone, absolutely not.

Maybe if we are lucky the whole thing is enough of a black eye for him that bigger schools will not come after him for a few more years.
Hey! That's a great silver lining :-)


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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Intermeddler » December 15th, 2020, 9:59 am

Gary 100 percent.

Advocated for not having a season. Did not prepare for the season at all. The QB fiasco. Then quitting mid season.



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » December 15th, 2020, 10:13 am

sammyhagar wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:35 am
Peel back the onion, and say Jim Laub for insisting on Gary to begin with?
I mean who hires a guy who was such a dumpster fire at Oregon state????
He quit on his coaches, quit on his team, quit on everybody,... but hey let's hire him.

very smart adults with incredible intellectual, business, emotional skills made this decision.?????????

all this being said, I know of someone who had a conversation with Gary, and he said " I would have fired me too, did you see the product that was on the field".....
The Oregon State debacle was why I was against bringing back Gary. It wasn't just that he went to a p5 and failed. It was a true "dumpster fire" as you so eloquently put it in every sense of the word. Something was just off with him there and it remained off at USU.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Aglicious » December 15th, 2020, 10:43 am

Intermeddler wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:59 am
Gary 100 percent.

Advocated for not having a season. Did not prepare for the season at all. The QB fiasco. Then quitting mid season.
Agreed. This whole mess really started last season. GA walked in here and looked and acted like a man on vacation. He hired his buddies (what is left of them) to be his staff and cruised through last season largely on the shoulders of the players that were already leading the team. They underachieved as a team and the defensive unit was set up for failure with a poor scheme that didn't match the personnel we had. The coaches he had placed to lead both sides of the ball were clueless.

2020 season came and Gary was preparing for another year of paid vacation due to Covid. He seemed truly disappointed that there was going to be a season and that they would be asked to play games. He had made the changes with his assistants but he knew he hadn't put the work in to prepare his team and I think he suspected he hadn't brought in the players he needed to be competitive. In a panic he made the blunder of offering Shelley which obviously only compounded things.

In some ways I feel bad for him because I think there was a time when he really cherished his time at USU and loved Logan. At some point that moment became a great memory that he returned to often when things were going poorly in life. I think he wanted to live in that moment forever and so he thought returning to Logan would do that for him but he quickly found out USU wasn't the "little program that could" anymore and he was no longer the non-stop energy coach he once was. After keeping a home in CV and holding on to that thought or idea for so long, I imagine reality versus the memory of what he had carried around must have been devastating.

Okay, I will now remove my therapist hat.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by cval » December 15th, 2020, 11:10 am

Gary 2.0 has been a disaster that has set us back years. Everything goes back to that.



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by ViAggie » December 15th, 2020, 11:20 am

Covid-19
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by FriendofMerlin » December 15th, 2020, 5:39 pm

rAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:33 am
Gary quit. Saying he was fired was to save face. Gary is a three time quitter.
Do you have support? Or is this just an opinion?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by ineptimusprime » December 15th, 2020, 5:50 pm

I blame myself.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by bullshot » December 15th, 2020, 6:40 pm

Did Gary bring the the cheerleader to Logan from Corvallis?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Sl7vk » December 15th, 2020, 6:52 pm

bullshot wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Did Gary bring the the cheerleader to Logan from Corvallis?
I think it was the cheerleading coach to be fair.



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by cval » December 15th, 2020, 6:53 pm

What does that have to do with any of this?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by AggieUprising50 » December 15th, 2020, 7:38 pm

Who cares who’s fault it was? The season is over and the program is moving forward with Coach Anderson.

It’s time to put 2020 behind us as a fan base
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by jpswensen » December 15th, 2020, 7:46 pm

I try to be a glass half full guy. If New Anderson ends up falling in love with Cache Valley and can be like Old Andersen, all will be forgiven, right? Winning cures all ills.


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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by gomretat » December 15th, 2020, 7:51 pm

AggieUprising50 wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 7:38 pm
Who cares who’s fault it was? The season is over and the program is moving forward with Coach Anderson.

It’s time to put 2020 behind us as a fan base
Amen



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by garyismyhomeboy » December 15th, 2020, 8:12 pm

Gary Anderson quit and negotiated it to be a firing
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by GameFAQSAggie » December 15th, 2020, 11:42 pm

You could also fault Bobby Petrino for his motorcycle incident. Without that, the Wisconsin job doesn't open up and we get the young energized GA for another year. He leads us to another 11-2 season finishing ranked and with wins over Utah and USC, finally getting over the hump in the money game, along with a win over Fresno State in the conference championship, but is gone by the Vegas Bowl. Having back to back 11-2 conference championship seasons at Utah State impresses Penn State enough to hire him instead of James Franklin. He leads Penn State to good but not great seasons in 2014, 2014, and 2016 before he decides he wants out. He leaves Penn State after 2016 for the vacant Cal job. He leads Cal to a 4-8 season in 2017, and a 1-11 season in 2018 with the only win being over Idaho State and alot of blowout losses in PAC 12 play. While on the hot seat after, he gets another year at Cal cause of the poor 2018 team being young, and Jim Laub can't have him.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » December 15th, 2020, 11:54 pm

AggieUprising50 wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 7:38 pm
Who cares who’s fault it was? The season is over and the program is moving forward with Coach Anderson.

It’s time to put 2020 behind us as a fan base
A lot of people do. This was a big season in USU history for all the wrong reasons. If you don't want to ever talk about it that is your right. Many people will be talking about this season for years. So much happened this year that was unexpected from a quarterback transferring to a coach exiting, to another qb getting kicked off the team to the USU president possibly being forced out. It was the season from hell.



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by OrangeCountyAggie » December 16th, 2020, 12:56 am

LarryTheAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:47 am
I do not think you can place blame on anyone person. Jim Laub for insisting we bring back Gary.
Hartwell for hiring him.
Scott Barnes that told Hartwell that it would work out even after what happened at OSU.
Gary for doing a poor job.
Kyle whittingham for sending us Shelley.
Other assistant coaches for letting locker room issues get out of hand.
Hartwell and maybe Cockett for not having more institutional control.
Gary for quiting (whether he was fired or quit, he quit doing his job somewhere along the line).
Hartwell and cockett for having the meeting with the players and then for handling the meeting poorly.
Hartwell for messing up the timing of the hire. Should have done it quicker or made sure it was not leaked for a few more days.
Frank for not getting control of his team.

Hair Thompson because well, he is Hair Thompson.

Chico canalas for not getting the job when we hired brent guy.
Can I add Utah and BYU leaving us in the cold back in the 60's?
Or Brigham Young for not taking Jim Bridger's advice and settling in Cache Valley instead of the Salt Lake Valley?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by rAggie » December 16th, 2020, 10:07 am

FriendofMerlin wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 5:39 pm
rAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:33 am
Gary quit. Saying he was fired was to save face. Gary is a three time quitter.
Do you have support? Or is this just an opinion?
Was I in the room that Friday after the the Nevada game when Gary met with John to quit and work out a plan to call it a firing to save face? No.

Do I know this to be the events that happened though because it's what happened? Yes.

Let me put it to you this way: Do you think that Utah State, in a year with revenues severely down due to a global pandemic, could afford to hire a new coach at $1 million+ per, significantly increase the assistants pool to $2.5 million per, and pay Gary the rest of his contract?

Nah. The guy ran the same play he ran at Oregon State. "I can't do this anymore, I don't want the money, you can fire me so it doesn't look like I quit."
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by 2004AG » December 16th, 2020, 10:31 am

rAggie wrote:
FriendofMerlin wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 5:39 pm
rAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:33 am
Gary quit. Saying he was fired was to save face. Gary is a three time quitter.
Do you have support? Or is this just an opinion?
Was I in the room that Friday after the the Nevada game when Gary met with John to quit and work out a plan to call it a firing to save face? No.

Do I know this to be the events that happened though because it's what happened? Yes.

Let me put it to you this way: Do you think that Utah State, in a year with revenues severely down due to a global pandemic, could afford to hire a new coach at $1 million+ per, significantly increase the assistants pool to $2.5 million per, and pay Gary the rest of his contract?

Nah. The guy ran the same play he ran at Oregon State. "I can't do this anymore, I don't want the money, you can fire me so it doesn't look like I quit."
I wonder why he didn’t just tell Hartwell and Laub he didn’t want the job when he was approached a couple years ago.


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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Usu0505 » December 16th, 2020, 10:36 am

OrangeCountyAggie wrote:
LarryTheAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:47 am
I do not think you can place blame on anyone person. Jim Laub for insisting we bring back Gary.
Hartwell for hiring him.
Scott Barnes that told Hartwell that it would work out even after what happened at OSU.
Gary for doing a poor job.
Kyle whittingham for sending us Shelley.
Other assistant coaches for letting locker room issues get out of hand.
Hartwell and maybe Cockett for not having more institutional control.
Gary for quiting (whether he was fired or quit, he quit doing his job somewhere along the line).
Hartwell and cockett for having the meeting with the players and then for handling the meeting poorly.
Hartwell for messing up the timing of the hire. Should have done it quicker or made sure it was not leaked for a few more days.
Frank for not getting control of his team.

Hair Thompson because well, he is Hair Thompson.

Chico canalas for not getting the job when we hired brent guy.
Can I add Utah and BYU leaving us in the cold back in the 60's?
Or Brigham Young for not taking Jim Bridger's advice and settling in Cache Valley instead of the Salt Lake Valley?
No we thank Brigham young and the sweet man above that he didn’t choose cache valley. No blame to give their only credit.


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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by USU78 » December 16th, 2020, 10:46 am

GA went after the job like a terrier chasing a mailman.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Aglicious » December 16th, 2020, 10:47 am

rAggie wrote:
December 16th, 2020, 10:07 am
FriendofMerlin wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 5:39 pm
rAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:33 am
Gary quit. Saying he was fired was to save face. Gary is a three time quitter.
Do you have support? Or is this just an opinion?
Was I in the room that Friday after the the Nevada game when Gary met with John to quit and work out a plan to call it a firing to save face? No.

Do I know this to be the events that happened though because it's what happened? Yes.

Let me put it to you this way: Do you think that Utah State, in a year with revenues severely down due to a global pandemic, could afford to hire a new coach at $1 million+ per, significantly increase the assistants pool to $2.5 million per, and pay Gary the rest of his contract?

Nah. The guy ran the same play he ran at Oregon State. "I can't do this anymore, I don't want the money, you can fire me so it doesn't look like I quit."
:lol: How often does someone ask their boss to fire them so they can save face? He would rather have the public believe and the media report that he was let go for being poor at his job (which he was) than being known as a quitter. If true, that is someone that is not in a good place mentally.

I do think GA and Hartwell had more than one discussion about where his heart and mind were at before the actual firing but I do believe it may have gone down as @rAggie describes. In Hartwell's press conference one of the questions from the media was "Did coach Andersen resign or did you choose to go a different direction?" Hartwell's reply was "No, it was ultimately my decision from a University perspective to go in a different direction." He wanted to make it clear to anyone reporting that this was not Gary's decision and Gary was not quitting the job. I'm not sure some of the SLC media picked up on this because a few of them still ran with headlines about Andersen leaving or stepping down.

There's also been speculation that Gary isn't getting a dime more from USU because he was fired "with cause". In any case, I think Gary's own struggles and self destructive behavior are ultimately what lead to his firing and those actions show that he had quit - perhaps on himself even more than the team.



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by Smokin Joe » December 16th, 2020, 10:51 am

Aglicious wrote:
December 16th, 2020, 10:47 am
rAggie wrote:
December 16th, 2020, 10:07 am
FriendofMerlin wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 5:39 pm
rAggie wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 9:33 am
Gary quit. Saying he was fired was to save face. Gary is a three time quitter.
Do you have support? Or is this just an opinion?
Was I in the room that Friday after the the Nevada game when Gary met with John to quit and work out a plan to call it a firing to save face? No.

Do I know this to be the events that happened though because it's what happened? Yes.

Let me put it to you this way: Do you think that Utah State, in a year with revenues severely down due to a global pandemic, could afford to hire a new coach at $1 million+ per, significantly increase the assistants pool to $2.5 million per, and pay Gary the rest of his contract?

Nah. The guy ran the same play he ran at Oregon State. "I can't do this anymore, I don't want the money, you can fire me so it doesn't look like I quit."
:lol: How often does someone ask their boss to fire them so they can save face? He would rather have the public believe and the media report that he was let go for being poor at his job (which he was) than being known as a quitter. If true, that is someone that is not in a good place mentally.

I do think GA and Hartwell had more than one discussion about where his heart and mind were at before the actual firing but I do believe it may have gone down as @rAggie describes. In Hartwell's press conference one of the questions from the media was "Did coach Andersen resign or did you choose to go a different direction?" Hartwell's reply was "No, it was ultimately my decision from a University perspective to go in a different direction." He wanted to make it clear to anyone reporting that this was not Gary's decision and Gary was not quitting the job. I'm not sure some of the SLC media picked up on this because a few of them still ran with headlines about Andersen leaving or stepping down.

There's also been speculation that Gary isn't getting a dime more from USU because he was fired "with cause". In any case, I think Gary's own struggles and self destructive behavior are ultimately what lead to his firing and those actions show that he had quit - perhaps on himself even more than the team.
What destructive behaviors?



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by USUaggienation » December 16th, 2020, 12:24 pm

Can we blame ourselves individually for not donating enough money, which gave Jim Laub that much control which means he’s the only one who needs to be happy? I’m not mad at Jim Laub, though. I’m mad at myself for not having enough money to have an equal voice in the discussion.



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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by dirtnsnow » December 16th, 2020, 12:28 pm

USUaggienation wrote:
December 16th, 2020, 12:24 pm
Can we blame ourselves individually for not donating enough money, which gave Jim Laub that much control which means he’s the only one who needs to be happy? I’m not mad at Jim Laub, though. I’m mad at myself for not having enough money to have an equal voice in the discussion.
In retrospect, it was a major mistake on my part to not be a billionaire.
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Re: Gary or Hartwells Fault?

Post by AggieUprising50 » December 16th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 11:54 pm
AggieUprising50 wrote:
December 15th, 2020, 7:38 pm
Who cares who’s fault it was? The season is over and the program is moving forward with Coach Anderson.

It’s time to put 2020 behind us as a fan base
A lot of people do. This was a big season in USU history for all the wrong reasons. If you don't want to ever talk about it that is your right. Many people will be talking about this season for years. So much happened this year that was unexpected from a quarterback transferring to a coach exiting, to another qb getting kicked off the team to the USU president possibly being forced out. It was the season from hell.
I'm not saying we should forget about the season. I'm saying it's time to move on. I don't see anything healthy about continuing to lay blame on people for last season's disaster. Other than the controversy with Cockett, the 2020 season is now officially a thing of the past. A new coach has been hired and there's hope for the future.

I just think we should focus on what we need going forward rather than beating the dead horse of the past.



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