what i know

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what i know

Post by sammyhagar » November 10th, 2020, 9:45 am

sorry for the new topic, but all this chasing rabbits down the squirrel holes was a bit much to continue to follow.
What I do know:
1). the decision was made prior to the Nevada game, and the "big" money donors were definitely involved and informed.
2). why do you think GA post game interview was down right strange after the game....
3.) J Hartwell's preference is to NOT to hire Jay Hill, or any other FCS coach. Hartwell wants to get a Coordinator from a Big Name Program. Jay Hill's name was brought up to him a few times, and he ( at this time) strongly prefers going after someone from a big name program.

IMO: Jay Hill brings more to the table than a big name school coordinator. Knowledge of the state, missionaries, Polynesians, etc.
Bovee may be an influence, but apparently JH is very set on what he is looking for.
Interesting that Coach Smith didn't come from a big name school....so who knows where this will end.

Was Orlando Head Coach material? I am not in those kind of circles to know.
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Re: what i know

Post by 2004AG » November 10th, 2020, 9:53 am

sammyhagar wrote:sorry for the new topic, but all this chasing rabbits down the squirrel holes was a bit much to continue to follow.
What I do know:
1). the decision was made prior to the Nevada game, and the "big" money donors were definitely involved and informed.
2). why do you think GA post game interview was down right strange after the game....
3.) J Hartwell's preference is to NOT to hire Jay Hill, or any other FCS coach. Hartwell wants to get a Coordinator from a Big Name Program. Jay Hill's name was brought up to him a few times, and he ( at this time) strongly prefers going after someone from a big name program.

IMO: Jay Hill brings more to the table than a big name school coordinator. Knowledge of the state, missionaries, Polynesians, etc.
Bovee may be an influence, but apparently JH is very set on what he is looking for.
Interesting that Coach Smith didn't come from a big name school....so who knows where this will end.

Was Orlando Head Coach material? I am not in those kind of circles to know.
Good info.

The problem with a big name school coordinator is they make too much.

Like a Graham Harrell, Steve Sarkisean seem to make more than we can afford. They aren’t going to take a 500k pay cut.


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Re: what i know

Post by JonnyCienPesos » November 10th, 2020, 9:58 am

It’s not going to be someone with USU ties. And likely not even anyone with ties to the State of Utah. It’s going to be a fresh start.


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Re: what i know

Post by AndroidAggie » November 10th, 2020, 10:02 am

thanks for the new thread and info, gents. distilled.

not sure how i feel about the no utah connection. but i love the idea of a fresh start. it's not like utah is hard to get, but you do need to get it to function well here.



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Re: what i know

Post by hickaggie » November 10th, 2020, 10:09 am

2004AG wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 9:53 am
sammyhagar wrote:sorry for the new topic, but all this chasing rabbits down the squirrel holes was a bit much to continue to follow.
What I do know:
1). the decision was made prior to the Nevada game, and the "big" money donors were definitely involved and informed.
2). why do you think GA post game interview was down right strange after the game....
3.) J Hartwell's preference is to NOT to hire Jay Hill, or any other FCS coach. Hartwell wants to get a Coordinator from a Big Name Program. Jay Hill's name was brought up to him a few times, and he ( at this time) strongly prefers going after someone from a big name program.

IMO: Jay Hill brings more to the table than a big name school coordinator. Knowledge of the state, missionaries, Polynesians, etc.
Bovee may be an influence, but apparently JH is very set on what he is looking for.
Interesting that Coach Smith didn't come from a big name school....so who knows where this will end.

Was Orlando Head Coach material? I am not in those kind of circles to know.
Good info.

The problem with a big name school coordinator is they make too much.

Like a Graham Harrell, Steve Sarkisean seem to make more than we can afford. They aren’t going to take a 500k pay cut.


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Yeah, what do you define as a big name school. Because approximately 1/2 the P5 schools have coordinators that would take a pay cut and most of the other decent coordinators would be making about the same here. Is Texas Tech a big name school? Because they have a certain coordinator. 2 of them in fact. But they have USU ties....



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Re: what i know

Post by Yossarian » November 10th, 2020, 10:13 am

I'm sure candidates will be provided plenty of information on the nuances of recruiting Utah and dealing with LDS missionaries during the interviews and subsequent meetings/conversations before they are hired or accept the job. There are plenty of resources to assist a staff that is not familiar with the culture. It may even be encouraged that they choose an assistant or two that is from the area to help in that regard.

I like the idea of bringing in someone from Texas or Florida that has strong recruiting ties to those areas.



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Re: what i know

Post by TrueAG » November 10th, 2020, 10:14 am

I like the fresh start idea. Someone young, energetic and strong recruiting base outside the state. We can always have staff with Utah ties and we will always have a Poly connection on staff.



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Re: what i know

Post by BLUERUFiO » November 10th, 2020, 10:33 am

I really, really trust JH. I'm game as long as he has a lot of autonomy in this decision.
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Re: what i know

Post by Aggie84025 » November 10th, 2020, 10:34 am

Coach Smith had no connections to Utah and he is flourishing in his role. I think Jay Hill should be looked at, but I like the idea of trying to bring in the best person you can. If that is Jay Hill then great, but if not just get the best candidate that will get us back to competing the MW. It is clear Hartwell did not want Gary and quite frankly the way it was going he was absolutely right. If you bring is someone with no ties to Utah you can bring in some coaches that are familiar with ie. (Frank Maile).



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Re: what i know

Post by JFW_AGGIES » November 10th, 2020, 10:35 am

I would think it will be a coach from the southeast, look in this region for prospects



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Re: what i know

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » November 10th, 2020, 10:37 am

Talked to my brother-in-law who is a big Oregon fan. He said not to take Andy Avalos, go for someone else. He really likes Avalos. And I like the idea of a defensive head coach.



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Re: what i know

Post by Tchei » November 10th, 2020, 10:39 am

I wonder what the definition of "big name program" is. Sarkisian, for example, makes almost triple Gary's USU salary as 'Bama OC. Even a place like Oklahoma State pays it's OC double. Start getting into the mid-tier P5 programs and there might be a financial incentive to take the USU HC job, but at that point, what makes them a better option than someone with head coach experience like Hill?



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Re: what i know

Post by hickaggie » November 10th, 2020, 10:42 am

Maybe Hartwell has something up his sleeve with the big donors that will allow a doubling of the offered salary. Do that and you might attract a big name guy for a pay cut as long as he could leave for a bigger school without paying a buyout.



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Re: what i know

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 10th, 2020, 10:45 am

Aggie84025 wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 10:34 am
Coach Smith had no connections to Utah and he is flourishing in his role. I think Jay Hill should be looked at, but I like the idea of trying to bring in the best person you can. If that is Jay Hill then great, but if not just get the best candidate that will get us back to competing the MW. It is clear Hartwell did not want Gary and quite frankly the way it was going he was absolutely right. If you bring is someone with no ties to Utah you can bring in some coaches that are familiar with ie. (Frank Maile).
Yep, people bagging on the "no Utah connection" angle only need to look up to the Spectrum and see that philosophy worked out fine during Hartwell's last rodeo.
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Re: what i know

Post by AGGIEFIGHT » November 10th, 2020, 11:27 am

My guess is our search firm will be heavily involved in narrowing down the candidates
Smith was recommended by our search firm and it turned out very good. We went against their advice when we hired Anderson and you know where it turned out. Hartwell is now being represented by the same search firm. Major Donor(s)
Have a personal relationship with the our search firm. It is their business to know who the up and coming coaches are in the
country. They go so far as know their personal lives and know who would be a good fit for Logan,Utah.
I would guess we will see some surprises come out of this process with some names we have never heard of.



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Re: what i know

Post by ViAggie » November 10th, 2020, 11:36 am

I like this approach. I remember when Utes were upset that Urban Meyer was brought in from Bowling Green. They all head the same exact arguments, no ties to the state, no ties to the program, etc. I say good, sometimes a fresh prospective and a new set of eyes is a good thing!

We don't want to hire Steve Sark, that's for sure, not unless you ultimately want a drunk guy running the ship... oh wait :oops:
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Re: what i know

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 10th, 2020, 11:37 am

AGGIEFIGHT wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 11:27 am
My guess is our search firm will be heavily involved in narrowing down the candidates
Smith was recommended by our search firm and it turned out very good. We went against their advice when we hired Anderson and you know where it turned out. Hartwell is now being represented by the same search firm. Major Donor(s)
Have a personal relationship with the our search firm. It is their business to know who the up and coming coaches are in the
country. They go so far as know their personal lives and know who would be a good fit for Logan,Utah.
I would guess we will see some surprises come out of this process with some names we have never heard of.
I remember the search firm being a point of big debate two years ago. Hopefully we listen to them this time.



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Re: what i know

Post by Dwigt » November 10th, 2020, 11:41 am

JFW_AGGIES wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 10:35 am
I would think it will be a coach from the southeast, look in this region for prospects
Maybe someone like Warren Ruggiero, the OC at Wake Forest?


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Re: what i know

Post by El Sapo » November 10th, 2020, 11:44 am

John Madden was on his way to Logan for a coaching job at one point, so it's best to look at all potential candidates, not just those with cow manure on their boots and a Book of Mormon in their luggage
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Re: what i know

Post by 2004AG » November 10th, 2020, 11:45 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
AGGIEFIGHT wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 11:27 am
My guess is our search firm will be heavily involved in narrowing down the candidates
Smith was recommended by our search firm and it turned out very good. We went against their advice when we hired Anderson and you know where it turned out. Hartwell is now being represented by the same search firm. Major Donor(s)
Have a personal relationship with the our search firm. It is their business to know who the up and coming coaches are in the
country. They go so far as know their personal lives and know who would be a good fit for Logan,Utah.
I would guess we will see some surprises come out of this process with some names we have never heard of.
I remember the search firm being a point of big debate two years ago. Hopefully we listen to them this time.
I’m not a fan of them. We pay JH the big bucks to make the decision. Picking the head coach is his most important job......and he just delegates it.


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Re: what i know

Post by mcaggie1 » November 10th, 2020, 11:51 am

sammyhagar wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 9:45 am
sorry for the new topic, but all this chasing rabbits down the squirrel holes was a bit much to continue to follow.
What I do know:
1). the decision was made prior to the Nevada game, and the "big" money donors were definitely involved and informed.
2). why do you think GA post game interview was down right strange after the game....
3.) J Hartwell's preference is to NOT to hire Jay Hill, or any other FCS coach. Hartwell wants to get a Coordinator from a Big Name Program. Jay Hill's name was brought up to him a few times, and he ( at this time) strongly prefers going after someone from a big name program.

IMO: Jay Hill brings more to the table than a big name school coordinator. Knowledge of the state, missionaries, Polynesians, etc.
Bovee may be an influence, but apparently JH is very set on what he is looking for.
Interesting that Coach Smith didn't come from a big name school....so who knows where this will end.

Was Orlando Head Coach material? I am not in those kind of circles to know.
I can validate your point #3. My next door neighbor’s son was contacted by Hartwell 3 and 1/2 weeks ago and asked if he would be interested in the head coaching job. He is the Defensive Coordinator at a bigger school. I have been asked to not reveal anything more than that. Right now he thinks he will get an even bigger offer, so he took his name off the list.



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Re: what i know

Post by Aglicious » November 10th, 2020, 11:55 am

2004AG wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 11:45 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
AGGIEFIGHT wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 11:27 am
My guess is our search firm will be heavily involved in narrowing down the candidates
Smith was recommended by our search firm and it turned out very good. We went against their advice when we hired Anderson and you know where it turned out. Hartwell is now being represented by the same search firm. Major Donor(s)
Have a personal relationship with the our search firm. It is their business to know who the up and coming coaches are in the
country. They go so far as know their personal lives and know who would be a good fit for Logan,Utah.
I would guess we will see some surprises come out of this process with some names we have never heard of.
I remember the search firm being a point of big debate two years ago. Hopefully we listen to them this time.
I’m not a fan of them. We pay JH the big bucks to make the decision. Picking the head coach is his most important job......and he just delegates it.


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Normally I agree with you on this one. This time however, the timing of the season with different teams at different points in the season it is difficult to directly call people as the AD and not have it feel like you are tampering with or distracting potential candidates that still have a job to do where they are at. Using the firm at least puts a 3rd party in between to eliminate that awkwardness while still being able to gauge interest in the opening. In the end, JH and Pres. Cockett will make the final call after conducting interviews with those from the suggested pool.

My guess is if JH has any names in mind he lets the firm know up front so they can pursue those leads.



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Re: what i know

Post by Sl7vk » November 10th, 2020, 11:56 am

Not using a search firm would be a colossal error.
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Re: what i know

Post by JonnyCienPesos » November 10th, 2020, 12:00 pm

The search firm enables you to identify all interested and available candidates. Many of which might fall through the cracks otherwise. It also facilitates communication with those candidates who might be currently employed. The search firm doesn’t choose who you interview or hire.


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Re: what i know

Post by hickaggie » November 10th, 2020, 12:03 pm

JonnyCienPesos wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 12:00 pm
The search firm enables you to identify all interested and available candidates. Many of which might fall through the cracks otherwise. It also facilitates communication with those candidates who might be currently employed. The search firm doesn’t choose who you interview or hire.


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I agree. Its a legality issue whereas the search firm has a lot more latitude in avoiding contractual interference issues and conducting background checks and interviews. I'm gonna trust Hartwell on this one. He nailed it with Smith while I was big on bringing back Gary..lol. Let him do his thing.
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Re: what i know

Post by BLUERUFiO » November 10th, 2020, 12:08 pm

It's also an opportunity cost thing. Could JH become the expert of ALL the potential candidates from the 300+ potential schools? Yes... but does he have other responsibilities at the school as well?

Why does a company have a legal department when they also hire outside, specialized law firms for certain matters?


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Re: what i know

Post by 2004AG » November 10th, 2020, 12:25 pm

I get it. Search firms are universally lauded around here. They are just perfect. I just disagree. What do they cost? Probably a million bucks or so? I think the money could be used better elsewhere and not delegate the responsibility.



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Re: what i know

Post by Sl7vk » November 10th, 2020, 12:32 pm

2004AG wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 12:25 pm
I get it. Search firms are universally lauded around here. They are just perfect. I just disagree. What do they cost? Probably a million bucks or so? I think the money could be used better elsewhere and not delegate the responsibility.
Closer to 100k.

Most times in life you have to spend money to make money.

100k on a 5 million dollar investment.... peanuts.



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Re: what i know

Post by Mr. Sneelock » November 10th, 2020, 12:37 pm

To a point, some coaches might be willing to take a (relatively) minor pay cut to become a head coach, with the thinking that this head coaching gig could help build a resume for a big-time head-coach job down the road.


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Re: what i know

Post by ususports » November 10th, 2020, 12:56 pm

2004AG wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 12:25 pm
I get it. Search firms are universally lauded around here. They are just perfect. I just disagree. What do they cost? Probably a million bucks or so? I think the money could be used better elsewhere and not delegate the responsibility.
It is no different than an employer using CareerBuilder or indeed.com to find applicants. Some people say it’s a waste of money, but others find it is helpful in finding more qualified and interested applicants. I am on the side of increasing your odds of hiring the right person by having the most applicants to choose from, and that far outweighs the cost hiring a potential crappy person from a limited pool of applicants. There are valid arguments for both sides.



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Re: what i know

Post by NHAggie » November 10th, 2020, 1:02 pm

USU will most likely use DHR International for HC search. This is the same firm used by Hartwell to find Craig Smith. That seem to work out so far. I suspect most universities use a search firm these days. Cost is around 100K.


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Re: what i know

Post by OrangeCountyAggie » November 10th, 2020, 1:04 pm

Truth is, head coaching vacancies at good schools in respectable conferences don't become available all that often. You'd be surprised (or so I've been told) how many really great candidates are clamoring to get an interview.



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Re: what i know

Post by GeorgiaAggie » November 10th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Look at LH's hires (all of them) so far at USU. He goes for young, up and comers, who have ENERGY. There needs to be a boost of excitement injected into our football team, and sadly this time around, Gary couldn't do it. JH will stick to his formula and I bet he will hit a home run. I have no reason to think otherwise.



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Re: what i know

Post by ViAggie » November 10th, 2020, 1:38 pm

GeorgiaAggie wrote:
November 10th, 2020, 1:30 pm
Look at LH's hires (all of them) so far at USU. He goes for young, up and comers, who have ENERGY. There needs to be a boost of excitement injected into our football team, and sadly this time around, Gary couldn't do it. JH will stick to his formula and I bet he will hit a home run. I have no reason to think otherwise.
So we're not bringing JLSmith back? :lol:


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Re: what i know

Post by AGGIEFIGHT » November 10th, 2020, 1:47 pm

It's nice to see a reasonable conversation on this topic. thanks
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