Building continuity, Can we do it?

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BobWilson
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Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by BobWilson » November 7th, 2020, 4:35 pm

Beginning in the 1950's USU football has been one of peaks and valleys. Boise State, on the other hand, since evolving from Jr. College to D-1AA to D1-A (sic) has seen coaches come and go but has never lost a beat towards their goal of excellence. What has been the Bronco's keys? Here are a few, please join in with your suggestions. Perhaps their are lessons for us.

1. Football from the beginning has been a top priority to BSU fans. The first year they played D-1AA ball 500 Broncho fans traveled to Ogden to see the Weber State game and all that I talked to that night were thinking of bigger and better things.

2. The Boise area has had a large influx of people from all over the country, many looking for a "team.." to support and bringins a sense of importance of a first-class football program to the university and the community.

3. BSU has become the football program in the state of Idaho, surpassing UI and ISU by large margins, not the third program in the state..

4. They have access to a semimajor airport, facilitating recruiting and travel to games.

5. Continued success begets success.

So, what can we doo to improve the situation? And what other factors should be considered?



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by Aggie19 » November 7th, 2020, 5:41 pm

I agree and think that we can build continuity, I'm just not sure we can build it the Boise way. The situations are totally different. The Cache Valley isn't going to be the size of Boise with the community resources anytime soon, we're much smaller.

I think number one is obviously to win, as you say, success begets success. I am of the opinion that we need to be aggressive and creative in play calling. I say this not from a football perspective, but from a marketing perspective. Unlike our friendly neighbor universities to the south, we have to pull more fans from a further distance, up a canyon road, sometimes in the snow. We need to give them a reason to do it. Wins and excitement are how we do it. Bottomline, this is about entertainment and what people are going to pay money for and spend time doing. So those two are my top.

I also think we as Aggie fans need to buy extra tickets and bring friends. Bring them to the Valley in fall, go see things, check it out, then take them to the game. And for those that don't live in the Logan area, I think we can be more vocal about our Aggies. We get drowned out by the other two, we have to get loud. Talk about em, call into shows, comment on articles, wear your Aggie crap around. I know that seems a little campy, but the Boise fans are fanatical, the only way we build something is to get fanatical too.

My two cents.


Go Aggies!

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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by BobWilson » November 7th, 2020, 6:02 pm

Interesting to take a look at BYU's FB history. Until the mid 1960's BYU played in literally half a stadium and had a hard time filling it. Then htey decided to improve the program. They constructed the first phase of a new stadium and gave away thousands of tickets to LDS youth who came to games with a parent or two. Then an Aggie coach, my cousin, started winning, the kids grew up hooked on BYU FB - And now we have the third ans fourth generations of those FB pioneers supporting the pale blue cougs.

The commonality between BYU and BSU is - they decided to improve the program - then each set out on different paths but kept the goal firmly in mind.

(A further illustration of how far BYU FB as evolved is the fact that in the 1950's, BYU refused to match Aggie Head Track and Field coach Ralph Maughan's USU salary when he interviewed for the position of head FB coach at BYU.)
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by Bank Shot » November 7th, 2020, 6:33 pm

Boise has done something very unusual in this era, also. When Koetter left they promoted Hawkins, and kept in house with Peterson and Harsin. And if Harsin leaves, I believe the only G5 job Avalos would take would be Boise. And don't forget that when they were a JC, the were a national powerhouse. Football has been the only game in town for decades. Rice has had limited success in basketball, but the only time they could fill seats to capacity was back during the Bobby Dye days.

I lived in Boise for years, and it always amazed me that, being a rather small college for years and coming from JC roots that everyone has the passion of being a 5th generation alum. Bandwagon effect indeed, and I've always wondered what would happen with a few mediocre seasons.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by DreadPirateRoberts » November 7th, 2020, 8:59 pm

I believe that we need to build a fan base. Start by giving 5th graders access to discounted tickets maybe buy-one-get-one-free so a parent has to come. That will give kids an experience and possibly get more kids excited for USU football and USU in general.
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by Blue Sage » November 7th, 2020, 9:44 pm

From my perspective we have built a program. Today is evidence of such and so are our facilities. We don’t put up with mediocrity anymore. So rather than looking at what BS and Provo university’s have done look at what we have done what’s worked here because a lot has worked. Blue collar defense, Polynesian emphasis, mission program, recruiting athletic high class players, wild student section participation, and a bunch of determined skinny cat donors are all very key to what has built our program.
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 7th, 2020, 10:18 pm

To say something positive even in a dark season, we have shown serious progress this past decade in continuity. From 2011-2019 we made 8 bowl games, had 6 winning seasons and three 10 win seasons.

That is a huge step up from the previous 3 decades of Aggie football.
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by BoiseBronco » November 7th, 2020, 11:03 pm

Bank Shot wrote:
November 7th, 2020, 6:33 pm
Boise has done something very unusual in this era, also. When Koetter left they promoted Hawkins, and kept in house with Peterson and Harsin. And if Harsin leaves, I believe the only G5 job Avalos would take would be Boise. And don't forget that when they were a JC, the were a national powerhouse. Football has been the only game in town for decades. Rice has had limited success in basketball, but the only time they could fill seats to capacity was back during the Bobby Dye days.

I lived in Boise for years, and it always amazed me that, being a rather small college for years and coming from JC roots that everyone has the passion of being a 5th generation alum. Bandwagon effect indeed, and I've always wondered what would happen with a few mediocre seasons.
"Bandwagon" hmm.

I attended my first Boise Junior College football game from the sidelines in 1958 (year BJC won National Championship) with my uncle who was the team manager. Have been going ever since. So have hundreds and maybe thousands of other Boise Natives.

Through the years as our personal successes grew so did all of our contributions to the University and our sports programs. My family established an endowed scholarship that provides financial aid to several students each year as did many others. Some others contributed to facilities, some to equipment upgrades. Many are currently helping to fund an east side expansion of our stadium.

As too what would happen with a few mediocre seasons. One just needs to look back to the early 1980's and late 1990's, we stayed strong and made the adjustments needed whether through coaching changes or re-commitment by the players and the University to be the best they could be as we moved on to more success.

Commitment, perseverance and vision is what it takes to have a successful program. As our community has grown many of us old timers have reached out to our new residents and have brought them along to see our vision and help move us forward. Many have opened their arms, their minds and there pocketbooks to ensure BSU will have continued success.

Boise was a small town when we started this rise and it is something that can be replicated in Logan with the right people with the right vision.

Remember, Boise State is stronger with a stronger USU so many of us in Boise support your success as well except for those few days a year when our teams go head to head.

Godspeed Aggies, keep your heads up, keep that vision at the forefront and work hard.
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 7th, 2020, 11:26 pm

Blue Sage wrote:
November 7th, 2020, 9:44 pm
From my perspective we have built a program. Today is evidence of such and so are our facilities. We don’t put up with mediocrity anymore. So rather than looking at what BS and Provo university’s have done look at what we have done what’s worked here because a lot has worked. Blue collar defense, Polynesian emphasis, mission program, recruiting athletic high class players, wild student section participation, and a bunch of determined skinny cat donors are all very key to what has built our program.
Yep, we should give ourselves credit for where we are now. (Not meaning this year specifically)

Aggie football over the last decade has been incredible compared to what came before it at least in the previous 3 decades.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by swordsman1989 » November 8th, 2020, 5:48 am

BobWilson wrote:
November 7th, 2020, 6:02 pm
Interesting to take a look at BYU's FB history. Until the mid 1960's BYU played in literally half a stadium and had a hard time filling it. Then htey decided to improve the program. They constructed the first phase of a new stadium and gave away thousands of tickets to LDS youth who came to games with a parent or two. Then an Aggie coach, my cousin, started winning, the kids grew up hooked on BYU FB - And now we have the third ans fourth generations of those FB pioneers supporting the pale blue cougs.

The commonality between BYU and BSU is - they decided to improve the program - then each set out on different paths but kept the goal firmly in mind.

(A further illustration of how far BYU FB as evolved is the fact that in the 1950's, BYU refused to match Aggie Head Track and Field coach Ralph Maughan's USU salary when he interviewed for the position of head FB coach at BYU.)
I think it is important to note that both BYU and Boise put winning as the priority, ahead of short term financial things. Now of course the situations are different as BYU has the deep pockets of Mormon church supporting it, and BYU football was treated as part of the missionary effort, and Boise has a larger population base than Cache Valley. But both schools played a large number of cupcakes for many years, and establishing a winning culture among their fanbase. Boise played at least two 1-AA/FCS schools each year for the first years they moved to 1-A/FBS, and sometimes played three. When they did play 1-A/FBS games outside of the Big West and WAC, they were regularly playing MAC or MWC schools. When Boise won ten games in 2000, nobody cared that their non Big West conference wins were against New Mexico, Northern Iowa, Central Michigan, Eastern Washington, and UTEP. Their fans cared that they won ten games. Look at BYU's schedules of the 1970s or 1980s. A lot of cupcakes and traditionally weak programs on there. The 11 win team of 1981 had OOC games against Long Beach State, Utah State, UNLV, Colorado (3-8 that year), and Washington State. They even lost to UNLV that year. But people remembered the 11 wins, not who they played. If USU could swing it financially, I think 7 to 10 years of no money games, and most weak opponents, and winning 9 or more games each year, would go a long way to establishing a more healthy financial foundation, and better continuity.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by brownjeans » November 8th, 2020, 6:08 am

We need a great place
We need a great school
We need great living conditions
We need great food
We need great facilities
We need great equipment
We need to make playing USU football fun
We need great on-campus support
We need great community support
We need great athletics staff
We need great coaches
We need great players

We need everyone to feel that there are things (some small, some large) they can do to iteratively deliver the above needs and feel a esponsibility to do so.

IMO, if we have all of them, we'll win consistently.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by BobWilson » November 8th, 2020, 10:10 am

I didn't mean to imply that we have "no program". Indeed we have come a long ways in the past decade but i should hope that we are not entirely satisfied.. And yes our path is different than BYU or BSU but we can learn from other programs, I believe.

Case in point, game attendance: Attendance at John Ralston's first game in 1959, a 14-0 upset of Idaho, drew 3,200 fans. The next year we hit about 11,000 for the Wyoming game and subsequently inched up to occasional games of 15,000 over the next decade even after moving into the new stadium. In those years the total population of Cache Valley was about 20 K and the student body about 6 K . The past several years attendance has been about 20,000 even in the remodeled stadium, about a 30% increase over the base crowd of past decades, but the Valley and student body populations have increased, what, about 4 times the number of past decades? The point is that attendance has not increased anywhere near the rate of increase of population in Cache Valley nor of the student body growth, to say nothing of increased number of alumni within 75 miles of Logan. What can we do to improve this specific situation? Can we learn anything from other programs?

( Old timers used to claim that we had 15,000 for the big game against Colorado and Whizzer White in 1936 in the old Romney Stadium - one of the biggest Aggie victories ever.)
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by Harcher » November 8th, 2020, 10:44 am

Brownjeans list with some additions and breakdown

We need great players
  • We need great coaches --------------money consistent home grown
    We need great athletics staff -----money - good coaching
    We need great facilities --------------money - sufficient ?
    We need great equipment-----------money -- sufficient ?
We need a great place - Done
We need a great school - Done (but beauty is in the eye of beholder... is it as great as SDSU?)
We need great living conditions - Done?

We need make attending USU games fun
  • We need to make playing USU football fun - see good coaches - consistent strategy
    We need to make game-day fun - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great food - money -
    We need great on-campus support - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great community support - money - emotional, physical commitment


1989Swordsman wrote - paraphrase
"Winning begets winning" quit playing money games.

Last decade infused money into our physical facilities to the point of sufficient (agree?)
A small amount of money (relatively speaking) and dedication could get us "fun aggie weekend" ($500k)
Getting a few more wins each year would cost ~$1-2M
Getting the coaching - do we have enough budget for the kind of coach we need (recalling a bit hazy, we are generally bottom of MWC in coaching $$) So add $1M

So we need to find $3M a year to get to next step...

So the ultimate strategy needs to be a step wise model to increase budget. As we've all known who have read this forum for any length of time... The last ~10 years have been and excellent step. What is next?



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by oleblu111 » November 8th, 2020, 11:16 am

Harcher wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 10:44 am
Brownjeans list with some additions and breakdown

We need great players
  • We need great coaches --------------money consistent home grown
    We need great athletics staff -----money - good coaching
    We need great facilities --------------money - sufficient ?
    We need great equipment-----------money -- sufficient ?
We need a great place - Done
We need a great school - Done (but beauty is in the eye of beholder... is it as great as SDSU?)
We need great living conditions - Done?

We need make attending USU games fun
  • We need to make playing USU football fun - see good coaches - consistent strategy
    We need to make game-day fun - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great food - money -
    We need great on-campus support - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great community support - money - emotional, physical commitment


1989Swordsman wrote - paraphrase
"Winning begets winning" quit playing money games.

Last decade infused money into our physical facilities to the point of sufficient (agree?)
A small amount of money (relatively speaking) and dedication could get us "fun aggie weekend" ($500k)
Getting a few more wins each year would cost ~$1-2M
Getting the coaching - do we have enough budget for the kind of coach we need (recalling a bit hazy, we are generally bottom of MWC in coaching $$) So add $1M

So we need to find $3M a year to get to next step...

So the ultimate strategy needs to be a step wise model to increase budget. As we've all known who have read this forum for any length of time... The last ~10 years have been and excellent step. What is next?
The next step must be made by fans and alums, athletic ticket revenue has remained the same for a long period of time second lowest in the MWC, over the same period university support had grown by nearly $10 million.

Comparing what Boise does and what and where USU is a mighty stretch, they are in the Largest city in their state with freeway and air service. BSU spends less university money than what USU does by a large amount. USU has the 2 largest universities in areas with far more population, and Utah with such a large LDS population has many aggie alums leaning that way, as well as the rest of the general population.

What needs to happen is Cache Valley needs to become much bigger and get better access. I believe at one time cache valley was the 4th largest county in Utah then the interstate did not run thru Logan and the rest of the state grew.

What would really help is a large influx of non LDS folks into Cache Valley, good luck with that.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by slcagg » November 8th, 2020, 11:19 am

oleblu111 wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:16 am
Harcher wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 10:44 am
Brownjeans list with some additions and breakdown

We need great players
  • We need great coaches --------------money consistent home grown
    We need great athletics staff -----money - good coaching
    We need great facilities --------------money - sufficient ?
    We need great equipment-----------money -- sufficient ?
We need a great place - Done
We need a great school - Done (but beauty is in the eye of beholder... is it as great as SDSU?)
We need great living conditions - Done?

We need make attending USU games fun
  • We need to make playing USU football fun - see good coaches - consistent strategy
    We need to make game-day fun - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great food - money -
    We need great on-campus support - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great community support - money - emotional, physical commitment


1989Swordsman wrote - paraphrase
"Winning begets winning" quit playing money games.

Last decade infused money into our physical facilities to the point of sufficient (agree?)
A small amount of money (relatively speaking) and dedication could get us "fun aggie weekend" ($500k)
Getting a few more wins each year would cost ~$1-2M
Getting the coaching - do we have enough budget for the kind of coach we need (recalling a bit hazy, we are generally bottom of MWC in coaching $$) So add $1M

So we need to find $3M a year to get to next step...

So the ultimate strategy needs to be a step wise model to increase budget. As we've all known who have read this forum for any length of time... The last ~10 years have been and excellent step. What is next?
The next step must be made by fans and alums, athletic ticket revenue has remained the same for a long period of time second lowest in the MWC, over the same period university support had grown by nearly $10 million.

Comparing what Boise does and what and where USU is a mighty stretch, they are in the Largest city in their state with freeway and air service. BSU spends less university money than what USU does by a large amount. USU has the 2 largest universities in areas with far more population, and Utah with such a large LDS population has many aggie alums leaning that way, as well as the rest of the general population.

What needs to happen is Cache Valley needs to become much bigger and get better access. I believe at one time cache valley was the 4th largest county in Utah then the interstate did not run thru Logan and the rest of the state grew.

What would really help is a large influx of non LDS folks into Cache Valley, good luck with that.
I agree on growth. Really would help if there was more industry in the valley. I mean why not move some of the tech hub in Provo (who wants to live there) up to cache valley.
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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by oleblu111 » November 8th, 2020, 11:26 am

slcagg wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:19 am
oleblu111 wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:16 am
Harcher wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 10:44 am
Brownjeans list with some additions and breakdown

We need great players
  • We need great coaches --------------money consistent home grown
    We need great athletics staff -----money - good coaching
    We need great facilities --------------money - sufficient ?
    We need great equipment-----------money -- sufficient ?
We need a great place - Done
We need a great school - Done (but beauty is in the eye of beholder... is it as great as SDSU?)
We need great living conditions - Done?

We need make attending USU games fun
  • We need to make playing USU football fun - see good coaches - consistent strategy
    We need to make game-day fun - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great food - money -
    We need great on-campus support - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great community support - money - emotional, physical commitment


1989Swordsman wrote - paraphrase
"Winning begets winning" quit playing money games.

Last decade infused money into our physical facilities to the point of sufficient (agree?)
A small amount of money (relatively speaking) and dedication could get us "fun aggie weekend" ($500k)
Getting a few more wins each year would cost ~$1-2M
Getting the coaching - do we have enough budget for the kind of coach we need (recalling a bit hazy, we are generally bottom of MWC in coaching $$) So add $1M

So we need to find $3M a year to get to next step...

So the ultimate strategy needs to be a step wise model to increase budget. As we've all known who have read this forum for any length of time... The last ~10 years have been and excellent step. What is next?
The next step must be made by fans and alums, athletic ticket revenue has remained the same for a long period of time second lowest in the MWC, over the same period university support had grown by nearly $10 million.

Comparing what Boise does and what and where USU is a mighty stretch, they are in the Largest city in their state with freeway and air service. BSU spends less university money than what USU does by a large amount. USU has the 2 largest universities in areas with far more population, and Utah with such a large LDS population has many aggie alums leaning that way, as well as the rest of the general population.

What needs to happen is Cache Valley needs to become much bigger and get better access. I believe at one time cache valley was the 4th largest county in Utah then the interstate did not run thru Logan and the rest of the state grew.

What would really help is a large influx of non LDS folks into Cache Valley, good luck with that.
I agree on growth. Really would help if there was more industry in the valley. I mean why not move some of the tech hub in Provo (who wants to live there) up to cache valley.
Right on but in order to get that type of stuff up here we need better road access, freeway level and some kind of commercial air service. Despite being much closer to the SLC airport Provo has commercial air service to several cities, For hell bells Riverton Wyoming has commercial air service.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by USU78 » November 8th, 2020, 11:50 am

Too often the beancounters and the donors get in the way of our program building: both hate 2-for-1 deals, coupons, give-aways, and deep admission discounts. I get it, you don't want to devalue your product, but I've seen so many new product, line extention, and product reinvigoration progams over the years. Lots of give-aways in those, in addition to other promotions. As long as somebody's paying the bills, why should they care? It'll become clear when your target audience is hooked and willing to pay full boat.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by oleblu111 » November 8th, 2020, 12:00 pm

USU78 wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:50 am
Too often the beancounters and the donors get in the way of our program building: both hate 2-for-1 deals, coupons, give-aways, and deep admission discounts. I get it, you don't want to devalue your product, but I've seen so many new product, line extention, and product reinvigoration progams over the years. Lots of give-aways in those, in addition to other promotions. As long as somebody's paying the bills, why should they care? It'll become clear when your target audience is hooked and willing to pay full boat.
USU ticket prices are not high. I have seen tickets discounted for decades like the Lees market place $5 tickets, huddle club, two for ones. Hell I have trouble giving away tickets unless it is to a YBU game which should tell you where much of the problem lies, in fact how many of those locals that attend a YBU game are hoping for a cougar victory ? Frankly they have not worked in Cache Valley.



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Re: Building continuity, Can we do it?

Post by slcagg » November 14th, 2020, 8:16 am

oleblu111 wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:26 am
slcagg wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:19 am
oleblu111 wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 11:16 am
Harcher wrote:
November 8th, 2020, 10:44 am
Brownjeans list with some additions and breakdown

We need great players
  • We need great coaches --------------money consistent home grown
    We need great athletics staff -----money - good coaching
    We need great facilities --------------money - sufficient ?
    We need great equipment-----------money -- sufficient ?
We need a great place - Done
We need a great school - Done (but beauty is in the eye of beholder... is it as great as SDSU?)
We need great living conditions - Done?

We need make attending USU games fun
  • We need to make playing USU football fun - see good coaches - consistent strategy
    We need to make game-day fun - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great food - money -
    We need great on-campus support - money - emotional, physical commitment
    We need great community support - money - emotional, physical commitment


1989Swordsman wrote - paraphrase
"Winning begets winning" quit playing money games.

Last decade infused money into our physical facilities to the point of sufficient (agree?)
A small amount of money (relatively speaking) and dedication could get us "fun aggie weekend" ($500k)
Getting a few more wins each year would cost ~$1-2M
Getting the coaching - do we have enough budget for the kind of coach we need (recalling a bit hazy, we are generally bottom of MWC in coaching $$) So add $1M

So we need to find $3M a year to get to next step...

So the ultimate strategy needs to be a step wise model to increase budget. As we've all known who have read this forum for any length of time... The last ~10 years have been and excellent step. What is next?
The next step must be made by fans and alums, athletic ticket revenue has remained the same for a long period of time second lowest in the MWC, over the same period university support had grown by nearly $10 million.

Comparing what Boise does and what and where USU is a mighty stretch, they are in the Largest city in their state with freeway and air service. BSU spends less university money than what USU does by a large amount. USU has the 2 largest universities in areas with far more population, and Utah with such a large LDS population has many aggie alums leaning that way, as well as the rest of the general population.

What needs to happen is Cache Valley needs to become much bigger and get better access. I believe at one time cache valley was the 4th largest county in Utah then the interstate did not run thru Logan and the rest of the state grew.

What would really help is a large influx of non LDS folks into Cache Valley, good luck with that.
I agree on growth. Really would help if there was more industry in the valley. I mean why not move some of the tech hub in Provo (who wants to live there) up to cache valley.
Right on but in order to get that type of stuff up here we need better road access, freeway level and some kind of commercial air service. Despite being much closer to the SLC airport Provo has commercial air service to several cities, For hell bells Riverton Wyoming has commercial air service.
So how does the valley go about doing that? I have no idea.



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