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Frank's Statement
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Re: Frank's Statement
Nah. Even if he could prove he would’ve been paid what BA is getting and prevail, that amount would be offset by any salary he gets or could have gotten during that contract period. His biggest obstacle will be proving he would have been hired but for the discrimination.Empire of Dirt wrote:Board Lawyers...
So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.
What does a settlement look like?
Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?
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I'm actually really smart, probably smarter than you are so if you disagree with what I have stated in this post, you are likely wrong (and dumb).
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Re: Frank's Statement
It doesn’t pass the smell test. I will 100% agree with that.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:21 pmFor me it comes down to this: I’m supposed to believe that the most inclusive, student-oriented President in my lifetime (maybe all time) got on a Zoom call with a bunch of students, some of which are likely to be Mormons and/or Polynesians, and told them that they coach they love and have called this meeting to lobby for wasn’t going to be hired because he’s Mormon and Polynesian.
I’m sorry but just doesn’t pass the smell test in any way, especially considering everything I know and have heard about Noelle Cockett. It just doesn’t.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Disliking the church and discriminating against people because of it are two very different things. I couldn’t care less if somebody doesn’t like my church as long as they treat me fairly. Hell, there are times when I don’t even like my own church and/or the culture it sometimes generates.Aggieforlife wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:17 pmMy mother in law works at the university, she also says there is a pretty large group of teachers and admin that are quite publicly outspoken about disliking the church. She didn’t say that she had any reason to believe that Cockett is part of that group, just simply that it exists. What she told me doesn’t change how I feel, if the allegations are true, good for the players, If they are false it’s very disappointing the amount of damage that has been caused. All I can say is wait and see what facts are able to come to light.WannabeAgAlum wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:05 pmI spoke to a former long time employee of USU who rubbed shoulders with USU adminstration over the years. This person indicated that there was definitely religious discrimination practiced with hiring decisions, among other things. This person is not following closely this football issue but what the players are saying happened is consistent with what this person has seen.
Personally I'm not sure what to think.
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Re: Frank's Statement
The other things to factor in is fee shifting and exemplary damages. I again don’t do this type of work, but this definitely seems like an area where there’d at least be a fee shifting statute that requires a losing defendant to pay the plaintiff’s attorney fees.JonnyCienPesos wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:25 pmNah. Even if he could prove he would’ve been paid what BA is getting and prevail, that amount would be offset by any salary he gets or could have gotten during that contract period. His biggest obstacle will be proving he would have been hired but for the discrimination.Empire of Dirt wrote:Board Lawyers...
So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.
What does a settlement look like?
Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?
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Again, I don’t practice in this area or in Utah. Additionally caveat is that I am still mostly a baby lawyer (been out 5 years).
Last edited by ineptimusprime on December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Good luck with that.JonnyCienPesos wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:25 pmNah. Even if he could prove he would’ve been paid what BA is getting and prevail, that amount would be offset by any salary he gets or could have gotten during that contract period. His biggest obstacle will be proving he would have been hired but for the discrimination.Empire of Dirt wrote:Board Lawyers...
So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.
What does a settlement look like?
Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?
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Re: Frank's Statement
Is it just me or does this whole thing feel like a microcosm Of the presidential election!? Sorry I had to say it. I’m done with 2020!
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Re: Frank's Statement
I can agree with this. There is an attitude of intolerance in some sectors of USU, but my experience has been that unless you are trying to use it to advantage, you are pretty much left alone to do your work.
I will say, however, that I never had any hint of this from President Cockett, and that it has become less prevalent under her watch.
I will say, however, that I never had any hint of this from President Cockett, and that it has become less prevalent under her watch.
- brownjeans
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Re: Frank's Statement
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
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Re: Frank's Statement
NOT with Crockett directly. Or Hartwell. Just matched what this person has seen over the years.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:14 pmWith Cockett directly or just in instances over years? Huge difference.WannabeAgAlum wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:05 pmI spoke to a former long time employee of USU who rubbed shoulders with USU adminstration over the years. This person indicated that there was definitely religious discrimination practiced with hiring decisions, among other things. This person is not following closely this football issue but what the players are saying happened is consistent with what this person has seen.
Personally I'm not sure what to think.
This person did say Cockett does not instigate or participate affirmatively in that type of behavior, but also does nothing to stop it (from this person's perspective). Had nothing to say about Hartwell.
One example was hearing about interviewers joking about checking for garment lines on interviewees.
Hard to know what was harmless joking and what was serious.
Still don't know what to think.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Nice straw man argument you are lining up there.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.
Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.
That’s enough to upset me.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millenials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct acadamia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Does the university carry insurance for these wrongful type lawsuits? i mean ultimately it is the taxpayer, but I would guess you would carry insurance for these type of events.BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:22 pmYeah, Frank certainly has some powerful leverage. I wonder what kind of policy limits the school has for this kind of thing?ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:19 pmI don’t do this type of work (I do defense side med mal and personal injury), so won’t speculate about valuation. My guess? the settlement would be for an amount within whatever the policy limits are and would come very quickly (perhaps in response to a demand letter and before a lawsuit is even filed). Any ambiguity about what happened weighs towards settlement. It seems unlikely to me the case would ever get to the point where players are being deposed.Empire of Dirt wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:02 pmBoard Lawyers...
So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.
What does a settlement look like?
Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?
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The biggest reason is the effect of an ongoing discrimination lawsuit premised on alleged discrimination by the University president would be astronomically bad for the University and football program.
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Re: Frank's Statement
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.
Yeah, that's what we're saying.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I don't believe President Cockett said anything close to what is being alleged. Period.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
1. Irrelevant to this situation unless there is evidence of Cockett herself discriminating
2. In order of probability,
A. The players took something to mean what if didn't and there was some sort of miscommunication.
.
.
.
C. Players upset that their guy didn't get the job told the rest of the team that they were told in the meeting that Frank wouldn't be hired because he's Mormon and Polynesian which inflamed everyone and they decided to do something dramatic to lodge their protest.
.
.
.
.
Z. Cockett went into a meeting with students, some of whom were likely to be Mormons or Polynesians, and told them the person that they all love wouldn't be hired because he's a Mormon and/or Polynesian.
3. I do not believe discrimination exists in this instance and that's the only thing we're discussing here.
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Re: Frank's Statement
USU is a place of higher learning. there for sure are going be professors and administrators that dislike religion. That being said having graduated from the school of business and agriculture i did not sense any outwardly discrimination against my religion. Quite frankly I don't care if my professors support my religion so long as they are fair and equitable and don't outwardly bash my religion in class.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:30 pmDisliking the church and discriminating against people because of it are two very different things. I couldn’t care less if somebody doesn’t like my church as long as they treat me fairly. Hell, there are times when I don’t even like my own church and/or the culture it sometimes generates.Aggieforlife wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:17 pmMy mother in law works at the university, she also says there is a pretty large group of teachers and admin that are quite publicly outspoken about disliking the church. She didn’t say that she had any reason to believe that Cockett is part of that group, just simply that it exists. What she told me doesn’t change how I feel, if the allegations are true, good for the players, If they are false it’s very disappointing the amount of damage that has been caused. All I can say is wait and see what facts are able to come to light.WannabeAgAlum wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:05 pmI spoke to a former long time employee of USU who rubbed shoulders with USU adminstration over the years. This person indicated that there was definitely religious discrimination practiced with hiring decisions, among other things. This person is not following closely this football issue but what the players are saying happened is consistent with what this person has seen.
Personally I'm not sure what to think.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I'm not staging an argument. I honestly want to know why people are upset. If you don't like my wording, or the choices. Please, feel free to express why you are upset in your own words.Sl7vk wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:41 pmNice straw man argument you are lining up there.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.
Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.
That’s enough to upset me.
Unlike many on this board, I don't see discourse here as some kind of contest (how dumb is that anyway?), rather a hope to understand others and learn more about people.
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Re: Frank's Statement
This is my stance as well. Discrimination exists at all schools, large businesses, schools, communities etc. Frank has been an employee for a long time and has been given the job of interim head coach twice. Does discrimination exist at USU, for sure it does in some aspects. that being said, Frank was not getting the head coach job because he is not as qualified as Blake Anderson. It is not even close. I would say that part of the reason JH and Cockett wanted someone else is they wanted a new culture on the team. That culture has obviously went down the last few years and we desperately need a fresh start.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millenials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct acadamia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
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Re: Frank's Statement
I think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Last edited by brownjeans on December 13th, 2020, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frank's Statement
So what are you saying? Why are you upset by the way the players feel?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:50 pmThis is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.
Yeah, that's what we're saying.
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Re: Frank's Statement
This is such nonsense. I can't think of a place where the Polynesian culture has been embraced more than at Utah State (and Utah and BYU). These schools have been recruiting and embracing that culture for years when everyone else dismissed and ignored it.
Last edited by Yossarian on December 13th, 2020, 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Yeah, for the most part this board is taking Cockett's side. I wish she could just apologize which she sort of has done and we could move on, but 3/4 of the players had a problem with what she said and they deserve to not just be dismissed either. Hopefully it will come out exactly what went down.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Sorry if this is off topic. I've been in IT for 20+ years. I really find it hard to believe there isn't a recording of this (even if ZOOM says there isn't). In a day where accusations like this can destroy people and company's. I know there is a copy. Will it see the light of day?
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Re: Frank's Statement
True, that is why it would be an idiotic statement if Cockett said what she has alleged to have said. The Polynesian pipeline is a big reason why USU started winning again.Yossarian wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:03 pmThis is such nonsense. I can't think of a place where the Polynesian culture has been embraced more than at Utah State (and Utah and BYU). These schools have been recertification and embracing that culture for years when everyone else dismissed and ignored it.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Aggie84025 wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:49 pmDoes the university carry insurance for these wrongful type lawsuits? i mean ultimately it is the taxpayer, but I would guess you would carry insurance for these type of events.BLUERUFiO wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:22 pmYeah, Frank certainly has some powerful leverage. I wonder what kind of policy limits the school has for this kind of thing?ineptimusprime wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:19 pmI don’t do this type of work (I do defense side med mal and personal injury), so won’t speculate about valuation. My guess? the settlement would be for an amount within whatever the policy limits are and would come very quickly (perhaps in response to a demand letter and before a lawsuit is even filed). Any ambiguity about what happened weighs towards settlement. It seems unlikely to me the case would ever get to the point where players are being deposed.Empire of Dirt wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:02 pmBoard Lawyers...
So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.
What does a settlement look like?
Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
The biggest reason is the effect of an ongoing discrimination lawsuit premised on alleged discrimination by the University president would be astronomically bad for the University and football program.
In the private sector, you’d have an EPL policy to cover something like this. I guess I am not sure how a public university like USU insures itself against this type of risk. It’s hard to imagine that the University wouldn’t have coverage like this considering the number of employees it has.
As much as the allegations lack credibility to me personally, I wouldn’t exactly call this a wrongful or frivolous lawsuit based on what we know now. There’s just a lot of ambiguity. If I were a plaintiff’s lawyer this would seem like a great chance to get in and make quick buck on a settlement, because the University is going to have strong PR reasons to want to make this just go away.
Last edited by ineptimusprime on December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Because I feel that they're being disingenuous. That they're not really outaged at what Cockett may have said. That they are really mad because Frank wasn't hired.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:02 pmSo what are you saying? Why are you upset by the way the players feel?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:50 pmThis is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.
Yeah, that's what we're saying.
You know, the same thing we've said on this board 1000 times. I'm not sure how to more clearly state it for you.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Well, lawyers are probably involved now. They won't let Cockett apologize as another lawyer will use an apology as admission of guilt.Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:05 pmYeah, for the most part this board is taking Cockett's side. I wish she could just apologize which she sort of has done and we could move on, but 3/4 of the players had a problem with what she said and they deserve to not just be dismissed either. Hopefully it will come out exactly what went down.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
This whole thing makes me sad.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Not impressed by Frank Maile's statement at all. It's almost like he welcomed the self sabotage. I'm glad he is not going to be our coach and I hope he already been asked to clean out his office and turn in his keys.
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Re: Frank's Statement
You won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmWow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
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Re: Frank's Statement
Because clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pmNow my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
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Re: Frank's Statement
Because people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pmYou won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pmWow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pmI think all this is fair.hickaggie wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pmDiscrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pmThose of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it
Other?
My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).
Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.
That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
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Re: Frank's Statement
People have had a lot experience with Frank too.bluegrouse wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pmBecause people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.
Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.
That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
Look, no one is making this up. It's not malice, it's misunderstanding. There's a HUGE difference.
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Re: Frank's Statement
Is there a reason brownjeans posts are always modified without any indication of editing? Just curious.brownjeans wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pmBecause clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?AgMac wrote: ↑December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pmNow my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
To your question, it absolutely would have helped him with his upcoming claims.