Frank's Statement

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by JonnyCienPesos » December 13th, 2020, 3:25 pm

Empire of Dirt wrote:Board Lawyers...

So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.

What does a settlement look like?

Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?

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Nah. Even if he could prove he would’ve been paid what BA is getting and prevail, that amount would be offset by any salary he gets or could have gotten during that contract period. His biggest obstacle will be proving he would have been hired but for the discrimination.


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I'm actually really smart, probably smarter than you are so if you disagree with what I have stated in this post, you are likely wrong (and dumb).

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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by ineptimusprime » December 13th, 2020, 3:26 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:21 pm
For me it comes down to this: I’m supposed to believe that the most inclusive, student-oriented President in my lifetime (maybe all time) got on a Zoom call with a bunch of students, some of which are likely to be Mormons and/or Polynesians, and told them that they coach they love and have called this meeting to lobby for wasn’t going to be hired because he’s Mormon and Polynesian.

I’m sorry but just doesn’t pass the smell test in any way, especially considering everything I know and have heard about Noelle Cockett. It just doesn’t.
It doesn’t pass the smell test. I will 100% agree with that.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 3:30 pm

Aggieforlife wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:17 pm
WannabeAgAlum wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:05 pm
I spoke to a former long time employee of USU who rubbed shoulders with USU adminstration over the years. This person indicated that there was definitely religious discrimination practiced with hiring decisions, among other things. This person is not following closely this football issue but what the players are saying happened is consistent with what this person has seen.

Personally I'm not sure what to think.
My mother in law works at the university, she also says there is a pretty large group of teachers and admin that are quite publicly outspoken about disliking the church. She didn’t say that she had any reason to believe that Cockett is part of that group, just simply that it exists. What she told me doesn’t change how I feel, if the allegations are true, good for the players, If they are false it’s very disappointing the amount of damage that has been caused. All I can say is wait and see what facts are able to come to light.
Disliking the church and discriminating against people because of it are two very different things. I couldn’t care less if somebody doesn’t like my church as long as they treat me fairly. Hell, there are times when I don’t even like my own church and/or the culture it sometimes generates.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by ineptimusprime » December 13th, 2020, 3:30 pm

JonnyCienPesos wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:25 pm
Empire of Dirt wrote:Board Lawyers...

So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.

What does a settlement look like?

Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Nah. Even if he could prove he would’ve been paid what BA is getting and prevail, that amount would be offset by any salary he gets or could have gotten during that contract period. His biggest obstacle will be proving he would have been hired but for the discrimination.

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The other things to factor in is fee shifting and exemplary damages. I again don’t do this type of work, but this definitely seems like an area where there’d at least be a fee shifting statute that requires a losing defendant to pay the plaintiff’s attorney fees.

Again, I don’t practice in this area or in Utah. Additionally caveat is that I am still mostly a baby lawyer (been out 5 years).
Last edited by ineptimusprime on December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 3:31 pm

JonnyCienPesos wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:25 pm
Empire of Dirt wrote:Board Lawyers...

So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.

What does a settlement look like?

Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Nah. Even if he could prove he would’ve been paid what BA is getting and prevail, that amount would be offset by any salary he gets or could have gotten during that contract period. His biggest obstacle will be proving he would have been hired but for the discrimination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good luck with that.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by TrueAG » December 13th, 2020, 3:32 pm

I assume Frank has an agent? That could be where the statement is coming from?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by FL350Aggie » December 13th, 2020, 3:36 pm

Is it just me or does this whole thing feel like a microcosm Of the presidential election!? Sorry I had to say it. I’m done with 2020!
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by cval » December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm

I can agree with this. There is an attitude of intolerance in some sectors of USU, but my experience has been that unless you are trying to use it to advantage, you are pretty much left alone to do your work.

I will say, however, that I never had any hint of this from President Cockett, and that it has become less prevalent under her watch.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm

Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by WannabeAgAlum » December 13th, 2020, 3:38 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:14 pm
WannabeAgAlum wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:05 pm
I spoke to a former long time employee of USU who rubbed shoulders with USU adminstration over the years. This person indicated that there was definitely religious discrimination practiced with hiring decisions, among other things. This person is not following closely this football issue but what the players are saying happened is consistent with what this person has seen.

Personally I'm not sure what to think.
With Cockett directly or just in instances over years? Huge difference.
NOT with Crockett directly. Or Hartwell. Just matched what this person has seen over the years.

This person did say Cockett does not instigate or participate affirmatively in that type of behavior, but also does nothing to stop it (from this person's perspective). Had nothing to say about Hartwell.

One example was hearing about interviewers joking about checking for garment lines on interviewees.

Hard to know what was harmless joking and what was serious.

Still don't know what to think.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Sl7vk » December 13th, 2020, 3:41 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Nice straw man argument you are lining up there.

How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.

Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.

That’s enough to upset me.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by hickaggie » December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millenials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct acadamia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie84025 » December 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:22 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Empire of Dirt wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:02 pm
Board Lawyers...

So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.

What does a settlement look like?

Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
I don’t do this type of work (I do defense side med mal and personal injury), so won’t speculate about valuation. My guess? the settlement would be for an amount within whatever the policy limits are and would come very quickly (perhaps in response to a demand letter and before a lawsuit is even filed). Any ambiguity about what happened weighs towards settlement. It seems unlikely to me the case would ever get to the point where players are being deposed.

The biggest reason is the effect of an ongoing discrimination lawsuit premised on alleged discrimination by the University president would be astronomically bad for the University and football program.
Yeah, Frank certainly has some powerful leverage. I wonder what kind of policy limits the school has for this kind of thing?
Does the university carry insurance for these wrongful type lawsuits? i mean ultimately it is the taxpayer, but I would guess you would carry insurance for these type of events.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by AgMac » December 13th, 2020, 3:50 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.

Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.

Yeah, that's what we're saying. :bangwall:
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 3:53 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
I don't believe President Cockett said anything close to what is being alleged. Period.

1. Irrelevant to this situation unless there is evidence of Cockett herself discriminating
2. In order of probability,
A. The players took something to mean what if didn't and there was some sort of miscommunication.
.
.
.
C. Players upset that their guy didn't get the job told the rest of the team that they were told in the meeting that Frank wouldn't be hired because he's Mormon and Polynesian which inflamed everyone and they decided to do something dramatic to lodge their protest.
.
.
.
.

Z. Cockett went into a meeting with students, some of whom were likely to be Mormons or Polynesians, and told them the person that they all love wouldn't be hired because he's a Mormon and/or Polynesian.

3. I do not believe discrimination exists in this instance and that's the only thing we're discussing here.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie84025 » December 13th, 2020, 3:54 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:30 pm
Aggieforlife wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:17 pm
WannabeAgAlum wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:05 pm
I spoke to a former long time employee of USU who rubbed shoulders with USU adminstration over the years. This person indicated that there was definitely religious discrimination practiced with hiring decisions, among other things. This person is not following closely this football issue but what the players are saying happened is consistent with what this person has seen.

Personally I'm not sure what to think.
My mother in law works at the university, she also says there is a pretty large group of teachers and admin that are quite publicly outspoken about disliking the church. She didn’t say that she had any reason to believe that Cockett is part of that group, just simply that it exists. What she told me doesn’t change how I feel, if the allegations are true, good for the players, If they are false it’s very disappointing the amount of damage that has been caused. All I can say is wait and see what facts are able to come to light.
Disliking the church and discriminating against people because of it are two very different things. I couldn’t care less if somebody doesn’t like my church as long as they treat me fairly. Hell, there are times when I don’t even like my own church and/or the culture it sometimes generates.
USU is a place of higher learning. there for sure are going be professors and administrators that dislike religion. That being said having graduated from the school of business and agriculture i did not sense any outwardly discrimination against my religion. Quite frankly I don't care if my professors support my religion so long as they are fair and equitable and don't outwardly bash my religion in class.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 3:55 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:41 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Nice straw man argument you are lining up there.

How about Frank didn’t get the job because he’s terrible and we got a much better candidate regardless of race, gender and religion.

Now Frank is sour grapes because he felt entitled to the position and is trying to burn down our institution.

That’s enough to upset me.
I'm not staging an argument. I honestly want to know why people are upset. If you don't like my wording, or the choices. Please, feel free to express why you are upset in your own words.

Unlike many on this board, I don't see discourse here as some kind of contest (how dumb is that anyway?), rather a hope to understand others and learn more about people.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie84025 » December 13th, 2020, 4:00 pm

hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millenials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct acadamia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
This is my stance as well. Discrimination exists at all schools, large businesses, schools, communities etc. Frank has been an employee for a long time and has been given the job of interim head coach twice. Does discrimination exist at USU, for sure it does in some aspects. that being said, Frank was not getting the head coach job because he is not as qualified as Blake Anderson. It is not even close. I would say that part of the reason JH and Cockett wanted someone else is they wanted a new culture on the team. That culture has obviously went down the last few years and we desperately need a fresh start.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm

hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Last edited by brownjeans on December 13th, 2020, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:02 pm

AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:50 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.

Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.

Yeah, that's what we're saying. :bangwall:
So what are you saying? Why are you upset by the way the players feel?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Yossarian » December 13th, 2020, 4:03 pm

This is such nonsense. I can't think of a place where the Polynesian culture has been embraced more than at Utah State (and Utah and BYU). These schools have been recruiting and embracing that culture for years when everyone else dismissed and ignored it.
Last edited by Yossarian on December 13th, 2020, 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » December 13th, 2020, 4:05 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Yeah, for the most part this board is taking Cockett's side. I wish she could just apologize which she sort of has done and we could move on, but 3/4 of the players had a problem with what she said and they deserve to not just be dismissed either. Hopefully it will come out exactly what went down.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by aggiesdidwhat » December 13th, 2020, 4:06 pm

Sorry if this is off topic. I've been in IT for 20+ years. I really find it hard to believe there isn't a recording of this (even if ZOOM says there isn't). In a day where accusations like this can destroy people and company's. I know there is a copy. Will it see the light of day?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » December 13th, 2020, 4:07 pm

Yossarian wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:03 pm
This is such nonsense. I can't think of a place where the Polynesian culture has been embraced more than at Utah State (and Utah and BYU). These schools have been recertification and embracing that culture for years when everyone else dismissed and ignored it.
True, that is why it would be an idiotic statement if Cockett said what she has alleged to have said. The Polynesian pipeline is a big reason why USU started winning again.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by ineptimusprime » December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:49 pm
BLUERUFiO wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:22 pm
ineptimusprime wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Empire of Dirt wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:02 pm
Board Lawyers...

So, let's say that the hearsay of hearsay is correct (or at least can be somewhat substantiated.) Cockett said that she was concerned about him being from Utah and being Polynesian.

What does a settlement look like?

Anderson just signed a $5M contract. Are those the damages that Maile is looking for, a $5M settlement? More/less?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
I don’t do this type of work (I do defense side med mal and personal injury), so won’t speculate about valuation. My guess? the settlement would be for an amount within whatever the policy limits are and would come very quickly (perhaps in response to a demand letter and before a lawsuit is even filed). Any ambiguity about what happened weighs towards settlement. It seems unlikely to me the case would ever get to the point where players are being deposed.

The biggest reason is the effect of an ongoing discrimination lawsuit premised on alleged discrimination by the University president would be astronomically bad for the University and football program.
Yeah, Frank certainly has some powerful leverage. I wonder what kind of policy limits the school has for this kind of thing?
Does the university carry insurance for these wrongful type lawsuits? i mean ultimately it is the taxpayer, but I would guess you would carry insurance for these type of events.

In the private sector, you’d have an EPL policy to cover something like this. I guess I am not sure how a public university like USU insures itself against this type of risk. It’s hard to imagine that the University wouldn’t have coverage like this considering the number of employees it has.

As much as the allegations lack credibility to me personally, I wouldn’t exactly call this a wrongful or frivolous lawsuit based on what we know now. There’s just a lot of ambiguity. If I were a plaintiff’s lawyer this would seem like a great chance to get in and make quick buck on a settlement, because the University is going to have strong PR reasons to want to make this just go away.
Last edited by ineptimusprime on December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by AgMac » December 13th, 2020, 4:09 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:02 pm
AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:50 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
This is honestly the dumbest post in the history of this board.

Oh, a group of players who were lobbying for a coach that didn't get hired claim that the school president made discriminatory statements, but won't disclose exactly what she said, and you're not backing them? You must not think discrimination exists.

Yeah, that's what we're saying. :bangwall:
So what are you saying? Why are you upset by the way the players feel?
Because I feel that they're being disingenuous. That they're not really outaged at what Cockett may have said. That they are really mad because Frank wasn't hired.

You know, the same thing we've said on this board 1000 times. I'm not sure how to more clearly state it for you.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:09 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:05 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Yeah, for the most part this board is taking Cockett's side. I wish she could just apologize which she sort of has done and we could move on, but 3/4 of the players had a problem with what she said and they deserve to not just be dismissed either. Hopefully it will come out exactly what went down.
Well, lawyers are probably involved now. They won't let Cockett apologize as another lawyer will use an apology as admission of guilt.
This whole thing makes me sad.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by aggiesdotcom » December 13th, 2020, 4:11 pm

Not impressed by Frank Maile's statement at all. It's almost like he welcomed the self sabotage. I'm glad he is not going to be our coach and I hope he already been asked to clean out his office and turn in his keys.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.
You won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by AgMac » December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm

Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pm

AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm
Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
Because clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?



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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by bluegrouse » December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:12 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:08 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:01 pm
hickaggie wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 3:37 pm
Those of you that are upset, are you upset because:
1. You don't feel discrimination exists at USU
2. You don't believe the players
3. You acknowledge discrimination likely exists, but don't think anything should happen about it

Other?
Discrimination exists. Things can get misinterpreted. The players obviously heard discrimination.

My doubts start with the hearees being millennials (technically post millenials) and someone like Cockett who has navigated our the absolutely whacky and unbelievable world of political correct academia for so long would commit such a blatant error (even if she really does hate LDS polynesians).

Finally, while discrimination most definitely exists Frank did not lose the job due to bias against his religion or ethnicity. Exhibit A- He was made interim coach twice and the highest paid Assistant. Exhibit B-AFA. Exhibit C-Head to head qualifications with the job recipient.
I think all this is fair.

I think the thing that irks me about the reaction on this board, is that the overall tone is that there is no problem with discrimination, and if those who think there is would just shut up, everything would be great.
Or worse, that somehow this whole discrimination claim is without ANY substance and is simply a deliberate attempt to hurt USU for not doing what they want.
Wow. Maybe you're just projecting what you want to believe on everyone. I haven't heard a single person say anything even remotely in the neighborhood of what you just typed.
You won't see someone say that, but it's how I infer the general tone of much of this. As for the second, "or worse" statement, you don't need to look very far to see those feelings expressed almost exactly.
Because people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.

Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.

That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by brownjeans » December 13th, 2020, 4:18 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:16 pm
Because people have a lot of experience with Noelle Cockett and this is so far outside everything and anything anyone has ever experienced with her. That's why there is such a strong reaction.

Maybe the toxic masculine men participating in the violent sport of American football just can't handle a strong woman in a position of power in a man's world decide their next coach for them and decided to cancel her as a lesson to other upstart women.

That's just about as plausible to me as this accusation.
People have had a lot experience with Frank too.

Look, no one is making this up. It's not malice, it's misunderstanding. There's a HUGE difference.
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Re: Frank's Statement

Post by AgMac » December 13th, 2020, 4:18 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:14 pm
AgMac wrote:
December 13th, 2020, 4:13 pm
Now my turn for you, brownjeans. Why hasn't Frank whispered one single word of discrimination in his couple decades at USU? Why didn't Frank take any action to address the other issues the players have cited? Why did Frank want to stay and coach at a school and for a President who are so discriminatory?
Because clearly, that would have been a great help to him. Right?
Is there a reason brownjeans posts are always modified without any indication of editing? Just curious.

To your question, it absolutely would have helped him with his upcoming claims.



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