An honest question

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Wanting Wells gone in 2016 and giving GA a chance?

I thought we NEEDED to fire Wells after 2016 and will admit I was wrong, BUT this is different and WE DO NEED to get rid of Gary
7
19%
I thought we NEEDED to fire Wells after 2016, but have slightly more hope for GA now than I did for Wells at the time
5
14%
While frustrated with how 2016 went, I still thought even at the time Wells could turn it around IF he made needed changes which he did. BUT the situation with GA this time is different
12
32%
While frustrated with how 2016 went, I still thought Wells could turn it around IF he made needed changes which he did. And feel that GA CAN make the similar needed changes
13
35%
 
Total votes: 37

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An honest question

Post by GameFAQSAggie » November 6th, 2020, 9:00 am

Alot of us were calling for Wells to fired in 2016. But we turned out to be wrong. And now alot of us want Gary fired. So here's a question. Are any of you that had SOME hope in 2016 we would still be successful under Wells feel more hopeless about Gary? Or is there anyone that still has some hope for Gary 2.0 that was convinced we NEEDED to fire Wells after 2016? I realize Wells did make some changes, like hiring Yost, but alas, the talk wasn't in he needed to do things differently, it was that he needed to be gone.

The question is NOT which year are we worse, the answer is this year easily. It's having faith in Wells after 2016 Vs. having faith in GA now after this year if he stays.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Full » November 6th, 2020, 9:19 am

I’m an eternal optimist. I don’t see a head coaching change happening next season, so I hope there is a way to turn things around before the 2022 season. I’ll be at the Fresno game next weekend and cheering, but I’m just hoping for a competitive game.

I think we see a revised depth chart next week. There has been a lot of young players getting minutes and really not much production from anywhere. They might as well try and figure out where the biggest holes are and start recruiting since we have the fewest commits in the conference at this point in the recruiting cycle.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 6th, 2020, 9:26 am

The reality is there isn't going to be a coaching change this year just as there wasn't ever going to be one in 2016. Gary will get time to try and build this thing.

This offensive coordinator might be a one year wonder in Logan though. And honestly I know fans love him, but I've never been that impressed by Maile.



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Re: An honest question

Post by 3rdGenAggie » November 6th, 2020, 9:41 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:26 am
The reality is there isn't going to be a coaching change this year just as there wasn't ever going to be one in 2016. Gary will get time to try and build this thing.

This offensive coordinator might be a one year wonder in Logan though. And honestly I know fans love him, but I've never been that impressed by Maile.
Maile is an amazing person and an extremely loyal Aggie. It has sadly been proven, however, that he is not a good DC (or Co-DC). Keep him on as a position coach where he can shine.


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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie84025 » November 6th, 2020, 10:14 am

3rdGenAggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:41 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:26 am
The reality is there isn't going to be a coaching change this year just as there wasn't ever going to be one in 2016. Gary will get time to try and build this thing.

This offensive coordinator might be a one year wonder in Logan though. And honestly I know fans love him, but I've never been that impressed by Maile.
Maile is an amazing person and an extremely loyal Aggie. It has sadly been proven, however, that he is not a good DC (or Co-DC). Keep him on as a position coach where he can shine.
I love Maile and Collins for that matter but we need one d-coordinator and neither seem to fit that bill. Both are great recruiters and position coaches, but maybe not cut out to coordinate the whole defense.



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Re: An honest question

Post by brownjeans » November 6th, 2020, 11:25 am

3rdGenAggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:41 am
Maile is an amazing person and an extremely loyal Aggie. It has sadly been proven, however, that he is not a good DC (or Co-DC). Keep him on as a position coach where he can shine.
He did amazingly well in a short stint at HC.

Whatever happens in the future, I hope Collins and Maile have a place here.
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Re: An honest question

Post by JonnyCienPesos » November 6th, 2020, 11:27 am

I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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I'm actually really smart, probably smarter than you are so if you disagree with what I have stated in this post, you are likely wrong (and dumb).

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Re: An honest question

Post by slcagg » November 6th, 2020, 11:30 am

JonnyCienPesos wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 11:27 am
I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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Agreed 💯



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Re: An honest question

Post by kofdog » November 6th, 2020, 11:31 am

People might as well stop asking for him to be gone this year cause it will not happen. Just too many variables and things no coach knows how to plan for with the CoVid crap. He'll get another season.



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Re: An honest question

Post by newhouse9 » November 6th, 2020, 11:43 am

slcagg wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 11:30 am
JonnyCienPesos wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 11:27 am
I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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Agreed 💯
Agreed again. He just needs to do the right thing and not rely too much on the opinions of the donors (small and large dollars.) He has proven that he knows how to hire effective coaches.



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Re: An honest question

Post by 2004AG » November 6th, 2020, 12:02 pm

JonnyCienPesos wrote:I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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For sure, but I think Hartwell shares a little blame for taking so long in the first place.

He could have hired Jay Hill about 10 minutes after Wells left. Had he been quicker, Laub wouldn’t have been able to pressure Hartwell to hire Gary in the first place.


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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 6th, 2020, 12:58 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:41 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:26 am
The reality is there isn't going to be a coaching change this year just as there wasn't ever going to be one in 2016. Gary will get time to try and build this thing.

This offensive coordinator might be a one year wonder in Logan though. And honestly I know fans love him, but I've never been that impressed by Maile.
Maile is an amazing person and an extremely loyal Aggie. It has sadly been proven, however, that he is not a good DC (or Co-DC). Keep him on as a position coach where he can shine.
Maile reminds me of the Spencer Nelson situation when many on here wanted Smith to retain Nelson. Some talking about how it was a strike against Smith that he didn't. Both are popular ex players that are loved by fans, but I don't know if either are great coaches. I wasn't impressed by Maile even before this season (other than he had the team ready to go for the New Mexico Bowl, credit for that). Nelson I don't think is coaching anywhere and believe Smith made the right decision with his staff.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 6th, 2020, 1:00 pm

2004AG wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:02 pm
JonnyCienPesos wrote:I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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For sure, but I think Hartwell shares a little blame for taking so long in the first place.

He could have hired Jay Hill about 10 minutes after Wells left. Had he been quicker, Laub wouldn’t have been able to pressure Hartwell to hire Gary in the first place.


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Which is what should have happened.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie84025 » November 6th, 2020, 1:02 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:58 pm
3rdGenAggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:41 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 9:26 am
The reality is there isn't going to be a coaching change this year just as there wasn't ever going to be one in 2016. Gary will get time to try and build this thing.

This offensive coordinator might be a one year wonder in Logan though. And honestly I know fans love him, but I've never been that impressed by Maile.
Maile is an amazing person and an extremely loyal Aggie. It has sadly been proven, however, that he is not a good DC (or Co-DC). Keep him on as a position coach where he can shine.
Maile reminds me of the Spencer Nelson situation when many on here wanted Smith to retain Nelson. Some talking about how it was a strike against Smith that he didn't. Both are popular ex players that are loved by fans, but I don't know if either are great coaches. I wasn't impressed by Maile even before this season (other than he had the team ready to go for the New Mexico Bowl, credit for that). Nelson I don't think is coaching anywhere and believe Smith made the right decision with his staff.
Good analogy. Maile is a wonderful amabassador, good position coach and excellent recruiter. That being said we probably need just 1d-coordinator and that person is not on our defensive staff.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Madmartigan » November 6th, 2020, 1:06 pm

2004AG wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:02 pm
JonnyCienPesos wrote:I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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For sure, but I think Hartwell shares a little blame for taking so long in the first place.

He could have hired Jay Hill about 10 minutes after Wells left. Had he been quicker, Laub wouldn’t have been able to pressure Hartwell to hire Gary in the first place.


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The man who hired Jay Hill at Weber is the de facto number 2 in the USU AD. This could be good for us going forward.



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Re: An honest question

Post by hickaggie » November 6th, 2020, 1:21 pm

Wells was a mediocre overall head coach an an awful in game coach. But he did hire 2 really good d coordinators at the book ends of his tenure and then Hartwell stepped in and forced him out of the offense and hired Yost. While he lost the team in 2016 he and his staff really gameplanned well at times. I was most impressed with him the first two years Keeton was hurt and he was down to 3rd and 4th string QBs and was able to improvise an offense that complemented Orlando's top 10 Ds.
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Re: An honest question

Post by hickaggie » November 6th, 2020, 1:30 pm

hickaggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 1:21 pm
Wells was a mediocre overall head coach an an awful in game coach. But he did hire 2 really good d coordinators at the book ends of his tenure and then Hartwell stepped in and forced him out of the offense and hired Yost. While he lost the team in 2016 he and his staff really gameplanned well at times. I was most impressed with him the first two years Keeton was hurt and he was down to 3rd and 4th string QBs and was able to improvise an offense that complemented Orlando's top 10 Ds.

Remember how well he schemed Meyers debut against Hawaii? I'm not seeing any real care factor in this team or energy/innovation from the coaches on either side of the ball. Since Andersen is here for another year I hope something lights a fire under somebody.



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Re: An honest question

Post by brownjeans » November 6th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:58 pm
Nelson I don't think is coaching anywhere and believe Smith made the right decision with his staff.
Using that as a metric to Nelson's coaching skills is a mistake. Nelson coached at Utah State because he loves Utah State.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie84025 » November 6th, 2020, 2:16 pm

hickaggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 1:30 pm
hickaggie wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 1:21 pm
Wells was a mediocre overall head coach an an awful in game coach. But he did hire 2 really good d coordinators at the book ends of his tenure and then Hartwell stepped in and forced him out of the offense and hired Yost. While he lost the team in 2016 he and his staff really gameplanned well at times. I was most impressed with him the first two years Keeton was hurt and he was down to 3rd and 4th string QBs and was able to improvise an offense that complemented Orlando's top 10 Ds.

Remember how well he schemed Meyers debut against Hawaii? I'm not seeing any real care factor in this team or energy/innovation from the coaches on either side of the ball. Since Andersen is here for another year I hope something lights a fire under somebody.
People give Coach Wells a lot of Flack but overall he did an excellent job. The way he managed the team with all the quarterback injuries his first two years was phenomenal. He also had the issue of sticking with Myers too long but overall Wells was a pretty good coach at preparing teams.



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Re: An honest question

Post by 2004AG » November 6th, 2020, 2:31 pm

Madmartigan wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 1:06 pm
2004AG wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:02 pm
JonnyCienPesos wrote:I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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For sure, but I think Hartwell shares a little blame for taking so long in the first place.

He could have hired Jay Hill about 10 minutes after Wells left. Had he been quicker, Laub wouldn’t have been able to pressure Hartwell to hire Gary in the first place.


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The man who hired Jay Hill at Weber is the de facto number 2 in the USU AD. This could be good for us going forward.
I think Jay would take the job 5 minutes after it was offered.
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Re: An honest question

Post by GameFAQSAggie » November 6th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Madmartigan wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 1:06 pm
2004AG wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:02 pm
JonnyCienPesos wrote:I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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For sure, but I think Hartwell shares a little blame for taking so long in the first place.

He could have hired Jay Hill about 10 minutes after Wells left. Had he been quicker, Laub wouldn’t have been able to pressure Hartwell to hire Gary in the first place.


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The man who hired Jay Hill at Weber is the de facto number 2 in the USU AD. This could be good for us going forward.
That's the easy part. The hard part is him still being available when we next have an opening. At least Kalani is now secure at BYU so that won't open up for Hill, and Kyle signed an extension through 2027. But Hill likely would take ANY FBS offer, so we have to hope he isn't first taken by another G5 school who fires their coach go, or has an an opening after getting their poached by a P5.

If other schools fire their coach in spite of the covid obstacle, cause of the fact that ALL of ANY given school's competition has had to deal with it too, we can too.



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Re: An honest question

Post by MoTownAg » November 6th, 2020, 4:12 pm

My concerns stem from the following:

1. Gary losing it on his coaches at Oregon State while in a free fall. Later stating that he needed to be more involved in coaching within the program as a whole without his coaches having so much autonomy.
2. Gary stating that he was going to just handle the DC responsibilities himself this time around at USU, but that this one guy that impressed him so much, who was the only one he would even consider for such a task, had agreed to come as the DC (Justin Ena).
3. Current state of the program as has been displayed in first 3 games so far this season. OC can't seem to orchestrate an offense, DC's are making swiss cheese look nonporous.

Other examples are out there too but the connection between all of these concerns boils down to Gary's apparent ineptness in selecting quality coordinators and his apparent lack of oversight from within.



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Re: An honest question

Post by jpswensen » November 6th, 2020, 4:31 pm

If you believe the 4th option, please let me know what those needed changes are.

You don't just re-grow passion, drive, and holding people accountable. It would take a serious come to Jesus moment to GA to regain that fire that made guys take a bullet for him. That is quite clearly lacking this time around.
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Re: An honest question

Post by 2004AG » November 6th, 2020, 4:38 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote:
Madmartigan wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 1:06 pm
2004AG wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:02 pm
JonnyCienPesos wrote:I will say this, if and when there is a coaching change I want Hartwell making the hire.


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For sure, but I think Hartwell shares a little blame for taking so long in the first place.

He could have hired Jay Hill about 10 minutes after Wells left. Had he been quicker, Laub wouldn’t have been able to pressure Hartwell to hire Gary in the first place.


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The man who hired Jay Hill at Weber is the de facto number 2 in the USU AD. This could be good for us going forward.
That's the easy part. The hard part is him still being available when we next have an opening. At least Kalani is now secure at BYU so that won't open up for Hill, and Kyle signed an extension through 2027. But Hill likely would take ANY FBS offer, so we have to hope he isn't first taken by another G5 school who fires their coach go, or has an an opening after getting their poached by a P5.

If other schools fire their coach in spite of the covid obstacle, cause of the fact that ALL of ANY given school's competition has had to deal with it too, we can too.
Jay would NOT take any FBS offer.


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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » November 6th, 2020, 5:07 pm

brownjeans wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 2:15 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:58 pm
Nelson I don't think is coaching anywhere and believe Smith made the right decision with his staff.
Using that as a metric to Nelson's coaching skills is a mistake. Nelson coached at Utah State because he loves Utah State.
Ok, the point stands that he was a very popular assistant because he was a former star player who people didn't want to see go. It is debatable whether he added great value on our coaching staff. I am of the opinion Smith made the right decision by bringing in his own guys.

I have a similar view to Maile and that just isn't based on this season.



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Re: An honest question

Post by brownjeans » November 6th, 2020, 5:41 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 5:07 pm
brownjeans wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 2:15 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:58 pm
Nelson I don't think is coaching anywhere and believe Smith made the right decision with his staff.
Using that as a metric to Nelson's coaching skills is a mistake. Nelson coached at Utah State because he loves Utah State.
Ok, the point stands that he was a very popular assistant because he was a former star player who people didn't want to see go. It is debatable whether he added great value on our coaching staff. I am of the opinion Smith made the right decision by bringing in his own guys.

I have a similar view to Maile and that just isn't based on this season.
I agree that Smith probably did the right thing to hire his own guys. It's obviously working. I don't think people were bothered about Nelson not being retained for very long. Nelson included.

I'm not sure the Nelson/Maile comparison is the best. Most people don't remember Maile as a player. I don't. Was he any good? What I know of Maile is only as a coach. He has been a good recruiter, and the players love and respect him. If he knows how to hire well, I think he could make a good HC after the mold of Edwards, but it's hard to give a quiet guy like that a HC job these days. Edwards would never get hired as a first-time HC these days. No way.

But you certainly have a point about people having an unreasonable desire to have Aggies on our coaching staff. Every time there's an opening there is a contingent who bring up former Aggies. Often it's the same people who want longevity - and they thing that if they hire a former Aggie they'll get longevity. Maybe that's true, but do we really want a bad or mediocre coach for 20 years? Give me the best coach who will build the program and win - even if it's for a short time. Then give me another one just like him. I want the best coach every time.



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Re: An honest question

Post by Aggie84025 » November 6th, 2020, 6:01 pm

brownjeans wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 5:41 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 5:07 pm
brownjeans wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 2:15 pm
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
November 6th, 2020, 12:58 pm
Nelson I don't think is coaching anywhere and believe Smith made the right decision with his staff.
Using that as a metric to Nelson's coaching skills is a mistake. Nelson coached at Utah State because he loves Utah State.
Ok, the point stands that he was a very popular assistant because he was a former star player who people didn't want to see go. It is debatable whether he added great value on our coaching staff. I am of the opinion Smith made the right decision by bringing in his own guys.

I have a similar view to Maile and that just isn't based on this season.
I agree that Smith probably did the right thing to hire his own guys. It's obviously working. I don't think people were bothered about Nelson not being retained for very long. Nelson included.

I'm not sure the Nelson/Maile comparison is the best. Most people don't remember Maile as a player. I don't. Was he any good? What I know of Maile is only as a coach. He has been a good recruiter, and the players love and respect him. If he knows how to hire well, I think he could make a good HC after the mold of Edwards, but it's hard to give a quiet guy like that a HC job these days. Edwards would never get hired as a first-time HC these days. No way.

But you certainly have a point about people having an unreasonable desire to have Aggies on our coaching staff. Every time there's an opening there is a contingent who bring up former Aggies. Often it's the same people who want longevity - and they thing that if they hire a former Aggie they'll get longevity. Maybe that's true, but do we really want a bad or mediocre coach for 20 years? Give me the best coach who will build the program and win - even if it's for a short time. Then give me another one just like him. I want the best coach every time.
You are spot on. If an up and coming coach comes and is really successful and leaves after a few years then great. Rinse and repeat. I realize it is not an exact science and some of them may fail, but we should not solely be focusing on someone who is going to stay for 10-15 years.



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Re: An honest question

Post by GameFAQSAggie » November 6th, 2020, 6:27 pm

There are a few differences between Spencer and Frank.

1. Spencer was only a part of the two losing seasons. Frank, while being arguably part of the problem this year and some other bad years, was also a part of some good years.
2. Frank has served as in interim head coach for one game which is more than Spencer has done.
3. Frank has gotten schools other than Utah State to want him, and one, Vanderbilt to actually do it. I don't think there's a school that would have tried to hire Spencer away.
4. This is one that favors Spencer, in that more casual fans would know the name "Spencer Nelson" than "Frank Maile"



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Re: An honest question

Post by Elkaggie » November 6th, 2020, 9:35 pm

Maile has turned down many better offers to stay. A couple elite ones.



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