Frank's Statement

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:23 pm

AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:18 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pm
AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm
Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
Because clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?
Is there a reason brownjeans posts are always modified without any indication of editing? Just curious.

To your question, it absolutely would have helped him with his upcoming claims.
Because future discrimination claims was his gambit from the start?

If you edit before another post hits the thread, the system allows the edit without notation.
I need to be better at reading what I've typed before I hit submit.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by stwinward » December 13th, 2020, 4:25 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.
You won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.
Because people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.

Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.

That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
So it's the racist bigots vs the misogynists now? Let's all calm down a bit and wait for facts.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by MrBiggle » December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by AgMac » December 13th, 2020, 4:33 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:23 pm
AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:18 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pm
AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm
Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
Because clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?
Is there a reason brownjeans posts are always modified without any indication of editing? Just curious.

To your question, it absolutely would have helped him with his upcoming claims.
Because future discrimination claims was his gambit from the start?

If you edit before another post hits the thread, the system allows the edit without notation.
I need to be better at reading what I've typed before I hit submit.
I'm tired of arguing with you. I'll DM you and be done with our exchange.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 4:39 pm

stwinward wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:25 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.
You won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.
Because people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.

Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.

That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
So it's the racist bigots vs the misogynists now? Let's all calm down a bit and wait for facts.
No! It’s neither! That’s what I’m saying.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by mcaggie1 » December 13th, 2020, 4:43 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:41 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Nice straw man argument you are lining up there.

How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.

Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.

That’s enough to upset me.
The institution that is Utah State University is not going to be ruined in any way because of this, or figuratively burned down. The football program will be fine. President Cockett is the only one who stands to lose.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm

MrBiggle wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by ChowderAggie » December 13th, 2020, 4:52 pm

“Nothing good is born from lies, and greatness isn’t what you think” (Wonder Woman).



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by PNW_Aggie » December 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm

Why are we litigating statements made by the players and Frank. Yet no one is litigating Cockett; is she infallible, without bias?

Also, we should be looking at the process of how the interviews and decisions were made. That’s the real issue. The players said so in their statement that they aren’t upset with Anderson as the hire but they’re upset with the process where one candidate was disqualified based on race and religion.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by stwinward » December 13th, 2020, 5:07 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:39 pm
stwinward wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:25 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.
You won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.
Because people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.

Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.

That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
So it's the racist bigots vs the misogynists now? Let's all calm down a bit and wait for facts.
No! It’s neither! That’s what I’m saying.
I know. Just going to show how words can be so easily twisted to mean something else that wasn't intended. Sorry to have you be the victim of my wordsmithing. :cheers:



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Sl7vk » December 13th, 2020, 5:10 pm

PNW_Aggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:01 pm
Why are we litigating statements made by the players and Frank. Yet no one is litigating Cockett; is she infallible, without bias?

Also, we should be looking at the process of how the interviews and decisions were made. That’s the real issue. The players said so in their statement that they aren’t upset with Anderson as the hire but they’re upset with the process where one candidate was disqualified based on race and religion.
Frank was disqualified because he’s dramatically under qualified for the job. Reality is, he hasn’t been very good at the jobs he has had at USU. Religion and race have nothing to do with why he isn’t the HC right now. Anyone with two eyes can see that.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
MrBiggle wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:31 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
I don’t find ulterior motives to be out of the question. I have seen it before at places of work in Cache Valley.

To answer your original question, I simply don’t trust what these athletes are saying. They have already used false information to further their justification for all this, so it’s not hard for me to not believe what is being claimed.
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 5:26 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
Agreed.

I think there was probably an opportunity for Frank to be a peacekeeper when the players told him they weren't going to play the game. I wish Frank would have gotten the team and President Cockett into a meeting, or in a zoom, and helped smooth things over. I haven't seen any reports of that. It seems we're beyond that now. That's disappointing.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Slim80 » December 13th, 2020, 6:07 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:26 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 5:16 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:46 pm
These players may be wrong, that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That I agree with completely. The most likely thing is words were said that were meant to mean one thing and they were interpreted by one or more on the call as something else and everything just spiraled out of control from there. I do believe that is most likely.
Agreed.

I think there was probably an opportunity for Frank to be a peacekeeper when the players told him they weren't going to play the game. I wish Frank would have gotten the team and President Cockett into a meeting, or in a zoom, and helped smooth things over. I haven't seen any reports of that. It seems we're beyond that now. That's disappointing.
I agree here BrownJeans. I’m most disappointed in Frank because I feel like he had the chance to show he can be a leader but didn’t. My reasoning is this, if Frank was a leader then those players would have run out onto the field Saturday and done everything in their power to kick some Ram (I can't express myself without swearing). He didn’t, they didn’t and that’s disappointing.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by MWCFAN12 » December 13th, 2020, 6:16 pm

And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by 3rdGenAggie » December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pm

ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pm
The Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.

None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.

At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
Most likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.
Hoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.
Oh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.

I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
Yep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by cbingham » December 13th, 2020, 6:24 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:00 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millenials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct acadamia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
This is my stance as well. Discrimination exists at all schools, large businesses, schools, communities etc. Frank has been an employee for a long time and has been given the job of interim head coach twice. Does discrimination exist at USU, for sure it does in some aspects. that being said, Frank was not getting the head coach job because he is not as qualified as Blake Anderson. It is not even close. I would say that part of the reason JH and Cockett wanted someone else is they wanted a new culture on the team. That culture has obviously went down the last few years and we desperately need a fresh start.
Great post... love the qualifier on discrimination before suggesting your prejudice for those below say the age of 40. I really enjoyed this post!



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by cbingham » December 13th, 2020, 6:31 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.
I'll support BrownJeans on this... looking at several experiences (this, African American history class, kneeling on fields and some others) and the majority of folks and especially those outspoken in this thread come down on the side of the establishment (stopping short of saying white although that might fit too?) and telling people to shut up. I love USU and the experience I had there but wish that that (assuming this board is representative) the USU population would be more open minded and more experienced as I think that would provide some additional empathy.

In this case its way too early and none of us have enough information to grab pitch forks for Frank or President Crockett. Let's relax and watch this play out and hope that justice is delivered.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by 2004AG » December 13th, 2020, 6:31 pm

MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by 3rdGenAggie » December 13th, 2020, 6:35 pm

I'm going to be completely honest here, even to my own detriment.

I believe myself to be an honest person. I work hard, I'm nice to people, etc.

If I had the opportunity to chase the money from a federal civil rights lawsuit (or a settlement from one) I would do it. And if you're honest with yourself, you would too. I wouldn't lie, but if there was gray area, I'd chase that money. How nice would it be to pay your house off and more at 38 years old?


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by MWCFAN12 » December 13th, 2020, 6:46 pm

2004AG wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 6:31 pm
MWCFAN12 wrote:And to think. Some you thought he was low energy and didnt have a closer or killer mentality.

Frank is a great man. A man of honor and integrity. Something very wrong has happened here to get to this point. No matter whom is at fault, some how we have fu#:ed up big time to somehow let a man of his character feel like this.
Frank is showing his true character......and it isn’t great. So glad he’s not the new head coach.


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You are damn right he is showing his character. And you are showing yours. I will take Frank all day long over a piece of s*** like you.
Last edited by MWCFAN12 on December 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by El Sapo » December 13th, 2020, 6:47 pm

Frank asked for an investigation because he doesn't have a legal case to pursue.


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 6:49 pm

cbingham wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 6:31 pm
Let's relax and watch this play out and hope that justice is delivered.
Thanks for the support, but rather than justice, can we get people express remorse and forgiveness and try to understand each other better going forward?
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by cbingham » December 13th, 2020, 6:50 pm

Well said. That is progress!



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by El Sapo » December 13th, 2020, 7:00 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pm
The Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.

None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.

At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
Most likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.
Hoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.
Oh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.

I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
Yep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.
He won't get a penny. How has the school damaged him?


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie84025 » December 13th, 2020, 7:10 pm

ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
Aggie84025 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm
BLUERUFiO wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:22 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Empire of Dirt wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:02 pm
Board Lawyers...

So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.

What does a settlement look like?

Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?

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I don’t do this type of work (I do defense side med mal and personal injury), so won’t speculate about valuation. My guess? the settlement would be for an amount within whatever the policy limits are and would come very quickly (perhaps in response to a demand letter and before a lawsuit is even filed). Any ambiguity about what happened weighs towards settlement. It seems unlikely to me the case would ever get to the point where players are being deposed.

The biggest reason is the effect of an ongoing discrimination lawsuit premised on alleged discrimination by the University president would be astronomically bad for the University and football program.
Yeah, Frank certainly has some powerful leverage. I wonder what kind of policy limits the school has for this kind of thing?
Does the university carry insurance for these wrongful type lawsuits? i mean ultimately it is the taxpayer, but I would guess you would carry insurance for these type of events.

In the private sector, you’d have an EPL policy to cover something like this. I guess I am not sure how a public university like USU insures itself against this type of risk. It’s hard to imagine that the University wouldn’t have coverage like this considering the number of employees it has.

As much as the allegations lack credibility to me personally, I wouldn’t exactly call this a wrongful or frivolous lawsuit based on what we know now. There’s just a lot of ambiguity. If I were a plaintiff’s lawyer this would seem like a great chance to get in and make quick buck on a settlement, because the University is going to have strong PR reasons to want to make this just go away.
I agree, I would imagine this will get settled out of court in fairly quick manner. The last the university and program need is to have a long drawn litigation. Time to move and be the best we can be going forward.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie84025 » December 13th, 2020, 7:16 pm

AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm
Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
This is what frustrates me the most. The players talk of discrimination and then want to go to bat for the person that has been here 10 of the last 12 years with many of those as the assistant head coach. Has there been discrimination at USU, I would say absolutely which program does not have some of it. Not saying it is right, but just the reality and we need to be better. What has Frank done to squash this discrimination and bring it to light? The players want things to be better, but then want to play for someone that has fostered some of this discrimination. That seems absurd to me.

Maile wants to be the head coach, but then is concerned about the discrimination against his polynesian culture and religion? If things are as bad as they are being portrayed why would anyone of diversity of color or religion ever want to be at USU.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Roy McAvoy » December 13th, 2020, 7:17 pm

One thing that’s relevant here that we all know to be true is that the reason Frank was not hired had nothing to do with him being Polynesian and LDS.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by ineptimusprime » December 13th, 2020, 7:21 pm

El Sapo wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:00 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pm
The Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.

None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.

At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
Most likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.
Hoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.
Oh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.

I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
Yep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.
He won't get a penny. How has the school damaged him?
If Frank proves even $1 in actual damages, I am fairly certain the school would be paying his attorneys fees.

There are also categories of damages available to a Title VII claimant aside from economic damages. And I will leave it at that. There are many reasons to think any claim would be settled pretty quickly but for nowhere near the amounts discussed.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » December 13th, 2020, 7:25 pm

Roy McAvoy wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:17 pm
One thing that’s relevant here that we all know to be true is that the reason Frank was not hired had nothing to do with him being Polynesian and LDS.
Which would make an anti-Poly or anti-Mormon comment by Cockett especially stupid. I am not a Maile fan in the slighest. He isn't a good coach and I'm glad he didn't get the job, but it doesn't mean she didn't say something stupid that came off as discriminatory in the meeting. Hopefully the specifics will come out.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by El Sapo » December 13th, 2020, 7:37 pm

ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:21 pm
El Sapo wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:00 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 6:17 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:37 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:25 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 2:21 pm
The Polynesian pipeline isn’t going anywhere. Stop overreacting.

None of the alleged comments have even been confirmed. Morgan Scalley admitted to using the N word and the Utes are still bringing in talented black athletes.

At the end of the day, memories are short and 18 year old kids just want to play football. If you think a kid with one FBS offer is going to turn down Utah State, you’re up in the night.
Most likely you are right as long as we put together the right staff. I do worry this story gets even bigger with lawsuits coming. This could look really bad for the school if it extends outside of sports media.
Hoping that the independent investigation proves that any comments made about religion or culture were misinterpreted by the players. If that happens (and I expect it will) then I’m not too worried that there will be a lawsuit. Frank and his attorneys won’t have the same resources and $$$ to keep up with the university. Without any real teeth, this would be a frivolous lawsuit to pursue.
Oh, the way this statement reads, it’s probably a safe bet there’ll be a lawsuit unless the players are completely discredited. Frank will then get some quick insurance money and USU be left trying to pick up the pieces.

I’d tell the carrier to pony up the money too unless we had something really solid to defend on. The hit to the university’s reputation from an ongoing lawsuit based on alleged discrimination is much worse than any insurance money being paid out.
Yep. Frank and his attorney know there is a near zero chance of needing to take a lawsuit to court regardless of what was said. The goal here is settlement money, nothing more, nothing less.
He won't get a penny. How has the school damaged him?
If Frank proves even $1 in actual damages, I am fairly certain the school would be paying his attorneys fees.

There are also categories of damages available to a Title VII claimant aside from economic damages. And I will leave it at that. There are many reasons to think any claim would be settled pretty quickly but for nowhere near the amounts discussed.
I can't understand how Cockett's statement to the players (if damaging) extends to Frank. Sure she was talking about Frank, but the school hiring Anderson isn't discrimination against Frank. So it's just words (worst case) and no furtherance.

I've been threatened in a similar fashion (pick me or I'll sue) and my attorney actually laughed at my concern.

When this is ova, I think the players will be the one's getting workplace discrimination training


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by CaptainChaos » December 13th, 2020, 7:41 pm

Wouldn’t someone have to speculate that Frank has been a problem and caused division even with Gary’s hiring... could it be that this has been a serious problem with Gary too?


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Imakeitrain » December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
I believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.

I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.

What else ya got?


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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 8:16 pm

Imakeitrain wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
I believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.

I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.

What else ya got?
What else you got? (See bold red above.)
Are you upset. If so, why?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Imakeitrain » December 13th, 2020, 8:22 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 8:16 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 7:46 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
I believe discrimination exists at USU. So point 1 & 3 is wrong.

I can’t believe or not believe the players because there isn’t anything to look at objectively and believe or not believe.

What else ya got?
What else you got? (See bold red above.)
Are you upset. If so, why?
Im upset that they are bringing allegations serious enough to warrant not playing a game without being specific enough for anyone to understand or evaluate-

Im upset that there is a sense of entitlement for a coach that was in the drivers seat, failed and is lighting a match on his way out.
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