Recruiting Formula

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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by ShowMeAggie » December 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm

slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:02 pm
aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:41 am
Sl7vk wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:02 am
I think I'm one of the few that feels this way, but I think the old formula's that proved successful might not apply anymore.
The missionary program and the poly-pipeline.... not sure they are still the cornerstone's of our identity.
I think there are different ways of getting us to where we want to go now. The world has shrunk and our minds need to open up a bit... think bigger.
You've made SEVERAL fantastic points in this thread my Aggie brother. Guys the Poly pipeline is NO LONGER a secret the rest of the college football world has caught on. 10 years ago when it worked so well for the Utah teams we reaped the benefits. Now EVERYONE recruits Poly kids. EVERYONE should be recruiting the Polynesian kids. The outgoing staff ROUTINELY shot down kids from Florida that attempted to commit in order to take MUCH lower rated kids from Utah. We have to broaden our recruiting umbrella and not be so narrow minded as a fan base.
To these points look at who is getting the top Utah players even. It isn’t Utah and BYU. Recruiting has become a national focus and Utah Polynesians are no longer hidden from the top programs.
for the 2020 class, 6 of the top 10 chose Utah (although 1 of these is a basketball commit?), 1 chose byu, and 3 went out of state. no, we're not "hidden", but a lot of the top talent is still staying close to home. 8 of the top 30 in Utah chose BYU; only 2 came to USU. I don't know, maybe we didn't even offer or want many of those top 30 kids that we didn't get, but if those other programs want them, I think we would/should too. If we were to get back to a place where we could get even 3-4 of those BYU commits to chose USU instead, with an occasional top-15 or even top-10 recruit choosing USU, I say that's where we ought to be. Realistically Utah and other PAC12/Big12 teams are going to siphon off the cream of the crop. But we should realistically be able to compete for the rest and be a soft landing place for those that want to play close to home...
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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by BigBlueBlood » December 11th, 2020, 12:34 pm

newhouse9 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 11:23 am
BigBlueBlood wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:50 am
Aggies22, can you please provide all the examples of the Florida recruits the previous staff "routinely" turned away in favor of lesser talent from Utah? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but this is a serious accusation of the current staff. In fact, your post states that the local kids they kept were "much lower rated," and you capitalized "much." If true, this is unacceptable and should be brought out.
To what end? I'm curious what the intent of bringing it out now would be? Thanks!
Transparency and accountability, which help prevent it happening again or in the opposite direction. Any time a coaching staff, or any group, believes it can do something because no one will care, especially after they are gone, it or other things keep happening. Also, requesting evidence of such statements or accusations helps keep us working from facts and not hyperbole or rumor. So, there is that.



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by slcagg » December 11th, 2020, 12:56 pm

ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm
slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:02 pm
aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:41 am
Sl7vk wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:02 am
I think I'm one of the few that feels this way, but I think the old formula's that proved successful might not apply anymore.
The missionary program and the poly-pipeline.... not sure they are still the cornerstone's of our identity.
I think there are different ways of getting us to where we want to go now. The world has shrunk and our minds need to open up a bit... think bigger.
You've made SEVERAL fantastic points in this thread my Aggie brother. Guys the Poly pipeline is NO LONGER a secret the rest of the college football world has caught on. 10 years ago when it worked so well for the Utah teams we reaped the benefits. Now EVERYONE recruits Poly kids. EVERYONE should be recruiting the Polynesian kids. The outgoing staff ROUTINELY shot down kids from Florida that attempted to commit in order to take MUCH lower rated kids from Utah. We have to broaden our recruiting umbrella and not be so narrow minded as a fan base.
To these points look at who is getting the top Utah players even. It isn’t Utah and BYU. Recruiting has become a national focus and Utah Polynesians are no longer hidden from the top programs.
for the 2020 class, 6 of the top 10 chose Utah (although 1 of these is a basketball commit?), 1 chose byu, and 3 went out of state. no, we're not "hidden", but a lot of the top talent is still staying close to home. 8 of the top 30 in Utah chose BYU; only 2 came to USU. I don't know, maybe we didn't even offer or want many of those top 30 kids that we didn't get, but if those other programs want them, I think we would/should too. If we were to get back to a place where we could get even 3-4 of those BYU commits to chose USU instead, with an occasional top-15 or even top-10 recruit choosing USU, I say that's where we ought to be. Realistically Utah and other PAC12/Big12 teams are going to siphon off the cream of the crop. But we should realistically be able to compete for the rest and be a soft landing place for those that want to play close to home...
What about the top 5? The 4 star recruits. 3 to Oregon, 1 likely to usc and 1 to BYU.



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by utahcountyaggie » December 11th, 2020, 1:06 pm

TrueAG wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:55 am
Poly recruiting is fascinating to me. Is it really that shallow that Poly guys will only go to a place where they are recruited by a Poly coach? If this is the logic won't Sitake get all the best guys anyways? Where do we rank on the list?
I served a mission in Tonga, and have studied to remain fluent in Tongan over the last decade or so.
There are some BIG pieces of polynesian culture that factor huge into decision making: culture/tradition, family, pride.
To answer your immediate question, yes, being recruited by a poly coach would be a HUGE factor. If they have some type of way back familial connection, that's immediately a big leg up. It's highly common for polynesians to dive right into talking about villages that your family is from and forming those connections immediately upon meeting someone for the first time.

It's also big for polynesian parents to trust that a coach/staff can understand the values of their culture.
Playing into the culturual aspect.....the rich will keep getting richer. BYU and Utah will continue to get higher profile polynesians because they have more polynesians on team. The more polynesians are part of a program, the more other polynesians and their families will want them to join.
I know many local Utah Tongan families who dream of their sons playing for Kalani Sitake, because he's Tongan.

For us to be competitive in polynesian recruiting, we almost certainly have to have polynesian coaches on staff.
We also need to get me on staff in some capacity, so I can throw out some Tongan to parents, that'd be bound to win us over at least a few poly recruits :)
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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by ShowMeAggie » December 11th, 2020, 1:22 pm

slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:56 pm
ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm
slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:02 pm
aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:41 am
Sl7vk wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:02 am
I think I'm one of the few that feels this way, but I think the old formula's that proved successful might not apply anymore.
The missionary program and the poly-pipeline.... not sure they are still the cornerstone's of our identity.
I think there are different ways of getting us to where we want to go now. The world has shrunk and our minds need to open up a bit... think bigger.
You've made SEVERAL fantastic points in this thread my Aggie brother. Guys the Poly pipeline is NO LONGER a secret the rest of the college football world has caught on. 10 years ago when it worked so well for the Utah teams we reaped the benefits. Now EVERYONE recruits Poly kids. EVERYONE should be recruiting the Polynesian kids. The outgoing staff ROUTINELY shot down kids from Florida that attempted to commit in order to take MUCH lower rated kids from Utah. We have to broaden our recruiting umbrella and not be so narrow minded as a fan base.
To these points look at who is getting the top Utah players even. It isn’t Utah and BYU. Recruiting has become a national focus and Utah Polynesians are no longer hidden from the top programs.
for the 2020 class, 6 of the top 10 chose Utah (although 1 of these is a basketball commit?), 1 chose byu, and 3 went out of state. no, we're not "hidden", but a lot of the top talent is still staying close to home. 8 of the top 30 in Utah chose BYU; only 2 came to USU. I don't know, maybe we didn't even offer or want many of those top 30 kids that we didn't get, but if those other programs want them, I think we would/should too. If we were to get back to a place where we could get even 3-4 of those BYU commits to chose USU instead, with an occasional top-15 or even top-10 recruit choosing USU, I say that's where we ought to be. Realistically Utah and other PAC12/Big12 teams are going to siphon off the cream of the crop. But we should realistically be able to compete for the rest and be a soft landing place for those that want to play close to home...
What about the top 5? The 4 star recruits. 3 to Oregon, 1 likely to usc and 1 to BYU.
you're talking 2021s. I specified 2020 class, for which the top 5 ended up as 1 Oregon + 4 Utah. For 2021, it is as you have noted.
that still doesn't contradict my point. PAC12 will siphon off the cream of the crop. but we should be able to compete (beat!) byu in recruiting battles. for 2021 byu has 5 of the top 20 utah recruits - one of the top 5! - but we only have 1 of the top 20. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have that one, but there's no real reason why we should just concede the best in-state players...



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by oleblu111 » December 11th, 2020, 1:23 pm

aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:36 am
GameFAQSAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 9:42 am
ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 9:36 am
Don't forget current USU position coaches Bojay Filimoeatu (ILB) and Justin Ena (OLB). Although BA (and we) may be looking for a clean sweep? In addition, I haven't been overly impressed with our LBs this year so far, so maybe we wouldn't want to consider these two anyway?
I have suggested having Bojay coach running backs just to keep his recruiting.
Bojay hasn't really done a ton. If you want to keep assistants JUST on their recruiting merit alone. You keep Frank, Stacy and Roc Bellantoni. BUT I'm hearing that all the assistants are out the lone holdover may only be Zach Nyborg.
My source has a little different understanding, some of the present staff will be asked to remain, rather they do or not is another story.
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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by Aggie84025 » December 11th, 2020, 1:25 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 1:23 pm
aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:36 am
GameFAQSAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 9:42 am
ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 9:36 am
Don't forget current USU position coaches Bojay Filimoeatu (ILB) and Justin Ena (OLB). Although BA (and we) may be looking for a clean sweep? In addition, I haven't been overly impressed with our LBs this year so far, so maybe we wouldn't want to consider these two anyway?
I have suggested having Bojay coach running backs just to keep his recruiting.
Bojay hasn't really done a ton. If you want to keep assistants JUST on their recruiting merit alone. You keep Frank, Stacy and Roc Bellantoni. BUT I'm hearing that all the assistants are out the lone holdover may only be Zach Nyborg.
My source has a little different understanding, some of the present staff will be asked to remain, rather they do or not is another story.
So which ones are going to be asked to stay on?



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by slcagg » December 11th, 2020, 1:30 pm

ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 1:22 pm
slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:56 pm
ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm
slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:02 pm
aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:41 am
Sl7vk wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:02 am
I think I'm one of the few that feels this way, but I think the old formula's that proved successful might not apply anymore.
The missionary program and the poly-pipeline.... not sure they are still the cornerstone's of our identity.
I think there are different ways of getting us to where we want to go now. The world has shrunk and our minds need to open up a bit... think bigger.
You've made SEVERAL fantastic points in this thread my Aggie brother. Guys the Poly pipeline is NO LONGER a secret the rest of the college football world has caught on. 10 years ago when it worked so well for the Utah teams we reaped the benefits. Now EVERYONE recruits Poly kids. EVERYONE should be recruiting the Polynesian kids. The outgoing staff ROUTINELY shot down kids from Florida that attempted to commit in order to take MUCH lower rated kids from Utah. We have to broaden our recruiting umbrella and not be so narrow minded as a fan base.
To these points look at who is getting the top Utah players even. It isn’t Utah and BYU. Recruiting has become a national focus and Utah Polynesians are no longer hidden from the top programs.
for the 2020 class, 6 of the top 10 chose Utah (although 1 of these is a basketball commit?), 1 chose byu, and 3 went out of state. no, we're not "hidden", but a lot of the top talent is still staying close to home. 8 of the top 30 in Utah chose BYU; only 2 came to USU. I don't know, maybe we didn't even offer or want many of those top 30 kids that we didn't get, but if those other programs want them, I think we would/should too. If we were to get back to a place where we could get even 3-4 of those BYU commits to chose USU instead, with an occasional top-15 or even top-10 recruit choosing USU, I say that's where we ought to be. Realistically Utah and other PAC12/Big12 teams are going to siphon off the cream of the crop. But we should realistically be able to compete for the rest and be a soft landing place for those that want to play close to home...
What about the top 5? The 4 star recruits. 3 to Oregon, 1 likely to usc and 1 to BYU.
you're talking 2021s. I specified 2020 class, for which the top 5 ended up as 1 Oregon + 4 Utah. For 2021, it is as you have noted.
that still doesn't contradict my point. PAC12 will siphon off the cream of the crop. but we should be able to compete (beat!) byu in recruiting battles. for 2021 byu has 5 of the top 20 utah recruits - one of the top 5! - but we only have 1 of the top 20. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have that one, but there's no real reason why we should just concede the best in-state players...
Don’t disagree. Think we maybe are getting at two different points. I would agree we still recruit the state heavily but am fine getting the best player regardless of location.



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by Full » December 11th, 2020, 1:42 pm

Roy McAvoy wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 11:51 am
I want to add that I think that the cfb paradigm has changed a bit with the "formula". The transfer landscape has changed things. USU should put a big focus on transfer IMO. That's an area we can bring in more talented/higher recruited kids that are looking for more playing time or whatever it may be.
I don’t know that recruiting transfers will work out much better than recruiting High School kids. Jason Shelley, CJ Pollard, and Keegan Duncan were missed while Marcus Moore was a hit for 2020. 2019 Christian LaValle, Terin Adam’s, and Riley Burt were misses while Siaosi Mariner and Caleb Repp were hits. If the rule change is a game changer for transfers, I hope the new staff is better.



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by Madmartigan » December 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm

Full wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 1:42 pm
Roy McAvoy wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 11:51 am
I want to add that I think that the cfb paradigm has changed a bit with the "formula". The transfer landscape has changed things. USU should put a big focus on transfer IMO. That's an area we can bring in more talented/higher recruited kids that are looking for more playing time or whatever it may be.
I don’t know that recruiting transfers will work out much better than recruiting High School kids. Jason Shelley, CJ Pollard, and Keegan Duncan were missed while Marcus Moore was a hit for 2020. 2019 Christian LaValle, Terin Adam’s, and Riley Burt were misses while Siaosi Mariner and Caleb Repp were hits. If the rule change is a game changer for transfers, I hope the new staff is better.
Henninger was also a 2019 transfer wasn't he? If so, that's another hit.



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by ShowMeAggie » December 11th, 2020, 2:56 pm

slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 1:30 pm
ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 1:22 pm
slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:56 pm
ShowMeAggie wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:30 pm
slcagg wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 12:02 pm
aggies22 wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:41 am
Sl7vk wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 10:02 am
I think I'm one of the few that feels this way, but I think the old formula's that proved successful might not apply anymore.
The missionary program and the poly-pipeline.... not sure they are still the cornerstone's of our identity.
I think there are different ways of getting us to where we want to go now. The world has shrunk and our minds need to open up a bit... think bigger.
You've made SEVERAL fantastic points in this thread my Aggie brother. Guys the Poly pipeline is NO LONGER a secret the rest of the college football world has caught on. 10 years ago when it worked so well for the Utah teams we reaped the benefits. Now EVERYONE recruits Poly kids. EVERYONE should be recruiting the Polynesian kids. The outgoing staff ROUTINELY shot down kids from Florida that attempted to commit in order to take MUCH lower rated kids from Utah. We have to broaden our recruiting umbrella and not be so narrow minded as a fan base.
To these points look at who is getting the top Utah players even. It isn’t Utah and BYU. Recruiting has become a national focus and Utah Polynesians are no longer hidden from the top programs.
for the 2020 class, 6 of the top 10 chose Utah (although 1 of these is a basketball commit?), 1 chose byu, and 3 went out of state. no, we're not "hidden", but a lot of the top talent is still staying close to home. 8 of the top 30 in Utah chose BYU; only 2 came to USU. I don't know, maybe we didn't even offer or want many of those top 30 kids that we didn't get, but if those other programs want them, I think we would/should too. If we were to get back to a place where we could get even 3-4 of those BYU commits to chose USU instead, with an occasional top-15 or even top-10 recruit choosing USU, I say that's where we ought to be. Realistically Utah and other PAC12/Big12 teams are going to siphon off the cream of the crop. But we should realistically be able to compete for the rest and be a soft landing place for those that want to play close to home...
What about the top 5? The 4 star recruits. 3 to Oregon, 1 likely to usc and 1 to BYU.
you're talking 2021s. I specified 2020 class, for which the top 5 ended up as 1 Oregon + 4 Utah. For 2021, it is as you have noted.
that still doesn't contradict my point. PAC12 will siphon off the cream of the crop. but we should be able to compete (beat!) byu in recruiting battles. for 2021 byu has 5 of the top 20 utah recruits - one of the top 5! - but we only have 1 of the top 20. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have that one, but there's no real reason why we should just concede the best in-state players...
Don’t disagree. Think we maybe are getting at two different points. I would agree we still recruit the state heavily but am fine getting the best player regardless of location.
and i completely agree with that. i don't think we necessarily prioritize utah over anywhere else...like you said...get the best players no matter where they come from. i just think that in most years the #10-#30 kids in Utah are going to be 1) 3* talent and 2) up for grabs. And I would hate to see us turn a blind eye to those kids that might actually WANT to play in-state. but if we don't at least try, we'll whiff badly on them, which is not a good look for us, IMO.

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside the state. It is a terrible fight and it is between two schools. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

"The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”



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Re: Recruiting Formula

Post by Full » December 11th, 2020, 3:04 pm

Madmartigan wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
Full wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 1:42 pm
Roy McAvoy wrote:
December 11th, 2020, 11:51 am
I want to add that I think that the cfb paradigm has changed a bit with the "formula". The transfer landscape has changed things. USU should put a big focus on transfer IMO. That's an area we can bring in more talented/higher recruited kids that are looking for more playing time or whatever it may be.
I don’t know that recruiting transfers will work out much better than recruiting High School kids. Jason Shelley, CJ Pollard, and Keegan Duncan were missed while Marcus Moore was a hit for 2020. 2019 Christian LaValle, Terin Adam’s, and Riley Burt were misses while Siaosi Mariner and Caleb Repp were hits. If the rule change is a game changer for transfers, I hope the new staff is better.
Henninger was also a 2019 transfer wasn't he? If so, that's another hit.
You’re right. I didn’t think of him, and he wasn’t on the website I was refreshing my memory with. If the last two years are any indication, transfers are as hot and miss as signing a high school kid, with less upside. For ten scholarships for 2019 and 2020, there are three players making an impact on the field in 2020. That’s not sustainable.

My point is I think transfers are not a good place to recruit. High school recruits have higher upside and work out just as often.



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