Frank's Statement

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:29 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Nice straw man argument you are lining up there.

How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.

Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.

That’s enough to upset me.
...?

Frank is definitely a terrible candidate. If Frank was told about him from the players, would that not be a good reason to be offended?

What a weird post.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:33 pm

AgMac wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.

Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.

Yeah, that's what we're saying. :bangwall:
So would you say you fall under number 2 then?

Not sure what you find so dumb about his post. It makes perfect sense. Seems most of the disgruntled fans on here likely fall into one of those 3 categories.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 8:35 pm

Imakeitrain wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:22 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:16 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
I believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.

I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.

What else ya got?
What else you got? (See bold red above.)
Are you upset. If so, why?
Im upset that they are bringing allegations serious enough to warrant not playing a game without being specific enough for anyone to understand or evaluate-

Im upset that there is a sense of entitlement for a coach that was in the drivers seat, failed and is lighting a match on his way out.
Do you think Frank said or did something that would make the team do this?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bull » December 13th, 2020, 8:36 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pm
The Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.

None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.

At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
Most likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.
Hoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.
Oh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.

I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
Yep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.
Settlement money and an assistant coaching job at BYU.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:38 pm

AgMac wrote:Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
Because he’d never experienced it maybe? Or he had but not in this way? There’s endless possibilities. This happened this week...


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:44 pm

brownjeans wrote:
MrBiggle wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
Exactly.

And it MAY be deliberate! Some of you just need to stop acting as if that’s already a proven reality.

They could have misinterpreted it. They could be lying. They could be telling the exact truth. They could be minimizing it. They could have other reasons for being vague besides simply lying. Frank could be behind this whole thing. Or he might not.

It’s just incredibly stupid for some of you to pretend like your best guess is reality. The way you guys word your opinions is ridiculous. You do not know.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:46 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
PNW_Aggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Why are we litigating statements made by the players and Frank. Yet no one is litigating Cockett; is she infallible, without bias?

Also, we should be looking at the process of how the interviews and decisions were made. That’s the real issue. The players said so in their statement that they aren’t upset with Anderson as the hire but they’re upset with the process where one candidate was disqualified based on race and religion.
Frank was disqualified because he’s dramatically under qualified for the job. Reality is, he hasn’t been very good at the jobs he has had at USU. Religion and race have nothing to do with why he isn’t the HC right now. Anyone with two eyes can see that.
Yes anyone with two eyes can see that Frank should’ve never been considered for the HC position. But you still have no idea what was said during that meeting.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:48 pm

brownjeans wrote:
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
Agreed.

I think there was probably an opportunity for Frank to be a peacekeeper when the players told him they weren't going to play the game. I wish Frank would have gotten the team and President Cockett into a meeting, or in a zoom, and helped smooth things over. I haven't seen any reports of that. It seems we're beyond that now. That's disappointing.
I think it’s important to acknowledge that IF something was said like has been claimed, maybe it actually effected Frank.

Notice the IF, please.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:51 pm

2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 8:53 pm

Roy McAvoy wrote:One thing that’s relevant here that we all know to be true is that the reason Frank was not hired had nothing to do with him being Polynesian and LDS.
I agree this is almost certain imo. That’s not what the word ‘know’ means, though.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by 2004AG » December 13th, 2020, 9:12 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Again, if you don’t like reading other people’s opinions on Utah State, this probably isn’t the place for you.

Yes, it’s all just our opinions. I don’t think Frank handled the CSU game cancellation well. I think he should have taken control of the team and locker room and played the game.

I think his statement going scorched earth on the school he supposedly loves was not a good look either.

That’s my opinion. Nobody is under any obligation to agree.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm

2004AG wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Again, if you don’t like reading other people’s opinions on Utah State, this probably isn’t the place for you.

Yes, it’s all just our opinions. I don’t think Frank handled the CSU game cancellation well. I think he should have taken control of the team and locker room and played the game.

I think his statement going scorched earth on the school he supposedly loves was not a good look either.

That’s my opinion. Nobody is under any obligation to agree.


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Okay so you do admit that you have zero knowledge of what Frank’s character is?
I’m 100% acknowledging you might be right and he might be a terrible person and liar. But he also might not be.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by JSHarvey » December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by MWCFAN12 » December 13th, 2020, 9:27 pm

2004AG wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:12 pm
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Again, if you don’t like reading other people’s opinions on Utah State, this probably isn’t the place for you.

Yes, it’s all just our opinions. I don’t think Frank handled the CSU game cancellation well. I think he should have taken control of the team and locker room and played the game.

I think his statement going scorched earth on the school he supposedly loves was not a good look either.

That’s my opinion. Nobody is under any obligation to agree.


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Again my opinion. Is you're an awful human being and I feel bad for anyone that is related to you.

I'm sure you also said that it was the girl's fault in the Torrey green case as well. Very few things in life are as Despicable as questioning somebody's character in a case where they've been discriminated against or in the victim of something.

You are trash
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by CaptainChaos » December 13th, 2020, 9:31 pm

JSHarvey wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
Let this be a lesson to the administration as well. The next time they will certainly think twice when they want to involve the students to have open dialogue and discussion about important decisions.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by AgMac » December 13th, 2020, 9:33 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:33 pm
AgMac wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.

Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.

Yeah, that's what we're saying. :bangwall:
So would you say you fall under number 2 then?

Not sure what you find so dumb about his post. It makes perfect sense. Seems most of the disgruntled fans on here likely fall into one of those 3 categories.


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I find his post dumb because nobody commenting here falls under #1 or #3 and it is insulting and asinine to suggest those reasons as a basis for opinions that differ from his.
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Frank's Statement

Post by 2004AG » December 13th, 2020, 9:37 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Again, if you don’t like reading other people’s opinions on Utah State, this probably isn’t the place for you.

Yes, it’s all just our opinions. I don’t think Frank handled the CSU game cancellation well. I think he should have taken control of the team and locker room and played the game.

I think his statement going scorched earth on the school he supposedly loves was not a good look either.

That’s my opinion. Nobody is under any obligation to agree.


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Okay so you do admit that you have zero knowledge of what Frank’s character is?
I’m 100% acknowledging you might be right and he might be a terrible person and liar. But he also might not be.


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Fair enough, I guess I dont mean to judge his character. He might be a really great guy but the way he handled the CSU game cancellation and the statement he released doesn’t portray him in the best light.

Is that better ?


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by USU78 » December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
MrBiggle wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
I wish I had your ability to see not malicious bullsh!t but good faith error.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm

AgMac wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:33 pm
AgMac wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.

Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.

Yeah, that's what we're saying. :bangwall:
So would you say you fall under number 2 then?

Not sure what you find so dumb about his post. It makes perfect sense. Seems most of the disgruntled fans on here likely fall into one of those 3 categories.


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I find his post dumb because nobody commenting here falls under #1 or #3 and it is insulting and asinine to suggest those reasons as a basis for opinions that differ from his.
I know of at least one board member who does believe number 3.

But I would agree that most fall in category 2.


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Last edited by BleedAggieBlue0 on December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 9:41 pm

2004AG wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Again, if you don’t like reading other people’s opinions on Utah State, this probably isn’t the place for you.

Yes, it’s all just our opinions. I don’t think Frank handled the CSU game cancellation well. I think he should have taken control of the team and locker room and played the game.

I think his statement going scorched earth on the school he supposedly loves was not a good look either.

That’s my opinion. Nobody is under any obligation to agree.


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Okay so you do admit that you have zero knowledge of what Frank’s character is?
I’m 100% acknowledging you might be right and he might be a terrible person and liar. But he also might not be.


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Fair enough, I guess I dont mean to judge his character. He might be a really great guy but the way he handled the CSU game cancellation and the statement he released doesn’t portray him in the best light.

Is that better ?


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Much better I’d say. I still think there is some room for the possibility that it did happen, and Frank was hurt when he found out. And if that were the case, it’s a little more difficult to judge his actions and his statement.

Not saying I believe that to be true, just that it is definitely a possible explanation.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm

JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by 2004AG » December 13th, 2020, 9:50 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
2004AG wrote:
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Not a good look for your own character to be making judgements about a situation you have no knowledge of. You don’t know what happened and you have no idea what anyone’s motives are.


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Again, if you don’t like reading other people’s opinions on Utah State, this probably isn’t the place for you.

Yes, it’s all just our opinions. I don’t think Frank handled the CSU game cancellation well. I think he should have taken control of the team and locker room and played the game.

I think his statement going scorched earth on the school he supposedly loves was not a good look either.

That’s my opinion. Nobody is under any obligation to agree.


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Okay so you do admit that you have zero knowledge of what Frank’s character is?
I’m 100% acknowledging you might be right and he might be a terrible person and liar. But he also might not be.


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Fair enough, I guess I dont mean to judge his character. He might be a really great guy but the way he handled the CSU game cancellation and the statement he released doesn’t portray him in the best light.

Is that better ?


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Much better I’d say. I still think there is some room for the possibility that it did happen, and Frank was hurt when he found out. And if that were the case, it’s a little more difficult to judge his actions and his statement.

Not saying I believe that to be true, just that it is definitely a possible explanation.


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I can see that. I agree.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Imakeitrain » December 13th, 2020, 9:54 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:35 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:22 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:16 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
I believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.

I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.

What else ya got?
What else you got? (See bold red above.)
Are you upset. If so, why?
Im upset that they are bringing allegations serious enough to warrant not playing a game without being specific enough for anyone to understand or evaluate-

Im upset that there is a sense of entitlement for a coach that was in the drivers seat, failed and is lighting a match on his way out.
Do you think Frank said or did something that would make the team do this?
I don’t know. But I do believe he didn’t do enough to ease tensions and I do not believe he knew nothing until after the team decided to boycott.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by USU78 » December 13th, 2020, 9:56 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 9:59 pm

USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
I wish I had your ability to see not malicious bullsh!t but good faith error.
To be fair, you think the worst of most everyone. And to be fair, your vocation shows you the worst of most everyone, so I think it's understandable, but a bit unforgiving.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by BleedAggieBlue0 » December 13th, 2020, 10:02 pm

USU78 wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
You know that one guy pushed it?


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by ChowderAggie » December 13th, 2020, 10:05 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:59 pm
USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
I wish I had your ability to see not malicious bullsh!t but good faith error.
To be fair, you think the worst of most everyone. And to be fair, your vocation shows you the worst of most everyone, so I think it's understandable, but a bit unforgiving.

What’s the term for prejudice against an entire group?
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by USU78 » December 13th, 2020, 10:05 pm

BleedAggieBlue0 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 10:02 pm
USU78 wrote:
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
You know that one guy pushed it?


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I'm relying on published sources for this: one guy did the poll; one guy arranged the voting.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by USUGrad01 » December 13th, 2020, 11:05 pm

USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:56 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
I absolutely agree with this assessment.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 14th, 2020, 3:14 am

USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
MrBiggle wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
I wish I had your ability to see not malicious bullsh!t but good faith error.
It’s just my opinion based upon the very limited info I have. I feel nearly certain that Cockett didn't say something to the effect that they wouldn’t hire someone because they are Mormon or Polynesian. That is based upon a substantial amount of evidence that that would be wildly outside of her demonstrated character and also because I imagine she has probably experienced discrimination firsthand during her career because of her gender.

I feel less confident about whether the reaction was innocent misunderstanding or malicious intent by those players who were actually on the call. But I give them the benefit of doubt because I don’t know any of them and I have no direct knowledge or evidence that it was malicious (only second or third or fourth-hand rumors). You may be in possession of info or sources that I don’t have that would change my mind.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by USU78 » December 14th, 2020, 6:35 am

bluegrouse wrote:
December 14th, 2020, 3:14 am
USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:38 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
MrBiggle wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
I wish I had your ability to see not malicious bullsh!t but good faith error.
It’s just my opinion based upon the very limited info I have. I feel nearly certain that Cockett didn't say something to the effect that they wouldn’t hire someone because they are Mormon or Polynesian. That is based upon a substantial amount of evidence that that would be wildly outside of her demonstrated character and also because I imagine she has probably experienced discrimination firsthand during her career because of her gender.

I feel less confident about whether the reaction was innocent misunderstanding or malicious intent by those players who were actually on the call. But I give them the benefit of doubt because I don’t know any of them and I have no direct knowledge or evidence that it was malicious (only second or third or fourth-hand rumors). You may be in possession of info or sources that I don’t have that would change my mind.
All I have access to besides what's public info is 36 years in the saddle and a fairly reliable nose. Certainly not infallible, but reliability is useful.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 14th, 2020, 6:54 am

USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:56 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
Participated in what? In actions stemming from a misunderstanding, or conspiring to invent a malicious falsehood?

Seems irresponsible to impugn all these because your nose says so... these players are using more than that in their claims against President Cockett.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by LarryTheAggie » December 14th, 2020, 7:03 am

I do not think that Cockett said anything wrong and I doubt the players are trying to be malicious.

I think the players do have a pretty strong confirmation bias working against them though. I would bet that before the meeting they felt that Frank was not getting a fair shot(discriminated against). During the meeting they were unconsciously looking for anything to confirm that frank was being discriminated against.

Then Cockett said something like "we cannot hire Maile just because he is Polynesian and LDS." And that was all the confirmation they needed.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by USU78 » December 14th, 2020, 7:11 am

brownjeans wrote:
December 14th, 2020, 6:54 am
USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:56 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
Participated in what? In actions stemming from a misunderstanding, or conspiring to invent a malicious falsehood?

Seems irresponsible to impugn all these because your nose says so... these players are using more than that in their claims against President Cockett.
5-10 guys on the leadership council participated in the video call. One guy sent out the poll to the rest of those 4-9 guys. That's how it started. Please keep up. This is public stuff. The only thing I haven't been able to find is who and how many on the council. Only one name is clear: M. S. Bond, Esq.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 14th, 2020, 7:15 am

USU78 wrote:
December 14th, 2020, 7:11 am
brownjeans wrote:
December 14th, 2020, 6:54 am
USU78 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:56 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:44 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 9:20 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
#2
So how does that work?
Because I can't see ~85 players, with different thoughts and feelings, conspiring together to unite in a conspiracy to make false claims and refuse to play their final game of the year.
Or are you saying that you think they inferred a meaning that Cockett didn't intend, and overreacted ( rather than lying)?
5-10 guys participated. One guy pushed it. The 5-10 are leadership guys. Trusted. Official. Everybody else, including McFadden, presume accuracy of perception by the 5-10. They would or should all admit that they don't know.

It's irresponsible to assert that 100+ guys know what is alleged to have happened.

I suspect one-three bad actors here and a whole lot of goeralongers.
Participated in what? In actions stemming from a misunderstanding, or conspiring to invent a malicious falsehood?

Seems irresponsible to impugn all these because your nose says so... these players are using more than that in their claims against President Cockett.
5-10 guys on the leadership council participated in the video call. One guy sent out the poll to the rest of those 4-9 guys. That's how it started. Please keep up. This is public stuff. The only thing I haven't been able to find is who and how many on the council. Only one name is clear: M. S. Bond, Esq.
Be clear - are you accusing them of action stemming from a misunderstanding, or malicious and deliberate falsehood? There's a HUGE difference.



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